Talk:Der Ring des Nibelungen

To do: Mention some of the important leitmotifs. Maybe Leitmotifs in der Ring des Nibelungen, with MIDI files?

this note is not originally mine, I found it on the article page and moved it here.MikeCapone 21:10, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Das/Der

This is something that has always perplexed me to no end — shouldn't the title be Der Ring der Nibelungen, given that Nibelungen is plural, not singular? StradivariusTV

I think Nibelungen is singular, with the -en indicating the genitive. But don't ask me why it doesn't end with an -s David Sneek 12:29, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The Nibelung in the title is indeed singular: in english it is the "The Ring of the Nibelung", and the Nibelung in question is Alberich: the title could usefully be translated as "Alberich's Ring". However there is also a possessive tense in there: the Ring *of the* Nibelung, and in German this results in the use of "des" rather than "der". Dogbertd 3rd May 2005

To elaborate further, der Nibelung is a weak masculine noun, which means that in this instance when the genitive case is used to indicate possession, it takes a suffix of -en instead of -s or -es to show that it is a weak masculine noun. The same is also true of words ending in -ist, such as der Polizist. Ed_Solomon 11:19, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Why German titles?

Why are Wagner's works kept at their German titles? Is there any special reason to abrogate Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English) in this case? Zocky 00:37, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

"only use the native spelling as an article title if it is more commonly used in English than the anglicized form" - the titles of Wagner's operas are more often used in the native form in English than the translated form. This is often the case for works of music (Beethoven's "Hammerklavier" sonata, Puccini's "La Fanciulla del West", etc). Dogbertd 08:47, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

First Studio Recording of the Ring?

Was Solti's really the first studio recording of the Ring? Furtwängler's 1953 Ring in Rome was the first, I believe, although I am not sure whether Moralt's 1948-9 Ring was done in the studio. I think it is rather silly how people find the need to elevate the Solti Ring any higher than it already is...

The Furtwangler 1953 Ring was designed for radio broadcasts and wasn't actually meant for release on LP, unlike the Solti, which was designed from the start to be issued on LP. Hence the Solti *was* the first. I also believe (but may be wrong) that the Furtwangler wasn't released until after the Solti was finished. I think the statements in the article on the Solti reflect the facts (it really was voted "recording of the century", etc), but if you can show otherwise, please amend. --Dogbertd 16:11, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

I see that the article was changed to show that Solti's was the first stereo studio recording. Thank you for making the appropriate changes.

(George I.

Characters lists

A question was raised about whether the individual operas should have character lists, in addition to the big list on this page. Per Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Opera#Include singers at premieres? I've been adding premiere casts, and because of different premiere dates and the fact that different roles of the same character were created by different singers (e.g., while Sophie Stehle created Fricka in Rheingold, Anna Kaufmann created her in Walküre), I think a single list would become cluttered. So I favor individual lists on the four opera pages, but I'm not wed to this if there's disagreement.

I agree. A full list could easily take up an entire page, and would seriously disrupt the flow of any article. This page already says that the synopsi (synopses?) are at the subpages. --Alexs letterbox 08:57, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

kupfer

shouldn't Harry Kupfer be mentioned in the "contemporary productions"-section? he is pretty well known at least here in germany; and his productions are a good example of the "modernize the setting"-strand, which are further remarkable because they were originally developed in the gdr. i don't dare to write anything into an english article, so maybe someone else could do so...

I would include Kupfer only if you think his stagings are in some way significant or important - it's probably not necessary to include every director who has ever staged a Wagner opera in this section unless you think they have particular merit. I suppose at some point we'll have to have a separate page on Ring productions, and I'd agree that Kupfer should be in that.--Dogbertd 07:39, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Recordings

A new recording of the complete cycle done when it was performed in Adelaide a couple of years ago is being gradually released (at least in Australia). I don't have the details, just read a review in the paper. However, that will have to be added to the list of recordings

We will have to wait when it the last opera is released. It is noteworthy as the first cycle released on SACD, but I have not been able to obtain a copy (The operas are $120 each!). --Alexs letterbox 07:47, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Adaptations/Parody

A famous parody of the Ring Cycle is "Der Ring Gott Farblonjet" (Yiddish ~ loosely "The ring Gott misplaced"), by Charles Ludlam composed for the Ridiculous Theatrical Company (off-Broadway). Der Ring Gott Farblonjet is in fact listed by Wikipedia under CL's works. See NY Theater Review [1] The RTC is now defunct, but there was a revival, see [2] It is certainly very funny and deserves a Wikipedia mention. -- 65.242.144.24 14:17, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

In my opinion, the Ring Cycle has been parodied so many times (and is so open to parody), that a list of all parodies (including the one you mention) would be unnecessary and add nothing to the article, which is long enough as it is. Also, Der Ring Gott Farblonjet only receives 76 google hits, raising the issue of notability.