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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Mav (talk | contribs) at 00:20, 18 February 2003. The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

What the heck? That table looks horrid. Why in the world do we need a table here? I also protest the removal of the direct links to NPOV our naming conventions etc. --mav 22:50 Feb 15, 2003 (UTC)

  1. It's useful to separate the links from the "Welcome, newcomers" text. They have a different target audience.
  2. Aligning the text in a table looks better.

The colors etc. can be messed with, but I think the table makes sense. As for the other links, we should try to avoid link overkill, like we did with the Main Page intro. The "Welcome, newcomers" text is intended as a quick reference to the most important links for newcomers. The policy page has links to everything newcomers should know about, if NPOV is not reasonably prominent there, that should be changed, but sticking a fat link on NPOV on every page will not make our users any more likely to adhere to it. --Eloquence 22:56 Feb 15, 2003 (UTC)

I agree with Maveric, I don't like how that table jumps out at me every time. Not to mention once again giving the September 11 terrorist attack way more prominence than I believe it needs in a general-purpose encyclopedia (Recent Changes is where I live).
I just thought of an idea; why not give every registered user their own copy of special pages such as this one, and allow them to edit it? That would give way more customizability than skins allow, I could put anything into the header of my own Recent Changes page. Bryan

I think the jumping out is due to the colors, not the table. And I do think we need to either give the Sep.11-Wikipedia some more exposure, or abandon it. There are 12 pages there, so it wouldn't be a big loss. As for the customization, while such tools are certainly nice, I'm not sure the RecentChanges page is the right place for such customizations. Perhaps a customizable sidebar makes more sense. --Eloquence 23:04 Feb 15, 2003 (UTC)

Re sep11-wiki; months ago the Cunctator said he was going to provide a list of pages to move over there, and then never did. Nobody's ever really touched it since. If given such a list, I'll be happy to move the pages... --Brion 23:15 Feb 15, 2003 (UTC)
I'll get started on that. Bryan
Okay, here's a list: Talk:September 11, 2001 Terrorist Attack/Memorial wiki pages Bryan

It's ugly - esp at high resolutions. I'll get back to that issue later. But what about adding new text and a link to the edit page boilerplate. replace the second, third and fourth sentences with: "By saving this page you indicate you agree to the terms and conditions of this website. DO NOT SUBMIT COPYRIGHTED WORK WITHOUT PERMISSION!" --mav

Our policies are not a set of terms and conditions. People like Cunctator are eager to point out that these are "rules to consider", and there would certainly be much gnashing of teeth if we presented them as conditions for participation. But a policy link could certainly be put in there, and NPOV *is* one of our "real rules". --Eloquence 23:08 Feb 15, 2003 (UTC)
Actually, the fact that the content of this website is under the GFDL is very important IMO and new users definitely need to be made to understand that putting stuff here places it under those terms (and that if they don't have the legal right to place it under those terms, they can't put it here). Bryan
Misunderstanding - no objections from my part to the copyright warning (which already exists), just to linking to Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines as "Terms and conditions". --Eloquence 23:17 Feb 15, 2003 (UTC)

Notice the link to Wikipedia:Policy and not Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines. I've said many times that we should have one page that sets out our real policies and terms of use. These policies and terms do exist but they are lost in a buzz of "rules to consider" which need to be excised from Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines and placed on their own page. --mav

(Discussion moved to Wikipedia talk:Policies and guidelines) - Enchanter

I don't mind the table, although it does jump around a bit when the page is loading due to a browser glitch (Maybe serves me right for using IE5.0).

I would like to see a fairly minimalist page here - more or less just the stuff in the table. For example:

  • It is regular users who are addicted to recent changes - newcomers often take a while to find it. So this isn't a particularly good place for a link to Welcome, newcomers.. The same goes for the link to the FAQ - this isn't the most logical place for it to be.
  • There is a clear copyright warning when you edit a page, the link to copyrights here doesn't really add anything to that.

Enchanter


I think we should have mention of NPOV & copyrights on this page. They are our key policies. -- Tarquin 10:32 Feb 16, 2003 (UTC)

I agree. Mentioned. --mav

IMHO this is now looking too cluttered, with lots of links. With the lines in the table getting longer, they are more likely to cause line breaks depending on browser settings (as they are for me - and it looks horrible!). I would prefer only the most important links, and ditch:

  • Sep 11 Wiki - gives it more prominence than it needs here.
  • Mailing lists, IRC chat - not hard to find elsewhere for people who want to. They are not links that people will come back to again and again, so no need to give prominence here.
  • Naming conventions - now that moving pages is easy, it's not much of a problem if someone gives an article an inappropriate name. Naming conventions is not a key policy that everyone needs to know about in the same way as NPOV or copyrights - only people who care about these things really need to read it.
Yes, I agree. Along the same lines:
I don't like all these links on the Recent Changes page. In my favorite font size 26 lines fit in my IE window, but 25 are used up by headers and links, so without scrolling I see almost nothing of what the page is supposed to be about, Recent Changes. If they have to be there, maybe they can be put in a smaller font than the Recent Changes themselves, and/or more compactly with less white space, or in a box like the Special pages box, or after the Recent Changes instead of before them? - Patrick 00:08 Feb 18, 2003 (UTC)

If all that is needed is to ruduce the width then I just did that. I for one find it very useful to have all the links on RC so long as they don't cause nasty things like line-breaks at lower resolutions. --mav

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