Talk:Vibrato

Someone removed:

It is sometimes known as tremolo, but that word is less frequently used because it can also mean a rapid repetition of one note, or between several different notes.

I've put it back - "tremolo" is used very frequently in non-classical contexts to refer to vibrato (think "tremolo guitar effect", "tremolo organ") and it's important to mention this, I think. --Camembert

Actually, since writing that last night, I've realised that in fact when "tremolo" is used in this way, it often isn't referring to a rapid change in pitch, but rather a rapid change in intensity, which isn't vibrato at all. Still, I'm convinced the word "tremolo" is used to mean "vibrato" sometimes - when I look in an oldish (1946) music dictionary I have, I see it says that it was once used as a synonym for vibrato. So maybe the sentence needs rewriting, but it does need to be in. --Camembert

The tremolo bar on an electric guitar does to pitch variation, so it should really be a vibrato bar. The use of the tremolo bar, is often called tremolo. -- GWO

After 5 minutes of Google research, I'm convinced that the terms tremolo and vibrato are often used interchangeably. As a player of the electric bass guitar, I must report that a knob marked "vibrato" on an amplifier is almost certainly going to change the VOLUME of the output, rather than its pitch.

Much as I would love to be able to have a decisive definition -- such as pitch (or frequency) modulation is vibrato and amplitude modulation is tremolo -- I fear we must bow to general usage. I suggest therefore that we emphasize the two kinds of modulations, and duck out of any controversy over what FM or AM should be called.

We cannot create a standard where none exists. Let's just describe the two concepts, and repont the terms that people use when referring to those concepts. Anyone who comes across confusion when actually using these concepts when describing a performance can always fall back on a quick definition, like, "it keeps the pitch the same but alternates the volume rapidly" when asked what a certain knob does. Or, "I want you to bend the note up and down in pitch a little bit, as fast as you can."

My 2 cents. --Ed Poor 12:40 Sep 27, 2002 (UTC)

Also, I just noticed that both vibrato and tremolo refer to pitch modulation. Where is the Wikipedia article describing the effect which "keeps the pitch the same but alternates the volume rapidly"? --Ed Poor 12:46 Sep 27, 2002 (UTC)

That is probably due to "volume-altering" being a recent concept -- I don't think any "classical" instruments can do it. Hmm.. *thinks*. Pipe organs should be able to. what do organists call it? -- Tarquin

My big dictionary of music says the ussie is very confused. it says the terms V and T are used in reverse meaning in conection with the voice & strigned instruments . the plot thickens :( -- Tarquin

I agree about the ussie being confused! ;-) I'd hate to have to give up spell-checking, NPOV refereeing and copy-editing to *shudder* actually contribute to an article!! But it looks like I may have to write this one myself... --Ed Poor

Well my formal music training is classical (though my vocation is modern electronic music), and I've never heard vibrato refer to anything other than a rapid variation in pitch. Tremolo on the other hand, seems to be a bit of a catch-all word, sometimes meaning vibrato (especially in a derogatary way when talking about a singer doing it too much), sometimes rapidly repeating one note (especially on a mandolin or piano, with string instruments often having the word tremolando used instead), and sometimes rapidly changing volume (as in certain organs and groovy psychadelic guitar effects).

I don't know, but my feeling is that the vibrato article isn't too bad as it stands (of course I would say that as I wrote it), but if people know of other common uses of the word, of course they should be included. I have to say though, that in a classical context at least, vibrato is completely unambiguous, or else composers like Bartok wouldn't be able to write instructions like senza vibrato in their scores.

Tremolo is more troublesome than vibrato, I admit, but to my eyes, the article over there right now is about it being a fluctuation in intensity, not a fluctuation in pitch, which seems basically right. I know it says that tremolo sometimes happens between two or more notes, but that's really secondary to the fact that these notes are switching on and off very rapidly, if you see what I mean - I guess this needs to be made clearer. It also needs expanding to include fluctuations smaller than stopping and starting.

Enough of this, I'm supposed to be having a break from the wikipedia... :) --Camembert

Could some of you well informed folks take a look at the wah-wah article? Ortolan88

I happened to hear on Radio 3 this morning that vibrato didn't become common in orchestral performance till the 1930s: it was used for expression occasionally in solos largely. Schoenberg apparently described it as the "unpleasant sound of a billy goat". Anyne have any more on this? -- Tarquin 08:56 Mar 1, 2003 (UTC)

Funny you should mention that - in today's Grauniad there's a piece by the conductor Roger Norrington on this very thing. He goes into some detail - for instance, he says that the Berlin Philharmonic didn't record with "serious vibrato" until 1935, and the Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra not until 1940. I'll see if I can stick some of this in the article later today (if nobody else gets there before me), and try to put it into a wider context. Interesting subject. --Camembert

Cool! I just jotted down the above as I heard it; they said the same dates. -- Tarquin