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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by LatinoMuslim (talk | contribs) at 12:04, 4 September 2006 (→Final Vote). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.


Islamic Wikiproject Award

The original image

File:IslamicBarnstar.png {{IslamicBarnstar}}

The Islamic Barnstar Award was created to recognize any editor who has made exceptional contributions to Islam-related articles. This award is part of the Islam WikiProject and its related guilds. Introduced and designed by JuanMuslim.

Note There was a previous discussion about this here. --evrik 15:48, 7 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

(Talk) 09:51, 23 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

More discussion

This message was added after archival: Sorry, I messed that one up. Image1 was approved and Image2 was voted off. The proper changes have been made by JuanMuslim.--Ed 20:53, 2 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

More comments on the votes

People who voted who supported the mosque image

People who voted who supported the award concept (but not the image)

Sock puppet voters

People who didn't like the mosque image

--There wasn't really consensus. --evrik 17:20, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Dude, what's your problem!!! You're the only one who objected to this in the first place. Besides, this barnstar has been out for a week, and already awarded to numerous users. Changing the image will change all of the given awards, unless everyone used (subst), which is going to cause major problems. And there was consensus, because no one, except for you, and South Philly (Gray Porpoise still supported the idea) opposed the image. --Ed 17:52, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Yo, Ed, take a deep breath - this isn't personal. As you said, in your last sentence - I'm not the only one who objected. If you toss out the sockpuppet voter, and those people who were supportive of the award, but not the design, there was no consensus.
The award was posted on August 2, on August 3, I moved it to the PUA page. You happened to make the move while I was travelling, otherwise I would have commnetd on 8/2. I support the award, but not the image. In July, I recommended it get approved as a PUA because of the lack of support and the lack of consensus. If you want to see an idea with real support, look at the TV. award. The Islamic Award was given out before it was even posted to this page. People can do that if they want to. I think if we are going to list it here, we should hold out for a better image. --evrik 18:52, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Excuse me, but I moved my name. It had been put on the wrong list, as I supported the star and crescent image, not the mosque. --Gray Porpoise 23:16, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Comments on the votes

The original Islamic Barnstar was introduced and designed by Irishpunktom. That version was clearly rejected. The new version {{IslamicBarnstar}} was introduced and designed by me. Acceptance for the idea - the Islamic Barnstar Award - as well as the current design has been accepted. --JuanMuslim 1m 19:44, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

People who voted who supported the mosque image

People who didn't like the mosque image

Sock puppet voters

Another Version (mosaic image)

Mosaic images

  • my rough attempt
    my rough attempt
  • A tile pattern
    A tile pattern
  • Cleaned up version of first image
    Cleaned up version of first image
I think a green star with an Islamic mosaic patter would be better, ala Image:Kaftar.jpg In any case, I think that the star should be, at least, changed to green. --evrik 20:05, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • The problem with the star and crescent as an Islamic symbol is that its highly controversial among Muslims although it may not seem to be to non-Muslims. That's why a mosque is used for the Islam template. I have no idea what shade of green you would like the star to be. Is there an image with that particular green you could direct me to? Also, your idea of the mosaic is too different from my image that has been already awarded for Islamic-related articles. --JuanMuslim 1m 20:16, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • That last comment is easily fixed. If we get an award that we can agree upon here, then we simply upload the new one under the old name. Maybe I should have been more explicit about this before, but I was hoping that someone would step forward and design a new star.--evrik 20:43, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Juan commented above that he didn't like my design. I'm okay with that. I made it to illustrate something I thought was more in line with the rest of the awards. Someone else want to take a crack at it? --evrik 16:55, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Okay, you bring up a good point about the award that isn't star-like. That was a mistake I made. Mea culpa. I made a fix and have explained that fix here. In its current state, it's fine as a PUA. I'd like to contrast this award with the amount of time and input that went into the TV award. This award has had a fraction of the input or support. I don't think you have to like my suggestion, but is there any other design you're happy with? --evrik 22:09, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • I am happy with the design I originally submitted. If you look at the archives, most awards have received little thought before they were accepted. My image for award, on the other hand, has received much support as shown in a number of ways. Most of the discussion on this page has been you. You're the only one holding up acceptance of the image. --JuanMuslim 1m 04:07, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • That's because I think the star and mosque should be better integrated, or a new image should be developed. --evrik 21:50, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't like the mosque. It should be more star-like. --South Philly 01:05, 12 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't think the mosque is the best choice, either. I commend evrik for creating the mosaic pattern, and that's my main choice if the star-and-crescent is too controversial. --Gray Porpoise 13:28, 14 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I have added a new version of tiling image, it is somewhat cleaned up, but it could use more cleanup. --WillMak050389 19:56, 16 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • I could live with that. Feel free to play with the tile color scheme. --evrik 20:26, 16 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • I like both of them.Rlevse 10:28, 18 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • What would be more subtle and interesting would be to use just the mosaic background - and instead of sticking a honking great green barnstar on the top, to subtly change the little five pointed stars in the mosaic itself into barnstars...just using bumpmapping or something. SteveBaker 15:34, 18 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

More Mosaic images

  • my rough attempt
    my rough attempt

Another rough cut. --evrik 21:42, 18 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Another Version (original image)

Another version 1

Another version 2

  • I like JuanMuslim's most recent effort very much, and would like to see that used. If consensus is for this image, however, I would be happy with this one as well. BYT 09:52, 22 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • The existing image is fine. it's clean and consistent with the wikipedia aesthetic. to change it to any of the proposed ones would make it graphically inconsistent. i dont like any of them, to be honest. the current one i think is best designed. and as for a religion star, fine, but the islamic one serves a purpose. its not narrow. it relates to a fifth of the worlds population. sorry if this comment is in the wrong place. Yung Wei 03:01, 22 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Please vote in the first section above if you support or don't support the current version of the image. Also, be sure to state that you support or don't support the current image, because apparently Evrik thinks that only stating 'support' means you support the idea of an Islamic Barnstar Award. --JuanMuslim 1m 16:57, 22 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • I believe there must be a mosque in the award, the last style with a mosque and a green star looks ideal for the Islamic Barnstar IMO. I really do not understand how can there be THIS much discussion on such a trivial matter as this. Systemic bias, unbelievably narrow-minded users and fanatics made me leave all the stuff I wanted to do with Islam-related stuff on Wikipedia. Mosque, no mosque what does it matter? The color green or abstract figures or a crescent these will NEVER be a symbol of Islam as a cross is for Christianity. I believe this barnstar thing should end with this last type JuanMuslim proposed. --Suleyman Habeeb 17:01, 22 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      • But I don't like the version I 'proposed' with the ugly green star, but you know me. I'm always up for compromising somewhat. I support the original version I created as the best. --JuanMuslim 1m 17:06, 22 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't think the mosque image is in line with the rest of the awards. It's almost like saying a chapel is the sign for Christianity. I think this is a poor image to represent all of Islam. --evrik 18:41, 22 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • I like it. The mosque image is used in the infobox for the Islam series of articles, so it's a recognisable Islam-Wikipedia symbol, and ultimately, the Islam Wikiproject barnstar is awarded to people who contribute to Islam articles. From what I see above, the mosque and green star seems to be liked by those who are interested in Islam articles. I'm not a Muslim, nor do I edit Islam articles with any regularity, but I'm just basing my opinion on how "pretty" I think the image is and whether it is liked by Muslims or those who are interested in editing Islam articles. --Deathphoenix ʕ 18:48, 22 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Another version 3

I've just uploaded another version of the original image. This version has a green star and the star is bigger as some of you requested. Also, the dimensions of the star are not changed at all. However, with this version, I am able to maintain the pretty-looking shadow on the star that is found on the original version. And, even so, I still support the original image I created. --JuanMuslim 1m 19:17, 22 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Other Versions

  • IBS.PNG
    IBS.PNG
  • IBAllah.PNG
    IBAllah.PNG

Other versions of the image for the award may be added and debated here. I am moving other versions of the barnstar image to this section so that people can discuss these versions without confusing debate on other versions.--JuanMuslim 1m 18:38, 22 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

IBS.PNG

Note There was a previous discussion about this image here. --JuanMuslim 1m 18:45, 22 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

IBAllah.PNG

This version of the image was suggested recently by Smmurphy in another section. --JuanMuslim 1m 18:45, 22 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Religion Barnstar?

It's just struck me that perhaps a barnstar just for Islam is a bit narrow. How about a barnstar which encompasses all religions and faith systems. It will also prevent the glut of "How come Islam gets a barnstar and such-and-suchism doesn't?" copycat barnstars on creation, and sidesteps the mosque/crescent issue. smurrayinchester(User), (Talk) 09:04, 19 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • ehhh, religion is already covered under general barnstars. I think the more specific ones should be generated as there is interest. --evrik 12:59, 19 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Well, there's already a consensus for the Islamic Barnstar Award. Some editors disagree about the image to use. --JuanMuslim 1m 03:38, 21 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      • The Islamic Barnstar is exceptionally well designed and visually pleasing. I'd hate to see it changed... If anyone is concerned about the lack of Christian, Judaic, Hindu, etc. barnstars then an incentive exists for someone to create one! There are clearly people here with a great deal of graphic design talent. The wa to solve this problem is to add more - not dilute the existing one. --AStanhope 02:36, 22 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • There is already one used for Christianity-rleated articles. --evrik 18:34, 22 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Per JuanMuslim above --- Already consensus for an Islamic Barnstar, don't think that's even at issue. BYT 09:55, 22 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Jewish Wikiproject Award

Final Vote

  • Image 1
    Image 1
  • Image 2
    Image 2
  • Image 3
    Image 3
  • Image 4
    Image 4
  • Image 5
    Image 5
  • Image 6
    Image 6
  • Image 7
    Image 7
  • Image 8
    Image 8
  • Image 9
    Image 9
  • Image 10
    Image 10
  • Image 11
    Image 11
  • Image 12
    Image 12
  • Image 13
    Image 13
  • Image 14
    Image 14
  • Image 15
    Image 15
  • Image 16
    Image 16
  • Image 17
    Image 17
  • Image 18
    Image 18

Ok, this is getting out of hand. I'll put all of the images here, then we'll vote on them. Picture with the most votes gets to go up as the award. I know some of the pics are just drafts, but I'll put them up anyway. --Edtalk c E 00:15, 25 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Image 11 is my favorite, but is there a reason for the black background? should it be transparacied? Love the color contrast. --WillMak050389 02:41, 25 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment this is not supposed to be about voting, but about consensus. --evrik 03:02, 25 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • And, what exactly is your definition of consensus? --JuanMuslim 1m 03:30, 25 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Consensus can be reached by majority vote. If one guy disagrees, but all of the other 10 people agree on an award, are we going to compromise to that 1 guy's issues?--Edtalk c E 13:24, 26 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      • Sorry, Ed, simple voting does not mean consensus. A bad image is still a bad image, no matter how much the proposer wants it. Juan Muslim has been so fixed on his single idea he never really thought of anything else, and that's been the bulk of the problem. --evrik 23:01, 26 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
        • The bulk of the problem has been your refusal to acknowledge that most people support the current Islamic Barnstar Award. --JuanMuslim 1m 16:18, 27 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
          • Wikipedia is not an experiment in democracy. The idea behind "working towards consensus" (as opposed to straight voting) is that if 9 people agree and one does not, you ask the dissenter why he/she dislikes the choice so much and you see if there is any small change you can make that will make everyone happy. You can't always achieve 100% consensus - but you can at least try. If having tried and failed you still have a large majority in favor - you'd hope that the person who is outvoted 9:1 would be gracious enough to give up and allow a consensus to be formed. But if you have tried your best and you just can't get everyong together - then "be bold" and just get on with it. But in the majority of cases, Wikipedians try not to allow the majority to simply out-vote the minority and to trample them underfoot (especially if the margin is a slim one). So "work towards consensus" - but if it's just not possible then go with the flow. SteveBaker 01:26, 28 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
            • Yes, that is true. Current discussion leads us to acknowledge that the current image has consensus as of now. Working towards consensus does not imply that the best of whatever is yet to be discovered. --JuanMuslim 1m 02:23, 28 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
              • Right - waiting for some magical source of wonderous images that would satisfy everyone is not a viable approach. How long you wait for someone to come up with a better image is a tricky decision in an environment where we don't know who has the skills, who is actively working on painting images, etc. Frankly, that too is a part of reaching consensus - when have we waited long enough? That somewhat depends on how good your present solutions are - if we are choosing between great images and the decision is "Which of these great images is the best?" then you don't have to wait all that long. If all you have is a set of mediocre images and you are trying to choose the least nasty of them - then you should wait longer in the hope that something better comes along. The annoying thing is what just happened. Lots of people vote - then someone adds more images (which look great by the way!) - and we have to start voting all over again. Cutting off that debate when more and more good images pour in gets tricky - and the more images there are the more disagreement there can be about which is the best. SteveBaker 13:25, 28 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
                • No award is selected without the consensus of the most active Wikipedians on the Barnstar Proposals page. Recently, this list has been evrik, Gray Porpoise, WillMak050389, South Philly, and Leroyencyclopediabrown. Most people assume that their original vote is sufficient then move on to other activities.--JuanMuslim 1m 17:25, 29 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - If this is going to be a Wikiproject award, I don't see a need for its discussion here --> unless someone has decided to make the process of a wikiproject award very bureaucratic ;) --Gurubrahma 06:58, 25 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment There ought to be a star image with a mosaic background and the colouring/shade of Image 8. --Gray Porpoise 18:56, 25 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Support Image 10. I like Gray Porpoises suggestion. --evrik 23:01, 26 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Image 10 (mostly because it seems like it's time to resolve this now). I would also be quite happy with Image 8. Very grateful to JuanMuslim for all the work and attention on this. BYT 23:01, 27 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Automotive Wikiproject Award

Proposed Automotive Wikiproject Award - created by User:SteveBaker.

This is a concept for a barnstar an award for exemplary work in Automotive-related articles. Note that there was general support for a Railroad star, and the Automotive section of Wiki is comparable in size, support and need for recognition. SteveBaker 06:01, 13 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support. The Auto project has grown quite large and considering the extensive scope of the project a custom barnstar is more than appropriate. Besdies, I like this particular proposal: It's easily recognizable as a barnstar, yet clearly hints at the subject matter of the project. Regards, Signaturebrendel 06:31, 13 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
As a point of procedure: Does this proposal page cover approve the proposal to have a barnstar - or does it specifically approve the design of the graphic for the award? I assumed the former - but maybe it's also the latter. SteveBaker 14:55, 13 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • The consensus is that each wikiproject can create its own award, and that anyone can place an award on the PUA page. However, to have an award listed on the wikiproject page, or to create a barnstar, it has to be vetted here first and that consensus or greta support must be achieved. --evrik 21:38, 17 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Update - The consensus both here and on the Automobiles project appears to be that we 100% agree that we need an automotive barnstar - and that almost everyone likes the idea of a star overlaid on a custom wheel - but that not everyone likes this particular custom wheel. Whilst I think we have the votes to justify making the image above be the automotive barnstar, it would be better to try some more designs based around the car wheel motif. I'll be working on that as time permits. SteveBaker 15:26, 18 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Great to hear that! Thanks a lot Steve! I can't wait to see more of your creations! Bravada, talk - 15:30, 18 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I've posted some GIMPped (think 'photoshopped') versions of your Simca 1000 suggestion over on Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Automobiles#More_Barnstar_proposals - please continue the discussion over there. SteveBaker 11:34, 19 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]




The Computing Star

The Computing Star is awarded to those who make outstanding contributions to computing/internet related articles. Also used for WikiProject Computing and all descendant WikiProjects. Introduced by Michaelas10 and designed by Lcarsdata. -- Michaelas10 18:12, 17 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

New image proposed - This one is customized by me, looks pretty simple and focuses on the barnstar. -- Michaelas10 20:51, 18 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Reject The new image has all the same problems as the old one - you have a fairly photographic image of a barnstar stuck in front of a line drawing of a computer - and the two clash horribly. You need to keep the same style throughout the image or else it looks like Mary Poppins (film) in which live action was just crudely pasted over cartoon action. Either use a more photographic computer - or a more line-drawn barnstar. But I still think you should come up with something less obvious. SteveBaker 22:42, 18 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

...time passes...

  • How about this one? The text is the first dozen lines of the MediaWiki source code - the award is for bringing Wikipedia software into sharp focus...or something kitchey like that. SteveBaker 23:47, 18 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • I know it's not my WikiProject and I haven't got anything to do with the award, but I was just wondering how would the image look like w/o the "sharp focus". I believe it could look like the barnstar reflecting in the old-school computer monitor. Bravada, talk - 00:20, 19 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      • Well, so much for the deep symbolism that was such an integral part of the entire artistic gestalt.
      • (But, actually - yes - it's much nicer than my original idea - thanks for the insight)  :-) SteveBaker 02:05, 19 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • I am glad to hear you think so :D More or less a propos, I am haunted by the "barnstar wheelcovers": another manufacturer who used a moderately barnstarish design is Simca. Check out the Simca 1300 or this Simca 1000 GL (there is some probability we might finally obtain CC BY 2.5 for the latter image). Bravada, talk - 02:24, 19 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I have created this one which uses an idea from above. Lcarsdata (Talk) 17:49, 19 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I have made another and moved all images to top gallery. Lcarsdata (Talk) 18:00, 19 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I've uploaded my last version, this one is not a barnstar - it's an award, the Golden laptop award. I am aware that the most of other WikiProject awards are somehow based of barnstars, but there is no rule that indicates it. Michaelas10 19:16, 19 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comment cleaned up User:Lcarsdata's second version a bit. --WillMak050389 02:44, 21 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Support Image 3b--Edtalk c E 19:39, 21 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
3b is too blurred. I think 3a will be better. Michaelas10 20:18, 21 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support 3b 22:43, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
    • The original concept behind 3a was of 'bringing Computing & Wikipedia into sharp focus' - so the star shows sharp text in classic 'green screen' style where the award is - and blurry text where it isn't. For good measure, the text I chose is the first few lines of the MediaWiki sourcecode (index.php in the latest distro). OK - so it's heavy on the symbolism - but IMHO, it doesn't look too shabby. However, as was subsequently pointed out, (3a) almost looks like the star is reflected in an old-style green-screen monitor - and by making all of the text equally blurry (which is what 3b is), that's the effect you get. So, 3b is simply a barnstar reflected in a monitor that's showing the beginning of the Wiki source code. The text is intentionally out of focus now because we are focussing our attentions on a reflection - which makes the 'foreground' be out of focus - it adds a touch of realism. I actually prefer 3b - it's subtle. If you make all of the text sharp - it just looks cheesey and obvious - and I'm not interested in going that way.
    • If you really wanted to go the circuit board route, I think you'd need to do with some 3D modelling and make the star be somewhat in perspective with the components on it sticking up out of it. The star would need bevelled edges or something so it looks 'finished' - and you'd want to take care that none of the components were cut in half by the edges of the star. As it is now, it just looks like someone cut out a photo with scissors. SteveBaker 02:15, 22 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support 3b. Herostratus 19:12, 22 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, in this order from greatest to least:
  1. 5
  2. 3b
  3. 4b
  4. 3a
  5. 4a
  6. 1
  7. 2
  8. 6

--Gray Porpoise 20:49, 22 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I forgot I had already voted. Still, this is the order of my support. --Gray Porpoise 18:59, 25 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Your first vote was before all of the images we currently are considering were included - and also we were initially asking the question "Should there be a computing barnstar?". From where I'm sitting it looks like we unanimously agree that we want a barnstar - and (if you sort out the order of arrival of votes and images), I think we have a definite preference for 3b. Are we done? Do we have some sort of consensus? If so, I'll do whatever is necessary to move it onto the barnstar page. SteveBaker 01:46, 28 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
No consensus yet, 2 people voted for #5 and 4 voted for #3b. Michaelas10 21:30, 28 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support #5, although I already proposed 2 images, I believe it would fit perfectly in the WikiProject awards page. #3b fits better intro a programming award instead of award for general computing. Michaelas10 21:30, 28 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    But you could equally argue that #5 is all about hardware and that there needs to be a more general design to encompass the software parts of the art. I don't think you can come up with a single image that says it all - so no matter what you pick you'll have a bias one way or the other. #5 just seems so crudely done - there are white speckles all around the edges of the star and the lighting on the laptop is poor and doesn't match the star. SteveBaker 23:08, 28 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
5 is showing a computer, which means all hardware, software and anything releating to computing. Also, the issues that you provided can be easily fixed with a single edit. Michaelas10 23:20, 28 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Welcoming Committee Award proposal

  • The design of the proposed Welcoming Commitee Barnstar
    The design of the proposed Welcoming Commitee Barnstar
  • A second possible design by Jam01
    A second possible design by Jam01
  • Welcomer's Star
    Welcomer's Star
  • Cleaned-up version of Jam01's design
    Cleaned-up version of Jam01's design

I propose a welcoming commitee barnstar award. It should be awarded to Welcoming Commitee members who tirelessly welcome new users with lots of WikiLove. There are lots of Welcoming Commitee members who deserve an award like this. I encourage people to create a new design for it. Created and designed by Jam01 06:20, 22 August 2006 (UTC). Image:WCBs2.PNG - A second possible design by Jam01[reply]

Image:Welcomer's Barnstar.png - Welcomer's Barnstar

Environment barnstar proposal

I propose a barnstar for continuting importnat contributions to environmental subjects. My skills of design are not good enough to produce the actual design. Is anyone up for the challenge? --Alex 11:28, 22 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Bootcamp Barnstar

Hi, I'd like to propose:

The Bootcamp Barnstar


Lots of editors work hours straight on the bootcamp channel, helping users, dealing with angry users, sorting out {{unblock}}'s, but the majority work on {{helpme}}'s. I have been edit conflicted many times, (which is good! :) ), by other, equally-eager Bootcamp-er's: and I think it's now time they were honoured with a barnstar :) --Deon555talkReview 01:58, 27 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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