Talk:2003 invasion of Iraq/Archive 2

Talk:2003 invasion of Iraq/archive1
Talk:2003 invasion of Iraq/archive2

Summary of issues under discussion

Sources

This entry is impossible to present without coming from some perspective; what we can do is, when we make the editorial decision to include content, to mention the source of that content.

External links to news items should preferably be placed at the bottom of the page, with the title of the news item, source, and date, and a summary of relevant content if not apparent from the title.

Naming

The two reasonable titles for this entry are 2003 invasion of Iraq and U.S. invasion of Iraq (add alternatives if you strongly believe either is deficient). See Talk:2001 U.S. Attack on Afghanistan for a (possibly) comparable discussion.

The first avoids (potentially contentious) questions of the nature of the invasion and is permanently unambiguous (as long as the military campaign ends within 2003).

The second follows the standard set by U.S. invasion of Afghanistan, makes a (potentially contentious) definitive statement about the nature of the invasion, and is unambiguous (as long as the U.S. doesn't invade Iraq in the future).

Nature of Coalition/Invasion

Is the phrase "U.S. invasion of Iraq" misleading or not? This question depends on the nature of the coalition and reasons for the invasion. The nature of the coalition is discussed at coalition of the willing.

Nature of Coalition/Invasion

This entry should be named "U.S. invasion of Iraq". See the Talk:2001 U.S. Attack on Afghanistan. This is an equivalently U.S.-dominated campaign, if not more so. --The Cunctator

There are around 20 countries actively involved in the war. -- Zoe

British forces in particular have been doing a hell of a lot in the war, and sustaining a lot of casualties.. it seems silly to leave them out just because you want to make it look like the U.S. is "going it alone." There is a coalition whether you like it or not.

I've read some media reports from some of the other coalition countries that are sending troops or ships that have been irritated that the U.S. media is frequently downplaying their role.

Sure, there are various countries involved in the war, but there were in Afghanistan as well. The thing is, most of the initiative and actions are being handled by the Americans, whereas Eritrea is mainly in this for moral support (or something like that). Perhaps someone can point to some source explaining where the other coalition members have been filling in more than just supportive roles?

Poland has announced they have forces on the ground in Iraq. Denmark has a submarine off the coast. Czech Republic, Bulgaria and Romania have WMD-sniffing equipment in Kuwait. Australia and the UK have forces involved in battle and have had casualties.

Yup, and I've heard several countries that were sending in medical personel as well.. not combat forces, but definitely in danger. I think Polish commandos are also searching ships off the coast of Iraq.. finding mines and weapons and even taking some prisoners.

After extensive research, I have put together a list of nations that support and oppose the invasion: Coalition of the willing .Kingturtle 06:02 Mar 27, 2003 (UTC)

Do those who support this name think U.S. invasion of Afghanistan should be moved? See coalition of the willing to give a good measure of the nature of the alliance. By any measure this is an invasion planned, led, and dominated by the United States in political, military, and economic terms. --The Cunctator

Many of these countries are supplying medical personel, chem/bio response teams, ships, airbases, overflight rights and other support.

this sentence needs more precision. What is "other supports". Besides, placed where it was give the feeling only coalition forces brings humanitarian help. Could we keep separate notions of war support, from notions of humanitarian support please ? ant

Considering the fact that some of the nations request not to be named - it'd be difficult to compile a "complete" list or to list exactly what every country is doing.

re: humanitarian help.. feel free to add that other countries and organizations are also providing humanitarian help. I don't see how the above sentence suggests that its only coalition forces.

Naming

Whatever you call it I know which conflict you mean and that is what a title is for. History will decide on the final name or names. Meanwhile don't get bogged down in polemics Ping

Discussion about contributor actions

Cunctator, since you're editing other peoples comments on the talk page.. can I edit yours?--BugBoy

You can. Whether you may is another question. --The Cunctator

BugBoy must of missed the memo that stated you can do it and he can't. --mav

Huh? I just said BugBoy can. --The Cunctator

Various Topics

"Around midnight UTC (early morning local time), the Turkish military stated that 1,500 Turkish troops had moved into northern Iraq"

Has this been confirmed? I've heard conflicting info about this. Some have said the troops had always been where they are now and they haven't moved. Others have said they are moving troops in, others have said they're not. And unless I'm mistaken, didn't a Turkish offical just announce that they did not have plans to enter Iraq? Anyone know what is happening exactly?

I thought the "more than 30" were killed in the marketplace - this article says 14 dead and 30 wounded... Perhaps Wikipedians are reporting on breaking events too fast? Given the number of "major reports" that turned out not to be news, we should wait at least a day before adding anything new. --dan

Shouldn't the "Operation" title be at the start of the article, as it is with Desert storm and other wars? I don't mean the actual "article title" - I mean, shouldn't the Operation name be one of the first things listed and in bold as it is in other wars like Gulf War? It was the first thing and then someone moved it down a ways.

Removed from article:

The invasion is opposed by a majority of the population in most of the coalition nations.

In the US, at least, less than the majority of the population opposes the invasion, according to 2 TV network polls I remember reading. If my memory is wrong, please cite some polls or other proof, and put the correct info back into the article. --Uncle Ed 23:08 Mar 28, 2003 (UTC)

I think youd better cite sources before saying whether a majority does or does not support the war. Youd also better cite the question and answers offered in the survey. Otherwise the information is useless. Dietary Fiber

I agree. That's why I removed the statement. Pending sources, etc., it's tantamount to propaganda. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not taking a side one way or another here on the ethics of the war (ask me privately, if you want). I'm just trying to make the article accurate and timeless. --Uncle Ed

Ed: It was referenced. In the "coalition of the willing" entry: [1].

"Part of the US position..."....which part? exactly who? cite references. Kingturtle 03:41 Mar 29, 2003 (UTC)

I don't have an answer, just a question. We have a problem here with the numbers. How do we define the number of combat personnel? Assume (for the sake of example) that Australia has 2000 personnel in theatre (it's actually a bit more than that, but round figures will do for my example). Of those 2000, assume:

150 SAS troops. (Obviously combat personnel)
30 F/A-18 pilots (ditto)
20 Chinook crewmembers (not intended to be combat personnel, but if they have to perform an SAS extraction under fire ....)
Navy personnel seem like non-combat staff on first sight, but HMAS ANZAC was doing shore bombardment the other day - if you are firing shots, I guess that makes you a combatant.
And so on.

The exact same problem applies to the Polish force, of course. And indeed, to the US & UK. Tannin 07:14 Mar 29, 2003 (UTC)