Talk:2003 invasion of Iraq/Archive 2

Talk:2003 invasion of Iraq/archive1
Talk:2003 invasion of Iraq/archive2

Summary of issues under discussion

Sources

This entry is impossible to present without coming from some perspective; what we can do is, when we make the editorial decision to include content, to mention the source of that content.

External links to news items should preferably be placed at the bottom of the page, with the title of the news item, source, and date, and a summary of relevant content if not apparent from the title.

Naming

The two reasonable titles for this entry are 2003 invasion of Iraq and U.S. invasion of Iraq (add alternatives if you strongly believe either is deficient). See Talk:2001 U.S. Attack on Afghanistan for a (possibly) comparable discussion.

The first avoids (potentially contentious) questions of the nature of the invasion and is permanently unambiguous (as long as the military campaign ends within 2003).

The second follows the standard set by U.S. invasion of Afghanistan, makes a (potentially contentious) definitive statement about the nature of the invasion, and is unambiguous (as long as the U.S. doesn't invade Iraq in the future).

The naming issues affects other entries as well, and is discussed at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Iraq war) - please use this as a central place for all your naming convention-related discussion.

Nature of Coalition/Invasion

Is the phrase "U.S. invasion of Iraq" misleading or not? This question depends on the nature of the coalition and reasons for the invasion. The nature of the coalition is discussed at coalition of the willing.

Nature of Coalition/Invasion

content moved to Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Iraq war)

Many of these countries are supplying medical personel, chem/bio response teams, ships, airbases, overflight rights and other support.

this sentence needs more precision. What is "other supports". Besides, placed where it was give the feeling only coalition forces brings humanitarian help. Could we keep separate notions of war support, from notions of humanitarian support please ? ant

Considering the fact that some of the nations request not to be named - it'd be difficult to compile a "complete" list or to list exactly what every country is doing.

re: humanitarian help.. feel free to add that other countries and organizations are also providing humanitarian help. I don't see how the above sentence suggests that its only coalition forces.

Discussion about contributor actions

Cunctator, since you're editing other peoples comments on the talk page.. can I edit yours?--BugBoy

You can. Whether you may is another question. --The Cunctator

BugBoy must of missed the memo that stated you can do it and he can't. --mav

Huh? I just said BugBoy can. --The Cunctator

Various Topics

"Around midnight UTC (early morning local time), the Turkish military stated that 1,500 Turkish troops had moved into northern Iraq"

Has this been confirmed? I've heard conflicting info about this. Some have said the troops had always been where they are now and they haven't moved. Others have said they are moving troops in, others have said they're not. And unless I'm mistaken, didn't a Turkish offical just announce that they did not have plans to enter Iraq? Anyone know what is happening exactly?

I thought the "more than 30" were killed in the marketplace - this article says 14 dead and 30 wounded... Perhaps Wikipedians are reporting on breaking events too fast? Given the number of "major reports" that turned out not to be news, we should wait at least a day before adding anything new. --dan

Shouldn't the "Operation" title be at the start of the article, as it is with Desert storm and other wars? I don't mean the actual "article title" - I mean, shouldn't the Operation name be one of the first things listed and in bold as it is in other wars like Gulf War? It was the first thing and then someone moved it down a ways.

Removed from article:

The invasion is opposed by a majority of the population in most of the coalition nations.

In the US, at least, less than the majority of the population opposes the invasion, according to 2 TV network polls I remember reading. If my memory is wrong, please cite some polls or other proof, and put the correct info back into the article. --Uncle Ed 23:08 Mar 28, 2003 (UTC)

I think youd better cite sources before saying whether a majority does or does not support the war. Youd also better cite the question and answers offered in the survey. Otherwise the information is useless. Dietary Fiber

I agree. That's why I removed the statement. Pending sources, etc., it's tantamount to propaganda. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not taking a side one way or another here on the ethics of the war (ask me privately, if you want). I'm just trying to make the article accurate and timeless. --Uncle Ed

Ed: It was referenced. In the "coalition of the willing" entry: [1].

"Part of the US position..."....which part? exactly who? cite references. Kingturtle 03:41 Mar 29, 2003 (UTC)

I don't have an answer, just a question. We have a problem here with the numbers. How do we define the number of combat personnel? Assume (for the sake of example) that Australia has 2000 personnel in theatre (it's actually a bit more than that, but round figures will do for my example). Of those 2000, assume:

150 SAS troops. (Obviously combat personnel)
30 F/A-18 pilots (ditto)
20 Chinook crewmembers (not intended to be combat personnel, but if they have to perform an SAS extraction under fire ....)
Navy personnel seem like non-combat staff on first sight, but HMAS ANZAC was doing shore bombardment the other day - if you are firing shots, I guess that makes you a combatant.
And so on.

The exact same problem applies to the Polish force, of course. And indeed, to the US & UK. Tannin 07:14 Mar 29, 2003 (UTC)

The real point that should be gained from this is that the Polish support is, militarily, primarily symbolic. In terms of individual lives, it's significant, but the Polish commandoes are unlike to change the course of the war. The reality is that the U.S. and U.K. presence dwarfs the others, so that to a zero-order approximation this is a U.S. war, to a first-order approximation it is U.S. & U.K. The U.S. is using hundreds of thousands of people and spending billions of dollars and using billions of dollars of equipment. Noone comes close to that. It would be much more disingenuous to state "This is a US, UK, Australian, and Polish invasion" (without stating the disparity in numbers) than to state "This is a US invasion". --The Cunctator