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I previously possessed the template editor rights, but am now re-requesting the template editor right. I believe I have learned from my mistakes and have tried to collaborate better with other editors. I also believe I have successfully met all of the guidelines necessary in order to request this permission. Charlesaaronthompson (talk) 21:54, 13 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Charlesaaronthompson: This comes across as a reasonable, good-natured request. However, reviewing the revocation discussion, you came across as reasonable and good-natured there as well. In the evidence of your tool misuse, no evidence was presented of you being anything accept reasonable and good-natured in all of your communications. That's great, but that's not the issue. The issue was that you were literally violating the conditions of the TE permission. Assuming we take your good natured communications at face value, this wasn't done out of malice, but out of pure ignorance that there were even rules that you were supposed to be following. Then there's the additional fact that you claimed that you weren't even aware of sandboxes, when experience working with sandboxes is literally a requirement to even be granted this right to begin with. So, while I don't want to be harsh and decline you, this request doesn't really say anything to me that you haven't already said. We get it, you're "sorry", and you "want to collaborate better". I'll buy that...but that doesn't mean anything to me. Your original TE grant was obviously in error, simply because you didn't actually understand the conditions and limitations of the TE user right, and you didn't even understand basic Template fundamentals like the fact that we use sandboxes for experimenting. I'm really not concerned with your Template experience since TE was revoked, you have thousands of Template space edits going back many years. I'm concerned that you still don't actually understand what the issues were and what changes you would need to make going forward to conclusively resolve those issues. Specifically. This request does not actually address that. I'll give you a chance to respond if you want, but your current request is far below any standard of what we need to see from you right now. Again, not trying to be harsh, you seem like a nice person and you've done a lot of work in the Template space. I just need to see a definitive, specific statement articulating that you understand what the issues were and that those issues have already been resolved. ~Swarm~{sting}22:23, 19 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Swarm: OK. I understand. I understand that the issues surrounding the revocation of my template editor rights were based around the obvious and clear fact that I clearly abused and misused the template editor right. I also acknowledge that I violated the conditions of the TPE permission. For all of that, I'm deeply sorry and I apologize. However, I have tried very diligently to learn from my mistakes. I'm clearly aware now that there are sandboxes which are intended to be used to experiment with proposed changes before trying to implement changes at protected modules. I'm also aware that I should make more of a concerted effort to collaborate better with other editors who have access to TPE and should use the sandboxes to experiment with. I understand the basic template fundamentals better now. I also understand the conditions and limitations of the TPE user right better now. Does this address the definitive, specific statement intended to articulate that I understand what the issues are and that my issues have been resolved? If not, how else may I be able to prove that I've learned and should be granted the TPE user right once again? Charlesaaronthompson (talk) 23:30, 20 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
While I understand that updating hex codes is a rather trivial change to make to a template or module, here is still no sandboxing being done for some of the more complex changes being made; I'm a little concerned by this set of edits (you should check the few in the middle), as well as this exchange regarding TPERs. The code from that diff should never have made it into the final template to be cleaned up by someone else. I'm mostly with Swarm on this right now - you've made a reasonable request, but I'm just not seeing the level of consistency and coding ability that one would expect from a Template Editor. Primefac (talk) 00:26, 21 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Primefac: OK. I understand. How would I need to demonstrate the level of consistency and coding ability that one would expect from a template editor? What should I need to do in order to satisfy all requirements necessary to be re-granted TPE rights? Charlesaaronthompson (talk) 01:12, 21 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Also you basically just restated what I told you I was looking for. But I said specifically. You did not articulate specifically how you violated the rules, you did not specifically explain your current understanding of the rules, and you did not explain specifically what changes from you we can expect going forward. I'm not asking you to jump through hoops, I'm asking you to convince us that you've achieved a masterful understanding of the Template Editor user right and are able to comprehend the rules and practices and specific behaviors and actions and changes that we can expect from you. So I can only assume that you either still do not possess the mastery of Template editing that I am looking for, or that it is simply difficult to communicate with you, which is unacceptable on its own merits. A Template editor needs to have excellent communication skills, and needs to be able to participate in complicated technical discussions. If you can't provide a technical explanation that you understand the conditions and baseline requirements for this right, how can we expect you to participate and adjudicate complex disputes about template coding? When you say that generally, you need to make a more concerted effort to collaborate, that's meaningless. Collaboration is not some vague expectation, it's a complex stipulation of the user right conditions that is assigned different levels of importance based on different types of Template edits. It honestly seems like you still haven't even read WP:TE. I was as specific as humanly possible as to what we needed to see, and you provided absolutely nothing except just restating the same vague platitudes that you have already been saying over and over again, apparently having no new insight from the revocation discussion, apparently not having even read or understood WP:TE enough to give us a comprehensive analysis of why your user right was revoked and why the situation has changed, and are still asking what you need to do to satisfy our requirements, as if you still don't even understand what we are looking for. I tried giving you a chance to prove me wrong, and I'm sorry, but I don't think you're there yet. I'm 100% open to regranting you this, and I think any admin here would be as well. We're not seeking to punish you for past mistakes, if we didn't like granting extended permissions we wouldn't be staffing this page. However, you have some things to work on. First, you need to review WP:TPEGRANT and satisfy each of the granting requirements, namely #5 and #6. I'm not asking you to start from scratch in terms of edit counts, but I do need to see that you've worked on three sandboxes and have requested five significant edits to protected templates before your next request. And this doesn't mean petty experimenting with aesthetics, this means real improvements and satisfying the discussion requirements as necessary. Also, you need to study WP:TPECON. You need to know it front and back, it's not rocket science, it's a baseline requirement. You not only need to be able to comprehensively explain your understanding of it, but you need to comprehensively explain that you understand why you were not in line with it to begin with. I'm not going to give you the answers, you need to know the rules and comprehend them enough to understand what you did wrong and what you need to change. This isn't some user right for users who like to mess around with templates, it's a user right for users who are highly technically competent, highly competent with following bureaucracy, highly competent with communication skills and dispute resolution skills, highly competent with coding, and trustworthy enough to make a single minor edit that can potentially disrupt and break thousands and thousands of articles, which the average editor will be unable to deduce how to fix it. This is a high-stakes user right. This is without a doubt the most restricted and potentially damaging user right on the project short of adminship. It is usually never granted without a comprehensive screening of the candidate's work, and an individual review of all the granting requirements. I think you may have been cut a break on this because the sheer amount of work you had in the template space was so vast, it seemed like a safe bet. I probably would have done the same. But that is a mistake for us to learn from. It is not an entitlement for you to have this reinstated with some vague assurances and apologies. You probably feel like we're absolutely grilling you, but we're not. We're just applying the normal baseline expectations for this user right. If you need guidance to improve and become more competent in the Template space, and to understand the rules and conditions of the Template editor user right, seek out a TE to mentor you. TEs are highly competent, good faith editors, and I'm sure you will have no trouble finding someone who is willing to help you improve in the Template space and work on eventually becoming a TE in your own right. I have faith in you that you are a great editor who is capable of achieving this, if you want to. And at that point you will be able to say that you truly earned it and are entitled to it. Best of luck, and you're free to follow up on my talk page if you need further guidance. But for now, with regret, Not done. ~Swarm~{sting}01:58, 21 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I want to contribute more to Wikipedia on maps. Since the battle maps can be protected and dynamic, I cannot make important changes. I added many maps, especially the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict map, to Wikipedia. I hope I wrote my request in the correct section :) Emreculha (talk) 22:23, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Automated comment This user has had this permission revoked in the past 180 days ([1]). — MusikBot talk 22:00, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
Not done. ~Swarm~ {sting} 01:58, 21 October 2020 (UTC)