Wikipedia:Featured article removal candidates

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Pyroclastic (talk | contribs) at 03:25, 28 July 2005. The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

WP:FARC redirects here. For the Colombian guerilla movement, see FARC

If you feel an article on Wikipedia:Featured articles should no longer be featured, then this is the place where an article is nominated for demotion. Only pages that do not adhere to the featured article criteria may be listed. Objections raised must be actionable.

Do not list articles that have recently been promoted—such complaints should have been brought up during the candidate period. Do not list articles that have recently survived removal attempts. Either listing is likely to be summarily removed.

Once an article has been listed here for two weeks, it will be removed from the featured articles list if the consensus is to remove, and added to the list of Former Featured Articles. All discussions will be logged at Wikipedia:Featured article removal candidates/archive.

Nomination procedure

  • Place {{farc}} on the talk page of the nominated article.
  • From there, click on the "add a comment" link.
  • (If you are resubmitting an article) Use the Move button to rename the previous nomination to an archive. For example, Wikipedia:Featured article removal candidates/Television → Wikipedia:Featured article removal candidates/Television/archive1
  • Place ===[[name of nominated article]]=== at the top of the subpage.
  • Below it, write your reason for nominating the article. Note which of the featured article criteria the article fails to meet.
  • Finally, place {{Wikipedia:Featured article removal candidates/name of nominated article}} at the top of the list of nominees on this page by first copying the above, clicking "edit" on the top of the page, and then pasting, making sure to add the name of the nominated article.
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Articles nominated for removal

Add new nominations on top.

Mitochondrial Eve

Article is no longer a featured article

From being a FA with only two support votes this has turned into somewhat of a brainfart. There are several problems with the article, it weasels its way around concepts that are as good as proven (we all have a more recent common ancestor than Eve), badly explains and possibly get wrong several important concepts (I have a degree in biology and I can't work out why a population bottleneck is implied or needed). Dunc| 17:54, 25 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

26 July 2005 (UTC)

  • Remove. That said, I hope someone will fix the article b/c it could be a good one.--Alabamaboy 11:57, 28 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • cleanup, or revert to FA'd version. It could be saved with comparatively little effort by somebody who know's what they're doing. Failing that, remove, I'm afraid, see my comment on talk. dab () 06:52, 5 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Remove. I agree, there is something just not "feature article-ish" about it. And a stub section in a FA? Come on...--naryathegreat | (talk) 00:22, August 8, 2005 (UTC)
  • Cleanup It's on the verge of FA. Karmafist 04:14, 8 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Hutton Inquiry

Article is no longer a featured article

I do not believe this article can honestly be said to be comprehensive. It deals only briefly with the conduct of the inquiry itself, before going on to sum up Lord Hutton's conclusions in a very dry and 'listy' form. A large part of the article is then given over to reporting what people in the press and public life have said about it. In my opinion the real impact of the Hutton inquiry came in the manner it was conducted and the evidence given to the inquiry rather than the report which was written rather badly, and (though I happen to agree with most of its conclusions) has largely been dismissed as a whitewash. I was prompted to put it up for removal by reading the latest British Journal of Political Science which includes a long article by Diana Coole analysing the Hutton Inquiry from a philosophical basis and asking (with Pilate?) "What is truth?". If it's that significant it deserves a better encyclopaedia article than we have here. David | Talk 09:32, 19 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Addendum: Readers may be interested in the nomination and 'debate' over whether to feature this article, from February 2004. David | Talk 10:20, 19 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Object. I don't see why it's worse now than it was when it was listed. It seems like you missed your chance to object then, and are doing so now. It is your own responsibility to follow the WP:FAC page. Superm401 | Talk 00:18, July 24, 2005 (UTC)
    • Playing the man not the ball? Please don't. For the record I wasn't a Wikipedian when it was proposed on Featured Article Candidates. I dispute that this was ever really of featured status because it really isn't an article about the Hutton Inquiry but about other people's reactions to it. Can you honestly say that one paragraph about the conduct of the inquiry is enough? David | Talk 10:35, 24 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Remove - It's not any worse now than it was when featured, but standards have risen a great deal in the year and a half since then, and if nominated today I don't think it would pass. In particular, as the nominator says, the paragraph on the inquiry itself is surely inadequate, and the section about the report is not brilliant prose. It's a good article with a lot of content, but not an example of the very best of Wikipedia. Worldtraveller 14:04, 24 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Remove Awful article. Dubious copyright tag on images.Borisblue 14:25, 24 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Remove. Ambi 00:23, 26 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • If the proposer believes that it isn't supportive enough of the government maybe they should edit the article. It's not awful by any means. Secretlondon 15:50, 13 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Remove. I don't think it meets the current standards for Featured, in terms of depth or structure or writing quality (by which I mean too listy, too many quotes). Removing featured status might prompt those with an interest to improve it enough to get it up to current Featured standards. Rd232 22:24, 16 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Vanilla Ninja

Article is still a featured article.

I submit this article because it is incredibly poorly formatted, and lacks any real sources. I made an attempt to fix the formatting problems in the article, and they were quickly reverted as "necessary", so as it stands the introparagraph is a long list of bolded names and dates of birth. Second, while there are references, I cannot believe that they are the source of the actual information in this article. The sources, if they mention Vanilla Ninja at all, do so only very briefly. A request I made for more and better references on the talk page remains completely unanswered and ignored. This is in no way a featured article. Thanks! Páll 13:52, 18 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

  • Remove. There are numbered external links in this article, which go against our trusted Manual of Style. Also, in my opinion, this is a little too short for a featured article.  Denelson83  14:11, 18 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. This article should not be considered for removal b/c it was recently promoted to featured article status. (see rule at top of FA removal page, which says, "Do not list articles that have recently been promoted—such complaints should have been brought up during the candidate period.") As a result, I believe the issues with the article listed above should be addressed on the article's talk page.--Alabamaboy 14:55, 18 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    • While normally I would agree with that, I have brought up several issues on the talk page, none of which have received a single reply. Páll 03:36, 20 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
      • The nomination was far from ideal. There were several very simple and reasonable objections which were simply ignored with little or no explanation as to why. Raul has, in fact, still not explained why he so thoroughly ignored actionable objections. People behind an FA need to be deferential to those who take time to review their work and pay proper respect when reasonable objections are brought up. This includes matters that could be viewed as opinion (layout and such) and compromises, not stubborn argumentation, should be offered. If these are simply ignored and more time is spent arguing against them rather than amending them, its status as an FA should be rightfully questioned. A lot of people seem to have the notion that an FA is an unalienable right anyone is entitled to after a certain amount of time spent on an article. /Peter Isotalo 10:49, 24 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, although my current dis-illusions with Wikipedia mean I don't actually care. Hedley 18:05, 19 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Seems like a perfectly good article to me. I don't see anything so wrong with this that it needs removing from the list of featured articles. There are much worse ones on the list. If there are any concerns they can be brought up on the talk page. This was only recently featured and most people who commented on the nomination thought it was worthy of being featured. Nothing drastic has happened to the quality of the article since then. — Trilobite (Talk) 18:22, 19 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Remove. A featured article should be comprehensive, and this article says next to nothing about the music this group makes. Monicasdude 02:27, 20 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep as per Alabamaboy. Follow the rules. Superm401 | Talk 00:21, July 24, 2005 (UTC)
    • If anything, the "rules" were broken when the article was featured despite several actionable objections. /Peter Isotalo 10:49, 24 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
      • Which have now been fixed. I don't see your point. Hedley 15:10, 24 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hedley, tell me where each reference goes and I can fix the references to the MoS format of footnotes. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 21:31, 24 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    • I don't think there is any rule stating that type of references is needed. I think the references are fine as they are. Hedley 17:23, 30 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, putting this up for removal for lack of good academic references is obtuse, it's an article on pop culture. I've yet to see a university with a good Estonian Pop Studies course. Sure, there's some formatting cleanup that could be done, but that's sofixit territory. --zippedmartin 19:35, 28 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong keep. FARC should only be used for articles which are in a terrible state since they were first promoted (eg. POV war, poor structure), but not because the footnotes aren't formatted correctly. This article was only featured quite recently, and so shouldn't be here at all, never mind the fact there is no real reason to remove the FA status. Unless something drastically changes, this is a first-rate source on an obscure band with great depths of information included. Harro5 09:05, July 30, 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment Note that there are sufficient references for everything in the article; Those that have read it and are familiar with the topic can see that. Those that have glanced should not be commenting on the references. Furthermore, some references aren't linked per opinion given that references in German and other languages are not suitable for use on an English language encyclopedia. Finally, those German references were replaced as well as possible by the English language ones given. Hedley 17:23, 30 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

ROC presidential election, 2004

Article is no longer a featured article

I submit this for removal for a few reasons. First of all, it has no references at all. Second, the introparagraph is awful, poorly formatted, and repetative. Second, the writing is poor and non-standard throughout the article. Also, the one image that is not a map has doubtful copyright status. Thank you! Páll 13:49, 18 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

  • Remove. The article is chock-full of short paragraphs. Featured articles should describe each point they raise in great depth. At least one particular section only has a shallow description of the point it raises.  Denelson83  14:15, 18 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Undecided. Why can't I access the discussion that lead to this article being selected as a Featured Article in the first place? When I go to the article's discussion page and click the "identified" link in the featured article box, the words "Added to History by Raul654" pop up (at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/ROC presidential election, 2004) My understanding is that all featured articles should keep a link to the discussion that lead to the article first achieving FA status. I would like to hear why this link isn't available. I will wait to make my final vote after I hear why this link was removed.--Alabamaboy 16:41, 18 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Remove. Not comprehensive, map is hokey, bad layout, no references, prose is not wikiworthy. Michelle T 21:16, 6 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Bob Dylan

previous FAR 1
previous FAR 2
previous FAR 3

Libertarianism

Article is still a featured article.

Fails to meet the third criteria, in that it has a neutrality tag, a controversial tag and seems to be in the middle of an edit war. Is also listed twice on RfC. Hiding 5 July 2005 13:15 (UTC)

  • Since the neutrality tag has been off the page for over ten days now, as nominator I am happy to change my vote to Keep. Hiding talk 08:14, 16 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Note: as of tonight, the POV tag has been removed by User:Kevehs, who placed it there initially.

Remove. It's a great article in its established form, but it's also a big attraction for POV pushing. I hate to say it, but this is too controversial to be featured. --Malathion 5 July 2005 13:47 (UTC)
Keep I think that the FARC was a little premature. If you'll let me explain what's going on, I hope you'll agree. Perhaps the article needs to be renamed, but its contents are definitely featured article quality.
    1. The POV tag and controversial tag were not about the contents of the article, but about the name. Some users believe that the article should be placed elsewhere (for example, at "right-libertarianism," with "libertarianism" being a disambiguation page) but they don't dispute the content. See this edit which led to the tags being added.
    2. The "edit war" you were referring to is because an anonymous user kept on inserting a complaint about other editors into the article's text [1], not an edit war about content.
    3. The RFC issues have been addressed in talk as far as I can tell. Both were about problem users that seem to have mostly given up and gone elsewhere.
    4. It is my understanding that Wikipedia can feature articles on controversial subjects so long as they are dealth with fairly. We shouldn't let trolls disrupt a good article.
I hope you'll consider removing your FARC in light of these facts. I think that the issue of the article name should be dealt with separately from the issue of its contents and whether or not it can be featured. Dave (talk) July 5, 2005 13:53 (UTC)
Remove, unless tags are dealt with I've taken the liberty of changing your votes to "keep" and "remove" rather than "support" and "object", it's clearer that way. Unless this article stabilizes, I'm afraid it has to go. Borisblue 6 July 2005 01:49 (UTC)
Keep. I can understand why there article attracts a lot of POV pushing. However, I believe that it is an excellent article with some dedicated editors willing to work on resolving their issues. As stated above, the article will always attract vandals and people who make poor edits. This isn't a reason to remove it. My suggestion is to give this article two months. If after that time it is still subject to edit wars, then bring it back up for removal consideration.--Alabamaboy 6 July 2005 13:36 (UTC)
Keep. Article does attact POV pushing, but it's nothing we can't handle. Article is still remarkably good, though could do with improving. - Ta bu shi da yu 7 July 2005 08:52 (UTC)
Remove. The tags need to go or the article will not seem credible. Peter Isotalo 18:15, 11 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. The current issues involve disruptive users, not problems with the article itself. Rhobite 15:33, July 12, 2005 (UTC)
Keep. Agree with Rhobite. Christopher Parham (talk) 18:12, 2005 July 15 (UTC)
Keep. Agree with Dave, Ta bu shi da yu and Rhobite. --Serge 18:20, 21 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Remove. This article is currently marginalizing some views that fall under the "libertarian" label, with editors excusing this by claiming that such views are minority or no longer in widespread use. Some of these same editors ignore similar facts in other articles (like anarchism), meaning that a double-standard is being applied across articles. This article needs to deal with libertarian socialism in a substantive way, via diambiguation of the entire thing, brief introduction along with NPOV definitions and charts, or some third option, rather than to ignore it, use POV language to imply that it is somehow less legitimate, or describe the use of the term "libertarian" in lib soc as nothing more than an adjective, rather than a political philosophy with a history and close tradition with libertarianism. Kev 10:24, 23 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
With respect to whether the libertarianism article needs to "deal with libertarian socialism in a substantive way", it seems to me that the issue is whether the term libertarianism is used today, in English, in at least some NPOV contexts, to refer to the topic covered on the libertarian socialism page. If such usage is now decades old, which appears to be the case, then I believe that the reference to it at the top of the page is more than sufficient.
As to the allegation that there is a double-standard, I don't think this is the case. As far as I can tell, in the example given, the variations of anarchism that are "dealt with in a substantive way" on that page are generally and currently referred to as anarchism in English, at least in some NPOV contexts. The anarchism article does not deal with political philosophies that have "a history and close tradition" with anarchism, it deals with philosophies that are actually referred to as anarchism. Similarly, the libertarianism article should not deal with political philosophies that have "a history and close tradition" with libertarianism, but should deal with political philosophies that are actually referred to as libertarianism. --Serge 18:22, 27 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
A recent vote overwhelmingly rejected moving the article to Libertarianism (capitalism) and having the article located at libertarianism cover all philosophies with that title. The "double-standard" across articles is not relevant to this article's featured status, as it is not something that can be fixed by modifying this article. Dave (talk) 15:30, August 2, 2005 (UTC)
Keep. Removing articles about controversial topics is incredibly wrong-headed and smacks of POV-pushing (not accusing anyone but saying we want to make a precedent against this). — Phil Welch 08:11, 24 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
That doesn't make sense. Who's pushing what POV (most "Remove"-votes seem to be about the mere presence of a disputed-sign) and how can we possibly set a precedent that one of the FAC criterion should always be ignored? Why would we even have it then? I don't think we can separate articles from their conflicts since we're a collaborative effort. If an article can't handle a conflict which is supposedly irrelevant to the content, then it shouldn't be noticable in that article. As long as the sign stays up the credibility of the entire article will seem tainted to the average reader.
Peter Isotalo 17:36, 27 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. agree with dave and Rhobite. --Manveru 05:37, 28 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Remove, unless tags are dealt with The argument over the name is a political one. The right gains by holding the status quo - Libertarian means pro-capitalist tendencies alone. Left gains by demoting those tendencies to variant. Choose your side or queue for hot dogs...[unsigned comment left by 82.69.29.92
Keep, as per reasons above. - Mailer Diablo 05:02, 31 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Remove. Since the [Libertarian socialism] article has been removed as too controversial and lacking unanimous concensus, this should be removed for the same reason. Metamatic 04:26, August 1, 2005 (UTC)
That was a result of a decision reached between user:Sam Spade and user:Toby Bartels, not policy, as far as I can tell. If FAs must be unanimous, then this system of voting would be superfluous. Someone would just say it should be removed, and it would have to be removed, even if everyone else thought it was FA-worthy. Dave (talk) 15:47, August 2, 2005 (UTC)
BIG DELETE This is WIKIPEDIA not hippie leftist wacko islamist loving scum message boards--205.188.117.13 04:28, 1 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Presumably no one is going to pay attention to this vote? Dave (talk) 15:33, August 2, 2005 (UTC)
Keep Some is better than none, and its realy not that bad. This was a featured article, and example of prose and POV standards. --Cuimalo 05:42, 2 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. There really isn't a substantive NPOV dispute here; rather, there's a small number of contributors who object to the way the word "libertarianism" is used in English today. Their attempt to have the article renamed to fit their particular views rather than common usage was soundly rejected by the Wikipedia community, as reflected in the vote wherein a 2/3 supermajority opposed the proposed move. For them to continue to push the issue (as seems to be happening here) strikes me as an abuse of process, just like constantly renominating an article for VfD would be. --FOo 16:45, 3 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Remove. Wikipedia's ongoing, uncontrolled libertarian bias is, not surprisingly, found in this article. Even with a NPOV rule, the right-wing libertarians still get there way here, being allowed to take over this article to promote themselves over other political views that use their name. It's sad that a potentially good service such as Wikipedia can be controlled so much by one political group; it's even sadder that they blatantly promote biased articles to featured status when it suits their ideology.
And, ya, go ahead and call me a troll if you want. I've been a loyal Wikipedia editor for some time, and one of the top contributors, but the bias that gets ignored here makes even me think that Wikipedia is not going to be a reliable source for a long time. -- LGagnon 02:31, August 4, 2005 (UTC)
No one is going to call you a troll, but you might want to say what is biased so it could be fixed. Should the criticism section be expanded? Dave (talk) 03:38, August 4, 2005 (UTC)
Thank you for your kindness in your reply. I've unfortunately been on the bad end of slander here at Wikipedia when expressing a controversial viewpoint, which was takenly seriously despite its blatantly obvious lack of reliability (this reign of trolls is another problem with our current system, but that's a problem for another discussion), and thus I felt that I had to add that disclaimer just in case.
This article's definition of libertarianism as only the current "popular" use seems biased to me; a disambiguation page would be better to have here, as it would be less POV in that it wouldn't support one definition as the "true" one. This, however, is not the only libertarian bias I've seen at Wikipedia. Articles pertaining to issues that libertarians hold dear, such as globalization and free trade, have been favorable towards libertarian views as they do not go into enough detail on criticisms of these concepts (for instance, notice no mention whatsoever of sweatshops and related atrocities in either article, an important factor in criticisms of them). Likewise, anti-globalization had a POV scandal with fringe claims of anti-Semitism taking up a huge part of the article; even now, with that info forked to another article (which is still designated POV), it gets its own section in the article despite it being an extremely small one (a subtle yet noticable bias). Additionally, I once attempt to get an article (Jello Biafra) related to progressivism (which I guess one might consider an opposite view to libertarianism) to featured article status, yet it was rejected twice on shady grounds. The first time, it was given failure status a bit too early. The second time, it was given failure status on the basis of an objection that had been cleared up immediately after it was made. And dispite this, this article made it to FA status even though it is still POV.
Right now, the biggest problem with bias in the media these days is not just political bias, but the fact that the whole truth is not given. As it stands, we have many libertarians running Wikipedia and working to "improve" articles related to their beliefs without adding detailed criticisms (not surprisingly, I have found libertarians, whether online or offline, tend to make no attempt to research criticisms of their beliefs). This is a systematic bias, a thing that Wikipedia has discussed but never mentions the political side of it. In fact, Wikipedia has a page about systematic bias within the project (can't remember what it was called right now), yet it doesn't mention libertarianism in it. That doesn't surprise me, though, as the one page in Wikipedia that did mention it - Wikipedia's own article - had the part about it deleted. -- LGagnon 23:09, August 4, 2005 (UTC)
I don't think I've had anything to do with the articles you've mentioned except this one. In fact, I wrote most of the content criticizing libertarianism on the Criticism of libertarianism page, which is summarized in the main libertarianism article. The one issue relevant here--the title--was dealt with at the recent vote. Dave (talk) 02:31, August 5, 2005 (UTC)

Keep

Keep IMO this FARC nomination has more to do with the article's editors and the article's name than it does the article's content. . . 66.94.94.154 18:59, 15 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Comment It would be nice if you could assume good faith. Hiding talk 08:14, 16 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]