User talk:Formeruser0910

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Kablammo (talk | contribs) at 17:51, 29 June 2006 (→‎SS France: add cite). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Archive 1

Cruise Liner

Regarding your comment in editing out the term "Cruise Liner" in the SS Canberra article. It is interesting that you should think cruise liner is an oxymoronic term, considering "cruise" and "liner" do not contradict each other. A liner is a ship that carries out scheduled voyages between A and B, either for the purposes of carrying cargo or passengers, or both. There is nothing to say a liner can not offer cruises along the way, if it is meeting its schedule. And how can there be no such thing, when "cruise liner" gets 975,000 hits in Google and many companies referring to their ships by that term?. A Cruise liner can be;

  • A liner converted to a cruise ship
  • A ship built to perform liner voyages and cruise, ie QE2 and QM2
  • A passenger/ cargo liner that offers cruise holidays in addition to, or during the course of, its scheduled liner voyages- ie RMS St. Helena
  • A loose marketing term for a cruise ship that supposedly offers the luxury and facilities of the liners of old

--Dashers 00:14, 15 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think a term coined by travel agents to pitch a sale can be taken too seriously. There has been for almost 50 years one distinct characteristic that defines what category a ship fits into: how it's built. Liners are constructed differently to cruise ships; narrower, stiffer, more curved hulls, with thicker steel and deeper drafts, and more powerful propulsion. An ocean liner can do cruise routes, and a cruise ship can line voyages, but that doesn't make the ocean liner a cruise ship, nor the cruise ship an ocean liner, or either a "cuise liner", otherwise every ship would be one. The Mauretania, Queen Elizabeth, Rotterdam IV, Normandie and many other liners undertook numerous cruises - have they ever been referred to as cruise liners?
Now, ships built purposefully for both crossing and cruising are a bit ambiguous, but their status as liners seems to take precedence amongst ship experts, as no matter whether she cruises or not, without the characteristics of a liner she cannot be one. Never have I heard of a ship historian (John Maxtone-Graham, Bill Miller, Lee Server, etc.) refer to anything called a "cruise liner", or refer to dual purpose ships like the QM2, QE2 and Rotterdam as anything other than ocean liners. In fact, I believe it was Maxtone-Graham who said "cruise liner" was oxymoronic - I guess I picked it up from him. --gbambino 03:18, 15 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I would like to start by saying that I have never used the term cruise liner myself, and passenger ships to me are either liners, cruise ships or ferries- but I would not go so far as to say never the twain shall meet. Having said that, I do not think that terms that have appeared in modern usage can be ignored or discarded, just because a bunch of maritime historians want to maintain the mystique of a bygone era. There are plenty of terms that come into common usage that as we get older and more set in our ways, we cringe at. Just because a phrase is a marketing term, it does not make it invalid- it is the level of usage that determines its validity. Past attempts to differentiate the larger, faster more luxurious vessels from the smaller slower ones by attempting to make the term Ocean Liner exclusive would have had as much to do with marketing as anything else.
I would argue that the characteristic that defines what category a ship fits into is its function, not its build- and a ship is built to take into account its function. The term liner has more to do with function- carrying out deep sea line voyages on set routes, to a regular schedule. They do not have to be powerful, as long as they meet the schedule they were designed for. Many cargo liners (a term that has been around much longer than Cruise Liner) would only have a top speed of 12 or 14 knots. Many of the ocean liners were built to perform their line voyages at high speed, for the benefit and comfort of their passengers and for prestige. Longer, narrower, stiffer hulls and more powerful propulsion enabled them to do this. However, many other passenger ships carrying out line voyages were not built to perform their function at high speed and did not have the long narrow hulls and powerful machinery of some of the transatlantic liners. Typically ships built by P&O and the British India Steam Navigation Company for servicing India and East Africa were more about comfort than speed, and the likes of the SS Uganda certainly did not have the long lines or powerful machinery of the likes of the RMS Queen Elizabeth. The Uganda was still a liner though.
When air travel first started to make inroads into markets formerly reserved for the shipping companies, many of the older (and, at the time, not so old) ships were deployed for cruising and most ceased performing line voyages altogether. When this happened, they ceased to be liners- they became cruise ships. When fuel prices started to climb in the 1970's, many had their machinery de-rated to be more fuel efficient- in effect, losing some of the specifications that, according to your argument, made them exclusively Ocean Liners. The desire to hang on to the term liner for these re-deployed ships would again have as much to do with marketing as technicalities. In this sense, the shipping companies trying to wring as much money out of an old ship would be trying to achieve the same goal as the maritime historians- preserving the mystique of that bygone era.

--Dashers 07:16, 15 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]


NirvanaNevermindalbumcover.jpg removed from your user page

An image or media file, Image:NirvanaNevermindalbumcover.jpg, has been removed from your userpage or user talk page because it was licensed as fair use. Wikipedia's fair use policy states that fair use images should only be used in the article namespace. As a result, although users are often given a great amount of latitude in the type of content that is allowed on their user pages, it is requested that you abide by this policy. Feel free, however, to add images and media files licensed under other terms. For more information, see Wikipedia's fair use policy and an accompanying essay on the removal of fair use images. Thank you for your cooperation.

Hipocrite - «Talk» 16:27, 20 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Fair Use Image; Canberra-ship1.jpg

I have uploaded the photo Image:03-Ponta_Delgada_1984.jpg which I have released to the public domain, and used it to replace Image:Canberra-ship1.jpg, in line with Wikipedia's fair use policy which states; "Copyrighted material lacking a free licence such as GFDL may be used on the English-language Wikipedia under fair use if..." "No free equivalent is available or could be created that would adequately give the same information" --Dashers 04:03, 21 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Dominion

Thought you'd be interested in this, there is a discussion on the Canada article, to remove the word dominion from the intro. Regards, -- Jeff3000 19:55, 23 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

SS France

You have reverted my deletion on the current location of Blue Lady. While I think the statement was current when first added to the article, the cited reference has changed and I could not see where it now supports the assertion as to the current location of the ship. Also, I don't think an enclyopedia article should state where it "now" is, but rather where it as as of a certain date. I haven't reverted it back but you may want to check the reference to see if supports the statement (and the cited source changes often), and also rephrase the statement so that it is not rapidly outdated, as would appear from a 6/28 article. [[1]]Kablammo 17:45, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]