Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Conduct in deletion-related editing/Workshop: Difference between revisions

Main case page (Talk) — Preliminary statements (Talk) — Evidence (Talk) — Workshop (Talk) — Proposed decision (Talk)

Case clerk: TBD Drafting arbitrator: TBD

Purpose of the workshop

Arbitration case pages exist to assist the Arbitration Committee in arriving at fair, well-informed decisions. The case Workshop exists so that parties to the case, other interested members of the community, and members of the Arbitration Committee can post possible components of the final decision for review and comment by others. Components proposed here may be general principles of site policy and procedure, findings of fact about the dispute, remedies to resolve the dispute, and arrangements for remedy enforcement. These are the four types of proposals that can be included in committee final decisions. There are also sections for analysis of /Evidence, and for general discussion of the case. Any user may edit this workshop page; please sign all posts and proposals. Arbitrators will place components they wish to propose be adopted into the final decision on the /Proposed decision page. Only Arbitrators and clerks may edit that page, for voting, clarification as well as implementation purposes.

Expected standards of behavior

• You are required to act with appropriate decorum during this case. While grievances must often be aired during a case, you are expected to air them without being incivil or engaging in personal attacks, and to respond calmly to allegations against you.
• Accusations of misbehaviour posted in this case must be proven with clear evidence (and otherwise not made at all).

Consequences of inappropriate behavior

• Editors who conduct themselves inappropriately during a case may be sanctioned by an arbitrator or clerk, without warning.
• Sanctions issued by arbitrators or clerks may include being banned from particular case pages or from further participation in the case.
• Editors who ignore sanctions issued by arbitrators or clerks may be blocked from editing.
• Behavior during a case may also be considered by the committee in arriving at a final decision.

Motions and requests by the parties

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Proposed temporary injunctions

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Questions to the parties

Arbitrators may ask questions of the parties in this section.

Proposed final decision

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Proposed principles

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Proposed findings of fact

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Proposed remedies

Note: All remedies that refer to a period of time, for example to a ban of X months or a revert parole of Y months, are to run concurrently unless otherwise stated.

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Proposals by User:Example 2

Proposed principles

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Proposed principles

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Analysis of evidence

Place here items of evidence (with diffs) and detailed analysis

JohnPackLambert and 7&6=thirteen

Despite these editors being right on each side of this pesky ideological divide, I believe they're both at least trying to be productive. However, they both can't help themselves when it comes to deletion related issues. I believe the evidence provided by Ritchie333 (about JPL) and by Beccaynr (about 7&6) are both the most relevant here, and don't come from anyone obviously with an axe to grind (there may be others, but I'm picking these two as the most straightforward as to why ArbCom need to take action). I don't have a particular view on the other two editors. Comment by BlackKite. Moved from evidence page by Barkeep49 17:29, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

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On the statistical evidence

There is one significant deficiency in the keep vs. delete statistics which needs to be kept in mind: participation in discussions is utterly voluntary, except for the nominator. Therefore one potential meaning of the voting ratio is that a user may prefer to vote in cases where they would vote "keep" or "delete" rather than that, for any random discussion, they would vote one way or the other. Also, most of us (I imagine) tend to reserve our participation to certain classes of subject. For example, I rarely vote in biography or band or album/song discussions. I haven't tried to run the numbers, but I have to think that the success ratio for nominations in different subject areas varies considerably.

Rather than focusing on who is a deletionist or inclusionist, I think it is more worthwhile to look at the accuracy. From the table I compiled it's clear that there is quite a bit of variance in this, and that some editors have fairly poor accuracy, while at least one editor whom I did not list has a 95% accuracy. I note that Mr. Lambert is reasonably accurate on voting but has a poorer record on nominations, as an example. I am hard pressed to believe that someone who mostly votes delete, accurately, is doing anything wrong in that respect. Mangoe (talk) 22:22, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

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There is nothing inherently wrong with voting keep or delete in nearly every AfD that you participate in. However, analyzing an individual's voting patterns helps to provide additional insight into the potential motivations and agendas that some voters bring to AfD. This voting analysis can be combined with a behavioral analysis of an editor at AfD to draw additional conclusions. In many cases, an editor might simply be searching out a certain type of AfD, and that could explain their innocent tendency to vote one way more than the other. However, if you see that someone tends to vote one way nearly all the time, and you simultaneously note that this person also demonstrates a pattern of behavioral problems (like getting overly emotional/argumentative at AfD, or nominating tons of article that are unlikely to be deleted, or trying to cite dubious sources in attempt to artificially inflate the notability of a subject, or canvassing other editors who are likely to vote the same way as them), then you can start to piece together the clues and understand that this editor has a problematic battleground mentality. Looking at the keep vs. delete ratio is not itself an indicator of a problem, but it's one of many signs that can be viewed simultaneously to put together the bigger picture.

Apart from that, I absolutely agree that the accuracy statistic is another critical stat that needs to be included (which is why I originally built that stat into the afdstats tool in the first place). If I had more than 500 characters to use in the evidence phase, I would have devoted some to that. Thanks to Mangoe for including that in their evidence. —⁠ScottyWong⁠— 22:43, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

The comments and discussion about "accuracy" to me should not be considered. I disagree with the named parties (and others) from time to time or even quite often in AFD discussions. But I should hope that there would be no harm in just disagreeing--worst case scenario is the editor is "wrong" and I can't think of a single reason to take action against someone for that. Now--for civility, that could be something that violates the Five Pillars and that would be a different story. But just... making a mistake? Disagreeing with consensus? I just don't see it. I hope that there is more being considered than just "accuracy" here.--Paul McDonald (talk) 02:22, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

A close look at civility and policy/guideline compliance tells us far more about an editor's conduct than statistics ever could. The evidence I presented regarding Lugnuts shows four AfDs [1][2][3][4] where articles with no SIGCOV sourcing whatsoever were kept based on spurious votes such as "meets NCRIC". These would show as "accurate" votes in the statistics despite running counter to what the guideline actually says. This also reflects either a lack of familiarity with the relevant guideline or an unwillingness to go against the numerical vote count on the part of closing admins, which is another issue that should be addressed here. –dlthewave ☎ 03:59, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

This also reflects either a lack of familiarity with the relevant guideline or an unwillingness to go against the numerical vote count on the part of closing admins, which is another issue that should be addressed here. 1000x this. We get like 1-2 DRVs a week on sportsperson closes that apparently failed to consider !votes by weight rather than number and/or were completely unfamiliar with NSPORT. This is exactly why it's problematic we have zero consequences for editors who consistently push non-guideline-based rationales. JoelleJay (talk) 04:42, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

• I share the nervousness some editors above express about focusing on accuracy. Being in the minority (that is, holding views on the subjective aspects by which we make decisions, or holding good-faith interpretations of policy that are reasonable but uncommon) is not against policy, and we should not sanction someone for that alone. If someone is constantly in the minority in discussions, it might be a reason to look carefully at their arguments and how they conduct themselves in order to ensure that their positions are at least defensible, but as long as their arguments clearly pass WP:COMPETENCE, are made in good faith, and are based on at least some plausible interpretation of policy then I don't think it's appropriate to sanction someone for consistently holding a minority position, not even if they are a constant AFD participant who is in the minority in every single discussion they take part in. Constantly creating AFDs that go nowhere is mildly more concerning (because unlike just participating, they could be wasting the community's time), but even then, the underlying reason for sanctions needs to be something more basic like WP:COMPETENCE or an WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT / WP:DEADHORSE / WP:BLUDGEON refusal to admit that some specific interpretation of policy they hold isn't widely enough shared for their repeated discussions to go anywhere. That requires looking at the actual arguments they make; simply being wrong a lot isn't sufficient. --Aquillion (talk) 07:23, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

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General discussion

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