Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kebede Bedasso: Difference between revisions

Kebede Bedasso

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Kebede Bedasso (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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Declined prod. 5 of the 6 sources are merely databases/results listing. The 6th source when translated is a small 1 line mention of Bedasso and not SIGCOV for meeting WP:SPORTSCRIT. Those arguing keep should supply indepth sources and not invoke NEXIST which has been discounted by many editors and admins in these athlete AfDs. LibStar (talk) 07:26, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Olympics, Sport of athletics, and Ethiopia. LibStar (talk) 07:26, 23 April 2025 (UTC)
• Keep, I did expand the article just before it was nominated for deletion. Per comment, "It goes against our ethics on ADL for a nominator to dictate to the community which guidlines they should not invoke in their rationale/votes", I don't think it's acceptable to pre-empt valid P&G-based arguments in a nominating statement.

Per the WP:RS cited in the article, Bedasso was one of Ethiopia's fastest ever sprinters in the 1970s and is still one of their fastest today, and was one of their only Olympic sprinters. A similar article about an Ethiopian sprinter, Negussie Roba, was nominated for deletion, then sources were found and it became a GA. I think a similar amount of sourcing should exist here, but it would be in Ethiopian newspaper archives that we don't have access to right now. --Habst (talk) 13:12, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is not a reason for keeping. LibStar (talk) 09:25, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

Bedasso was one of Ethiopia's fastest ever sprinters in the 1970s and is still one of their fastest today, and was one of their only Olympic sprinters. This may be true but not reasons for inherent notability. We need actual sources. LibStar (talk) 09:27, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

@LibStar, I agree that OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is not a reason for keeping. That's why we have to base our rationale on the extant coverage, taking into account the types of places we know athletes like this were covered in. We know that the statement about his times and being one of their only Olympic sprinters is true for sure because we have multiple RS confirming it, including several sources cited in the article. --Habst (talk) 19:02, 28 April 2025 (UTC)

• Redirect to Ethiopia at the 1972 Summer Olympics - We don't have sources, as admitted above. We have to have sources to write an article. The redirect ATF preserves page history should sources one day become available. Does not pass WP:GNG, WP:NATH nor WP:BASIC. The NEXIST argument is spurious. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 13:41, 23 April 2025 (UTC)
• Redirect. No evidence of the required IRS SIGCOV sourcing. NEXIST is irrelevant. JoelleJay (talk) 20:25, 23 April 2025 (UTC)
• Redirect per Sirfuboy. Fails WP:SPORTBASIC, prong 5, which mandates in clear language: "All sports biographies . . . must include at least one reference to a source providing significant coverage of the subject, excluding database sources." Here, no such SIGCOV has been presented. A redirect preserves the article history, such that it can be restored if and when SIGCOV is found. The notion that there might (or might not) be SIGCOV of an Ethiopian relay team that did not even finish its preliminary heat in no way trumps the clear and mandatory language of prong 5 quoted above. Cbl62 (talk) 22:19, 23 April 2025 (UTC)
• Redirect per above, fails WP:NSPORTS. Mere participation does not indicate notability. Superlative language that does not amount to WP:SIGCOV does not show notability.

@LibStar and Habst: - WP:NEXIST is a perfectly OK argument, but what it says is that so long as a source/sources giving significant coverage exists, then the topic can be notable even if it is not cited in the article, but you still have to show that the source actually exists. It is not sufficient to simply claim that the topic was really famous and so sources must exist as mere fame does not indicate notability. Similarly it is not enough just to point to the potential existence of possible sources and claim "there must be newspaper coverage". The reality is there weren't many newspapers in 1970's Ethiopia - literacy rates in Ethiopia before 1974 were lower than 10%. What newspapers there were wouldn't necessarily have had detailed biographical coverage of Bedasso but may well (as is very common) have only covered the sports events that Bedasso took part in and only mentioned Bedasso in passing without providing any details about him. However, if anyone wants to get access to the Ethiopian Herald archives that are accessible here: [1] they are welcome to confirm this.

An example of something that might pass WP:NEXIST would be where we know (e.g., from reviews) that a full biography of substantial length of the subject from a reliable and independent publisher exists but we don't have access to it. FOARP (talk) 07:33, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

@FOARP, thank you for your thoughtful comment. I agree that Ethiopian coverage is more difficult to find than that of other Western countries, especially because we don't speak the language.

I don't see any indication that literacy rates were below 10% in 1974. This document shows a literacy rate among rural populations that was low, but the table on page 11 only discusses rural populations. On the other hand the subject is linked to a big city Addis Ababa that would have had more coverage available.

I even agree it's important to scrutinize "coverage" and not just settle for routine race results, but again I don't see why newspapers would not have covered Bedasso in a biographical / analytical manner as they do other sports stars.

Checking the Ethiopian Herald archives would be a great start, but it seems they are only accessible to certain institutions. If you know an access code I would happily check them. Until we do have access, I don't see how we could close this AfD without even checking the most likely venues for coverage, which is part of WP:BEFORE. --Habst (talk) 19:15, 28 April 2025 (UTC)

I disagree that we have to keep articles, that we have already hosted for 8 years without the appropriate sourcing being added, in the hope that sources will turn up eventually. So do our PAGs. Deletion simply isn’t that final: if and when the sources are found, the article can be written. FOARP (talk) 20:29, 28 April 2025 (UTC)

@FOARP, a head's up if you're thinking of investing time into writing further thoughtful detailed responses, the (in)applicability of NEXIST has been explained and demonstrated to Habst in at least 2 dozen AfDs at this point (a sampling: [1]
[2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15]16). It goes nowhere. JoelleJay (talk) 22:58, 28 April 2025 (UTC)

• Redirect to Ethiopia at the 1972 Summer Olympics: Subject does not appear to have the needed WP:SIGCOV to meet the WP:GNG. Redirect as a WP:ATD. Let'srun (talk) 01:42, 26 April 2025 (UTC)