Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2016 September 7: Difference between revisions

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September 7

This is a list of redirects that have been proposed for deletion or other action on September 7, 2016.

The Man That Mother Nature Forgot To Make Good-Looking

The Man That Mother Nature Forgot To Make Good-Looking → Adrian Neville (links · history · stats) [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ]

A one-time insult, not a notable nickname. LM2000 (talk) 22:26, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Not notable. Prefall 22:36, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I would inform the above 2 editors and any below that per Wikipedia:Redirect#When should we delete a redirect? that lack of notability is not listed as one of the 10 "Reasons for deleting". Notability is a consideration for ARTICLE content. Less notable things can be used in redirects without having to be notable enough for an article. Now I will quote 2 of the "Reasons for not deleting" which apply here:
1. They aid searches on certain terms.
2. Someone finds them useful. Hint: If someone says they find a redirect useful, they probably do. You might not find it useful—this is not because the other person is being untruthful, but because you browse Wikipedia in different ways.
Reviewing admins: I think you should discount any "votes" considering that Wikipedia:Polling is not a substitute for discussion. People voicing dissent here should do so in context of policy by referencing the 10 WP:R#DELETE reasons or the 7 WP:R#KEEP reasons. Even though there's more possible reasons to delete than keep redirects, I'm winning 2-0 in terms of actually referencing policy here. I would posit that people are ignoring policy and just treating what is supposed to be "discussion" as WP:POLL/WP:VOTE. The numerous "delete per nom" comments for example, are merely polling/voting, not discussion. Ranze (talk) 03:15, 9 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Ranze, a redirect needn't pass WP:GNG but it also can't be so obscure that nobody would ever go searching for it. This falls under deletion rational #8:If the redirect is a novel or very obscure synonym for an article name, it is unlikely to be useful. It's remarkably obscure, this one-time nickname isn't notable enough for somebody to type into their search bar. It's useless.LM2000 (talk) 03:21, 9 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"so obscure that nobody would ever go searching for it" doesn't apply to many of the things you have nominated. People do go searching for Cryback/Rybotch, for example. It even applies here. Someone reading this January 2014 tweet for example, would have no idea who the name is referring to. It's already one step of research to find out that the man who said it is Tyler Breeze, and even steeper research to find out that Tyler Breeze said that about Adrian Neville in their feud. We save a lot of time for people by simply redirecting it to the wrestler whom the phrase refers to. You're basically making declarations here you can't support. Any unique phrase used by a wrestler is something people are likely to be curious about. This isn't just something some fan called Neville, it's something Tyler called him on live TV, TV that thousands of people watch, so of course people will type in the name, we already can see they did that. Ranze (talk) 03:41, 9 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

So anything unverified accounts write on twitter qualifies as a redirect now? If I call Hillary Clinton "Grandma Crazy" would that qualify as a redirect if I sent it out in a tweet? You have a list of reliable professional wrestling sources linked to the top of your talk page. You know better than this.LM2000 (talk) 04:45, 9 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Not notable.Chris "WarMachineWildThing" ^{Talk to me} 22:38, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Not notable --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 22:50, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per notable. Iazyges (talk) 02:03, 8 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Per nom. ^{(talk page stalker)} CrashUnderride 09:55, 8 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. Not a notable book title. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 14:16, 8 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Book title? Ranze (talk) 03:36, 9 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. JTP ^(talk) 22:10, 8 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Pedrigree/Iazyges/Crash/Angus/JTP again, Wikipedia:Polling is not a substitute for discussion you all appear to be engaged in a bare minimum of word affixation to 'delete' as if to pretend that is discussion. What I observe here is most people are doing this sort of thing and completely ignoring rebuttals I give to the opening argument, which is regularly a fraudulent one which misleads readers and which many of these polling voters appear to take for granted instead of investigating independently. Notability is not required for redirects. WP:RKEEP gives 7 good reasons for having them. Lack of notability isn't mentioned at WP:RDELETE. "Notability" isn't mentioned anywhere at Wikipedia:Redirect/Deletion reasons. People are actively misrepresenting policy by bringing this up as an alleged reason to delete a redirect. Ranze (talk) 03:36, 9 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Dawn of the Altitude Era

Dawn of the Altitude Era → Adrian Neville (links · history · stats) [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ]

Implausible redirect, per consensus at Unicorn Freaks, Iron Man of the WWE, and Madame McMahon, nicknames used once are not useful redirects. LM2000 (talk) 22:23, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Per nom. Prefall 22:36, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Per nom.Chris "WarMachineWildThing" ^{Talk to me} 22:39, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Not notable --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 22:50, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Per nom. ^{(talk page stalker)} CrashUnderride 09:55, 8 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. Unless this was the title of his book, this doesn't make sense to redirect to the person. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 14:17, 8 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. JTP ^(talk) 22:10, 8 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@LM2000: consensus at the other redirects you mention is entirely irrelevant to this. This is not 'used once' it is a slogan he has pushed to sell merch and which his fans push by wearing the merch. Yet again I really doubt you looked into this and are just making malicious assumptions about anything I make you don't immediately recognize.

Pre/War/Crash/Angus/JTP this is not a WP:POLL it is "for discussion" so if you're just going to "per nom" please go away.

HHH Pedrigree this is a slogan associated with Neville through official WWE merchanise, see http://shop.wwe.com/neville-altitude-era-authentic-t-shirt/W09608.html how could you possibly argue this isn't notable?

Admins, please note that none of the 10 WP:RDELETE reasons are given here, while the WP:RKEEP reasons 3 and 5 defend this redirect's existence. Reviewing administrators: please recognize that only actual discussions form a consensus, not polling/voting, and look at more than just the numbers here. Ranze (talk) 04:26, 9 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

There's a thread on ANI on your behavior because you keep doing the same things again and again. I knew this was on a shirt when I nominated it for discussion, it falls under deletion rational #8:If the redirect is a novel or very obscure synonym for an article name, it is unlikely to be useful. LM2000 (talk) 04:40, 9 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The thread YOU made, yes. I'm well aware of your canvassing everywhere possible to try and get people to gang up on me. No, this doesn't fall under number 8. A mass-produced slogan associated with the wrestler is not "very obsure". Here's some more help:

As you can see at http://www.wrestlezone.com/assets/uploads/2015/05/Screenshot-5_24_2015-11_23_19-PM.png the name Neville only occurs in tiny print on the bottom of the left sleeve. Anyone viewing a fan wearing this from the back/front/right would not be able to see it. The "Dawn of the Altitude Era" slogan is very visible on the back though, so the redirect helps someone looking for that slogan get bounced right to the person the shirt is for. Ranze (talk) 05:30, 9 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Big E Jackson

Big E Jackson → Ezekiel Jackson (links · history · stats) [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ]

Not a plausible redirect, not a real nickname. LM2000 (talk) 22:18, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Per nom. Prefall 22:36, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Per nomChris "WarMachineWildThing" ^{Talk to me} 22:40, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Not notable --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 22:50, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Per nom. ^{(talk page stalker)} CrashUnderride 09:55, 8 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. Only forum posts confusing him with Big E Langston, nothing notable. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 14:20, 8 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. JTP ^(talk) 22:10, 8 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I won't contest this. The guy has been called Big Ryck and Big Zeke so I figured noting Ezekiel begins with E the same way Ettore was is harmless. I did find some other people calling him this but probably not enough to convince you. It's not as notable a nickname as the others which I am trying to defend, even though I still maintain it is a harmless redirect to keep. Ranze (talk) 03:02, 9 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Rybotch

Rybotch → Ryback (links · history · stats) [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ]
Cryback → Ryback (links · history · stats) [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ]

Not plausible redirects, not real nicknames. LM2000 (talk) 22:11, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Per nom. Prefall 22:36, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Per nom, sounds like a one time insult.Chris "WarMachineWildThing" ^{Talk to me} 22:41, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Not real nicknames --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 22:50, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Per nom. ^{(talk page stalker)} CrashUnderride 09:55, 8 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Searches result in small business in Texas, and typos for Robotech. Cryback was a short-lived meme that didn't get traction. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 14:21, 8 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. JTP ^(talk) 22:10, 8 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@LM2000: I get the impression that you don't spend much (any?) effort looking for sources before taking it upon yourself on your mission to dig through my edits and try to demonize them. You begin with falsehood, saying that this is not plausible (wrong, both are things Ryback has beein recurringly called) and that they are not real nicknames (also false).

Crash_Underride and HHH Pedrigree are non-neutral parties who have had past disagreements with me so I would encourage any overseeing administrators to discount their support of these falsehoods. JTP and other "per nom" folk who blindly support this falsehood, I would remind you that RFD is not a vote, you are supposed to actually discuss policy and do your own analysis. All 4 of you are now posting incorrect things.

@AngusWOOF: thank you for honestly acknowledging that Cryback is a meme. "Traction" is a relative concept I won't quibble about, but I disagree about it being 'short-lived' considering there is still discussion of it by fans and activity in the hashtag in the present year.

We might dispute on whether they are notable enough nicknames to list on his article, but redirects have a lower burden of proof for notability than something you'd list on a page. Plausibly typos, for example, are made into redirects, but not actually mentioned on the article.

I would remind overseeing editors who might want to embrace this so-called "consensus" (it is not, I detract)

Beginning with the most notable, #Cryback is quite popular, and people still talk about on Reddit and while it did originate as an insult from Jericho used 28 June 2013, it took root and influenced articles about him:

Rybotch similarly has coverage to this day in fan discussion. Angus I'm not sure what search engine you're using to get Robotech typos, but if you Google Rybotch it's all wrestler-related I see on the first page. This nickname has stuck with him since 2012, and recurs every year since then until even now. Is it a notable enough nickname to mention on his page? That's a separate discussion. It doesn't need to be for it to be verified as a nickname associated with him to redirect to his page.

"WWE Raw: Ryback = RYBOTCH Discussion on Tuesday Night AMP". 29 August 2012.

Aside from the podcast, you can see fans calling him this in comments on 5 pages worth of articles. Writers may be hesitant to say that openly out of respect or not wanting to burn bridges or future interviews. Ranze (talk) 02:57, 9 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Ranze, you have the list of reliable wrestling sources plastered at the top of your talk page, yet you share random twitter feeds, reddit, unverified youtube videos, and dirtsheets. I know you know better than this yet you keep making the same mistakes. This is why you've been in conflict with so many in the professional wrestling wikiproject and this is why you'll likely be topic banned from there someday.LM2000 (talk) 03:04, 9 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

LM I notice you conveniently sneak the more notable nickname Cryback under Rybotch's entry. You want a verified YouTube video? Here you go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHfakJwfuUE&t=1m15s Are you going to call THIS tweet "random" too? https://twitter.com/iamjericho/status/351886641301946370 Do you need more than the official YouTube channel of the WWE and the official Twitter account of Chris Jericho to convince you of the worthwhileness of Cryback? Ranze (talk) 05:10, 9 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Internals

Internals → Internality (links · history · stats) [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ]

Internals usually refers to the insides of a machine, right, not to this economics concept. Nominated Internally separately, since these two forms seems to have different usages. Oiyarbepsy (talk) 17:06, 28 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

... or the insides of animals (particularly the entrails). I think the place for that kind of information is wiktionary and a soft redirect is probably the best we could do here. Uanfala (talk)
retarget to the dab page at Internal that already has a Wiktionary link and an entry for the current target. Entrails and the dab at Innards are probably useful additions to the dab as well. Thryduulf (talk) 23:05, 30 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
But internal and internals are different lexical items (with separate headwords in dictionaries) that don't have a lot of overlap in meaning. If a dab page is the solution then it had better be a separate one from Internal. Uanfala (talk) 06:31, 31 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The dab and/or Wiktionary entry could use expanding. One of the first things I think of when I hear "internals" is internal polls, i.e., typically those conducted by political campaigns rather than third-party pollsters. Search results show this isn't US-exclusive either. --BDD (talk) 15:50, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, - Champion (talk) (contribs) (Formerly TheChampionMan1234) 07:54, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Retarget per Thryduulf The dab is vague enough so that none of the entries really address the dictionary definitions. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 14:31, 8 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Idiotia

Idiotia → South Korea (links · history · stats) [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ]

This is Portuguese for "idiot", I don't see how it can refer to South Korea. - Champion (talk) (contribs) (Formerly TheChampionMan1234) 04:41, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 04:45, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nominator. No other occurrences of this word in mainspace, and not suitable as a redirect to idiot per WP:FORRED and WP:WINAD. 210.6.254.106 (talk) 05:27, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Per nom. Iazyges (talk) 05:57, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. Note: This may have been created in a moment of frustration during a game; the creator's user name translates to "Prefectural Kasuga Park conzano baseball field" (Google translate). As it is, it's not useful for anything. — Gorthian (talk) 21:38, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Besides being in a language that has no affinity with its target, it's not an alternate name for the target and is probably borderline vandalism. Steel1943 (talk) 22:25, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - I concur. CoffeeWithMarkets (talk) 21:11, 8 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

其他國家

其他國家 → China (links · history · stats) [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ]

This just means "other countries", even that is not a specifically Chinese concept, and even that is not a Chinese-related topic. - Champion (talk) (contribs) (Formerly TheChampionMan1234) 04:38, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 04:45, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. Same as all the "other x" that we deleted a few months ago. 210.6.254.106 (talk) 05:27, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Iazyges (talk) 05:58, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Keep pejorative term that refers to the country. Valid WP:FORRED as a term used in Greater China. SSTflyer 09:42, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Which is still unhelpful to any readers who were looking for that meaning, as it is unmentioned at the target article (and isn't worthy of mention per WP:WEIGHT). Furthermore it is confusing to readers who were expecting to find something related to the plain meaning. Other similar pejoratives (e.g. 強國) are redlinks. 210.6.254.106 (talk) 10:03, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Besides the WP:FORRED concern, the phrase "other countries" is not exclusive to China for any speaker of any language. Steel1943 (talk) 22:28, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - I agree with the above arguments. CoffeeWithMarkets (talk) 21:11, 8 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 50: / Line 50: @@
 Admins, please note that none of the 10 [[WP:RDELETE]] reasons are given here, while the [[WP:RKEEP]] reasons 3 and 5 defend this redirect's existence. Reviewing administrators: please recognize that only actual discussions form a consensus, not polling/voting, and look at more than just the numbers here. [[User:Ranze|Ranze]] ([[User talk:Ranze|talk]]) 04:26, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
 :There's a thread on ANI on your behavior because you keep doing the same things again and again.  I knew this was on a shirt when I nominated it for discussion, it falls under deletion rational #8:'''If the redirect is a novel or very obscure synonym for an article name, it is unlikely to be useful.''' [[User:LM2000|LM2000]] ([[User talk:LM2000|talk]]) 04:40, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
+::The thread YOU made, yes. I'm well aware of your canvassing everywhere possible to try and get people to gang up on me. No, this doesn't fall under number 8. A mass-produced slogan associated with the wrestler is not "very obsure". Here's some more help:
+::*https://twitter.com/wweneville/status/602886924999659520
+::*http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/582095-get-your-brand-new-altitude-era-neville-merchandise-joey-styles-compares-nxt-to-original-ecw-comments-on-mindless-bloody-violence
+::*http://www.pwmania.com/two-wwe-superstars-celebrating-today-wwe-fans-on-seth-rollins-the-pedigree-jim-ross-neville
+::As you can see at http://www.wrestlezone.com/assets/uploads/2015/05/Screenshot-5_24_2015-11_23_19-PM.png the name Neville only occurs in tiny print on the bottom of the left sleeve. Anyone viewing a fan wearing this from the back/front/right would not be able to see it. The "Dawn of the Altitude Era" slogan is very visible on the back though, so the redirect helps someone looking for that slogan get bounced right to the person the shirt is for. [[User:Ranze|Ranze]] ([[User talk:Ranze|talk]]) 05:30, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
 ====Big E Jackson====