Talk:Assault rifle

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Pre-Sturmgevehr guns[edit]

Literally the Fedorov Avtomat. Also, the XIX century invention of Cei-Rigotti. Those were literally the XM7 rifle-tier "assaulties" in terms of 6.5mm caliber and 5 centimeters long rounds. I mean, the Russian gun, "the avtomat before there even were avtomats" wasn't any heaver than a "tactical"-decorated modern assault rifle: 11 lb loaded or under 9.7 lb unloaded. And the Italian curio was superleggera in that regard: it had the weight of 4.3 kg (9.5 lb). Профессор кислых щей (talk) 16:04, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think it would be worthwhile to add a subsection to the history section to discuss these early "pre-assault" automatic rifles. VQuakr (talk) 20:50, 11 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, I'll make such a subsection one day. By the way, there was Ribeyrolles 1918 Automatic Carbine, with its 8x35 cartridge being really close to 7.92x33. 81.89.66.133 (talk) 10:18, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I got you, made a section just in case StG is (still?) believed to be a "wunderwaffe". Профессор кислых щей (talk) 12:54, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
A-a-a-and it's gone, because someone a really good reaction time. What I wanted is to create a section on rare prototypes, that weren't assault rifles yet were featuring traits of "engineering evolution", so to say. It's bold to say Ribeyrolles 1918 was "the first"; yet it was one of the first experiments. In fact, there should be a paragraph for at least one early caliber that is not rifle-ish yet is not a pistolet-ish either. Профессор кислых щей (talk) 11:31, 12 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I would like to note there WAS the research: one of the sources used says: This is true, but it is worth bearing in mind that, in terms of calibre and muzzle energy, they were in the same class as the present-day 6.8x43 Remington SPC and 6.5x38 Grendel, which are today regarded by many as ideal intermediate cartridges for assault rifles. In other words, the author puts Arisaka 6.5x50SR (not the WWII era 7.7mm namesake round) into the same "intermediate" class as 6.8x43 and Grendel. Профессор кислых щей (talk) 11:42, 15 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I think a gallery-like insert would be nice. Added it atop of the section to not ruin the markup.
DONE. Fyodorov's "Avtomat" now lives in "history" section as a "WWI design". Also. Thank you, Loafiewa and CactiStaccingCrane for hinting what's a quality sourced material and what's not. Профессор кислых щей (talk) 07:08, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 9 June 2023[edit]

Sturmgewehr translates to storm rifle in English not assault rifle. Sturm- storm gewehr- rifle. Request correct translation change. 96.244.147.42 (talk) 23:24, 9 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. BilCat (talk) 23:33, 9 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your post and suggestion. But such is an overly literal and thus inaccurate translation into English. In English such would be a sometimes-used metaphor for "assault" but "assault" is much more accurate translation. Suggest that we close this one out. Sincerely, 23:44, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
As these poor translation request are appearing repeatedly I suggest we create a section on top of the discussion explaining this and block this section from getting archived. disclaimer as usual: cut a foreign word in parts, translate these parts then expect a proper tranlation is in 99.9% of cases a massive fail.--Denniss (talk) 06:22, 10 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

AK-47 partially developed by Hugo Schmeisser[edit]

The article claims that Hugo Schmeisser was on the development team of the AK-47, however the source of this given claim only claims "believed" and "likely"[1] , words that are too weak in my opinion. As the article of Hugo Schmeisser states, the entire design of the AK was made in Degtyaryov Plant before moving to Izhmash in 1948, when serial manufacture had begun for troop trials.

When looking inside of the AK rifle, it can be seen that these are nothing alike, bar the long stroke gas piston. The AK is a rotating bolt weapon with the recoil spring mounted around the recoil spring guide, whilst the StG 44 is a tilting bolt weapon and has its recoil spring in the buttstock, not unlike the buffer tube of an ArmaLite AR-10 or ArmaLite AR-15. If anything, the STG has more in common with the ArmaLite designs than the AK, particularly the disassembly and lower recievers of said weapons.

There was an AK that was very similar to the STG 44, that being the AK-46, discussed in the AK page. The AK-46 was a short stroke weapon and it did have an upper and a lower reciever. However this AK is mechanically speaking more akin to something like an ArmaLite AR-18, most notably the short stroke rotating bolt and the gas tube above the barrel. This weapon however didn't continue further than testing until being completely redesigned to the AK-47.

The only similarity that these weapons share is the long stroke gas piston and the general role of a selective fire rifle meant to be used until ~400 meters. If "influenced" means that one design was adopted before the other, surely the AR series are influenced by the AK, being a mass adopted assault rifle.

As such, why does the article say that the AK had been partially developed by Hugo Schmeisser? BleachedDog (talk) 11:22, 21 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I also disagree with such a claim it took the whole living Schmeisser to make an automatic rifle in post-WWII USSR. In a sense, those guns aren't even similar in look, with the exception of curved long mags. 2A00:1FA0:20F:F43A:0:5F:2C9:6C01 (talk) 20:55, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In fact, guns like Ribeyrolles 1918 used own intermediate cartrid, and there were those funny bottled-necked Winchester cartridges also. 2A00:1FA0:20F:F43A:0:5F:2C9:6C01 (talk) 20:55, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 21 September 2023[edit]

AK partially developed by Hugo Schmeisser

The article claims that Hugo Schmeisser was on the development team of the AK-47, however the source of this given claim only claims "believed" and "likely"[1]. As the article of Hugo Schmeisser states, the entire design of the AK was made in Degtyaryov Plant before moving to Izhmash in 1948, when serial manufacture had begun for troop trials.

When looking inside of the AK rifle, it can be seen that these are nothing alike, bar the long stroke gas piston. The AK is a rotating bolt weapon with the recoil spring mounted around the recoil spring guide, whilst the StG 44 is a tilting bolt weapon and has its recoil spring in the buttstock, not unlike the buffer tube of an ArmaLite AR-10 or ArmaLite AR-15. If anything, the STG has more in common with the ArmaLite designs than the AK, particularly the disassembly and lower recievers of said weapons.

There was an AK that was very similar to the STG 44, that being the AK-46, discussed in the AK page. The AK-46 was a short stroke weapon and it did have an upper and a lower reciever. However this AK is mechanically speaking more akin to something like an ArmaLite AR-18, most notably the short stroke rotating bolt and the gas tube above the barrel. This weapon however didn't continue further than testing until being completely redesigned to the AK-47.

The only similarity that these weapons share is the long stroke gas piston and the general role of a selective fire rifle meant to be used until ~400 meters. If "influenced" means that one design was adopted before the other, surely the AR series are influenced by the AK, being a mass adopted assault rifle.

As such, why does the article say that the AK had been partially developed by Hugo Schmeisser?

https://web.archive.org/web/20210117103742/https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/meet-most-influential-gun-designers-20th-century-173382 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Schmeisser https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47 BleachedDog (talk) 11:34, 21 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. BilCat (talk) 16:38, 21 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
What consensus? We're having a discussion over a case of WP:DUBIOUS: a claim Hugo personally made some edits to AK-47's design. 109.252.65.192 (talk) 19:46, 4 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Well, since you are a retired user, you probably won't mind if this question will be reactivated. Basically, there is an article with WP:RANDY levels of reasoning, hence the likely word of excuse and such. 2A00:1FA0:20F:F43A:0:5F:2C9:6C01 (talk) 21:02, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
kalashnikov.ru has an article on how unrelated the guns are. Comment: Russian "Slyshaly zvon..." phrase is an idiom similar in "Randy in the bush". 2A00:1FA0:20F:F43A:0:5F:2C9:6C01 (talk) 21:06, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]