Talk:Southern Poverty Law Center

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Semi-protected edit request on 2 April 2024

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I am requesting an edit to change all instances of the name "Joseph J. Levin Jr." to a link for his upcoming Wikipedia page, which currently redirects here (Joseph J. Levin Jr.). On Help:Starting a new page, it is suggested that before starting a new page, we first create a red link so that "right from the start, the page will be linked from at least one other place on the wiki."

Given that his most well-known achievement is the creation of the SPLC, and that both other founders have their own pages, it seems that placing the link on this page would be the best place to start. Thank you! Neugeou (talk) 03:53, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: Per MOS:CIRCULAR, wikilinks that redirect back to the current page should not be added. The link can be added after the page has been written. Liu1126 (talk) 11:42, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Poverty Palace"

Is "The organization has also been accused of an overindulgent use of funds, leading some employees to call its headquarters "Poverty Palace".^[1]" due for inclusion in the lead? Or should the bit about "leading some employees to call its headquarters "Poverty Palace"" be removed from the lead? IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 19:10, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Moser, Bob (March 21, 2019). "The Reckoning of Morris Dees and the Southern Poverty Law Center". The New Yorker. Retrieved June 22, 2020. In 1995, the Montgomery Advertiser had been a Pulitzer finalist for a series that documented, among other things, staffers' allegations of racial discrimination within the organization.

Phrase "Lawsuits and criticism against the SPLC"

Not idiomatic. One usually says "criticism OF something". 2A00:23C5:FE1C:3701:8D78:DB04:3DF6:79B4 (talk) 20:29, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lawsuits against, criticisms of. Parallelism issue. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.106.148.231 (talk) 07:03, 8 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, this is worded poorly. Apiquinamir2 (talk) 08:48, 25 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hatewatch

Hatewatch is a project by the SPLC, not a "blog". Recent edits are completely unsupported. Viriditas (talk) 01:11, 22 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hey just a heads up, at the time, Hatewatch was clearly labeled as a blog. It was only very recently they removed that. You can see it in the discussion here and at the archived version of their main page here. That is the problem with them mass changing things, because at the time those sources were put it in was clearly labeled as a blog, now it is still a blog but they took the tag down. So yeah, completely supported and recognized by RSN. Feel free to bring it up there. Also for the record I was restoring status quo, please read WP:BRD and get consensus before reverting to a new version that is not supported. PackMecEng (talk) 01:15, 22 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

You are mistaken and your edits are erroneous. This edit is misleading and erroneous. SPLC currently says that it "monitors and exposes activities of the hard right in the United States". It hasn't used the term "American radical right" for a while.[1] Yet, you keep restoring old versions from 2022. That's not how sourcing works. We use the newest and most relevant sources to write articles. I'm taking this to ANI because it is clear evidence of intentional disruption. Viriditas (talk) 01:19, 22 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Here from the (unnecessary) ANI discussion. Even if it still called itself a blog today, there's no reason for "blog" to be added every time it's mentioned on Wikipedia any more than there is to write "The New York Times (newspaper)" whenever we mention The New York Times. That is, unless you can demonstrate that independent sources typically refer to it by doing that. On that point, none of this sourcing is good. You can verify that something is due by citing it to an independent source. When we consider the outdated sources on top of this, it really feels like these edits aren't constructive. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 🛸 02:09, 22 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

+1 Describe it according to how the most recent independent sources describe it in this article and just call it "Hatewatch" everywhere else. — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 12:16, 22 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I would be down for updating it but it should have something to the effect that the majority of it's history it was a blog and it would be nice if there was a RS describing when it transitioned from a blog to something else. Because from where I stand there is no reason to believe that it has changed. Removing the word blog does not mean it is not a blog. Also for all the other articles that it is used as a source it should note, that at the time of the publication of the article being used as a source, that it was a blog with no editorial oversight. PackMecEng (talk) 16:59, 22 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Removing the word blog does not mean it is not a blog. – Great, then let's remove it from the article as undue. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 🛸 18:25, 22 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

In context of this article what about putting "Hatewatch blog" in parentheses as we do with alternative names? I have no idea when they stopped calling this a blog. Even in 2024 they self identified as a blog [2]. They aren't really clear how they handle content in that section of their website and if it's something like invited contributor content or material that is researched the same as one of their reports. Just dropping the name "blog" but not offering any other evidence that they have changed their operations makes this a bit of a hard thing to report on. It would be OR to say anything more than Hatewatch is also referred to as Hatewatch blog. I don't think how it is handled here should affect how it is handled in individual articles. Springee (talk) 03:01, 22 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Not a blog.[3] Viriditas (talk) 04:17, 22 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

That link goes to David Goldman’s original project at Harvard which he started in 1995. SPLC started their own program with the same name as a newsletter in 1996. It is not clear if Goldman was involved, but he shows up here and there in articles about the SPLC. It became a "blog" on their site in 2009. It no longer identifies a a blog and hasn’t identified as a blog since 2022. A quick look at the current site shows there is no social networking or comments allowed by readers. The content appears to be news, research, and analysis, and is highly professional and journalistic in tone; there is no indication that this site currently meets any of the criteria for a blogging platform, known for its personal and unprofessional tone and feedback from readers. Viriditas (talk) 04:48, 22 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

As of 2024 it was still called a blog by SPLC sources. More importantly, where there any changes associated with the name change? Either way, I don't think we have sourcing for this so it's probably best too use the current name but reference that it was also called hatewatch blog. Springee (talk) 10:47, 22 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

[NYker_Moser_Reckoning_20190325-1] Moser, Bob (March 21, 2019). "The Reckoning of Morris Dees and the Southern Poverty Law Center". The New Yorker. Retrieved June 22, 2020. In 1995, the Montgomery Advertiser had been a Pulitzer finalist for a series that documented, among other things, staffers' allegations of racial discrimination within the organization.

[1]