Talk:United Kingdom
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A1: Reliable sources support the view that the United Kingdom is a single country. This view is shared with other major reputable encyclopedias. There has been a long-standing consensus to describe the UK in this way.
A2: See the article entitled "Terminology of the British Isles". Great Britain is the name of the largest island that the UK encompasses, and is not generally used in source material as the name of the country. Indeed, Britain 2001, the "official reference book" of the United Kingdom produced by the Office for National Statistics for "British diplomatic posts" says in its foreword:
This view is reiterated by the Prime Minister's Office, which states:
A report submitted to the United Nations Economic and Social Council by the Permanent Committe on Geographical Names and the Ordnance Survey states:
There has been a long-standing consensus not to include Great Britain in the lead as an interchangable name of the state.
A2b: Whether Britain should be listed as an alternative name in the lead has been discussed often, most extensively in August 2007 and April 2011; and whether the alternate name Britain should be qualified with "incorrect" in June 2006, with "informally" in September 2006, or with "mistakenly" in January 2011.
A3: This is one of the most common questions raised on this talk page, but consistently, consensus goes against taking that approach. No major reputable source describes the UK in this way. However the history of the formation of the United Kingdom, supported by source material, highlights that England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales are "countries within a country". Please also refer to Q4.
A4: This is the most frequent question raised by visitors to this talk page, and the issue which generates the most debate. However, as a result of a lack of a formal British constitution, and owing to a convoluted history of the formation of the United Kingdom, a variety of terms exist which are used to refer to England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales. Reliable and official sources support use of the word "countries":
On Wikipedia, the term has broadly won preference amongst the editing community (note, however, that a country is not the same as a sovereign state). Also commonplace is the phrase "constituent country, or countries", when referring to the countries as elements of the UK. This phrase, however, is not an actual term; ie Scotland is not a 'constituent country' in itself, but is one of the constituent countries of the UK. The community endeavours to achieve an atmosphere of neutrality and (for the sake of stability) compromise on the various UK naming issues. See also Countries of the United Kingdom for more details about the terms that have been used to describe England, Northern Ireland, Scotland, and Wales.
A5: Widespread confusion surrounds the use of the word "nation". In standard British English, and in academic language, a nation is a social group of two or more people, and not a division of land. This is also the approach taken in the nation article, and across Wikipedia (for example, the English people and the Québécois are described as "nations", reflecting real world practice). The term Home Nations is generally used only in sporting contexts. It is not used in any major reputable sources outside of sport, and is not the approach taken by any other encyclopedia.
A6: This view is supported by some sources, but the current consensus amongst the editing community is aligned to a greater body of work which describes both Northern Ireland and Wales as countries. However, the terms are not all mutually exclusive: a country can also be a principality or a province, and these terms are mentioned throughout Wikipedia as alternative names in afternotes.
A7: Northern Ireland has not had its own unique, government sanctioned flag since its government was prorogued in 1972, and abolished in 1973 under the Northern Ireland Constitution Act 1973. During official events, the British government uses the Union Flag — the flag of the United Kingdom — and this is the only flag used by the government in Northern Ireland. The consensus is to reflect this in the article with a note.
A8: Again, Wikipedia editors often disagree on the acceptability and suitability of various terms and phrases. This term is not favoured by a number of Wikipedia editors, and is currently not used in the introduction both to simplify the status quo, and also to discourage edit warring. |
This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
United Kingdom was one of the Geography and places good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10
11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38
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Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 15 January 2024[edit]
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Something that has changed about the anthem it used to be "God Save the King", but now it's "God Save the Queen". 50.86.215.230 (talk) 19:51, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 1 February 2024[edit]
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Lion1010NT (talk) 22:43, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
I need to edit a mistake on the 3rd section also add a section on medieval times.
Not done: this is not the right page to request additional user rights. You may reopen this request with the specific changes to be made and someone may add them for you. PianoDan (talk) 22:57, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
Conversion in total area[edit]
Hello, I am Cleter, and I would like to begin by stating that the conversion of the land area in the UK reads as follows:
The total area of the United Kingdom is 94,060 square miles (243,610 km2), with an estimated 2022 population of nearly 67 million people.
I suggest the following change in accordance to Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Dates_and_numbers#Unit_choice_and_order which includes:
- In non-scientific articles with strong ties to the United Kingdom, the primary units for most quantities are metric or other internationally used units, except that:
- UK engineering-related articles, including those on bridges and tunnels, generally use the system of units in which the subject project was drawn up (but road distances are given in imperial units, with a metric conversion – see next bullet);
- the primary units for distance/length, speed and fuel consumption are miles, miles per hour, and miles per imperial gallon (except for short distances or lengths, where miles are too large for practical use);
- the primary units for personal height and weight are feet/inches and stones/pounds;
- imperial pints are used for quantities of draught beer/cider and bottled milk;
As you can see, none of these circumstances are applicable to the article. Therefore, I request that the sentence in green be readjusted to this (including the 2 sources):
The total area of the United Kingdom is 243,610 square kilometres (94,060 mi2), with an estimated 2022 population of nearly 67 million people.
🅲🅻🅴🆃🅴🆁 (a word) 03:58, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
- Given area is a function of distances, I don't think the use of square miles is out of line with that MoS even if not specifically mentioned. CMD (talk) 10:19, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
- One difficulty is that all ONS statistics (along with the OS, the only genuine authority on area measurements in the UK) are metric, both for Standard Area Measurements and density. You're absolutely right of course—the MoS means that the figure should be imperial first. But nonetheless, it always feels to me a little dishonest that Wikipedia presents British area measurements as though the statistic is imperial and that Wiki is converting it to metric. When in fact the opposite is true. Dgp4004 (talk) 12:53, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
- @Cleter: I agree with @Chipmunkdavis. I've lived in the country for some time. We're used to square metres and hectares for small measurements, but larger areas are mostly spoken of in square miles (or Isle of Wights or Wales). I suspect this is because road distances, which are a practical yardstick for envisaging a large area, are stated in miles. Bazza (talk) 10:53, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
@117PXL[edit]
@117PXL: You seem to misunderstand "bias" and "neutrality" as it operates on Wikipedia. Please read WP:BRD, self-revert and discuss your edit here. DeCausa (talk) 12:19, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
- @117PXL: when you come off your block, put forward your arguments here. If you revert again without getting consensus support first you will just get a longer block. DeCausa (talk) 23:43, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
- Apologies, I didn’t realise I would need a consensus for removing the image because I thought the bias was obvious. I will explain my thoughts…
- In Northern Ireland the pro Irish community speak Irish (Ulster-Irish) and the pro British community speak Ulster-Scots, as well as speaking English.
- There are signs in Northern Ireland that are translated into both languages, here are some examples I found:
- https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Multilingual_sign_Department_Culture_Leisure_Arts_Northern_Ireland.jpg
- https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Derry_Guildhall_Nameplate_2013_09_17.jpg
- https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Looking_for_the_%22Cludgies%22%5E_-_geograph.org.uk_-_637820.jpg
- As you can see the ‘Department of Culture, Arts and Leisure’ is translated into both languages.
- These examples show no bias, but do highlight division, so I thought it would be wiser to remove the image, as leaving it, could annoy the pro British community.
- All thoughts are welcome. 117PXL (talk) 21:26, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks. First of all whether it would "annoy the pro British community" is irrelevant and not a factor that would or could be taken into account on Wikipedia. See WP:NOTCENSORED. I think that sort of thinking has led you to misunderstand neutrality here. It's not about "balancing" conflicts - see WP:FALSEBALANCE which is not exactly on point here but is related. I don't see any "bias" in the pic you wanted to remove for a number of reasons. Ultimately it's just an instance of a multilingual sign in the UK. That's all. Having said that, the pics that you have linked to are an even better illustrations. I wouldn't have a problem with any of those. The other problem with your edit was cluttering of the Topography section with 4 pics. It's not 'bias' just to have pics from 2 countries - unnecessary clutter is a much more significant issue. DeCausa (talk) 22:34, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
- @117PXL: I see you went ahead with this edit, which constitutes another revert. The above was just my opinion - I wouldn't say that is a new consensus particularly as another editor reverted you too. You've just come off a block for edit-warring the removal of the pic. Whilst the edit is ok with me, you run the risk of being re-blocked. DeCausa (talk) 20:03, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
- The text on File:Derry Guildhall Nameplate 2013 09 17.jpg is much harder to see in thumbnail view than that on File:Bilingual welcome sign Newry.jpg, so I disagree with 117PXL's replacement of the latter with the former (which I see has now been reverted). Cordless Larry (talk) 20:35, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
- Sorry didn't see the latest comment. But I don't think we should have the previous photo on there. 117PXL (talk) 21:14, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
- I understand the Wikipedia rules and I understand the image doesn't look as attractive from affar. But this is the main UK page and there are two communities in Northern Ireland that have to work together. There is a Welsh image if the contrast is the issue...
- https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Welcome_sign_Llandrindod.jpg 117PXL (talk) 21:22, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
- Is everyone happy with the Welsh one? 117PXL (talk) 21:47, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
- The text on File:Derry Guildhall Nameplate 2013 09 17.jpg is much harder to see in thumbnail view than that on File:Bilingual welcome sign Newry.jpg, so I disagree with 117PXL's replacement of the latter with the former (which I see has now been reverted). Cordless Larry (talk) 20:35, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
- @117PXL: I see you went ahead with this edit, which constitutes another revert. The above was just my opinion - I wouldn't say that is a new consensus particularly as another editor reverted you too. You've just come off a block for edit-warring the removal of the pic. Whilst the edit is ok with me, you run the risk of being re-blocked. DeCausa (talk) 20:03, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks. First of all whether it would "annoy the pro British community" is irrelevant and not a factor that would or could be taken into account on Wikipedia. See WP:NOTCENSORED. I think that sort of thinking has led you to misunderstand neutrality here. It's not about "balancing" conflicts - see WP:FALSEBALANCE which is not exactly on point here but is related. I don't see any "bias" in the pic you wanted to remove for a number of reasons. Ultimately it's just an instance of a multilingual sign in the UK. That's all. Having said that, the pics that you have linked to are an even better illustrations. I wouldn't have a problem with any of those. The other problem with your edit was cluttering of the Topography section with 4 pics. It's not 'bias' just to have pics from 2 countries - unnecessary clutter is a much more significant issue. DeCausa (talk) 22:34, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 24 February 2024[edit]
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update first minster post for northern irealand Saltcoats123 (talk) 15:01, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
- @Saltcoats123: What do you want changed? Read the instructions in the template which you inserted:
Bazza 7 (talk) 15:44, 24 February 2024 (UTC)"Please change X" is not acceptable and will be rejected; the request must be of the form "please change X to Y".
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 25 February 2024[edit]
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Under "History - Postwar 20th Century" it is stated that the UK was a founding member of today's EU. It was not. The UK was not a signatory of the Treaty of Rome and therefore not a founding member of the EEC (present-day EU). In fact, its request to join the bloc was vetoed by France, twice. Please correct this mistake. Pandrej01 (talk) 22:22, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
- Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the
{{Edit extended-protected}}
template. It doesn't say it was founding member of the EEC which came into being in 1957. It says it was a founding member of the European Union which was a different entity (albeit a successor) that came into being in 1993 and which the UK was a founding member. It doesn't seem to be incorrect. DeCausa (talk) 22:29, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
Rare Book[edit]
The Orchard Pavilion by Arthur Christopher Benson.1914 1st edition. Leather bound and Gold embossed. Printed by Ballantyne,Hanson &Co. Edinburgh. Darlene Mumford (talk) 22:21, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
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