User talk:Michael D. Turnbull

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Question from La-provence-wood on User:La-provence-wood (12:10, 27 December 2021)[edit]

I need some help in getting this article published. Let me know what I need to do to format it correctly and get it right for Wikipedia. When I try to publish it I can’t find it online. Let me know how to best process it so it can be published. Thanks! --La-provence-wood (talk) 12:10, 27 December 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@La-provence-wood: You have made a bit of a mess, which is not surprising because you are a new editor here and you have plunged straight in to try to create an article, which is incredibly difficult until you've learned the ropes: a bit like trying to compose a symphony before you've learned how to play any musical instrument. Firstly, you need to "blank" your own User Page at User:La-provence-wood. That's not a place to draft a new article, just a place to tell other editors here how you intend to contribute to the encyclopaedia (see WP:USER). Before doing that, you need to incorporate any of the useful stuff from that page (e.g. the references) into the draft article at Draft:Paul Stephen Boyington, which you don't seem to have touched for nearly two months. That is the correct location for new articles that are to be considered for inclusion in Wikipedia and the only place you should continue to add material about him. Once the draft is ready for review, there is a button to submit it. I also notice that you have other part-drafts at User:La-provence-wood/sandbox and User:La-provence-wood/Sample page, which is why I'm calling this a mess! Stick to the single draft and make edits there to progressively develop it. Be aware that you are trying to write about a living person and as such you MUST meet all the rules stated at WP:BLP, especially the one that says All quotations and any material challenged or likely to be challenged must be supported by an inline citation to a reliable, published source. I will add some general links to your Talk Page at User talk:La-provence-wood which includes help on this.
Next, a word about publication. You will have seen how you need to use the "Publish changes" button to save what you have written on to the page you are editing. The word "publish" is not used in the sense that what you have written will end up being indexed by search engines like Google. Talk pages, sandboxes and draft space are not indexed by these search engines; only articles in Main Space (the actual encyclopaedia) get indexed. The meaning of "publish" is that what you have saved can be found by anyone who knows where to look: in your case I found everything you had done by navigating to Special:Contributions/La-provence-wood and I could click onto each page from there.
Finally, some advice that you may not like. Postpone trying to get the draft about PSB accepted for at least several weeks. Meanwhile try to improve some of the 6 million+ articles already available, perhaps looking at those in topic areas that interest you. That way, you'll learn how things work here and may even enjoy making contributions. Persisting with a draft that doesn't meet the expected standards is likely to be very frustrating as the experienced editors who review new material (I'm not one of them) can be quite harsh. Good luck! Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:53, 27 December 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Michael D. Turnbull, that user page User:La-provence-wood still contains the article/biography draft. (talk) 06:00, 2 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@IP editor. That's not really my problem to fix. The editor in question has made no edits at all since December 2021 and may have abandoned their account. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:40, 2 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Michael D. Turnbull Should one of us blank that user page? David10244 (talk) 06:14, 27 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@David10244 We are not an admins, so the most we can do is blank the page but the information would still be present in the page history. I can't see the point of doing that: the page in question would be better if in a sandbox or as a draft but it's not doing much harm where it is and in general it is bad etiquette to touch other editor's User Pages without their consent (see WP:NOBAN). If you felt someone's page was so bad that it should be dealt with by an admin, you would have to contact one of those either directly on their own Talk Page or via, say, the Teahouse. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:47, 27 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Michael D. Turnbull I'll leave it; thanks for clarifying the policy. I see notes that some editors will blank a user page, but from what you said, I presume they are admins. David10244 (talk) 03:56, 28 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The imdb issue we discussed[edit]

Wikipedia:Help_desk/Archives/2022_February_9#Links_to_imdb_that_looks_like_wikilinks. I asked for more opinions at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Film/Archive_79#Masking_imdb_links_as_wikilinks. I'm going to start removing some, if you want to join in, please do. It's not pressing. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:43, 21 February 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I'm starting with imdbname using [1], you could start with imdbtitle [2] if you want. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:48, 21 February 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Yes, Gråbergs Gråa Sång, I'll do the imdbtitles, although I may not be able to do many for a couple of days owing to other commitments. Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:38, 21 February 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I don't plan on working very quickly myself. Sometimes there's 1, sometimes there's 40. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:06, 21 February 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
There are times when it's reasonable to convert an EL to a ref, but imdb is almost never a good ref on WP. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:37, 22 February 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yes, Gråbergs Gråa Sång, I'm becoming more aggressive as I gain some experience with these and may revisit a few I've already looked at. Mike Turnbull (talk) 18:18, 22 February 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I've come across a few like [3] with a lot of imdb-links and the basic thought seems to be that these are the next best thing to a wikilink. I think it's mostly a leftover from earlier WP-thinking, those links were in the article in 2012. What I haven't been doing when removing is checking if there is a corresponding WP-article today. There may be some tool around that can suggest wikilinks, but it's nothing I have used. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:59, 23 February 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
[4] This was an interesting version. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:39, 23 February 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Gråbergs Gråa Sång By accident, when I was working on this diff I realised that there is a {{IMDb name}} template which renders names as proper external links and the corresponding {{IMDb episode}} one for titles. So [[imdbname:3940507|Robert Roldan]], rendering as Robert Roldan can be converted to {{IMDb name|3940507|Robert Roldan}}, rendering as Robert Roldan at IMDb. That template is already used on ~ 145,000 pages, so I don't think we can expunge it but we can certainly make our current clean-up easier if it is appropriate to keep the IMDb link. Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:07, 24 February 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Yeah, those are what should be used in the EL-section, I've converted a few I found there too. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:51, 24 February 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Gråbergs Gråa Sång: I'm pleased to report that, following a few days of intense work, I've repaired all the imdb title issues with the exception of this mess I'm still working on. I'll move on to assisting you with the names. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:52, 8 March 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks for the notice! I've been distracted from "my" list lately, but end is in sight. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:06, 8 March 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Just to say that all are  Done now. I've put the query links at the top of this section so I can check for future problems as they occur. Gråbergs Gråa Sång Do you think we should include the "done" into the archive pages (probably against archive policy?) for others to note, or report the clean-up elsewhere? It would be nice to know why the [[imdbname]] stuff works and how to stop it working, as the equivalent template versions seem perfectly acceptable for anyone who really needs them. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:33, 10 March 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks for good cooperation (as in doing most of the work). After reading your message I checked, and found 2 new ones I dealt with. My understanding of Wikipedia:Help_desk/Archives/2022_February_9#Links_to_imdb_that_looks_like_wikilinks is that this is not a WP thing, it's a MediaWiki thing, and may actually have legit uses elsewhere, though here it just seems annoying. If I made my own wiki about something, perhaps I'd think they were just dandy. Possibly other WP:s don't have our EL rules, and editors bring their habits to en-WP.
I'm afraid I don't get "include the "done" into the archive pages" perhaps you could show me with a test edit? On reporting, we could mention it at WP:FILM and WP:TV, perhaps add something at Wikipedia:Citing_IMDb#Inappropriate_uses? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:12, 10 March 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I just meant that I could add a statement that we had fixed all the instances found to date on the page Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Film/Archive_79#Masking_imdb_links_as_wikilinks. However, your idea is much better, Gråbergs Gråa Sång. By placing something in that essay, we can hope people will take note and can quote it ourselves when we gently chide folk on their talk page for continuing to use this sort of link ;-) Will you make the addition? Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:23, 10 March 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ah! I'll do it, we'll see what happens. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:28, 10 March 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Btw, did you get any talkback/pushback while doing this? I've had none. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:32, 29 March 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Gråbergs Gråa Sång No I think there was one case only of a revert, where I subsequently explained why we were doing what we were doing and in several other cases people clicked to "Thank" me for the edits. Overall a very useful exercise. I did end up wondering why Wikipedia hosts so many poor articles about movies and movie "stars". IMDb itself may be a better place for a lot of this (i.e. if it were up to me I'd make our notability requirements much stronger, or at least apply them more strictly). Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:46, 29 March 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Gråbergs Gråa Sång: OMG! There are literally dozens of imdbtitle instances again now (see search 2 above in this section). There was just one imdbname when I checked, which I fixed today. I'll restart the name cleanup asap: do you want to help? This time I think we'll need to post some sort of message on the Talk Page of anyone we notice has done this more than once in the current set. I'll compose something and post it here for you to copy if you like.... Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:45, 11 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Suggested notification:

Hello! Please stop stop using the imdbtitle link as I noticed you did at foo. The reasons for not using that type of link are explained at WT:WikiProject_Film/Archive 79#Masking imdb links as wikilinks. There is a template {{imdb title}} which can be used in the external links section of articles. Thanks. Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:53, 11 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Yep 4 dozens atm. Sure, I'll dig in. Message looks good. There's also WP:IMDB/BLP but it's not as explanatory. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:59, 11 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
OK, Well  Done! Now I'm going to bed.... Mike Turnbull (talk) 21:56, 11 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Possibly something else to comb through:[5]. Some like adding spotify in a similar manner to imdbtitel, but at least they show as EL. Still, yuk. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:53, 11 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Gråbergs Gråa Sång We'll have to find a bigger comb! I looked at the first example Heavyweight (podcast) and it alone has a huge set of open.spotify references. I think we (i.e. you!) need to raise the issue elsewhere. I looked at the archive in WP:RSN and couldn't find anything specific, although there were some comments about Spotify in general. Mike Turnbull (talk) 22:01, 11 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
If you check my edithistory today you'll see I found a real imdb-enthusiast. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:38, 12 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Also Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Spotify. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:46, 12 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Gråbergs Gråa Sång: Interesting that after you raised this at the RSN, User:Citation bot cleaned up Heavyweight (podcast) in this diff so that it no longer appears on your hitlist. So invoking that on the pages in question will remove most if not all of the problems. I'll try Anders (singer) in a moment to see if this works there.... Yup, it did! Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:26, 14 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It doesn't work with them all but the worst ones (the totally bare URL within a citation) are tidied up fairly well. Where the bot fails, it does nothing and the article will still be on your hitlist. There may be a case for doing a dummy edit to indicate in the page history that the bot was tried and further action is still needed. Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:23, 14 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Slightly off-topic, but I'm learning some interesting search-fu at Wikipedia:Help_desk#What_links_here. Apparently Trappist the monk is the one to ask. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:05, 16 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Just killed another dozen. Interestingly, this [6] worked. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:18, 25 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thanks, Gråbergs Gråa Sång. I had by coincidence checked for them today and was going to go on a purge this evening. So now I'll have to do something else :-) Mike Turnbull (talk) 19:22, 25 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'm guessing you're also trimming these now and then. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:43, 17 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Gråbergs Gråa Sång Yes, I continue to take a look at the search output every now and again when I feel like it: see my User Page. I assume you are doing the same but no worries if not.... Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:49, 17 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ah. I have actually been going to this thread when I wanted those links. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:31, 17 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Question from Jcjbishop on Alf Bishop (footballer, born 1886) (16:44, 2 June 2022)[edit]

hello, I want to change the title of this page however the I cannot find the move function. --Jcjbishop (talk) 16:44, 2 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi Jcjbishop and welcome to Wikipedia. You won't have the "move" function available until you have more days+edits to your name (I forget exactly how many!). I suggest you use the Talk Page of the article at Talk:Alf Bishop (footballer, born 1886) to make the suggestion of why you think the page should be moved, pinging a few of the other editors who have contributed to that article in the past to see if you can get a consensus for the move to your suggested title. One of the reasons the page has this title is that there is also an Alf Bishop (footballer, born 1902) and another Alf Bishop (see disambiguation page linked). Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:31, 2 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Jcjbishop: I see now that your reason for wanting to move the article to a new title was because the old one had the incorrect date of birth, which (assuming the 1884 date is correct, which is NOT what the article linked in the external links section says!) would not have been controversial. Anyway, you seem to have done the move correctly now, so well done for that.... are you by any chance a descendant of his? I would caution that you need to provide sources for anything you add to the article, as things you "know" from, say, family connections are not allowed: we call that "original research" and Wikipedia has strict rules to forbid that (see WP:NOR). It must be possible for readers to WP:Verify everything by reading the quoted published sources. Mike Turnbull (talk) 09:06, 3 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi Mike, I am Alfs great grandson and everything I have written on his page is true. Recently I have been contacting all of his former clubs and they have given me all of his appearances, goals and career moments. A few of the personal details in his early life have been passed down through my family. I will attempt to quote everything I can Jcjbishop (talk) 10:46, 3 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Jcjbishop A couple of stylistic comments on the article. First, you need to pay attention to WP:LEAD which emphasises that the first part (before the contents box) should summarise the important points from the main article and not be the sole place where something is mentioned. I'm not sure why you don't simply use the past tense: I find the repeated use of phrases such as "he would retire from football in 1921" (my emphasis) odd when you can just say "he retired...", or "which would be his final season" instead of "which was....". Finally, given that the article has had no readers at all in the past 90 days (excepting us very recently), it is no big deal but please be aware that you have a conflict of interest which you should really declare on the article's Talk Page. Wikipedia is (to some people's surprise) more interested in what can be verified than it is on the WP:TRUTH. I suggest you read these linked pages carefully. I hope you will continue to contribute to other topics about which you are interested. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:05, 3 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Michael D. Turnbull Hello, I was stalking the talk pages of a few editors I respect, such as you, based on answers on the help desks etc. I see that this article discussed here, Alf_Bishop_(footballer,_born_1884), has only 2 inline citations and one general reference. After the editor said everything I have written on his page is true ... I have been contacting all of his former clubs and they have given me all of his appearances, goals and career moments. A few of the personal details in his early life have been passed down through my family, it looks like he failed to take your advice. I'm fairly new; should I do anything? Feel free, of course, to take any action you think is right. Thanks. David10244 (talk) 06:32, 27 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@David10244 I can't say whether the information in that article is extracted from the ENFA archive, which is paywalled, or was what we call original research (not allowed). The article itself gets only about 2 views a day, suggesting it is not very important but it is hardly controversial and would probably survive a deletion discussion. You could take up any concerns directly with Jcjbishop via their Talk Page or the article's Talk Page. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:56, 27 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'll leave that alone too; it just doesn't look right with so few inline citations. I'm sure it won't be accepted like that. David10244 (talk) 03:59, 28 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@David10244 The article has been in mainspace since 2008. The discussion here on my Talk Page relates to it being improved by his great grandson recently. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:20, 28 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Oh, obviously, you are right. I don't know how I missed that. David10244 (talk) 06:17, 10 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Question from Krishnakumar1979123 on Rahul Easwar (20:31, 9 August 2022)[edit]

Rahul's Tv show is Around the world in 30 minutes... How can i edit and create an article about the program? --Krishnakumar1979123 (talk) 20:31, 9 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi Krishnakumar1979123 and welcome to Wikipedia editing. Writing articles is really tough when you are a beginner here. Most experienced editors will advise you to try to improve existing articles first as you get to know about the policies and guidelines. For example, I see that there's an article Malayalee House, about a show Easwar was involved in, which is marked as being in need of a lot of improvement. Can you help there? Or one of the other articles about Safari TV shows listed there? If you really want to try to start from scratch with a new article, make sure you use the WP:AFC process (instructions at that link) and begin drafting with the sole intention of showing the topic's notability as a television show in Wikipedia's rather special meaning of the word "notability". In practice, this means that you need to find sources that are reliable and independent of the show. So, has it been discussed and reviewed in quality publications that have editorial oversight? Find about three such sources and base your draft entirely on what they say. Don't use blogs, twitter, or social media comments, only professional journalism. Make sure you read the main advice about article creation, especially the bit about citations. I hope this helps! Good luck. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:23, 10 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

A barnstar for you![edit]

Citation Barnstar Hires.png The Citation Barnstar
Thank you so much for fixing the references on the sandbox, and as well as the information you gave me about DOI's and what I could do in the future in order to help me site sources. I also left a message to your response on my talk page talking about which I should use to help site the sources (the citation buttons and the download you were talking about). Rugoconites Tenuirugosus (talk) 13:58, 12 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Question from Lica.marty on Wikipedia:Protection policy (15:30, 16 August 2022)[edit]

Dear Mentor I have reliable sources that I can add, because in this article there is a misinformation, that serves to russian propaganda. The part that Stepan Bandera was collaborating with nazi Germany is a lie as his movement actually were against Nazi Germany and resisted both to Soviet Union and Germany. I believe this is a harmful misinformation that has to be edited I can provide reliable resources that can prove mistakes in this article. Please advice the steps how can we work on it. --Lica.marty (talk) 15:30, 16 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hello Lica.marty. You have recently created an account here, so welcome! I'm afraid that the article on Stepan Bandera is, like many articles from that era, quite controversial and editors need to be particularly careful to ensure they discuss differences of opinion while assuming good faith with others who may disagree with you. As you have already realised, we base the encyclopaedia on what other reliable sources have said, not what we may personally believe. Occasionally, different sources give contradictory opinions, in which case we try to maintain a neutral point of view and perhaps quote from both sides of any dispute. I am no expert on Ukraine but I can see that the current version of the article uses many sources, and that the balance of what appears within the text has been subject to much debate at Talk:Stepan Bandera, which is the correct venue. Please read that carefully (including its archives) to see if others have already discussed your specific concerns. Then you can comment and provide your sources (which do not have to be in English), bearing in mind that the sole objective is to improve Wikipedia, not to engage in heated disputes with others. Your personal views are irrelevant (as are those of other editors): only external already-published material can be the basis for what is written here. So make your points carefully and good luck! Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:58, 16 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Question from Soufiane67 (00:11, 17 August 2022)[edit]

Hello How can I create a new page --Soufiane67 (talk) 00:11, 17 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Soufiane67 I've added some useful links to your own Talk Page, so you'll be able to find them easily. I would advise you to start by working to improve existing articles on topics that interest you. Creating a new article (we use the word "page" only for non-article places like Talk Pages) is extremely difficult before you have grasped the basics of editing and can lead to disappointment, but of course it isn't forbidden if you wish to do that. Read WP:UPYES if you want to create a User Page where you would tell others a little about yourself and what you intend to contribute to Wikipedia. Good luck. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:40, 17 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

DYK for Rana X. Adhikari[edit]

Updated DYK query.svg

On 25 August 2022, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Rana X. Adhikari, which you recently nominated. The fact was ... that it was Caltech experimental physicist Rana X. Adhikari's idea to build a gravitational-wave observatory in India? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Rana X. Adhikari. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Rana X. Adhikari), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cwmhiraeth (talk) 00:03, 25 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Board of Trustees election[edit]

Thank you for supporting the NPP initiative to improve WMF support of the Page Curation tools. Another way you can help is by voting in the Board of Trustees election. The next Board composition might be giving attention to software development. The election closes on 6 September at 23:59 UTC. View candidate statement videos and Vote Here. MB 03:53, 5 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Question from Meritkosy on Aba North (04:41, 7 September 2022)[edit]

Hello, Please how can I delete an image from an article? Thank you. --Meritkosy (talk) 04:41, 7 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi @Meritkosy. The only image that seems to have been in Aba North is its location map in the infobox and this appears correct according to my lookup on Google maps. So what image did you want to remove? Or did you mean to add one? In either case it is a question of locating the image on Wikimedia Commons and then following the instructions at WP:PIC to get them into the article. By all means ask me for further help if you need it. Best wishes. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:31, 7 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you so much Mike. That was really helpful.
Am grateful for the assistance. Meritkosy (talk) 03:02, 9 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Question from Hilal9695 (19:03, 12 September 2022)[edit]

i want to create wikepedia page --Hilal9695 (talk) 19:03, 12 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

(by talk reader) @Hilal9695: Since you are a new editor, I don't think you should start editing by trying to create a new article. Instead, you might go through our tutorial material and learn how to edit existing articles. Chris Troutman (talk) 19:16, 12 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Question from Hilal9695 on Help:Getting started (19:12, 12 September 2022)[edit]

hello talk to me --Hilal9695 (talk) 19:12, 12 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

(by talk reader) @Hilal9695: This is not a chatroom; Michael has not edited, yet, today and might not reply for some time. Chris Troutman (talk) 19:17, 12 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Hilal9695 Hello Hilal and welcome to Wikipedia. You seem determined to create an article about Syed Hilal Mujeebi Razzaqui. May I ask if this is you and you are aiming for an autobiography? There are some important considerations you should be aware of. It is Wikipedia policy that all biographies of living people be fully backed up by inline citations that confirm all factual statements from already-published relaible sources. Please read all the linked advice before proceeding and also why writing about yourself is rarely sensible. If I have misunderstood what you are trying to do, then please tell me more and ask any additional questions by posting again here. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:21, 13 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

A cup of tea for you![edit]

Meissen-teacup pinkrose01.jpg TY for your help. Moops T 14:03, 14 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Question from Rukie.5 (22:11, 18 September 2022)[edit]

how was namibia coloniized --Rukie.5 (talk) 22:12, 18 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hello @Rukie.5 and welcome to Wikipedia editing. That's not really the sort of question which the mentorship scheme is intended for. I'm here to help you learn how to contribute to the encyclopaedia and in a moment I'll add some items to your Talk Page with links that you should read. As to Namibia, it was colonized by the Germans in 1884, when it was know as German South West Africa. Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:08, 19 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Identifying DOI's[edit]

I've been searching for about an hour now looking for the DOI for this PDF file and I can't seem to find any information about its DOI, I'm using in order to find its DOI since that's what came up when I searched "how to identify a PDF's DOI" (which is how I get this information). Is there anything helpful in particular I can do to find this PDF's DOI? Because I'm using it as a reference for Draft:Sun_sorb but I think I managed to get the other reference's into place correctly. Yours sincerely Rugoconites Tenuirugosus (talk) 19:03, 19 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Rugoconites Tenuirugosus That's not the sort of document that has a DOI, as it is part of a manufacturer's catalogue, not a journal or book. Based on the manufacturer's name, I think it is an old and out-of-date publication, since I don't see it on their UK website located here. Looking at your draft, I think you will have a hard time persuading the reviewers that the topic is notable, since to do that you need citations from WP:INDEPENDENT sources, which manufacturers obviously are not. Also, your image may be subject to copyright issues since you seem to have grabbed it from a website. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:14, 20 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Alright, thank you for the information. Rugoconites Tenuirugosus (talk) 15:38, 20 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I've found out that "SUN POOL PRODUCTS" (which are the makers of the 'Sun sorb') have their own website, the link to the Sun Sorb page is Could this be used as a reliable source? Since it's the website made by the company that make the Sun Sorbs. Rugoconites Tenuirugosus (talk) 19:47, 21 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Rugoconites Tenuirugosus Yes, we can cite such websites as reliable for simple facts about their products BUT they are obviously not WP:INDEPENDENT so don't help establish the notability of the product. Also, note that they are claiming copyright for all the contents of the website such as the images, as I would expect. Mike Turnbull (talk) 21:15, 21 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Question from ArtFace12 (07:19, 29 October 2022)[edit]

I've created a mini wikipedia page, but it hasn't launched it on tge internet. --ArtFace12 (talk) 07:19, 29 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@ArtFace12 Hi, and welcome to Wikipedia editing. I assume that you are Joey Lowe since that's what you say on your User Page. It is acceptable to tell other Wikipedia editors about yourself and what area of the encyclopaedia you intend to contribute to on such a page: see WP:UPYES for the details of what can be placed there. On the other hand Draft:Joey Lowe is totally unacceptable as a potential article (not "page") for inclusion in the main encyclopaedia. We frown on autobiograpy (please read that link for why) and there is an absolute requirement that any biography of a living person follow the policies at WP:BLP, which means they must have inline citations to relaible sources so that readers can verify all the facts stated. Wikipedia is a serious project and is not social media as is explained at WP:NOT. Please stick to adding information on topics about which you are knowledgeable and interested and you should enjoy contributing. In a moment, I'll add some links on your Talk Page which will assist you in understanding how to go about things. Good luck. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:42, 29 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Question from Marleeashton (05:03, 30 October 2022)[edit]


So I was wondering about the process of adding logos to state agencies - I can't find any that have creative commons licenses but I'd think that it would be implied given that it's a publicly owned government type of deal.. would it be ok to upload something like this to wikimedia commons? --Marleeashton (talk) 05:03, 30 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi @Marleeashton. The main guidance on logos is given at WP:LOGOS. Some are entirely free of restrictions (as explained at that link) and others can be used on the English Wikipedia under our fair use provisions. To give better advice, I'd need to see which specific logo you have in mind, and for which article. Can you provide a link to a URL which includes the logo? Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:13, 30 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Here’s the link,

It’s just under the icon.

Hoping to add it to california coastal conservancy

Checking out the guidance on that page now. Thank you! Marleeashton (talk) 02:27, 31 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Marleeashton For the article California Coastal Conservancy that logo certainly can't be uploaded to Commons since it is more than simple text: the bit that looks like a wave is a part of the design. Hence you'll have to go via WP:NONFREE: follow the process outlined at WP:LOGOS carefully and you should be fine. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:52, 31 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
sounds good, thanks for the help! Marleeashton (talk) 21:16, 31 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Question from Ashhwoodd (15:53, 8 November 2022)[edit]

what are some good things to add to an article? --Ashhwoodd (talk) 15:53, 8 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Ashhwoodd That's rather too general a question to have a simple answer. Start by reading WP:42. Then take a look at some topics you already know something about and ask yourself "has Wikipedia covered this in sufficient detail that a reader gets a useful basic introduction?". If the answer is "no", then try to improve the article without adding things that you think you know: we only allow additions that are sourced to already-published material. Ask me again here on my Talk Page if you need further help, and enjoy the experience of contributing to the world's biggest repository of reliable information. Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:08, 8 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

That diagram....[edit]


Hi Mr Turnbull, I hope this finds you well. You previously commented on my thread at the help desk. Well, here is the diagram. I just wanted a second opinion, have I satisfied the requirements of MOS:CSDG? Thank you. X750. Spin a yarn? Articles I've screwed over? 03:53, 27 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi @X750. I'm going to be a bit picky, since many people would be quite happy with the diagram and it looks quite good even at small scale. The only real chemical issue is that diazo compounds are linear, not bent (see the parent diazomethane article). In some drawings, chemists hedge their bets by using =N2 but if you are going to draw the group out it should be =N+=N- in a straight line. Triphenyl phosphine is tricky because it is so large to draw despite not doing much more than removing an oxygen atom. So I might have been tempted to write (C6H5)3P on the left and (C6H5)3P=O on the right, especially since you chose that sort of representation for toluene on the arrow and have used "Pc" as text to indicate the phthalocyanine part (which you should certainly not draw, especially since you are placing the whole diagram in an article about Iron(II) phthalocyanine). A couple of other points (now I'm being really picky!): the arrow needs to be big enough that it covers the widest text below it, which means in this case it is worth giving it more space overall. Finally, in the article, the convention is not to use a thumbnail as that can be difficult to read but instead to place a colon before the filename and set its width in pixels. See my source code for how I've done that below.
I commented at the Teahouse that there can be text before or after the diagram that serves as a sort of caption. In this case, I'd ignore the part where you say "within diatomic nitrogen atmosphere and toluene solution" since chemists can see these in the diagrams and non-chemists will wonder "what other sort of nitrogen is there?". Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:38, 27 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
No problem with being picky, do it once do it right. Thank you for those points, I'll get onto it. X750. Spin a yarn? Articles I've screwed over? 16:31, 27 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hi Mr Turnbull, I've uploaded a new version of the svg. Has it taken your concerns into account? Also, I can't figure out how to draw N2 without there being a pink box (in ChemSketch) around it for some reason... if you know how that'd be swell too. X750. Spin a yarn? Articles I've screwed over? 01:53, 28 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@X750 The drawing was perfect but I made one more change and uploaded the new version over your previous one so you can see the difference. The first change was to use Inkscape's File/Document Properties/Resize page to drawing menu in order to add a 10px border around the whole thing. It doesn't matter about having a border when the image is used as we've got it here but it makes a big difference in thumbnails as your previous version had no white space and the thumbnail frame bashes into the picture. Secondly, and related, I used the instruction <svg preserveAspectRatio="xMidYMid" version="1.0" viewBox="0 0 686.7 130.6" xmlns=""> instead of <svg width="673.13" height="113.42" version="1.0" xmlns=""> in the second line of the .svg file. This ensures that the file will automatically scale to fill the available browser window allocated to it. Compare what you'll get by clicking on your previous version on Commons: this opens your file as a fixed-width picture top left in the browser. My version expands the image to fill the browser window. These are minor changes but I think are improvements. I don't know why you are getting the pink box in ChemSketch but I'll post here again if I find an answer. Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:03, 28 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I see the changes you've made, I'll incorporate it into my other svgs I've uploaded and any future uploads. Please working with you as always. X750. Spin a yarn? Articles I've screwed over? 16:30, 28 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Question from Goldendragonfly77 (18:22, 27 November 2022)[edit]


How do I edit my text? I am very new here and may be missing something. I see suggestions, but when I go to edit it only shows the name...

Thank you --Goldendragonfly77 (talk) 18:22, 27 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Question from Goldendragonfly77 (18:49, 27 November 2022)[edit]

Hello again,

I think I figured it out. But appreciate your mentorship as I learn the ropes here.


Melissa --Goldendragonfly77 (talk) 18:49, 27 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi @Melissa and welcome to Wikipedia editing. In a few minutes I'll place some general advice on your Talk Page so you'll have it handy. I see that you a put a bit of a biography on your User page. That's fine but note that User Pages are not supposed to be just autobiographies but rather should say a bit about what we hope to do as Wikipedia editors. There's more guidance at the link WP:UPYES. Don't think of that page as a draft article about yourself: apart from anything else it won't be indexed by search engines and doesn't follow the very strict rules for real articles about living people given at WP:BLP. By all means add any more questions you would like me to answer by adding to this section of my Talk Page (no need to have new sections for each continuing conversation). Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:16, 28 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

ArbCom 2022 Elections voter message[edit]

Scale of justice 2.svg

Hello! Voting in the 2022 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on Monday, 12 December 2022. All eligible users are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2022 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add {{NoACEMM}} to your user talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 01:40, 29 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

External links[edit]

Hello, Michael D. Turnball!

I have added external links in articles: Dichlorodifluoromethane, Selenium dioxide and p-Anisidine.

In ILO (as a site), p-Anisidine is considered "harmful if swallowed" (not fatal), in Pubchem (in article "Selenium dioxide") I have already seen information about toxicity of this compound. I will work in Wikipedia (constructively)! (talk) 20:45, 2 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi 85... Thank you for engaging with me. Please stop editing any more articles until we have completed this discussion because you are doing the edits incorrectly and are making a mess which others are having to correct. I will try to assist you to become a productive editor. To do that, let's just take one of your edits today to dichlorodifluoromethane. You added the alternative name "Halon" but the list already included "Halon 122" which is the correct name (see halon for some others). Secondly you tried to add a reference but you just put the words "As food additive" between reference tags. That's not a reference as it does not provide the reader with a source. See WP:REFBEGIN for a description of what citations are meant to contain. Third you add a "Main hazard" with a reference (well done!) BUT you chose just one part of that reference: so who told you that was the "Main hazard"? We must not be selective in our choice of wording. If the source is extensive and needs explanation, that must be done in the main body of the article, not in the Chembox, if we decide to do it at all. Finally, you added a IUPAC name where the chembox already had that information under the heading |PIN= (PIN means "preferred IUPAC name"). So that was unnecessary duplication. Do you agree these are problems? Mike Turnbull (talk) 21:14, 2 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
For selenium dioxide you added an external link to back up a "Main hazard" statement. However, you used a bare URL which is unhelpful to the reader because they have no idea where the link will take them until they click on it. At minimum you should have used {{cite web}} to get "Selenium dioxide safety and hazards". Retrieved 2022-12-02.. However, in practice the information you added is redundant as it is already present below in the chembox as pictograms and hazard phrases which readers can hover over to get explanations. Hence "unconstructive". Mike Turnbull (talk) 21:32, 2 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
OK, 85... your latest edit to selenium dioxide is fine using the citation as I suggested it. While you were on that article, you could have helped by improving ref #1 which was also a bare URL to a .pdf. I've made that change now. I'll not be around now until Sunday, so please carefully consider my other comments if you make more changes before then. Mike Turnbull (talk) 22:58, 2 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
In p-Anisidine you found a potentially interesting difference between two references. Pubchem says the compound is "fatal if swallowed" but another source which you gave as a bare URL goes to a Russian-language version of a site which you claim only says "harmful if swallowed" and this is also what the English version of that page says: why didn't you use that? So now we have a difference of opinion in the sources and you have chosen the less serious option, although in reality the difference is probably all about how much anyone swallows! Making a choice like that is called original research and is not allowed. Wikipedia editors can only cite sources, not make independent judgements of what is correct. In this case, I would have retained the original, more serious, warning as that's less likely to lead to a reader ignoring the possible hazard. So again "unconstructive" and reverted. Mike Turnbull (talk) 21:48, 2 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]


Michael D. Turnball! I think that p-Anisidine, like all moderately toxic substances, is considered harmful or fatal if swallowed (I have read article Toxicity class.

On the second hand, I think that p-Anisidine is considered fatal if swallowed - due its carcinogenicity! (talk) 21:54, 2 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Let's not worry about what you think and stick to what you and I write into articles on Wikipedia. We should not write harmful or fatal if swallowed because that's not either source says and is thus considered WP:SYNTHESIS. Mike Turnbull (talk) 22:00, 2 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Citations in the article about Biology[edit]

Mike, how I edit articles about Biology?

For example, the article about Saccharomyces cerevisiae! (talk) 21:59, 2 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

You edit those articles just like any others. However, before you do any such editing, please note that competence is required and it would be better if you continued to discuss your plans here on my Talk Page. Mike Turnbull (talk) 22:06, 2 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Citations in article University of Hamburg[edit]

Michael D. Turnball, how I can add citations in this article? Previous edits has been reverted (as unconstructive). (talk) 20:49, 2 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

(Note that my name is Turnbull, not Turnball but please just call me Mike). What exactly do you want to cite? Please give the details here in this thread and I'll help you prepare the information + citation ready to add to the article. Mike Turnbull (talk) 21:54, 2 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

A cupcake for you![edit]

Choco-Nut Bake with Meringue Top cropped.jpg Thanks, Michael, for the help with Freedom of panorama images. I can now find and upload suitable images when commons images are deleted due to no FoP. Cheers! Chanaka L (talk) 05:41, 11 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Question from Garytzahnow (23:56, 11 December 2022)[edit]

Hello, I need help with adding my name to the several movies I've been in, who else will add my own name? I've tried, but don't know the ins and outs on wikipedia. I'm not self promoting, or abusing the system, please help, thank you. Gary Zahnow --Garytzahnow (talk) 23:56, 11 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

(by talk reader) @Garytzahnow: If you are adding your own name, is that not self-promotion? Chris Troutman (talk) 01:25, 12 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Garytzahnow Your own Talk Page at User talk:Garytzahnow already has a lot of advice and I have little to add. The {{edit request}} mechanism, via the Talk Page of any relevant article is the only way you can legitimately have the information added and this will only happen if you provide a source reference that is reliable and independent of you, for example a review of the movie which mentions you but is not based on an interview. Please read the links I have provided for extra details and note that IMDb is not considered a reliable source for Wikipedia. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:48, 12 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I don't have information that was 45 years ago, nor do I know where, or whom I'd get that information from. (Do you honestly think they keep records of all extras & bit part actors?) I was cast as an actor as a young lieutenant for 3 weeks, where I was involved in bloody battle scenes, bar scenes & a ballroom scene as an extra/ bit player. <"Young Joe the Forgotten Kennedy, filmed in Pioneer Square, Seattle, Wa. 1976-77) There are 10 other films of mine & I deserve respect for being in them, and they should all be listed.
On IMDB I've been added to the cast list, and many of the movies I've been in are listed there. Again, I am not self promoting, I'd just like my name added to all my movies, that's all...."is that too much to ask for?" Who else will add my name in these movies?
I've contributed money toward wikipedia in the past. How do I get my own page? Merry Christmas & Happy New Year 2023,Gary Zahnow Garytzahnow (talk) 00:12, 13 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Garytzahnow If you can't find a source of information that you wish to add to a Wikipedia article (any article, not just about films) then it can't go in because there is a fundamental policy of verifiabliity: readers must be able to check that what the encyclopaedia says is accurate. If the only reason you have created an account here is because you want to include material about yourself, then I'm afraid you have come to the wrong place. Why not contribute on other topics you are knowledgeable about and you may find you actually enjoy it here! That would in many ways be a better thing to do than contribute money, since the WMF is not short of cash but is short of willing and competent volunteers as editors. Merry Christmas & Happy New Year 2023 to you also. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:19, 13 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Question from BarbaryTeardrop (23:53, 12 December 2022)[edit]

Hello. I'm an academic publishing a scholarly book that includes a screenshot of a section of a Wikipedia page. The section has disappeared since I took the screenshot, and I'm trying to find out why (mostly out of curiosity: stumbling upon the now-deleted section is an important crux in the book because it really rattled me). I've tried searching the edit history but can't decipher it, and I don't seem to have an option to contact the person who has done the most editing of it in recent history. I'd be grateful for any advice you have. The page in question is "Space Shuttle Columbia disaster." Many thanks. --BarbaryTeardrop (talk) 23:53, 12 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@BarbaryTeardrop It should be fairly easy to find the version of the article Space Shuttle Columbia disaster by reference back to your screenshot. The key will be to know when you screen-grabbed it: can you provide that date from the timestamp on the file? If not, I can do a search based on a portion of the text, if you could type that back into this thread. The best portion to use would be one that has changed considerably between then and now in a given section of the article. I'm intrigued as to why the screenshot is "an important crux in the book": are you making some point about Wikipedia or about the investigation of the disaster? One key general guidance is that Wikipedia is not a reliable source (please read the linked essay) but everything stated in an article should be cited to somewhere that is a reliable source and it is the latter that an academic should be tracking down. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:00, 13 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

God Jul![edit]

Spread the WikiLove; use {{subst:Season's Greetings}} to send this message

Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:37, 21 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Happy Holidays![edit]

Wikipedia Happy New Year.png Merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2023!

Hello Michael D. Turnbull, may you be surrounded by peace, success and happiness on this seasonal occasion. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Sending you heartfelt and warm greetings for Christmas and New Year 2023.
Happy editing,

X750. Spin a yarn? Articles I've screwed over? 00:43, 25 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Spread the love by adding {{subst:Seasonal Greetings}} to other user talk pages.

X750. Spin a yarn? Articles I've screwed over? 00:43, 25 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Question from KamleshArora on Help:User contributions (05:57, 5 January 2023)[edit]


I have published a page on Wikipedia and it's still under review. Please provide your guidance so that the page can be approved.

Regards Kamlesh --KamleshArora (talk) 05:57, 5 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@KamleshArora Is this about Draft:Junglee Games? That was declined on 21 December and again on 24 December. I am not a reviewer of new articles but I know what reviewers are looking for. That is evidence that the company is notable in the specific meaning of that word used by Wikipedia. Evidence is needed in the form of citations which are all three of: from reliable sources, independent of the company and with significant coverage, not just a mention. That rules out anything mostly based on an interview (current refs #1, #2) or a press release (#5): I didn't check the other refs. Your draft says "recognized as one of India's great mid-size workplaces 2022 by Great Place to Work". That sounds very promising, since I assume that Great Place to Work is some sort of organisation independent of Junglee games. However, you don't cite your source for that statement, so readers can't verify it, a core principle here on Wikipedia. You need much more on what third-parties are saying about Junglee Games (for good or bad) and much less about what they are saying about themselves. The world is full of people and companies going about routine business. Wikipedia only wants articles on those clearly making an impact that others are writing about. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:36, 5 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Question from Vipul.sushiljain (17:51, 6 January 2023)[edit]

Hi I have started writing blogs, on Jainism, All the knowledge which I have to the best I am articulating it and writing it so people know and read about it. This is by blog URL - Kindly visit it, and help me in adding a backlink of my blog to wikipedia so people visit and read. Thank you. --Vipul.sushiljain (talk) 17:51, 6 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Vipul.sushiljain No! Wikipedia must not be used for promotion of any sort and spam links to external websites will be deleted on sight, as one you added already has been. In addition, blogs are not considered reliable sources (see WP:BLOGS) and have very limited use within Wikipedia. Please restrict your contributions to material that will improve the encyclopaedia. Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:59, 6 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I am not using wikipedia, for promotion, the content which I have written is logical and valid, which will help people to know more on thirthankar god. Vipul.sushiljain (talk) 06:21, 7 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Vipul.sushiljain Adding links to your blogs is promotion, irrespective of how accurate the material is. If you have published in a peer-reviewed journal then you could cite the information. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:24, 7 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]