Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Connecticut

Class S, L, M, SS, LL, MM

I edit in WikiProject Schools, and I've noticed that in Connecticut school articles, there's a lot of mention of "Class S", "Class L", "Class M", "Class SS", "Class LL", and "Class MM", or at least something of the sort. What does this mean? Looking it up, it seems that it indicates size of the school/team in the same way Class A, AA, AAA, etc. does, but where does Class SS and Class MM fit into this, if at all? And is there a way to clarify this to people outside of Connecticut, like with a wikilink or expansion of acronym or something of the sort? TheGEICOgecko (talk) 05:15, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

It's probably worth clarifying that the classification you mention is for CIAC sports (http://ciacsports.com/site/?page_id=127). Despite my own broad experience as an athlete, parent, and referee in CT, I've never heard of that classification, but when I googled it and poked around CIAC's website, there it was. Can you provide links where the classifications are mentioned? CountryMama27 (talk) 13:36, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

The CoGs are not actually counties

I'm very much against edits like this. We really need to stop propping up the CoGs as if they are actually counties. No one in Connecticut actually treats the CoGs as important as the historic counties, and I see no evidence that (besides the census) they are actually worth propping up as the lead image in every town article.
@AirportExpert: I'd appreciate you reverting until this can be fully discussed. –MJL ‐Talk‐^☖ 15:32, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

@Elli: I know you have thoughts on this you might want to share. –MJL ‐Talk‐^☖ 15:37, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

Disagree with you here; Connecticut's ceremonial counties have no governmental function at all and are no longer even used by the U.S. census at request of the state. While switching to planning regions may feel a bit weird; they make much more sense to use than counties at this point. Elli (talk | contribs) 19:48, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

I'm not on board with treating them as equivalents. While they are a thing and are more useful for planning purposes, nobody is going to tell you they live in the "Capitol Planning Region", they're going to say they live in Hartford County. Unless sources are now using the planning regions instead of counties, we should not be unilaterally deciding the planning regions take precedence over counties. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 20:37, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

According to the Federal and State government, the CoGs are now county-equivalents. The term "county-equivalent" is used to "describe divisions that are comparable to counties but called by different names". There are other states that also possess county-equivalents (such as Alaska's Boroughs and Louisiana's Parishes), and these designated regions serve the same functions as counties but are simply called by other names. Connecticut is unique however, since it is the only state to have "counties", while simultaneously using another set of boundaries (in this case "Planning Regions" aka "CoGs") to represent what are considered counties by the government's definition. The Census Bureau addressed this in the Federal Register, by stating "This decision was made without regard to similar circumstances that may exist in other states and is narrowly focused on this unique situation in Connecticut. Therefore, it should not be taken as a precedent for other situations that may currently exist or arise later". To summarize, the Census Bureau and the State both agree that Connecticut's CoGs will replace Counties by every legal, administrative and statistical measure. Connecticut's historical counties also no longer have important designations such as FIPS codes, which is something that every geographic region recognized by the Census Bureau has. I would encourage you to read these two documents provided by the U.S. Census Bureau for broader context:

• https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2022/06/06/2022-12063/change-to-county-equivalents-in-the-state-of-connecticut
• https://www2.census.gov/geo/pdfs/reference/ct_county_equiv_change.pdf

That being said, I agree with you that people are probably not going to suddenly start saying they live in the "Capitol Planning Region", or the "South Central Connecticut Planning Region", etc. These terms are verbose, but they are not arbitrary terms that anyone here came up with. They are the legal definition of what defines Connecticut's counties, and should be recognized as such. I think for cultural context it is still worth saying, for example: "Danbury is a city in Fairfield county, Connecticut..." at the intro to each article and to leave the historical county in the infobox, but as far as maps go, it would be inaccurate to use historical boundary maps in each article, when the government no longer relies on these boundaries for anything. As time goes by, boundaries change over time. Being "historically part of something" matters to a degree and is certainly noteworthy, but it should not necessarily be used as the primary definition going forward. I would very much like to discuss this further with everyone before any further changes are made though. --AirportExpert (talk) 23:32, 29 April 2023 (UTC)AirportExpert

One more thing to add: the Councils of Governments (CoGs) in Connecticut play an important role in cooperation between municipalities, and act as de-facto county governments in this state, wielding much of the same authority governments have elsewhere. That alone should be enough of a reason for a municipality's Wikipedia page to outline what Planning Region it is in via the map in the infobox. For purposes of transparency and public awareness of how councils of governments work in Connecticut, the map highlighting planning regions is far more useful and informative than a map showing the boundaries of a historic county that has no power to do anything whatsoever. Municipalities use CoGs to apply for grants and consolidate public services. Now with federal recgnition, CoGs have the power to do a lot more than they are currently doing, and the state pushed for this because there are a lot of public services that Connecticut taxpayers pay more for, which could easily be consolidated between municipalities to save money (a common example cited being the hiring of 911 operators for each CoG vs. each municipality). That is a clear example of how a county government works, and why it matters in this context. Should the historic counties still be mentioned and do they matter culturally? Yes. Do they have any real impact on the lives of people in Connecticut or the way the government functions? No.--AirportExpert (talk) 00:23, 30 April 2023 (UTC)AirportExpert

They are equivalents, though, and both the state government and census use them instead of the historic counties. The historic counties are still worth mentioning, of course. Elli (talk | contribs) 00:48, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

I don't think anyone is saying the planning regions shouldn't be mentioned. But I disagree with removing the county maps from articles in favor of the planning regions map (I would be fine with using both). While the historic counties don't really have much meaning for governance, they are significant culturally. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 15:23, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

I was going to write a longer response about how technically the historic counties are used for the Connecticut State Marshals and sometimes judicial districts (vs the WP:CRYSTALBALL nature of the CoGs), but I'm fine with just keeping both as well by doing something like this.
@AirportExpert and Elli: Would you find that acceptable? –MJL ‐Talk‐^☖ 19:40, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

I support adding both maps with a switcher to all city/town pages, and will be happy to help implement it. This is a good compromise that should satisfy everyone's concerns.

On a separate note, I've been having trouble with the interactive switcher maps on the pages for CT cities. If you look at the pages where I've added interactive maps, you will see that on CT city pages (such as Norwalk and Danbury) the cities are greyed out, but on the pages for towns they are not. I've tried multiple ways to correct this issue, including within OpenStreetMap, but I cannot seem to figure out what is causing this. Does anyone here have any ideas? I appreciate any input on this matter. AirportExpert (talk) 20:01, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

Sure, that works, though I wouldn't link "Connecticut" there. Elli (talk | contribs) 20:42, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

I think having both as you've shown here works well. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 14:16, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

I think given the new county-equivalent designation (which, as an aside, will completely complicate using county census data trends), CoGs should be included in maps and by name where historical county is named, but should be referred to as county-equivalents (CE? a better term is sorely needed!).

As far as terminology? More people that live here refer their town being a part of the "Northwest Hills" (CE) rather than Litchfield or Hartford county.

Let's face it, CT is weird, and the legislature should simply reinstitute, and perhaps redraw, counties and phase in some of the functions without adding another layer of government. CountryMama27 (talk) 13:48, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

@CountryMama27: It really depends on where you live. In Middlesex County, the county is normally used. In the Northeast, they normally call where they live the Quiet Corner. –MJL ‐Talk‐^☖ 17:34, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

County Page Consistency

In poking around the pages for historical/census counties, I noticed some organizational differences. Do people see a benefit to updating these pages to have similar sections, perhaps breaking up the history somewhat, or updating the town list to be a chart like Demographic Breakdown (Breakdown being a term I'd like to see changed). Such a chart could show each town's incorporation date and when it was added to the county.

Also some guidance is needed regarding the Major Highways for those county pages that have it. First, if we include all State Routes, we'd have an absurdly long list. I propose we include only the Interstates and U.S. Routes. Second, the term is inaccurate and should then be labeled "Interstates and U.S. Routes." "Highway" is largely a regional term. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CountryMama27 (talk • contribs) 15:02, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

County Equivalents

The shift to county equivalents for the state should somehow be represented on the "historical county" pages; as well, do county equivalents need their own pages? Perhaps one to start that lists them and their towns and notes the difference between counties & county equivalents? (I haven't looked to see what's in wiki for CT county equivalents)

Also, should each town page reference their county equivalent as well? CountryMama27 (talk) 15:06, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

Loosey LaDuca

I've nominated Loosey LaDuca for Good article status, if any project members are interested in improving or reviewing. Thanks! ---Another Believer _(Talk) 19:41, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Hurricane Sandy in New England#Requested move 21 August 2023

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Hurricane Sandy in New England#Requested move 21 August 2023 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. —usernamekiran (talk) 21:02, 29 August 2023 (UTC)