Talk:Millennials: Difference between revisions
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{{Controversial}} |
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==Why does this article still need "cleaning up"?== |
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{{WikiProject banner shell|class=B|vital=yes|1= |
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{{WikiProject Demographics}} |
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{{WikiProject Geography|importance=mid}} |
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{{WikiProject Sociology|importance=mid}} |
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{{WikiProject Statistics|importance=low}} |
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{{Press |
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| author = Sage Lazzaro |
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| date = 2015-08-11 |
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| url = http://observer.com/2015/08/theres-debate-over-these-celebs-wikipedia-is-highlighting-as-notable-millennials/ |
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| title = Wikipedians in an Editing War Over Justin Bieber Being Called a ‘Notable Millennial’ |
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| org = [[Observer]] |
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| archiveurl = https://web.archive.org/web/20150811202119/http://observer.com/2015/08/theres-debate-over-these-celebs-wikipedia-is-highlighting-as-notable-millennials/ |
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| archivedate = 2015-08-11 |
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| accessdate = 2015-08-11 |
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{{afd-merged-from|Cold Y Generation|Cold Y Generation|04 September 2009}} |
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{{oldmergefull |
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| otherpage = MTV Generation |
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| date = 26 August 2009 |
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| result = '''keep''' |
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| talk = Talk:Millennials#Proposed_Merger_of_MTV_Generation_into_this_article}} |
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{{Old moves |
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|list= |
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* RM, Generation Y → Millennial Generation, '''No consensus''', 4 May 2007 to 3 August 2008, [[Talk:Millennials/Archive_3#Vote: Change "Generation Y" to "Millenial Generation"?]] |
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* RM, Generation Y → Millennials, '''Moved''', 23 October 2013, [[Talk:Millennials/Archive_9#Requested_move]] |
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* RM, Millennials → Millennial Generation, '''No consensus''', 6 November 2013, [[Talk:Millennials/Archive_8#Requested_move_2]] |
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|title1=Generation Y |
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|title2=Millennials}} |
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== 15-year generation? == |
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Here is a list of all the substantiated facts available/presented to us in this article: |
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I understand many sources say this generation is about 15 years long. However, the article says nothing about [[Strauss–Howe generational theory]]. S&H were very clear in previous books that generations are typically 20-25 years long, with a few exceptions such as Silent and Gen X which are smaller. The ''size'' of a generation is determined by it's ''age'' ie. Boomers are a big generation largely because they lasted for nearly 25 years. Because they were large size they dominated culture. The smaller generations were squeezed out to the margins. This article is saying in effect Millennials are a historically small generation, they only lasted 15 years. It makes no sense. I feel like this article cherry picked sources that support the 15 year age, and avoided reporting sources that give it a longer age, thus bigger size and bigger cultural influence. |
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-Human beings give birth to other human beings. |
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-Human beings born anywhere between 1983 to the present day fall under the catagory of "Generation Y". |
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-Generalisations and stereotypes are annoying. |
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What's happened now is every generation is 15 years old. Typically a generation is defined by a daughter -> mother -> grandmother. That's 3 generations. They typically last 20 to 25 years between them. Although these days more like 30 years. So I really do think the generations have gotten messed up, because every commercial interest wants to declare a new generation every couple years, because this is how they sell books, reports, consulting services, advertising, etc.. |
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This is not enough for people who just want facts, rather than some 1000 word essay on the common stereotypes plaguing the American youth. |
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In any case, our article has no information as to what Strauss–Howe generational theory says is the length of the Millennial generation. Even though they were the first to coin and define it, and are probably the single most influential generation theory writers around. The last I read anything on this topic was a long time ago, but S&H were saying they believed it would end around 2006 or so, and be one of the biggest and most influential generations. Not the smaller shorter less influential generation this article defines. -- [[User:GreenC|<span style="color: #006A4E;">'''Green'''</span>]][[User talk:GreenC|<span style="color: #093;">'''C'''</span>]] [[User:GreenC|<span style="color: #006A4E;">'''Green'''</span>]][[User talk:GreenC|<span style="color: #093;">'''C'''</span>]] 17:32, 19 April 2024 (UTC) |
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If you're going to "clean up" this article, then do us all a favour and add some valid statistical data. |
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: |
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:The Date Range section deals with the different age theories, and mentions Strauss-Howe in that context: "Author Neil Howe, co-creator of the Strauss–Howe generational theory, defines Millennials as being born from 1982 to 2004". The Baby Boomer article defines the boomer generation spanning 1946–1964 (19 years), and that was based on birthrates rather than a traditional interpretation of a "generation". If we go with the Strauss-Howe definition for millenials, that would put Gen X between 1965–1981 (17 years), and millenials 19 years, so the demographic cohort seems to have 18-year iterations give or take a year. The prevailing date range for millenials (1981–1996) does seem to be prematurely curtailed, and appears to contradict its own definition (i.e. the trans-millennial generation) by excluding those born 1997–2000, but as editors we don't have much control over that. I think the article probably does reflect the weighting of views found in reliable sources, and yes it is at odds with a more intuitive understanding of what a generation is. [[User:Betty Logan|Betty Logan]] ([[User talk:Betty Logan|talk]]) 18:11, 19 April 2024 (UTC) |
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: |
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::Thank you for pointing out S&H is mentioned. It should have higher placement and explanation, maybe its own section. After all, they invented the idea of a Millennial generation, and wrote entire books about it. |
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::From our article, it looks like the Pew Research Center report from 2019 was influential in establishing the 1996 end date. What is Pew's generation theory? All I could find was this [https://www.pewresearch.org/short-read/2023/05/22/how-pew-research-center-will-report-on-generations-moving-forward/ article] that is a black box. Summary: we gather data and analyze it. Compare the many books and articles by S&H published over decades, that are extremely in-depth and justify their positions. S&H theory has an internal consistency that goes back a thousand years or more. Pew barely a few generations. |
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::I can see why all of this is problematic for Wikipedia. No doubt there are editors who consider it FRINGE science and the best we can do is report what sources report. Picking Pew is a safe bet in that atmosphere. But PEW has a peculiar notion that every generation is 15-18 years long. This timespan is impossible to justify when looking backwards in time. And pre-setting hard numbers for the length of a generation is also not justifiable. Sometimes they are 15 years. Sometimes closer to 30 years. It's like centuries. Real historians don't periodize history by 100 year segments. They use terms like [[Long 19th century]] or [[Short 20th century]] because each "century" is defined by characteristics that may or may not be 100 years chronologically. -- [[User:GreenC|<span style="color: #006A4E;">'''Green'''</span>]][[User talk:GreenC|<span style="color: #093;">'''C'''</span>]] 01:19, 20 April 2024 (UTC) |
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: |
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:::Perhaps it is useful to point out that a social generation or a demographic cohort is different from a biological generation? Today, a biological generation is roughly twice as long as a social one, not least because of rapid technological changes, which certainly have an impact on culture and behavior. Jean Twenge explains this in her recent book, ''Generations''. [[User:Nerd271|Nerd271]] ([[User talk:Nerd271|talk]]) 12:39, 20 April 2024 (UTC) |
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::::I agree with this. Strauss and Howe's dates should at the very least be mentioned since they actually coined the phrase. I believe their date range was 1982 to 2005. [[User:Drakus79|Drakus79]] ([[User talk:Drakus79|talk]]) 04:25, 27 November 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::A few weeks ago I added the Strauss and Howe dates to the date range section but it looks like it was removed. Why is this? Strauss and Howe coined the term "Millennial". I know that the pew research dates are generally more accepted, but their dates should at the very least be mentioned. [[User:Drakus79|Drakus79]] ([[User talk:Drakus79|talk]]) 04:29, 27 November 2024 (UTC) |
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::::::Their dates are in the "Date and age range definitions" section. [[User:Danbloch|Dan Bloch]] ([[User talk:Danbloch|talk]]) 04:37, 27 November 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::::More specifically, the last sentence of the sixth paragraph. [[User:Some1|Some1]] ([[User talk:Some1|talk]]) 04:37, 27 November 2024 (UTC) |
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== Blurred boundaries of the date of birth == |
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The major restructure of this document has sagely included a piece about why the majority of discussion regarding generations is inherantly stereotypical and therefore useless to all those who intend to garner some kind of factual information from the article, but does not provide any facts to satisfy their needs. |
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In addition to the data from the Pew Research Center, there are also, for example, data from the international American company McKinsey, where millennials Y were born from 1980 to 1994 or McCrindle (1980-1994), So this is all conditional, but in order to avoid disagreements, of all the existing classifications of the theory of generations, it is better to take the earliest date of birth Millennials - 1980 and the earliest end date of births - The year 1994, especially since people born in 1995, they can no longer be called millennials in the classical sense that modern sociologists describe them, but you can already call the very first generation Z, according to many signs, which is confirmed by data from many reputable research centers. So, of all the interpretations that exist today, in my opinion, the birth dates of generation Y from 1980 to 1994 will be the most optimal. [[User:Georgii Valentinovich|Georgii Valentinovich]] ([[User talk:Georgii Valentinovich|talk]]) 18:49, 10 August 2024 (UTC) |
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Please consider this carefully. |
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:The most optimal would be to take the ''latest'' start date (1983) and the ''earliest'' end date (1994), because people born between those years are the only ones that are undeniably millenials by all definitions. But Wikipedia does not concern itself with what is optimal, the only applicable policy here is [[WP:DUE]], and I think this article is now balanced well with that policy—at least in terms of the date definitions. I would also recommend reading {{u|Danbloch}}'s essay above. [[User:Betty Logan|Betty Logan]] ([[User talk:Betty Logan|talk]]) 03:27, 11 August 2024 (UTC) |
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--[[User:Badharlick|Badharlick]] 03:15, 5 November 2005 (UTC) |
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>>>Thanks, but this article no longer resembles anything close to what it was when I cleaned it up before. I don't, however, think a purely factual entry about a concept as nebulous as a generation is even possible. I tried to be objective but this is a classic example of wiki gone wild.[[User:24.11.206.132|24.11.206.132]] 04:41, 22 November 2005 (UTC) |
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== Just for the record, Strauss and Howe coined the term “Millennial” == |
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>>> Let's try wrapping our heads around this, ok class? |
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Men come back from war and make babies. This began in 1946. This is the "Baby Boomer" generation and it ends in 1964. (Remember this: 18 years) The Baby Boomers have kids. Born between 1964 and 1982 - they are "Generation X." (Did you notice the 18 year span?) "Generation Y" (or whatever you want to call it) would include everyone born between 1982 to 2000. If you're born in one of the "limbo years" - 1964, 1982, 2000 - you belong to whichever generation your attitude, ideals, and upbringing cause you to identify most with. The generations are in 18 year spans because that is when you are considered an adult. You come of age, go off to college, make your own decisions, and it is an age at which a lot of people have kids. If you stick to the 18 year span, you can't really get lost with when a generation begins and ends. I hope this helps those of you who seem to be absolutely lost. |
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Authors William Strauss and Neil Howe [https://www.cdamm.org/articles/strauss-howe coined the term.] To my understanding, some people have been going into this article and attempting to delete any mention them. This is erasure of history. While [[Strauss-Howe generational theory]] is widely criticized, it is part of the generations history whether people like it or not. [[User:Bob200505722|Bob200505722]] ([[User talk:Bob200505722|talk]]) 23:00, 30 March 2025 (UTC) |
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- November 18, 2005 |
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:I don't see any attempt to "delete any mention" of them. There are multiple mentions of the theory and its authors throughout the article. [[User:Betty Logan|Betty Logan]] ([[User talk:Betty Logan|talk]]) 00:36, 31 March 2025 (UTC) |
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==Major restructure== |
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::Yep. This is easy to confirm with the search function of one's web browser. [[User:Nerd271|Nerd271]] ([[User talk:Nerd271|talk]]) 02:02, 31 March 2025 (UTC) |
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== Number of babies born == |
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Hey folks. I'm someone who has taken a very strong interest in generational theory and plan on writing a thesis based partly on this generation. I'm also an adult member of the generation (age 23). I did a massive restructuring of this page hoping to neutralize it as well as remove some glaring grammatical and organizational problems. I hope that if there is some consensus, we can consider moving this page to "Millennial Generation" and having "Generation Y" lead to that page, but that will also require another major edit of this page. I hope people can agree on what I've changed... one of the major edits was clarifying the difference between "Generation Y" in the US and its counterparts in the UK, who are the same age and often called Generation Y, but there are some slight differences due to national events shaping generations (and therefore obviously different countries can't have exactly the same generations). I hope this is an improvement.---Biddy5637 |
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I seek the number of babies born in Millennial years. I want to compare it to 76.4 million babies born in the Baby Boom generation. All I see in this article is the generations alive in 2012 or 2019 or other statistics not of interest to me at the moment. Has the number of births been tallied? - - [[User:Prairieplant|Prairieplant]] ([[User talk:Prairieplant|talk]]) 03:21, 4 June 2025 (UTC) |
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==This title is offensive== |
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This article title is offensive. We are not just copies of gen-x. This article has pissed me off for a long time, now I finally have something to run with. Your own people this age groups call themselves Millennials, see [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Millenial_Wikipedians Category:Millennial Wikipedians]]. Other publications like Stauss & Howes's Millennial's rising is the definitve study about is generation. This article's content is also highly biased and stereotypical. This article should be at Millenial and have include better informastion. -The Masked Millenial |
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:I don't know if this answers your question, but according to https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2020/04/28/millennials-overtake-baby-boomers-as-americas-largest-generation/: {{tq|As of July 1, 2019 (the latest date for which population estimates are available), Millennials, whom we define as ages 23 to 38 in 2019, numbered 72.1 million, and Boomers (ages 55 to 73) numbered 71.6 million.}} [[User:Some1|Some1]] ([[User talk:Some1|talk]]) 03:35, 4 June 2025 (UTC) |
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Followup Note: Some people search by Gen Y and know it by Gen Y per the media, it may be an appropriate title. |
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* No, I agree, this isn't a good title. You might as well call us the '''Beavis and Butthead Generation''' at this rate. My preference would be for the more neutral '''Echo Generation''' title. --[[User:BalooUrsidae|BalooUrsidae]] 10:17, 13 November 2005 (UTC) |
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* I'm Generation Y too, and have never heard the phrase "Echo Generation" used. I've only heard "Millennial Generation" or "Millennials" used once or twice, with "Generation Y" being by far the most common way of referencing my generation. I don't see how "Generation Y" could be offensive. --[[User:Jacj|Jacj]] 18:15, 13 November 2005 (UTC) |
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* Honestly, I like "Millennial Generation" with members of said generation being refered to as "Millennials", but thats most because it sounds incredibly cool. I mean, all the previous generations have more formal names and I doubt Generation Y will be ours.--[[User:Kross|Kross]] | [[User talk:Kross|Talk]] 05:33, 15 November 2005 (UTC) |
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*I don't like it either, and I do find the term somewhat pejorative, as it implies the generation is not distinct from Gen X. I created the above user category and a more nuanced outline of my views can be found [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion&oldid=26029326#Category:Millennial_Wikipedians_to_Category:Generation_Y_Wikipedians_.28from_October_5.29 here]. However, I think we can all agree that their is not "as of yet" an agreed upon title like Baby Boomer or Gen X. While it might be a bit sterile, why don't we move the article title to [[Last generation born in the 20th Century]], it may be a bit prosaic, but its also neutral and accurate—even if the last cohorts of the generation are born in the 21st century the title would still be accurate. Perhaps by the time people born in the latter part of the generation are old enough to care what they're called, one of the names will be more established. -[[User:JCarriker|JCarriker]] 07:50, 15 November 2005 (UTC) |
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==But this is like --- Baby boomers== |
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This article is not offensive. I know everyone is unique but this is just a term to describe all people of a certain generation. So I see no offense from this. |
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And what will be my generation? I am born on 1990 and I believe I have the traits of common Genration Y people. I am also born under Thatcher's reign, mind you. |
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:Gen X is a historical thing, the people who grew up "in the shadow" of the Baby boomers, their children. I'm not sure there's any real significance to a Gen Y other than people like to name things for naming sake. --[[User:DanielCD|DanielCD]] 04:21, 10 January 2006 (UTC) |
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== Where is the Britpop movement? == |
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You missed completely the early 90s Britpop movement - especially from a UK point-of-view. I was born in 1980, and so my formative years were full of bands such s Oasis, Blur, Suede, Pulp etc. Guitar based music was becoming popular for the first time in years, and the UK was back on the map for music - how could you miss this out? |
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== I would like to bring to your attention the factual inaccuracy of this encyclopedia entry == |
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This article, as you can probably see, is full vague and impressionistic generalisation, stereotyping, and general patent nonsense. The author seems to have absolutely no idea what he is talking about, and presents his information as though he is plugged into some kind of godlike all knowing intelligence. |
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You cannot generalise and stereotype the beliefs, thoughts, attitude, manner, lives, parents, and interests of an entire generation of millions and millions of people without just making things up. There is absolutely no way you could get that sort of information unless you consulted every single member of Generation Y on an individual basis. |
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Therefore I move that the section of this article describing Generation Y in the US be removed as it is national favouritism and contains far too many generalisations and stereotypes to be considered a factual document. I also vote that any sections puporting to be describing "Characteristically" (generalising) the nature of Generation Y be removed in favour of sections which actually contain substantiated fact, actual statstics, and real information. I strongly insist that the section titled "'''Musical Subcultures'''" be removed as it is a shameful stereotype, based not on the interests of the generation but rather on whatever crap is being pumped out by the media industry. I seriously doubt that the author would know what a subculture or culture was even if it hit him in the face and tattooed the meaning of the word onto his retina, judging by the way he writes it. |
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Also "Current Problems and Trends Among This Generation" is an outright disgrace and should be removed immediately. It is probably the most massive stereotype/generalisation to've been allowed onto Wikipedia and is a violation of everything this site stands for. |
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Other than that the whole article is laced with stereotypes and generalisations, which should be removed. I recommend a thorough examination of the "facts" and a banning for the author. I cannot believe that this article has already been here so long and I cannot believe that nobody has questioned the neutrality and factual accuracy of the document already. |
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Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a storybook or propaganda leaflet. |
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--[[User:Badharlick|Badharlick]] 07:35, 10 July 2005 (UTC) |
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Generation ended 1993? That seems wrong it should have ended in the 1989.... |
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--[[User:Andrewcool|Andrewcool]] 20:09, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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"Millenial Generation"? I thought they were called generation Y. The title is incorrectly capitalized BTW. Yup, I was right: Google finds 37,500 hits for "Generation Y" and only 322 for "Millenial Generation". I will make the move now. --[[User:Maveric149|mav]] 03:03 Nov 20, 2002 (UTC) |
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Generation Y is not very popularly used in my experience. It seems to be used more as a term when nobody can think of anything else to say. The term 'echo' is more popularly used. [[User:Peregrine981|Peregrine981]] 22:41, 19 Oct 2003 (UTC) |
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:Moved. --mav |
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A generation's name should have no bearing on the name of the immediate succeeding generation. Every generation is post-something (Boomers were postwar, X was post-Boom, Y is post-X). Ergo, Millenials. -- Gregory Pietsch |
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Is it just me or are all these "generation articles" essays rather than an encyclopedia article? --[[User:Robert Merkel|Robert Merkel]] 04:03 5 Jun 2003 (UTC) |
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:It ain't just you. I made a serious effort to edit one of them into something half-decent a while ago, but after 20 minutes of so I realised that there wasn't anything much left of them by the time I took out all the vague and impressionistic generalisations. In the end, I just hit "cancel" and threw the changes away. I should re-read them to see if they merit listing on VFD, I suppose. (PS: Hi Robert, haven't seen much of you lately.) [[User:Tannin|Tannin]] 04:10 5 Jun 2003 (UTC) |
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I think this article should be eliminated. Is there any real sociological or scientific thought about this generation yet? Is there any point in including every generation that has no real distinguishing characteristics, other than the simple fact that they lived in a seperate time period from all preceeding generations, in an encyclopedia? The term 'generation' is only useful if there is a real point of commonality between most of its members, or it had and important effect on society ''as a generation'' and not simply as a collection of individuals. This article is full of jargon and is very un-focused. Even if there is a point in discussing this generation, I think that it is far too early to talk about a 'generation' that is still being born. [[User:Peregrine981|Peregrine981]] 19:37, 19 Oct 2003 (UTC) |
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Does anyone know what "Awakening-era" and "Unraveling" and other such terms used in this article are supposed to mean? The first half of the second-to-last paragraph is virtually unintelligible. If someone could explain it to me, I'd appreciate it. Or, rather, if you can explain it to me, you can explain it in the article. That would be a better solution. -[[User:Branddobbe|Branddobbe]] |
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Is there any reason for the celebrities list being restricted to US-born people? Because that seems pretty pointless to me. -[[User:Branddobbe|Branddobbe]] 04:27, Mar 24, 2004 (UTC) |
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:I agree. That seems like a silly distinction, since the definition of Generation Y that we are folliwing says it is a western phenomenon, not limited to the USA. |
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:On another note, you asked earlier what phrases such as the followin mean? |
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:'' Where child Generation Xers had once been the castoffs of Awakening-era euphoria, Millennials have become symbols of an Unraveling-era need to prevent the social hemorrhaging before it could damage another new generation.'' |
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:This is a very theoretical, and "fluffy" description to include in an encyclopedic generational description. We should focus on facts and concrete sociological description rather than that kind of junk. Its an amateurish description to include, so unless I hear any objection soon I'm going to cut it out, I don't believe its worth improving. It says nothing of value. |
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[[User:Peregrine981|Peregrine981]] 14:31, 24 Mar 2004 (UTC) |
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I'm not really sure about the value of the "special baby" section: |
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''culture in the United States began stigmatizing hands-off parenting styles and recast babies as special. Child abuse and child safety became hot topics, while books teaching virtues and values became best-sellers.'' |
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Were babies ever "not special" to a large portion of the population? I think I can see where the author was trying to go, but I think this could be reworded. Certainly children started to receive more special attention, in terms of "programs" and so on during the 1980s, children have become more "scheduled" in many western societies, but it would be good to have some stats. Basically I think it needs to be reworded and refocused. |
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[[User:Peregrine981|Peregrine981]] 21:52, 24 Mar 2004 (UTC) |
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I disagree that there hasn't been sociological or scientific thought on this generation. "Echo Boomers" or "Echo Generation" seems to be the more ''scientific'' name for it, and I've found a lot more information under the former. That also satisfies Pietsch's suggestion that a generation's name should have no bearing on the name of the immediate succeeding generation. This CBS News article provides a lot of elaboration [[http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/01/60minutes/main646890.shtml]], some of which I have incorporated so far. |
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Google hits statistics at the time of writing:<br /> |
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Echo Boomers: 18,400<br /> |
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Echo Generation: 676,000<br /> |
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Generation Y: 4,910,000<br /> |
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Millenial Genration: 49,900<br /> |
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with "quotes" (more accurate... Google treats things in quotes as one word):<br /> |
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"Echo Boomers": 4,070<br /> |
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"Echo Generation": 1,900<br /> |
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"Generation Y": 67,100<br /> |
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"Millenial Generation": 7,870<br /> |
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Appearently one year makes a big difference.... |
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--[[User:Macrowiz|Macrowiz]] 00:54, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC) |
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:the [[Demographics]] article seems to alternatively call this N generation, on a google search (with "brackets") this comes up with 10,300 results, although a lot of these seem to be associated with the video game final fantasy, rather than a demographic group. Also "millennial generation" now has 19,300 results. --[[User:vierstein|vierstein]] |
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I find this page to be very accurate actually, I am definately of Generation Y and as I study my peers I see the things around me everyday that are mentioned in this article. And by my peers I mean my fellow fourteen year olds. Although I am one of those who like old rock such as Zeppelin, Hendrix, Floyd, Queen, and many other old rock bands I genuinely feel as though the author of this article knows what he's talking about. |
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--[[User:Roberto De Birmingham|Roberto De Birmingham]] 10:22, 23 December 2005 (UTC) |
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== Date Problem, Big One == |
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"60 million people were born between 1979 and 1994 in the United States ... This generation is the first to grow up with computers at home, music downloads, instant messaging and cellular phones." |
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Now I don't know of anyone born prior to 1985 that grew up with music downloads, instant messaging, or cellular phones. Computers, sure, if you count the old 386s and 486s. |
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I was born in 1983 and am a very proud member of Generation X. I am neither a Millennial nor a part of this "Generation Y". If you assume 22-year generations and put the beginning of Generation X as far back as 1961, then the end of Generation X is still 1983. And read the Gen X article; I don't think anyone would seriousely consider Demi Moore, Jim Carrey, or Courtney Love members of Generation X except perhaps for themselves (as hangers-on to a more youthful generation, and to separate themselves from their fellow baby-boomers). Furthermore, culturally speaking, those born between 1980 and 1985 have far more in common with those born between 1975 and 1980 than they do with those born between 1985 and 1990. Those born in the early 80's grew up on AC/DC, Black Sabbath, Guns n' Roses, were not generally exposed to computers until their teens, and are very securely part of the "Gen X Culture", whereas those born post-1985 are very securely part of Generation Y, with their instant messengers, cell phones, and 3-digit-bit videogame systems. |
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Those born in the early 1980's don't tend to think or act anything like Generation Y, and although at the lower end of the spectrum, could not accurately be described as anything but Generation X. This seriousely needs to be corrected. --[[User:Corvun|Corvun]] 07:19, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC) |
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:This is the whole problem with these generation articles. Generations such as X and "Y" aren't really defined by exact dates or even an really properly shared characteristics. A kid born in 1988 might feel much more at home with AC/DC than N'sync, and somebody born in 1978 the reverse. Similarly a child born in a rich family in the late 70s could easily have had a computer, just as a child without much money today could easily not have a computer, let alone cell phones etc... These "cultural traits" are pretty fluffy, and are absolutely not common to an entire generation. Personally I think they describe a segment of society fairly well, but not a real generation. I suppose this is true of many described generations, but with X and Y, perhaps becasue they are so recent and we can therefore see their reality, seem particularly bad in this respect. |
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:[[User:Peregrine981|Peregrine981]] 13:01, Oct 27, 2004 (UTC) |
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::Firstly, I'd like to apologize for any emotional charge present in my statements. My reaction was not at all befitting a Wikipedian. However, I think with Generations X and Y, there needs to be some overlap, as with the Babyboomers and Generation X. Saying that one generation ends exactly one year and another begins the next seems a little unjustifiable to me. I think people born in the early sixties, compared to younger Gen Xers, could easily be classified as Babyboomers, just as people born in the early eighties often consider themselves members of Generation X. |
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::Would there be any objection to having Generation X encompass, say, 1961 through 1986 (1961 being the earliest date ascribed to Gen X and 1987 being the latest possible date, assuming a 22-year generation and the year 1964 for the beginning of Gen X), and then having Generation Y encompass 1980 through 2002? There would only need to be a short paragraph on each page stating something to the effect that people born in the period of overlap may classify themselves as being part of either generation. I'd think this would be the most accurate reflection of how the generation are characterized and characterize themselves. After all, a cultural "generation" is nothing more than a social construct anyway, so the views of society as a whole should be just as valid as any "expert opinion". |
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::Come to think of it, both the social definitions/perceptions and the "expert" definitions could be contrasted, and these generation pages could actually start to resemble something of encyclopedic entries rather than just run-of-the-mill articles. |
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::Thoughts? --[[User:Corvun|Corvun]] 01:37, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC) |
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:::We should mention that there are many different ways of defining the generation, demographic, sociological, and popular. I like your idea of having overlapping years for the different generations, as this gives a more realistic view of the field. Giving specific dates is a bit of a trap as far as I'm concerned, there'll always be someone unhappy, but I guess we need to nail it down a bit. One of the big problems in defining the generation is that people born in the 1980s and 90s have parents of very different ages, giving them different perspectives on life. Their parents could be born anywhere from the early 40s to the 60s or early 70s. |
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:::[[User:Peregrine981|Peregrine981]] 03:59, Oct 28, 2004 (UTC) |
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:::: Yankelovich Partners and Bruce Tulgan have done some excellent research on "cusp" groups; http://www.tweeners.org bill themselves as not Boomers and not Xers, those caught in the middle born 1960 - 1965. |
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I agree with Corvun's thoughts on the dates. I was born in January of '82, and it strikes me as ridiculous to think that if I were two weeks older I'd technically be part of a different generation by some guidelines. I, too, feel more of a cultural divide between myself and those who were born in the mid- to late-80s than between myself and those born in the late-70s. I did not have a computer in my house until halfway through high school, and didn't have internet access until a year later. No one I knew had cell phones until buying them sometime in college or even after, and about half of my friends grew up without cable tv. So it seems silly to me to be lumped into a generation that is majorly defined as "growing up" surrounded by advanced technology. I also remember a lot more social and cultural things of the 80s and 90s than my brothers who were born in 1984, 1986, and 1990. It seems that, at least with the past few generations, if you were born in the early years of an odd-numbered decade you are right in the "core" of that particular generation, but if you were born in the early years of an even-numbered decade, you tend to feel borderline and not fully part of either (early 50s= core Baby Boomers, early 60s = borderline Baby Boomer and X; early 70s = core X, early 80s = borderline X and Y; early 90s = core Y). I read somewhere a few years ago about a mini-generation labeled "Generation Jones" that described people born in the late-50s to early-60s who didn't feel like they belonged in either generation they were on the cusps of, so maybe there is something like that going on with the late-70s through early-80s people. I think somewhere I was reading characterized "Generation Y" as being separate from both Generation X and the Millenial Generation, although (of course) their dates on this "in between" generation varied from mid-70s through late-70s to late-70s through mid-80s to anywhere in between. I don't know if other people around my age feel that the time we were born is sort of a transitional period between one generation and the next, but that is how I've seen it. Narrowing it down to a specific year seems wrong, especially when you're born on one of the years on either side of the divide, whereas saying more general things such as "early 60s through early 80s" allows for a bit more leeway in either direction. |
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[[User:Februarystar27|Februarystar27]] 23:00, 13 July 2005 (UTC) |
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:To add, I agree as well. I was born in June of '82, and do not fully consider myself as part of Generation X or Y. I identify with most people between the lowest-high limit of Gen X ('77) to the highest-low limit of Gen Y ('85), but not so much outside this group. [[User:Fëaluinix|Fëaluinix]] 06:18, 17 November 2005 (UTC) |
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:Please forward your attention to [[Talk:MTV_Generation|MTV Generation]] talk page, and help contribute to the article in order to define our isolated and forgotten generation which seems to be suffocated between Gen x and Gen Y. [[User:Piecraft|Piecraft]] 19:18, 29 November 2005 (UTC) |
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== Names == |
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Another matter for discussion is getting rid of a lot of the stupid names mentioned here. If its allright, I'm going to weed out a lot of them. Y, millenial, and echo seem to be fairly common. Others much less so. |
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[[User:Peregrine981|Peregrine981]] 04:03, Oct 28, 2004 (UTC) |
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=="Cultural Endowments"== |
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What is this "Twelve (novel, Nick McDonell)"? Is this really a "major cultural endowment", or is it just some guy seeking publicity for his book? Has anyone here heard of this before? If it really is some seminal work for our generation, hopefully someone can add an explanation of its significance, either here or on the wikipedia page for the author |
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=="Music"== |
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I believe that we should include a bit of information about the various subcultures listed namely: [[goth]], [[rave]], [[indie rock]] and [[emo]]. The rave scene in particular seems to define a lot about the nature of this generation (technogolically adept and open about sexuality and drug use). |
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It seems like there should be some mention of grunge music and its effects, notably a distain for high fashion and preppy music. |
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[http://www.azlyrics.us/226156 Anthem for the Year 2000 by Silverchair] does a good job of representing the backlash against our apathetic, corporate culture that so full of conformity, disillusionment and cynicism. Sheep that just follow the crowd. |
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The music section isn't written well, so I changed some of the bands mentioned. The groupings just aren't that coherent, there are more than 4 major musical subcultures. And, being an "indie rock" (or at least as defined by this article) kid myself, I like one of the bands that is mentioned in "indie rock" (Interpol). The Killers are too mainstream (they're on a major label, they have been from the start!) and Hawthorne Heights are definatly too emo to be considered indie rock. Indie rock kids are defined more by what music they like (music that is broad and tends to just be GOOD) rather than a collection of specific bands. Maybe some good bands to talk about liking for indie rock would be bands like Pavement or The Black Keys: your averege indie kid knows who thye are and they don't have much manstream appeal. |
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=="Isolated Generation?"== |
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"Few seem to be content to simply lead youthful lives, instead opting for greater things. They have mostly been fairly sheltered, exposed to great amounts of knowledge through a feeding tube." |
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I disagree with the idea that we are sheltered and would invite someone to change this. I believe that it is quiet the opposite. Our innocence died young with the spectur of STDs, school shootings, terrorism and war. The invention of the [[V-chip]] and [[net nanny]] were a back-lash against the information rich culture. |
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As a child I remember growing up watching to nightly news hearing about murders and arison. In grade school my classmates would "accidently" go to whitehouse.com . Knowledge wasn't entering through feeding tubes but rather news papers, TV, computers and personal experience. |
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Information should be included about the effect of the AIDS epidemic. |
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School shootings have also influenced this generation. I remember lock downs through out my education because of students bring guns to school or nearby gang fights. This was in the suburbs, not the inner city. We are hardly sheltered from the world. |
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I remember living through the [[September 11, 2001 attacks]] and watching the planes chash into the towers again and again. The Columbine school shootings were likewise nationally broadcast live as Generation Y watched realizing that this could happen at their schools too. The WTO protests in Seattle show an underlying anti-corporate backlash against our consumer society, while others completely buy into the latest fads. |
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Let's changes this article to truly reflect the nature of our generation and the events that have shaped who we are. |
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::I have to agre with whoever wrote the above comment. Whatever we decide to call Gen Y, we're not isolated. If you want to consider "involvement" as political action, then the only reason this generation is "isolated" is because so many of its members have yet to reach legal voting age. But this generation is very active in its world, for better or for worse. We always seem busy. We are at school, in extracurricular activities, and working where we want to. After 9/11, my school raised money for a charity. Don't surveys show how involved this generation is in their communities, with volunteer work and service hours? I also think members of this generation who still have to reach voting age (by the way, I'm using 1994 as the end of the birthyears because the article lists it that way)understand politics very well. I'm not gonna deny there are some idiots who wouldn't know current events to save their souls, but many know what happens in government and are very vocal about it, or at least where I live. [[User:Mred64|Mred64]] 18:21, August 9, 2005 (UTC) |
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:::I think the point was " They have mostly been fairly sheltered, exposed to great amounts of knowledge ''through a feeding tube''."" Many members of the generation have been exposed to vast amounts of knowledge, information, current affairs, etc... But, they have usually absorbed it mostly through TV, school, and to some extent the internet. At the same time large numbers are being driven to school, ferried from one extra curricular to the next, playing on safety council endorsed playgrounds, etc... The point being they are supervised to a large extent, and while they may have much information at their disposal, they aren't as free as previous generations, at least during their youth, and this may or may not have an effect on them. [[User:Peregrine981|Peregrine981]] 03:38, August 10, 2005 (UTC) |
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::::But isolated compared to what? Previously information was largely delivered in the US by way of censored newspapers and television. I think it would be safe to say that more unfiltered information is available by way of the internet than ever before, so calling the generation "isolated" doesn't seem to make much sense. On the other hand, the internet does allow people to become more reclusive in their local community and more active on a global scale. But the internet can of course also increase community connectedness. [[User:Theshibboleth|Theshibboleth]] 13:11, 5 September 2005 (UTC) |
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== 1982-GENERATION Y == |
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I don't know about anyone else but I was born in May 1982. Someone stated that they were born in 83' and considered themselves Generation X. Generation Y starts with the earky 80's. We don't realize how much more we have in common with our younger peers than Generation X. As time goes on older Y'ers will realize the similarities between our ninties born counterparts. |
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:I agree--I was born in '83, but I consider myself Gen Y, oddly enough. :) The kiddos who are 15-18 now I can relate to a lot easier than most of Gen X, those buncha slackers. (kidding!) [[User:172.198.255.253|172.198.255.253]] 14:21, 24 July 2005 (UTC) |
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I was born in 1978. I agree that there is a transition period. People in the Late 70s have the opposite problem of relating to Gen Y and not Gen X. |
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I also agree that similarities will become more visible as people grow up. In the past, Xers didn't want to include the late 70s. But now, they WANT to include 85! |
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August 2005 |
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Follow up....Basically, people stuck in between are a lost group of people. Someone from 1968 can call me an Xer, but they don't know nothing about what I went through. People from 1996-8 and 1999-2005 still have yet to determine which generation they identify with. Right now, someone from 1996 is in 4th grade and 2004 is still learning how to speak. By the time they grow up, they won't remember anything that happened in the 00s or 10s except for Spongebob. But there is already a tradition in place where older people determine younger people's identity without considering their views. I don't understand the use of that oppressive tradition. Give them a chance to grow up and speak for themselves. No offense, I'm just saying. I guess publicly everyone can say 1978 is X (even though I don't identify with them) or XY or something else. I don't want to impose my identity on others younger than me or change the agreement on 1982 start date. But, in my heart, 1978 will never be X. Never ever let Gen X swallow up the 80s. They have to learn their generation ends mid 70s. Meanwhile, there is such a thing as an in-between generation. |
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September 2005 |
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== Generation Y: 1982-2001 == |
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Hi, I was born in 1989 and am a part of Generation Y, and believe that these dates represent this generation best. |
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For one, Generation Y should start somewhere from 1981 to 1983 because the cut off from Generation X was actually the Video Game Crash of 1983, and video games are a big part of Generation Y society today as well as alternative music. |
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September 11th should be the cut off date for Generation Y because it effected us physically, both GenX and GenY. |
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It dosen't really matter where X or Y begin or end any way, it just depends on where you wish to be. Like if you was born between 1978 or 1985, you could be both. These kind of topics kind of overlap, so when it starts and where it ends, you could be Generation XY. The same applide for the "2nd Lost generation"(1964 - 1970) which were people born in-between the Baby Busters and Generation X, they had mixed pop culture. And the same applise for Generation Z, the end for Y could be 2001, but the start of Z could be...1999. |
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Therefore GenY starts (1979-1983) and ends (1999 - 2005). [[List of Generations]] |
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*If one uses the terrorist attacks as a cutoff, then it can't be the actual day of the attacks (stupid symbolism) but rather the age at which a person could reasonably be expected to have first-hand knowledge, remembrance and understanding of what happened. That would be at least, say, six years of age. [[User:FCYTravis|FCYTravis]] 03:53, 2 October 2005 (UTC) |
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_____________________________________________________________________________________________________ |
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lol. I'm from 1978. I've read articles telling me that I'm not X at all, but the start of the Y's (Time magazine had an article saying it begins with those born in 1977), and I've read articles telling me that I'm the tail end of the Xers. To be honest I relate more to the Xers, but only just, just because I relate more to alienation and anticonsumerism, then to technogidget consumerism. |
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I was into grunge and funk metal as a teenager (X music) and the subculture that fused hippy and punk, and also industrial rock (Y music) and the rivetgoth suculture, and classic 60s and 70s rock like Cat Stevens, Pink Floyd, Hendrix, the Doors and Zeppelin (Babyboomer's music) - all of which I listened to simultaneously, I never liked Nu-metal, nu-ska, or Californian pop punk (because they were purile and commercial). |
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My brother and sister were squarely in the X category, but my friends' brothers and sisters were often squarely in the Y category. My Dad was the tail end of the silent generation, but had elements of baby boomer and my mother was the start of the baby boomers but had elements of the silent generation. |
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I vaguely remember seeing the Challenger explode - I think I was six at the time, and only just remember the effect of cold war politics on action movies, bomb shelters and the Olympics - but I was well out of high school by the time of the September 11 attacks. I grew up with a computer in my house - an Apple IIc, and had the internet and its related bomb recipes and pornography before I was out of high school, but didn't see people carrying mobile phones everywhere until my third year of University. |
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In high school I felt akin to people born 1975-1981, now I feel akin to people born 1970-1985. |
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As someone who's always fallen between the gaps I feel these generalizations to be too all encompasing. If they alter the definitions to allow for overlap so that I am both X & Y, or if they say that I'm an in betweener fine. If they say that I'm one generation and someone a year younger than me is another I think it's a crock. [[User:61.68.24.115|61.68.24.115]] 09:31, 25 September 2005 (UTC)Me[[User:61.68.24.115|61.68.24.115]] 09:31, 25 September 2005 (UTC) |
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== Generation Why? == |
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I always thought it was called '''Generation Why?''' Also the term "Generation Why?" gets 43,600 Google hits. --[[User:Kitch|Kitch]] 16:47, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC) |
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== Sorry, people... == |
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... but there's no other way of saying it: this whole thing is a giant, factually inaccurate, insulting piece of s**t! -- [[User:Imladros|Imladros]] 03:19, 14 August 2005 (UTC) |
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:Amen brother! |
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I am researching the topic of generation y because i am being forced to write a piece on it for a university application for admission. this is all a whirlwind to me. |
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== You really need to fix up the Music & Subculture paragraph... == |
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The mention of the pop revival is important but the whole section gets too specific about liking |
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Why don't we stick in pure statistics - birth rates for the supposed time period this generation encompasses, populations, etc; also, instead of saying things like "marijuana use is on the rise" actually cite statistics for drug use trends in the generation (you might find that drug use has gone up in this generation as compared to generation X) |
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also, events which shaped the generation around the world - wars in the middle east, terrorism, etc. etc. |
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== Current problems of the generation == |
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From what i've seen in statistical evidence the use of marijuana in high schoolers has remained about the same for the past 30 years, same with sex if i recall, i dont have a source so i wont edit but its something to ponder. --[[User:Cptbuck|Cptbuck]] 02:28, 23 September 2005 (UTC) |
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== Generation Y? Give me a break == |
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The definition is simple. The generation under discussion is simply "the generation which will one day get rich via the spurious invention, slick packaging and feverish marketing of '[[Generation Z]]'" [[User:Adambisset|Adambisset]] 01:32, 25 September 2005 (UTC) |
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*It should be noted that some of the first labels for Generation X included 'Post-Boom'. It's just a term, I'm sure it'll be obsolete when we come into power. |
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:"Come into power"? Hehe, I like the way that sounds. >:D--[[User:Kross|Kross]] | [[User talk:Kross|Talk]] 05:30, 15 November 2005 (UTC) |
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==63.156.189.107 edits== |
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I've reverted most of the "Firsts" added by 63.156.189.107 and am considering removing the last 3. Most of these claims are completely unsupported. I don't have a problem adding some of them back in some capacity '''provided''' sources for these claims are posted here in the discussion page.--[[User:Isotope23|Isotope23]] 19:52, 26 September 2005 (UTC) |
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== 'ME.first' generation == |
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While I have no concrete research to backup this statement I feel it necessary at least to contribute my own research and observations so that at some point in the future once the boundaries of Gen Y are satisfied this may also be considered. |
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Predominantly in the western culture a possible sub culture that, in currently unsupported research, has developed is what an increasing number of individuals are beginning to refer to as the 'ME.first' generation. Initial speculation inicates that they could be crudely characterized as children of the early Generation Ys (possibly late Generation Xers) parents who, along with teachers, society and information technology have spoiled their kids to the point where they posses no patience, no consideration for others (ie. "Me First") and maintain the constant and ongoing expectation to have their needs meet before others. First online sighting for this term was viewed [http://x.marijan.com/wiki/index.php/Development:Oracle:oraback_sh#The_fixed_file here]. |
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''-While no other data is currently available to support these claims it should remain here for possible use in future cleanup efforts. Reviewing the current talk on this topic it is clear that boundaries of this generation may not likely be defined for sometime. Nevertheless, once the time comes if this point is still valid this may the first mention of it.'' |
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== Gen Y Queers? == |
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Perhaps it's daft to expect such in-depth coverage on my generation, but regarding alternative sexualities and the like does anyone have any info on how this generations' queers differ at all from previous generations? For instance, I read not too long ago on MSNBC that same-sex experimentation is highest amongst young women than ever before, whilst same-sex experimentation is nearly the same amongst young males. Should this be considered a unique trait of our genration or just a result of social conditioning? I find "gay activism" to be less prevelant in Gen Y queers than those born in a different demographics as well. This is mere speculation, but this could be due to the fact that Gen Y as a whole remains fairly apathetic towards activism in comparison to previous generations. Even when faced with discrimination during adolescence there seems to be an ambivalent feeling toward "gay agendas" amongst Gen Y queers. Also, the growing popularity of bisexuality/bi-curiousity amongst Gen Y people needs to be addressed somewhere, in my opinion, as it seems very popular now amongst fellow college students (both male and female) and especially with females in the latter years of high school. |
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Just food for thought. |
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== Generation Y as parents == |
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A month or so ago I added the discussion about Generation Y as parents. Today I noticed that ALL of this has been deleted. |
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This new phenomenon really needs to be discussed, because significant numbers of Yers have been parents for some years now or are currently becoming parents, and the relationship between them and the younger generation (now usually called Generation Z) should be examined. |
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Many of the other discussions look like they've been chopped off as well, indeed, this article now has much less content than it did before. |
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--- |
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I concur. I've known a lot of teen mothers come of late and the complete change in parental style is astounding. This shouldn't be covered up just because it's not the majority. |
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There needs to be an established end date for this generation so we can settle on a beginning point for Generation Z. I think 2002 seems fair enough as an end to Gen Y? |
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This way we can all agree on a beginning point for Generation Z or Generation Fat or whatever. |
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P.S. I also think Gen Y should begin at '77. We're just going to have to accept that even within this single generation there are going to be a multitude of experiences /slash/ perspectives thanks in large part to living in completely different times than generations before us. Those that were coming of age during the tail end of Gen X's grasp on pop culture are obviously going to relate differently to those that did so during 9/11. And so on and so forth. Right? |
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== "Music and subcultures" is silly == |
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This whole section is pure conjecture. |
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First it relies on the false idea that marketers only recently started targeting teenagers with marketing music at them. The monkees were a pure marketing music phenomena in 1966 and they weren't the first either. |
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There is no evidence for the following wild claims. |
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''The musical tastes of some Generation Y have fragmented into various countercultures |
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As usual, the subcultures have aligned themselves along musical lines, with some refusing to put on the aesthetic expression of counterculture, yet remaining significantly detached from the “mainstream.” |
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It is important to note that although many bands and acts attempt to engage Generation Y, there is little authentic representation of the generation in popular culture that is not engineered and marketed by older generations. This is a seldom articulated point of contention that may explain the generation's relative ambivalence to pop culture.'' |
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Please edit. |
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--[[User:Capsela|Capsela]] 21:03, 22 November 2005 (UTC) |
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== 1983 - Generation Y? bollocks! == |
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I along with a multitude of others I know who were born in the early eighties do not consider ourselves Gen Y at all, which was a term that was only recently coined prior to the Millennium. I believe that the Gen Y'ers are those who were born right before the Millennium and whose childhood consisted of living through the late 90s through the millennium and teenage years are currently in the New Millennium. |
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None of the attributes listed on this article relating to Gen Y are what I consider myself or my peers associated to in any way. My childhood was lived through the 80s thus being influenced by it, of which I remember seeing the most important events which were the fall of the Berlin wall and the Gulf War. Most kids who grew up past 1985 don't even remember these events or managed to see them - whereas I and others have. Also the fact that most kids of the 80s were teens through the early 90s up until mid 90s proves that we were more open to the music of that time, unlike indie rock and nu-metal which if anything has nothing to do with the growth of our own generation but more so an element relating to those born post-1985. Music which was relevant to us was grunge, eurodance (techno), gangsta rap as well as retro pop (the pre-Britney era of music) just to name a few. [[User:Piecraft|Piecraft]] 02:44, 28 November 2005 (UTC) |
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== The effects of the ''Bush-approved'' and widely criticized RAVE Act in America. == |
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Strange. When I follow the link to the [[RAVE Act]], I find no mention of George W. Bush. The '''only''' name that is mentioned is that of Senator Josheph Biden ('''D'''-DE). Yes, it was signed by Bush into law, but nearly ALL law is approved by the President, since few bills have the popularity to garner a two-thirds majority to overcome a veto. Should we go through Wikipedia and note every law that some may find unpopular and label them as approved by that President, unless they had been vetoed by the President? If we do that, there will be some very surprising and unpopular laws that were approved by Bill Clinton. |
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I recommend removing the "Bush Approved", or even better is remove the entire entry since it has very little noticeable affect on culture in the United States. |
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==Gen Y The First Gen With CD's?== |
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That is not true; the Compact Disc was introduced in 1983 supplanted vinyl in '88, was the clear winner by 1990 and overtook cassette in 1992; when the oldest Ys were just starting high school and the youngest weren't even alive yet. Gen X was the first generation to have CDs, thus I have taken away the note that Gen Y experienced CDs frist |
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DVDs are Y though and Gen Y is more or less totally unfamiliar with vinyl records, even though they were around up to the early nineties. |
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==Serious Problem== |
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I can't believe this hasn't come up yet, but the fine folks at Pepsico have already resolved the generational naming dispute. I propose the title be changed to "The Pepsi Generation" |
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== Who, What, Y? == |
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I added this article as an external link. It covers some points that I don't think the wiki entry has. Maybe someone can take some stuff from this article. |
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Some interesting stuff I saw was the anti-political corectness thing and also this bit: |
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Huntley agrees: “Organised religion used to provide a moral framework to react against, which is what the boomers did. They created a counter-revolution against everything society had said should be done a certain way. That some of their children, who grew up with the resulting moral relativism, are looking around for an ethical code shouldn’t surprise anyone. That is the appeal of organisations like Hillsong which provide an entire lifestyle and clear guidance about the choices people should make.” |
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I know a lot of my peers (I was born 1982 but these kids were 85/86) with no real family religious background seem very confused about things like morality, ethics, reasons of life and have thrown themselves into church. |
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Also, I think I am listed in Gen Y but I think I relate more to Gen X. I think Fight Club is a definitive gen x movie/book and I really related to it.... |
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==INCOHERENT Bush/Kerry election results== |
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Paragraph from article: |
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"The 2004 Presidential election was the first election in which Generation Y was able to vote in significant numbers. John Kerry received most of the votes. Notwithstanding, the ratio between young voters voting Democratic or for the incumbent George W. Bush remained relatively stable, suggesting that Gen Y may in fact be reflective of American society as a whole rather than a defined independent generation in itself." |
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Now what does that last sentence mean? If Kerry received "most" of the votes of this generation, then how was the ratio within Gen Y of Bush to Kerry votes even remotely close to that ratio for American society as a whole (by which presumably they mean American VOTERS as a whole-- two different things), when not only did Kerry receive way less than MOST votes, he also received fewer than Bush did! I'm not a Bush supporter or alleging POV violation, I'm just wondering what whoever wrote this was trying to say. |
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-I think what it's trying to say is, if you look at any election in the twentieth century, the people who happen to be in their late teens/early twenties at the time of the election are more likely to vote liberal, and therefore, it cannot be stated definitively that liberal politics are a characteristic of Gen. Y, but that they are a characteristic of being young, regardless of the generation. |
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== Digital section quite innacurate. == |
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"those born in the early 1980s probably did not own a computer until their preteen or teen years in the early to mid-1990s." |
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Patently false. the Apple ][, Commodore64 and TRS80 personal computers were a huge hit in the very early 80's, and were commonly available in the homes of genx'ers (even if they didn't own them outright). |
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It may be more accurate to mark the boundary with the presence of computers in everyday life. Late gen-xers (such as myself (1974))remember a time when computers were very rarely seen. Around 1978, computers started showing up at POS systems, banks, movies, TV etc etc). |
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Generation Y'ers have always been surrounded by computers, and would not find their presence remarkable, or even interesting. |
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: I'm from 1978. I remember 1990 and watching a newscast talking about how the birth rate was so high that year and they said congratulations to the parents. By 1991-2 I could have been someone's parent because I was 13-14. I remember wondering how it would be like having so many people around in the future. Ok, I know I'm old!! How many times have the dates changed on this page? People keep on changing the dates between 1977 and mid 80s. I think this page should be for those born mid 80s-?. And those born late 70s should go to [[MTV Generation]]. 1977-85 numbers around 32 million people in the US. 1985-1995 is way above 40 million people. These are two different groups. If we keep on combining together, this page isn't going to describe either of us. Worse, it's not going to describe the majority of Millennial people who were born around the 90s, which is unfair. They are the majority and they own the name, so they should describe this group, not the [[MTV Generation]], not Generation X either. They (1985-?) are the best judges of what their generation is. It's not worth it to put all this hard work into this article, when it gets erased the next day by either group. We'll never agree. We might as well just split. Likewise, about the person above talking about Comodore64 and TRS80 - that would be of more interest to the MTV Generation rather than the Millennial Generation because we remember it, they don't. Like how libraries were still using those old index cards for looking books up, how we actually wrote letters to each other through the mail, or faught over the home phone. And the computers we had didn't have internet. We were living in the stone age compared to them. Same thing with that section on "Hip Hop Rise/Fall of Rock and Roll" and "Acceptance of Adult-Oriented Media" because they were still being born at that time. I'm thinking that if they were born at that time, then they won't care about it, so how can that define what they are? The only thing it does is prove differences with other generations, not identity. Previous generations don't have the authority to go in and define it. Am I right? Shouldn't this be what they care about/influenced them because that affects what they will do throughout their lives? r430nb 12/18 |
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REPLY: Gen Y is 1983-1996. I'm 1990-born. Maybe 1997-2001 could squeeze in there too; it depends how culturally similar they are to '80s and early '90s kids. I'm kinda iffy about having kids born after the 2000 mark be Gen Y, or really even have post-1996 kids be in the gen because 1997 was such a changeful year and they would at best be only 4 years old when 9/11 happened, although I'm sure they would have slight memories of Gulf War II. Above somebody said 1990ers shouldn't be Gen Y! That's ridiculous, I have much more in common with an '85er than with even a '95er. |
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I'd say 1986-1992 is the core of Gen Y; 1977-1985 it really depends on personality whether you're X or Y, 1993-2001 time will have to tell the exact bound between Y and "Z" but I'm pretty sure that kids born prior to 1997 are Yers and not Zers. 1990 is DEFINITELY Gen Y, no argument. |
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Not that I'm proud of my "Y-hood". |
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Sorry, I know 1990 is part of Gen Y. I meant something else - that 1990 was part of Y, but for those that fall in between, it's hard to put a boundary separating one from the next. Like he said above, it depends on personality. Ok, forget about what I said about 77-85, what I meant is that there is a group of years that fall in between X and Y where people identify with a combination of both, either or neither. It's not like one year is X and the next year everyone is Y, like how Strauss and Howe portray it. They say that just because the baby on board sticker was invented and people became more protective over their children in 1982 that it totally made them different from people a year before. If you grew up in these boundary years, you would see it's more like a group of years where people totally disagree with one another of each other's identity and that there is no right or wrong identity at all, but common experiences from growing up at the same time. There is no definiteness in belonging to a specific generation. In fact, there is more conflict in this group over common identity than in people in core years of generations. So, even if Generation Y starts at 82 or 83 or 86, that doesn't mean that the years before that are X. I'm just speculating, but a similar thing seems to be going on with the late 90s as well and how people are so eager to put a label on them when there might be none at all. This and many other similar experiences makes us a group, but we are less likely to determine exact boundaries as we've been through all that drama. This whole subject on Generation Y is still new, so verifiable sources may not match what people think. Who has more authority - Strauss and Howe, the Gale group, previous generations, or the people who actually come from Generation Y? Of coarse, it's going to be the person who comes from Generation Y (1990), right? When people are the subject of discussion, then verifiable sources will always be biased one way or another. So, in terms of boundary, there should be no boundary at all, but an intermediate group between both generations that has no conflict with either generation and is supportive of both. [[user:r430nb|r430nb]] 12/18 |
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REPLY: |
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Thank you. But let me get something clear: are you implying 1990 can be Gen Z to some? If you are, I respect your opinion but completely disagree. |
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Late 80s is definitely the core of Y, but considering Gen Y is thought of as the "Second Baby Boom" and 1990 had huge birth rates, along with the '80s I think a 1990er is definitely in the same league as an '87er or '89er. |
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Maybe 1994-2001 is "Gen YZ" or whatever, but absolutely not 1990. |
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== Original research == |
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I think the Majority of this artical should be scraped as most of it falls under [[WP:NOR]], I have no objection to the concept itself. The artical reads like an essay that belongs in a journal with aruments not facts. And can any one tell me who is Kevin Cryderman? -[[User:Fabhcún|Fabhcún]] 22:10, 26 December 2005 (UTC) |
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:If I don't have evidence, it's POV. If I do have evidence, then, it's original research. So, I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. [[user:r430nb|r430nb]] |
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What evidence do you have and who is Kevin Cryderman?-[[User:Fabhcún|Fabhcún]] 23:03, 27 December 2005 (UTC) |
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Ok, I guess I'm ignorant about KEvin Cryderman, you got me, but only because I've been spending so much time and energy trying to get facts to support the [[MTV Generation]] and the accompanying [[List of MTVers]], which is ok, but now they are going to delete the list of MTVers even though I found a quote from Reese Witherspoon confessing that she didn't belong to Generation X. That is more evidence than the list of celebrities in Gen X. Now they are going to delete MTV generation, even though I found sources for that too. So, now you know why I don't have enough in me to look for Cryderman. If you don't, it's because people don't try to help out, nor do they try to give a reasonable amount of time for a person to find sources, they just vote for deletion right away. But it's too late now because [[user:Piecraft|Piecraft]] just quit. The proof is there on the MTV Generation page for a "cusp" group between X and Y, please look through it and the list of MTVers and vote "keep" in the "this articles entry". Yes, I would be supportive of waiting until Generation Y has their stuff together before putting a label or description on them, but for the cusp group in between, the time has come to start defining who we are. BTW, there are no definite boundaries for the cusp group unlike most generations claiming that they end and begin on a single year (which is rediculous). Someone said they were from 1985, can they please look through the MTV generation page to see if it includes them or not and don't forget to vote "Keep". [[user:r430nb|r430nb]] |
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:Yes thats fine but why dont you do one thing at a time then you can conentrait on geting the artical right with citations first, the point is you seem to gallop along with out letting the dust settle [[User:Fabhcún|Fabhcún]] 01:48, 28 December 2005 (UTC) |
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== It's too early. == |
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I think it's still too early to be making any assumptions about this generation yet. I was born in 1985, so I guess I'm definitley part of this generation. I think it's too early because many generation yers are in their late teens and early 20s still, some of them even still in middle school. We still have the 2010s to work on! Let's take generation x for example. IN the 80s, most of them already in their teens and twenties, and they didn't really get a label until the early 90s (grunge). Kurt Cobain and Eddie Vedder are gen xers, and they were 24 and 27 when they became famous respectively. So this generation still has a while to go I'm sure, until we can make any definite assumptions and generalities yet. |
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:so are you for deleting this page or just accknoledging the term briefy-[[User:Fabhcún|Fabhcún]] 00:45, 28 December 2005 (UTC) |
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::I was just acknowledging the term briefly and I was bored. I believe this page needs to stay, but I don't believe some of the things (ie popular culture) should be used to be used to define us yet. Our time in popular culture is more than likely not over yet. This is just my opinion though. |
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== New Changes == |
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------------ |
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January 5, 2006- I've added around 16 new links divided into several catagories. A part of this includes two foreign links as well. |
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Quote- :''Thanks for the contribution''. [[user:r430nb|r430nb]] |
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Glad I can help! :-) |
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------------ |
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December 28, 2005 |
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As you can see there have been several changes as of December,28th 2005. This is my first actual posting with Wikipedia so I apologize for any errors and will correct them if they are pointed out. However it did appear that there were several sections of this article that did in fact need revising so I went ahead because of several errors including.... |
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"''The majority of Generation Xers, however, clearly do not believe that people born at the end of the 1970s belong in their generation, as these people would have been no older than elementary school children or in early adolescence (or, for the youngest, not even born) when the definitive rock bands Nirvana and Pearl Jam became popular in 1991''." |
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This is based only on opinion, and as a late 76r who suddenly finds himself cutoff from his peers, not a very good one. I have a hard time believing that there is more in common between me and someone born in 1965 who listened to Kiss at age 14 in 1979, then my very own friends and classmates. People born in 1979 were already in high school when Cobain committed suicide, so it's hard to believe that someone only 4 months younger belongs to the same group that grew up on Barney and Teletubbies. |
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''Birth rates in the United States peaked around 1983-87 and have dropped considerably since then, but remain higher than in the 1960s– early to mid '70s.'' |
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This is out and out incorrect. If you take a look at the (CDC report- Table 1-1. Live Births, Birth Rates, and Fertility Rates, by Race: United States,1909-2000 )you'll see that there has never been a birthrate higher since 1971's rate at 17.2% per 1000. In reality this report proves that the so called "babybust" and "echoboom" are misconceptions. |
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''The cohort comprises those born in the late 20th Century, between the years 1977 - 1994'' |
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While common, this dating system is only one of many popular spans of Gen Y. Both this and the "MTV generation entry" are determined to make 1977 the official start of what is considered Gen Y. |
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Although many people on this page have complained about the sections dealing with music, culture, ect, I decided to leave these area's basically alone since I am not an authority on what "core" Y's do in fact like. However many of the artists and entertainment that is listed is in fact produced by "core" xrs and is enjoyed by them as well. It seems that the popular belief is that Xrs simply had nothing more to contribute to society and simply disappeared after Cobain committed suicide. But I do realize that this article does recognize the Xr contribution to modern society. |
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Here is a listing of my changes- |
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1-Rewrote Introduction |
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2-Replaced 1990's with 2000's to recognize the entire combined birthspan of both Gen X and Y. |
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3-Removed Boundries section and combined new information with the introduction. |
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4-Removed first paragraph of Generation Y in the United States since it was only one set of dates being presented as the only official one. |
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5-Added the definition of what the "echo boom" actually was. |
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6-Removed from the culture section the phrase ''This generation was also the first to experience: '' since every generation experienced these events at the same time. Instead I replaced it with "This generation experienced these events as they came of age". |
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7-Added long requested references which I can add more. |
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It's too late to continue as I write this but I plan on adding a lot more external links to help deepen this article. |
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I don't want to step on anyone's toes by doing this and realize that all my work can be wiped out. But I had to say something because this is one of the issues that effects me deeply. I have a little experience on this topic, posting articles and having active memberships on generational forums such as the Fourthturning, the old Generation X-Aimoo forum, and briefly even hosting my own called "Generational Nexus". I don't normally write such lengthy introductions but this is my first activity here at the Wikipedia. |
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[[User:Echo Nomad|Wyn]] 08:08, 28 December 2005 (UTC) |
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:Thanks for the contribution. [[user:r430nb|r430nb]] |
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==Where used - not outside the US and Canada?== |
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January 5, 2006 |
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As stated above I've added two links to articles dealing with Gen Y outside the U.S. What I've seen researching this topic, the term Gen Y is popular outside of America. |
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[[User:Echo Nomad|Wyn]] |
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Please stop adding that these terms are used only in North America. [[User:SlimVirgin|SlimVirgin]] <sup><font color="Purple">[[User_talk:SlimVirgin|(talk)]]</font></sup> 21:41, 31 December 2005 (UTC) |
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:It's true though. This whole "generation theory" stuff based on [[Generations (book)|this book]]/[[Strauss and Howe]] isn't used by practically anyone outside of the US/Canada, and ''that'''s unsubstantiated quackery in any case.. --''[[User:Mistress Selina Kyle|<span style="color:#18186b;text-decoration:underline">Mistress Selina Kyle</span>]] <sup>'''<span style="color:#800080">(</span>'''[[User_talk:Mistress Selina Kyle|<span style="color:#18186b;cursor:help;">Α⇔Ω</span>]] ¦ [[Special:Emailuser/Mistress Selina Kyle|<span style="color:#18186b;cursor:help;">⇒✉</span>]]'''<span style="color:#800080">)</span>'''</sup>'' 21:46, 31 December 2005 (UTC) |
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::Do some research before engaging in revert wars. [http://www.grb.uk.com/generation_y.0.html] [http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/4552511.stm] [[User:SlimVirgin|SlimVirgin]] <sup><font color="Purple">[[User_talk:SlimVirgin|(talk)]]</font></sup> 00:55, 1 January 2006 (UTC) |
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I can't speak for anywhere else, but in England "Generation Y" is often used, at least informally, to describe this generation. While the interests and defining characteristics of the generation may vary from country to country, "Generation Y" doesn't seem like an unreasonable one to use as a name. |
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Some examples: |
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*[http://bookshop.libdems.org.uk/item.jsp?ID=4513 "Generation Y: A Liberal Generation"] - pamphlet affiliated with the English [[Liberal Democrats]] party |
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*[http://features.conceptcar.co.uk/gm2001/youthmarket.php Concept car website] - refers to General Motors' new targeting of Generation Y |
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*[http://www.lg-employers.gov.uk/press/2003_news/mj_1509.html UK government article] - how to market civil service jobs to members of Generation Y |
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*[http://www.thefword.org.uk/features/2001/12/rebranding_feminism_geethika_jayatilakas_talk Online UK feminism magazine] - refers to convincing Generation Y of the merits of feminism |
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You can find a really diverse range of uses of "Generation Y" in UK media by Google searching [http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Generation%20Y%22%20site:.uk "Generation Y" site:.uk]. |
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--[[User:Jacj|Jacj]] 02:38, 1 January 2006 (UTC) |
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:Thank you for finding all those sources, Jacj. [[User:SlimVirgin|SlimVirgin]] <sup><font color="Purple">[[User_talk:SlimVirgin|(talk)]]</font></sup> 04:10, 3 January 2006 (UTC) |
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== Why Gen Y starts in 1978 == |
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I find this a very intriguing discussion...as a person who is extremely interested in generational theory, this is right up my alley. That said, I am very comfortable with 1978 being the year that starts Generation 'Y'. As a member of that cohort, I have always noticed that there seemed to be a difference between people my age and younger and those older. Those who are older tended to be rather "angsty" and more independent, while people my age were more cheerful and goal/structure-oriented. I've been researching this stuff from time to time for four years, and I think that there is pretty good evidence out there that makes 1977/78 an excellent delineation. Here is some of it: |
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1) The Internet - I would venture to say that the majority of people feel that the Internet exploded roughly in the fall of 1995/winter of 1996. Therefore, we are the first cohort to have experienced the Internet before we graduated high school and became adults. I remember hearing how people who were just a couple of classes above us in college were amazed at how much we knew about computers and the Internet, and that it was almost scary...like we all could teach the computer lab assistants a thing or two. |
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2) Education - The 1978 cohort is the first cohort that wasn't in the K-12 system when the famous "Nation at Risk" came out during the spring of 1983. Immediately after this groundbreaking survey, there were numerous changes that took place in the educational system, and we were oftentimes the first recipients of these changes. For instance, some school districts like Minneapolis started testing children at the end of kindergarten to see if they would be fit for first-grade...never before has that type of "back to basics" standardized testing taken place. Also, New York City started full day kindergarten the year we started school...given the problems NYC had just before this time, it was an incredible feat. |
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3) Stress - If you are familiar with the UCLA's Freshman Survey, which is performed on college freshmen every year, it asks freshmen numerous questions regarding their views on various issues, ranging from political to personal. One of the questions that is asked is whether you were frequently overwhelmed with all you had to do during your senior of high school. Between the classes of 1995 (77 cohorts) and 1996 (78 cohorts), there was a marked increase in the percentage that said "yes"...and this jump stood up in subsequent years, so it was not a statistical fluke. At the same time, there was a similar increase in the percentage of students who received A or A- averages...whereas in previous years, the percentage was stagnant. This gives evidence that the "stress for success" syndrome was clearly being felt at this time. |
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There are numerous other reasons, but I won't mention them now...but it seems that there is a pretty wide gap. Culturally, there also seems to be (at least anecdotedly) evidence of a gap. It seems that whenever someone born in 1976, 77 talks about their 80s experiences, they mention Atari, 80s music and movies. But it seems that for people my age and younger, it's Nintendo, cartoons and toys...more childish stuff. |
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:Interesting, some late 70s people like Y and some early 80s people like X. Opposites. [[user:r430nb|r430nb]] |
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Let's just look at it this way, if you were born circa 1977-1981, then you're not really Gen X and not really Gen Y culturally speaking. You were too young to remember the 80s Teen Movie craze and too old to openly admit to liking the Teen Movie craze of the early 2000s (we're not talking "American Pie," but movies with Sarah Michelle Gellar and the like). The same goes for boybands. I was 18 years old when Backstreet Boys first became big. While I was still in high school (I'm from Ontario, Canada, where there was, at that time an extra year of high school (OAC)), other people my age would have already started university. In terms of technology, many of us didn't see our first computers until we were well into elementary school. If we owned a PC, they ran on DOS (remember that???). Many of us worked on Commodore 64s. Unlike the "real Millenials/Gen Y" we aren't talked about very much, perhaps even ignored by the media. We didn't really have the "teen idols" that REAL Gen Ys do (i.e. we were pushing 20, if not already there, when many of the "teen stars" of the early 2000s became famous). We're kind of like the Babyboomers who were born in the early 60s. That generation (which my parents are a part of) is often associated with peace and the Beatles to name two. How can someone born in 1960 really associate him or herself with the Beatles when they were only three or four years old when John, Paul, Ringo and George played on the Ed Sullivan Show? By the time they moved into their university dorms, Disco had taken over sit-ins. Not to mention, the early baby-boomers were already having kids in the 70s. Yet, they too are labelled as "baby-boomers." [[User:Writerchick|Writerchick]] 05:37, 8 January 2006 (UTC) |
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''It seems that whenever someone born in 1976, 77 talks about their 80s experiences, they mention Atari, 80s music and movies. But it seems that for people my age and younger, it's Nintendo, cartoons and toys...more childish stuff.'' |
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According to this statement, only those born after 1977 experienced the 80's as a child, which is completely false. A '''76'''r experienced the '''80's''' from age '''3 to 13''', not 13 to 23. Yes our parents had Atari's, and we also had Nintendo's, played with toys like GI Joes and Transformers, and watched all kinds of cartoons throughout the 80's. |
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[[User:Echo Nomad|Wyn]] |
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==Gen Y?== |
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:Gen X is a historical thing, the people who grew up "in the shadow" of the Baby boomers, their children. I'm not sure there's any real historical significance to a Gen Y other than people like to name things for naming sake. --[[User:DanielCD|DanielCD]] 04:21, 10 January 2006 (UTC) |
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--- |
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I basically agree. When I originally posted my version I called Gen Y a marketers term because in fact it was invented by marketers according to the ADAge article reference here to describe those born from 1974 to 1980. Generation X was first invented by social authors Jane Deverson and Charles Hamblet to describe Baby Boomers back in 1964. Then author Douglas Coupland used in 1990 the term to describe his peers born around 1961. |
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[[User:Echo Nomad|Wyn]] |
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Latest revision as of 12:36, 4 June 2025
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Discussions:
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I understand many sources say this generation is about 15 years long. However, the article says nothing about Strauss–Howe generational theory. S&H were very clear in previous books that generations are typically 20-25 years long, with a few exceptions such as Silent and Gen X which are smaller. The size of a generation is determined by it's age ie. Boomers are a big generation largely because they lasted for nearly 25 years. Because they were large size they dominated culture. The smaller generations were squeezed out to the margins. This article is saying in effect Millennials are a historically small generation, they only lasted 15 years. It makes no sense. I feel like this article cherry picked sources that support the 15 year age, and avoided reporting sources that give it a longer age, thus bigger size and bigger cultural influence.
What's happened now is every generation is 15 years old. Typically a generation is defined by a daughter -> mother -> grandmother. That's 3 generations. They typically last 20 to 25 years between them. Although these days more like 30 years. So I really do think the generations have gotten messed up, because every commercial interest wants to declare a new generation every couple years, because this is how they sell books, reports, consulting services, advertising, etc..
In any case, our article has no information as to what Strauss–Howe generational theory says is the length of the Millennial generation. Even though they were the first to coin and define it, and are probably the single most influential generation theory writers around. The last I read anything on this topic was a long time ago, but S&H were saying they believed it would end around 2006 or so, and be one of the biggest and most influential generations. Not the smaller shorter less influential generation this article defines. -- GreenC GreenC 17:32, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
- The Date Range section deals with the different age theories, and mentions Strauss-Howe in that context: "Author Neil Howe, co-creator of the Strauss–Howe generational theory, defines Millennials as being born from 1982 to 2004". The Baby Boomer article defines the boomer generation spanning 1946–1964 (19 years), and that was based on birthrates rather than a traditional interpretation of a "generation". If we go with the Strauss-Howe definition for millenials, that would put Gen X between 1965–1981 (17 years), and millenials 19 years, so the demographic cohort seems to have 18-year iterations give or take a year. The prevailing date range for millenials (1981–1996) does seem to be prematurely curtailed, and appears to contradict its own definition (i.e. the trans-millennial generation) by excluding those born 1997–2000, but as editors we don't have much control over that. I think the article probably does reflect the weighting of views found in reliable sources, and yes it is at odds with a more intuitive understanding of what a generation is. Betty Logan (talk) 18:11, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
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- Thank you for pointing out S&H is mentioned. It should have higher placement and explanation, maybe its own section. After all, they invented the idea of a Millennial generation, and wrote entire books about it.
- From our article, it looks like the Pew Research Center report from 2019 was influential in establishing the 1996 end date. What is Pew's generation theory? All I could find was this article that is a black box. Summary: we gather data and analyze it. Compare the many books and articles by S&H published over decades, that are extremely in-depth and justify their positions. S&H theory has an internal consistency that goes back a thousand years or more. Pew barely a few generations.
- I can see why all of this is problematic for Wikipedia. No doubt there are editors who consider it FRINGE science and the best we can do is report what sources report. Picking Pew is a safe bet in that atmosphere. But PEW has a peculiar notion that every generation is 15-18 years long. This timespan is impossible to justify when looking backwards in time. And pre-setting hard numbers for the length of a generation is also not justifiable. Sometimes they are 15 years. Sometimes closer to 30 years. It's like centuries. Real historians don't periodize history by 100 year segments. They use terms like Long 19th century or Short 20th century because each "century" is defined by characteristics that may or may not be 100 years chronologically. -- GreenC 01:19, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
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- Perhaps it is useful to point out that a social generation or a demographic cohort is different from a biological generation? Today, a biological generation is roughly twice as long as a social one, not least because of rapid technological changes, which certainly have an impact on culture and behavior. Jean Twenge explains this in her recent book, Generations. Nerd271 (talk) 12:39, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- I agree with this. Strauss and Howe's dates should at the very least be mentioned since they actually coined the phrase. I believe their date range was 1982 to 2005. Drakus79 (talk) 04:25, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- A few weeks ago I added the Strauss and Howe dates to the date range section but it looks like it was removed. Why is this? Strauss and Howe coined the term "Millennial". I know that the pew research dates are generally more accepted, but their dates should at the very least be mentioned. Drakus79 (talk) 04:29, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Their dates are in the "Date and age range definitions" section. Dan Bloch (talk) 04:37, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- More specifically, the last sentence of the sixth paragraph. Some1 (talk) 04:37, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Their dates are in the "Date and age range definitions" section. Dan Bloch (talk) 04:37, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- A few weeks ago I added the Strauss and Howe dates to the date range section but it looks like it was removed. Why is this? Strauss and Howe coined the term "Millennial". I know that the pew research dates are generally more accepted, but their dates should at the very least be mentioned. Drakus79 (talk) 04:29, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- I agree with this. Strauss and Howe's dates should at the very least be mentioned since they actually coined the phrase. I believe their date range was 1982 to 2005. Drakus79 (talk) 04:25, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Perhaps it is useful to point out that a social generation or a demographic cohort is different from a biological generation? Today, a biological generation is roughly twice as long as a social one, not least because of rapid technological changes, which certainly have an impact on culture and behavior. Jean Twenge explains this in her recent book, Generations. Nerd271 (talk) 12:39, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
In addition to the data from the Pew Research Center, there are also, for example, data from the international American company McKinsey, where millennials Y were born from 1980 to 1994 or McCrindle (1980-1994), So this is all conditional, but in order to avoid disagreements, of all the existing classifications of the theory of generations, it is better to take the earliest date of birth Millennials - 1980 and the earliest end date of births - The year 1994, especially since people born in 1995, they can no longer be called millennials in the classical sense that modern sociologists describe them, but you can already call the very first generation Z, according to many signs, which is confirmed by data from many reputable research centers. So, of all the interpretations that exist today, in my opinion, the birth dates of generation Y from 1980 to 1994 will be the most optimal. Georgii Valentinovich (talk) 18:49, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
- The most optimal would be to take the latest start date (1983) and the earliest end date (1994), because people born between those years are the only ones that are undeniably millenials by all definitions. But Wikipedia does not concern itself with what is optimal, the only applicable policy here is WP:DUE, and I think this article is now balanced well with that policy—at least in terms of the date definitions. I would also recommend reading Danbloch's essay above. Betty Logan (talk) 03:27, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
Authors William Strauss and Neil Howe coined the term. To my understanding, some people have been going into this article and attempting to delete any mention them. This is erasure of history. While Strauss-Howe generational theory is widely criticized, it is part of the generations history whether people like it or not. Bob200505722 (talk) 23:00, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
- I don't see any attempt to "delete any mention" of them. There are multiple mentions of the theory and its authors throughout the article. Betty Logan (talk) 00:36, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
- Yep. This is easy to confirm with the search function of one's web browser. Nerd271 (talk) 02:02, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
I seek the number of babies born in Millennial years. I want to compare it to 76.4 million babies born in the Baby Boom generation. All I see in this article is the generations alive in 2012 or 2019 or other statistics not of interest to me at the moment. Has the number of births been tallied? - - Prairieplant (talk) 03:21, 4 June 2025 (UTC)
- I don't know if this answers your question, but according to https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2020/04/28/millennials-overtake-baby-boomers-as-americas-largest-generation/:
As of July 1, 2019 (the latest date for which population estimates are available), Millennials, whom we define as ages 23 to 38 in 2019, numbered 72.1 million, and Boomers (ages 55 to 73) numbered 71.6 million.
Some1 (talk) 03:35, 4 June 2025 (UTC)
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