Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Category:Atheism and agnosticism: Difference between revisions

• Should not be a combined catagory, very different labels, Delete. Sam [Spade] 04:34, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)

• Keep. Atheism, through different definition (e.g. "weak atheism"), often merges into what is usually called agnosticism, which itself merges into questions of secularism (which is in essense the state declaring itself de facto agnostic on religious issues). It seems a worthwhile category. Aris Katsaris 19:24, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)
• Keep, weakly. I agree that the two are not the same. However, they exist together as a synonymn for "secular" or "non-theist." The usefulness in the cat. is probably for political developments, rather than for anything philosophical. If one were to apply it for philosophy/religion, it would be a bad cat. tag, rather than a bad category, I think. Geogre 00:31, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I'd be cool w renaming it, maybe to Catagory:Secularism, or some such? Sam [Spade] 05:32, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

• Keep. Arevich 13:45, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)
• I feel it makes no sense at all to combine these two. Agnostics discount proof of deity, while atheists assert that there is no deity at all. Completely different. Delete or rename. Jeeves 21:10, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)
  • Actually you are wrong -- Some people define "atheism" as simple lack of belief in a god, and distinguish between "strong atheism" (where you assert there's no deity) and "weak atheism" (where you simply lack belief in one but don't discount the possibility). Aris Katsaris 21:14, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)
    • Also, in practice, fundamentalists don't usually distinguish much between atheism and agnosticism. They are almost always lumped together by the large number of people who go in for such an exegesis.Fire Star 22:01, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)
• May as well ask a fascist for his opinion on communism as as a fundamentalist about his view of agnosticism. The mouth keeps moving but all that comes out is POVPOVPOV. I am an agnostic, but would never claim atheism unless I knew a whole lot more about the universe than I do. To connect the two, except via ignorance, is a gross philosophical error. Denni☯ 05:11, 2004 Jul 25 (UTC)
  • I agree with you completely. Trying to have this as a combined category shows ignorance or at least carelessness on the part of the instigator. The misunderstanding that atheism and agnosticism are the same thing (or very similar things) is widespread, and I would hope that Wikipedia not assist in propagating it. Jeeves 00:05, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)
• Tentative keep. I think it does make sense to link these two, because it is difficult to discuss either as a purely distinct form of nonbelief in gods. Just as long as this doesn't turn into a categorization of people by (non)religion, which I think should be kept purely in list article form. BTW, this should have been listed at Wikipedia:Categories for deletion. Postdlf 21:57, 25 Jul 2004 (UTC)
  • It is only difficult to discuss something if you don't know what you're talking about. This is not meant as an insult or a put down, but the fact is that few people appreciate the profound philosophical distinctions between agnosticism and atheism. There is as much difference between agnosticism and atheism as between agnosticism and theism. Denni☯ 01:38, 2004 Jul 27 (UTC)
    • Only if you choose to see "atheism" as meaning "believing there's no god" instead of "lacking belief in god". Some people see agnosticism as a subcategory of atheism in its broader sense, and given the definition they use for "atheism" they are completely correct. Aris Katsaris 02:18, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC)

      Many agnostics have very strong beliefs in god, they are just not committed to a specific religion. --ssd 05:13, 28 Jul 2004 (UTC)

      • I admit that before now I'd never before seen a definition of agnosticism that could include believing theists who simply don't happen to belong in a particular denomination. Aris Katsaris 05:32, 28 Jul 2004 (UTC)