Talk:Lydia Koidula

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Petri Krohn's weird manipulations

Petri Krohn has twice ([1], [2]) attempted to push the claim of Lydia Koidula having born in Livonia. This claim is true only insomuch as her birthplace was in the administrative Livonian Governorate of Russian Empire. However, the governorate borders were in this context relatively arbitrary, and from Koidula's literature, it's clear she considered her dwelling place to be Estonia, based on ethnic domination of Estonians around her, rather than Livonia, which she would have understood as the place where mostly Livonias lived. I believe assigning undue weight to an arbitrary administrative division in the context of this birth is a bad idea, akin to saying somebody was "born in a wooden house (now torn down)", and consequently, have reverted. Digwuren 19:33, 8 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The administrative division was called the Riga Governorate, not the Livonian Governorate. Livonia ceased to exist after the Polish-Swedish War of the 1620s, so Lydia must have been very, very old if Petri claims she was born in Livonia. I think any further reverts by Petri must be considered plain and simple vandalism. Martintg 21:12, 8 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Riga Governorate (and variants thereof) were the 'official name' for imperial business. However, Livonian Governorate (and variants thereof) were routinely used for local affairs; importantly in this context, for denoting administration of any particular parcel of land. Digwuren 00:21, 9 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The words Estonia and Livonia (or Estland and Livland) were generally used in the 19th century the refer to these lands, instead of the names of the Russian administrative divisions.

Also, it would be untrue to claim, that Vändra was in Estonia in 1843. At that point "Greater Estonia" was still a romantic notion in the minds of nationalist.

As to undue weight:

The article mentions Estonia, and the fact that Koidula was an Estonian writer, a total of 35 times.
Being born in Livonia, outside what was then Estonia, was most likely one of the facts contributing to her nationalism. This fact certainly deserves mention in the article.

-- Petri Krohn 00:01, 9 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

(Refactored inline comments, that interfere with numbered list. -- Petri Krohn 00:53, 9 June 2007 (UTC))[reply]

a) I interrupt this tirade to point out that Petri Krohn is wrong here. Digwuren 00:21, 9 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

b) I interrupt this tirade to point out that Petri Krohn is wrong here, on at least two points, and appears to have found Yet Another peculiar idea, this time of "Greater Estonia". Digwuren 00:21, 9 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

1) I interrupt this tirade to point out that Petri Krohn is using a completely useless metric in vain hope of proving a point. What next, balancing vowel counts? Digwuren 00:21, 9 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

2) I interrupt this tirade to point out that Petri Krohn is pulling nonsense out of Some Dark Place That Shall Be Left Unnamed here. Digwuren 00:21, 9 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Upon thorough checking, repeated rereading and comparing with the sources, I must admit Petri Krohn appears to have made no obvious errors in signing this tirade. I express my amazement. Digwuren 00:21, 9 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]