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February 23

Dates in Spanish

How to write the date in spanish. Can you write today's date(Febuary 22nd) in spanish, in a full form.

Here's a hint. Every page of Wikipedia has links to other languages (unless those pages haven't been added yet). The language links are at the bottom of the left-hand column: click Español for Spanish. So, first find the article February 22 in English, and click the language link. It doesn't write out the number in full, so look at the English article 22 (number) and click the language link there. Now, you've worked out how to do that you can flick between English and Spanish Wikipedia articles to help you learn the language. — Gareth Hughes 01:05, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

A google search for -how to write dates in spanish- gives [1] as its third result. Look towards the bottom of that page, and it explains it. Black Carrot 02:11, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

• Spanish is my native language and I don't agree with the formula "Hoy es martes, el veinticinco de marzo" mentioned in that link. We'd say "Hoy es martes, veinticinco de marzo", without the article. However we would say, "sucedió el veinticinco de marzo de 1989", for example.--RiseRover|^talk 12:36, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

You should just say 22 de febrero. :|, I didn't understand all that went on in this question...--Cosmic girl 22:56, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

So to actually answer the question, it's veintidós de febrero. Proto||type 12:56, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

What is the easiest language to learn besides English?

EMAIL (email deleted) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.193.132.74 (talk)

You know, I tried looking for an article titled hardest language or easiest language, but there are none; perhaps a new article is in order sometime. Anyway, it's rather difficult to gauge the ease and difficulty of a language. Theoretically, linguistis consider all languages of the same difficulty level - they have their share of easy and difficult grammatical features.

But anyway, the easiest language for an English speaker should be something that's closely related to English, like perhaps Scots or Frisian. I've not studied either of these, but I have found other languages like Afrikaans, Norwegian, and Swedish to be easy for me (but I haven't had the committment to learn them seriously). To me, I find Romance languages easy but when I started learning the first one (Spanish), I had a very difficult time grasping the different tenses and moods (especially the subjunctive).

Even then, it depends on what works best for you. If grammar gives you a hard time but absorbing vocabulary is a breeze, then perhaps you may find Mandarin and Indonesian easy. If the vocabulary is an obstacle, but pronunciation and grammar aren't, then maybe French. In my experience, people like Spanish because of it's relatively easy pronunciation - but even then, they don't even pronounce it correctly. --Chris S. 03:04, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

If I'm not mistaken, English is actually one of the hardest, or possibly even the hardest language to learn. bcatt 01:58, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Well, I've heard that Japanese is the hardest major language to learn (but this was from English speakers, so it's hard to be sure), but I've read that there are countless tiny regional languages, like the ones spoken by hicks along the Spanish/French border, that are even harder just because they're such an insane mixing. As far as pronounciation, I think Spanish is the easiest, and French isn't too bad. Black Carrot 02:06, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

When you say "Spanish/French" border you make me want to think of either Basque, Aranese, or Catalan. Basque is decidedly difficult, but it doesn't fit the description of "insane mixing." Catalan has been described as a mix of Spanish and French - I speak Catalan, and that's true on some level because you get casa petita (small house) while it's casa pequeña in Spanish and petite maison in French. But no, I don't see Catalan being any harder than French or Spanish. Aranese is no different either. --Chris S. 03:04, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

That some words in Catalan have evolved the way some Spanish words have and some others have evolved the way some French words have doesn't make Catalan a "mix" of the two languages. It's like saying that Dutch (since it's so popular in the answer to this question) is a mix of German and English. Which is so wrong... --RiseRover|^talk 18:22, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

That may be so, but whenever I see Catalan, it strikes me as a mixture of the two. I can reasonably understand some Catalan due to it's similarity with Spanish, but it still seems like the differences are in the French direction. They don't seem Italian, Portuguese, English, or anything else, they seem French. And for the purposes of a term as innacurate as a 'mixture of two languages', having some words developing in the way of one language and others developing the the way of the other seems about right. - Taxman ^Talk 14:47, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

I definitely agree with you there, but I think what I wrote wasn't that clear. Yes, Catalan evolved into its own rather than being a random creole based on Spanish and French. However, whenever I describe to the average American - who has no idea what Catalan is - what Catalan is, I give them an analogy saying that it's like French and Spanish mixed together. BTW, have you seen Essentialist Explanations? It's rather funny. With regards to Catalan, one person says it's basically "bad Spanish mixed with even worse French" while another says "Catalan, as everyone knows, is essentially Spanish spoken by Poles." :-D Visca el franco-castellà català! --Chris S. 04:48, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

For me (an English speaker), Chinese was very easy to learn as far as in reading, writing, and grammar. For speaking and hearing, it has been extremely difficult. --Kainaw ^(talk) 02:31, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Your question can be interpreted in two ways.

"What is the easiest language to learn." Natural languages are burdened by historical developments that make little sense. So an artificial language like Esperanto should be a lot easier. Both the grammar (often the biggest problem) and the vocabulary are much easier. I have a Dutch-Esperanto-Dutch dictionary. The Dutch-Esperanto part is the same size as any other dictionary in the series (and incomplete at that, as they all are). The Esperanto-Dutch bit is one third that size and complete. Words are formed totally logically. One might call it a scientific language. And that section includes the grammar (just a few pages) - try that with any natural language. Also, rules concerning pronunciation are very liberal; you may pronounce it any way you wish. A natural language that approximates that is Indonesian because that is a 'lingua franca'. It is used as an intermediate language between the Indonesian islands. Actually, it is a foreign language for most islanders. For the same reason Swahili should be easy I suppose. And pidgin English perhaps?

"What is the easiest language to learn for a native English speaker." Which seems to be the question you meant to ask. You already mention Frisian and Afrikaans. My first reaction was 'Dutch', which is very closely related to those two. A native English speaker once told me Dutch is the language closest to English. Then again, actually learning it would require practise. And the best practise is to be had among native Dutch speakers. But if Dutch people find out you're a native English speaker, they'll instantly switch to English. If you argue that you're trying to learn Dutch they will ask you why. If all Dutch speakers speak English better than you can ever hope to learn to speak Dutch then what's the point? DirkvdM 10:04, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Dutch being very closely related to English would explain why Dutch speakers apparently speak English very well. Why wouldn't it work just as well in reverse? and particularly if the English speaker has gone to the Netherlands or acquired Dutch speaking friends specifically to practise the language and learn it? Do the Dutch have an advantage through their long exposure to English through TV, movies etc, that is not matched by the relative lack of exposure to Dutch for English speakers? JackofOz 12:34, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

I imagine that's one of the main factors, some other ones being that English learning materials are generally much easier to obtain and (one must assume) are of greater quality; that there is a much stronger desire to learn English in the non-English speaking world than there is a desire to learn non-English languages in the English speaking world (sadly, unfortunately); and Bill Bryson often mentions the "jaw crunching" constructions of Dutch and German words which seem to bedruggle English speakers whereas Dutch speakers don't often whine about "jaw crunching" English words, though there are more than a few (for example, "strength", which becomes a 6-syllable word when a Japanese person tries to pronounce it).  freshgavinΓΛĿЌ  14:03, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

I always enjoy telling Japanese friends about the Dutch word "angstschreeuw" ("cry of fear"), with eight consecutive consonants. David Sneek 18:12, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Clearly the language of your girlfriend/boyfriend. ;)--RiseRover|^talk 18:18, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

It depends on what language you speak, if you are an english speaker then german should be easy...if you speak spanish, then french and italian are easy...but any language that has the same alphabet as mine seems easy to me...that's why I'd love to learn russian but it scares me :|.--Cosmic girl 22:58, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Myth, myth, myth. English is not "easy." Anyone have a sure-fire way to teach English adverbials to second language speakers? I'd be damn curious cause it's damn hard. You know, an easy way to sum up "recently," "basically," "practically" or even "most of the time" to a new English learner? No, you don't have an easy answer, because there is none. You can learn baby talk in any language. I speak baby-talk Arabic to taxi drivers everyday, and they speak baby-talk English back to me. Neither understands the other language. The idea that "English is easy" is a very very unfortunate idea. Marskell 23:11, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

It's all POV, but since English is the global language, it's so much easier to pick up words and phrases. In actual fact, the huge amount of influences upon it - and the fact that there's over 2000 different syllables - make it hard to perfect, even for a native.
Slumgum 23:22, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

We can accept that access to learning materials/everyday words and phrases/second lang tutors/media etc. is greater for English than other languages without accepting that there is something inherent to English that makes it easier to learn than other languages. There isn't. Indeed, the Latinate vocab probably makes it harder to learn English comprehensively than, say, a cousin like Dutch. I suppose that was my point (put better having thought about it). Marskell 23:40, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

The questioner wasn't specific as to what level or type of learning he/she is talking about. Children aged 5 have all learned their native languages to a certain level. Their vocab might be limited by comparison with that of a university professor, but they can conduct conversations fluently (and often incessantly). They cannot usually read or write yet, but within a year or so that comes, again to a certain level. Does it take a Finnish child longer to reach equivalent stages of language development than it does a Swahili child or a Chinese child or a French child, or do children in similar types of environments tend to "learn" at the same rate? If the answer is yes, that would suggest that, to a child learning their native language, no language is inherently any more difficult than any other. But to adults it may well be quite a different story. Many people I know or know of, who learned English later in life, have said that they became confident in their use of other foreign languages far earlier than with their use of English. Funny spelling is often mentioned as a bit of a stumbling block, but the great number of often confusing and contradictory idiomatic expressions that English employs, and all their local variants, is far more difficult to master. Not that English is the only language to be idiomatic, but it probably outdoes most others, particularly with the colloquial spoken language, because it has borrowed from so many other languages. JackofOz 08:03, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

We're #1! We're #1! Black Carrot 13:05, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Nishapur

What's the etymology of the name of the Iranian town Nishapur. It's a Sanskrit word that means "City of Night". Is that the source for that name too? How come a Sanskrit name still survives in Iran, when so many of them, like Prayag have been changed in India? deeptrivia (talk) 03:28, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Oh, okay I read more about the name. It's a very deceiving name, since it's hard to believe the town is not in India! deeptrivia (talk) 03:32, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

I don't know. But Singapore is a name of Sanskrit origin and it's not in India. Sanskrit has had some influence in South and Southeast Asia - even in many Philippine languages one will find Sanskrit words. --Chris S. 05:05, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

In southeast asia, yes, but in the southwest, beyond Baluchistan, I wasn't sure. In any case, it turns out to be derived from the name of a king called Shapur. Thanks for your comment, though. deeptrivia (talk) 12:23, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Marngrook or Marn Grook

What is the correct spelling of this word/phrase?, considering that there a far more polysyllabic S.E.Australian aboriginal words than monosyllabic. Please see discusion page for Marn Grook. Lentisco 03:43, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

New Question: word "analysis" origin

hi,

do the word "analysis" has greek,latin or other roots?

thanks for your help!!

LG

Greensboro, NC, USA

"Medieval Latin, from Greek analusis, a dissolving, from analein, to undo  : ana-, throughout; see ana- + lein, to loosen; see leu- in Indo-European Roots." dictionary.com. So, basically Greek. --Halcatalyst 05:03, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

And here I thought it was a shortened combined form of "anal electrolysis". StuRat 04:04, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Captains Courageous fishing terms: strawberry bottom

The story "Captains Courageous" uses a lot of nautical and fishing slang that I can't find any definitions for. One of the characters, Dan, talks about "strawberry-bottoms", and when another character, Harvey, touches the strawberries, the effect is "as though he had grasped many nettles". Can someone tell me what a strawberry-bottom is and what those ocean strawberries are? Thanks...

from Captains Courageous by Rudyard Kipling: "The hook had fouled among a bunch of strawberries, red on one side and white on the other - perfect reproductions of the land fruit, except that there were no leaves, and the stem was all pipy and slimy.

"Don't tech 'em! Slat 'em off. Don't -"

The warning came too late. Harvey had picked them from the hook, and was admiring them.

"Ouch!" he cried, for his fingers throbbed as though he had grasped many nettles.

"Naow ye know what strawberry-bottom means. Nothin' 'cep' fish should be teched with the naked fingers, dad says. Slat 'em off ag'in' the gunnel, an' bait up, Harve. Lookin' won't help any. It's all in the wages."

from the context I would guess that they are soft corals in the genus Gersemia. these grow in deep cold waters, like those of the Grand Banks, and are a habitat for cod and other food fish. —Charles P._(Mirv) 19:28, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Strawberry Shortcake's butt ? StuRat 03:45, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Gersemia sounds right, looks right (http://www.seaotter.com/marine/research/gersemia/rubiformis/html/3rubiformis.jpg.html), but Strawberry Shortcake's butt sounds better. Did you get that from WrongAnswers.com? Thanks to ya both!

You're

On talk:James Blunt, someone was shocked that Blunt pronounced "you're" as "yaw". This is how I've always said it, but according to the replies, this is just a British thing. So, how do Americans pronounce it (and no IPA, please). smurrayinchester^{(User), (Talk)} 18:50, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

I've always heard it pronounced as yoor or yur. Black Carrot 19:58, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Most American accents, Boston and older New York being notable exceptions, are rhotic, meaning the letter "r" is pronounced in nearly all positions. See Rhotic and non-rhotic accents. --Nelson Ricardo 00:06, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

This isn't an answer to the question, but some Brits (Scots?) pronounce it to rhyme with "sewer". —Blotwell 07:35, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

You need IPA or something like it to answer this question properly. Your asking for no IPA is a bit like asking why cafe isn't pronounced kayf, but requesting no one talk about French! You need a fixed base to talk about pronunciation, and linguists usually use the International Phonetic Alphabet to do so. This eliminates the 'rhymes with...' and 'like yaw' statements, which are essentially misleading (the sounds represented are pronounced differently by different speakers). Here is the linguistic answer, and I'll provide all the links so that the IPA can be fully interpreted. In General American, you're is pronounced /jɔɹ/ (click on each letter for its article). This is how someone from the US who is considered to have a fairly 'neutral' accent would say the word. In Received Pronunciation (you can consider it General English English if you like), the letter r is not pronounced in some words, especially after a vowel. In RP, you're is pronounced /jɔː/ (this shows that the r is not sounded, but lengthens the vowel instead). It is this sound that an American might interpret as yaw. In fact in RP, the words you're, your, yore and yaw are all pronounced alike. Now, as we're talking about James Blunt, it might be good to say something about his accent. He comes from Wiltshire (where I live too), where traditional West Country dialects are used, and the pronunciation would be quite similar to GenAm here. However, as with most middle-class people from the region, his accent has little regional quality, and RP or close-RP is the more frequent pronunciation. — Gareth Hughes 15:18, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! It's just that I can't read IPA, but that was actually very clear. Thanks! smurrayinchester^{(User), (Talk)} 09:52, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

A WIKIPEDIA glossary?

Is there a kind of glossary with all terms of wikipedia listed? as for exemple "clean up", "wikify", etc?

Wikipedia:Glossary. --cesarb 20:52, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

-cles in Greek names

What does the -cles ending of Greek names (i.e. Pericles, Damocles, Sophocles, etc.) mean? KeeganB

Not to mention Testicles. JackofOz 21:47, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Indeed, the manliest hero of them all. GeeJo _{(t) (c)} • 22:11, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Don't forget Johncles
Slumgum 22:14, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

And of course the Chronic - WHAT? -cles of Narnia! --LarryMac 05:29, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

And those two really cool guys Popsicles and Icicles. JackofOz 07:23, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

κλεος, kleos, glory. --RiseRover|^talk 22:46, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. KeeganB

February 24

Dutch language

Hi, I've started studying German today on the Internet, and I took a quick look on some of the other language guides available on the site (unilang.org), I took a glance on the Dutch language guide over there, and there's one thing that makes me wonder. How is Dutch so much different to German? It's basicly only Low-German vs. High-German, right? When someone speaks Dutch, I sometime may mistake it for English (for some sentences, like "the weather is good"). Also, it doesn't have the complicated and so many combinations of adjectives/nouns/definites/genders inflecting each other which the Dutch language is far from being. In Dutch, if I remember, there are only two genders, there's only 2 articles (each for both gender, and don't forget the definite/indefinite, which makes it 4), adjectives are simple except for one small rule for some exceptions. The pronouns also sound much more similar to English than German does. In fact, if you'd ask me, I could argue that Dutch is the most similar Germanic language with English. My question is: how did the languages evolve like this? How come two clsoely related languages (Dutch and German) are so different? How did a relatively geographically isolated language like the English language end up so similar to Dutch (at least to my ear)?--nlitement ^[talk] 22:43, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

I've always thought that Dutch = (English + German)/2 .Anglo-Frisian languages and English language might show you that their roots are the same.
Slumgum 23:03, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Ah, yes! It is the sprachbund, right? Thank you very much! Been wondering for a while now :) --nlitement ^[talk] 23:06, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

No, its the fact that they are all part of the same family which is important, as Slumgum said. In this case they are all part of the West Germanic branch of the Germanic languages family. So that makes them pretty closely related. Originally people in England spoke Celtic languages (completely different) but when the Frisians, Angles, Saxons, etc arrived in England from across the North Sea they brought their own Germanic languages with them.

• The Sprachbund thing is something different. Thats when languages from different (unrelated) families have some unexpected similarities because of geographical proximity. Jameswilson 00:11, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

It might be interesting to note that some Low German dialects are essentially unintelligible to German speakers who are not from Northern Germany and have not been exposed to these dialects. That is, even languages that are usually considered dialects of German have no mutual intelligibility with standard German. My explanation would be that the dialect continuum has been politically divided into two standard languages. The Low German dialects did not, however, factor into the developing Standard German language. Maybe something similar happened during the formation of the modern Dutch language, but I'm not quite sure on that. Anyway, this might lead to two pretty closely related languages developing in very different directions. --Rueckk 02:04, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Many of the similarities you might find between Dutch and English are not the result of a simultaneous development, by the way. For example, in the early twentieth century the masculine and feminine nouns in Dutch did not yet fall together in the common gender they form now (leaving aside a few exceptions). At the time, articles were inflected in a way that made the language look a lot more like German ("des", "den" and "der"), but now this has almost completely disappeared. David Sneek 16:41, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

The thinking voice

When someone who has the misfortune to have a speech inpediment is thinking. Do they think with the impedement or with what would have been their 'normal' voice?

I don't have a speech impediment, but when I hear my voice recorded, it sounds nothing like my thinking voice, which is less nasal. Weird. :-D --Chris S. 23:32, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

I don't even know, but if I'd guess, I'd say no. I think it would be another disorder then. Speech disorders sound more like physciological to me than psychological. --nlitement ^[talk] 23:37, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Nope. I don't know about people whose speech problems are based on mental problems, but I have just about every impediment there is (slurring, lisping, weak r's, etc) that isn't based on deformity or damage, and my mental voice is just fine. At least, I think it's fine. As a matter of fact, you could be right. I'd never paid attention to it, but in fact some of those show up weakly. I don't think it has to be that way, though. I can imagine talking like Michael Jackson, and no problems show up at all. I'd say what little does, in my own internal voice, comes from the habit of hearing my voice (just as the high-pitchedness in my imagining of Michael Jackson exists because he really does sound like a girl) and from the tendency I have (and most people are, from what I've heard and read, the same way) to ever so slightly shape my mouth and throat into the words I'm thinking. Restrictions on what I can shape can effect what I imagine, which is why my internal voice doesn't ever have slurring (which is saliva's fault, the bastard!) but can have a weak r. It don't have to, though, and plenty often doesn't. However, the internal voice is a fairly amorphous thing in anyone. Detection, or detection of the lack of, something as small as, say, a weak r is tentative at best.

This is actually an interesting experience, since I'm used to thinking about things like this from the outside (does a deaf person dream in sign language?), and it's easy to forget the person I'm thinking about is just a normal person, and basically the same as me. Black Carrot 00:03, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

When you get to a certain stage in learning a foreign language you start having dreams in that language, so maybe deaf people do do that. I'd be surprised if it applied to speech problems though. Jameswilson 00:15, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

All I know is that I used to stutter, and I never did that while thinking. Excessive thinking on what I was going to say led to stuttering, though. Make of that what you will. --Rueckk 01:39, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Combination

What Author Can be a Combination of Jorge Luis Borges and Edgar Allan Poe?

It doesn't matter how many times you ask it. —Keenan Pepper 00:25, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

I can. --Cosmic girl 17:33, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

That's decidable (or falsifiable). --DLL 23:34, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps Robert Louis Stevenson, and if you want to get really low, Goethe, Shakespeare, or Khayyam The Ronin 00:52, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

I'd still put my money on Cosmic girl though, seen as how she's still alive.  freshgavinΓΛĿЌ  10:30, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Help requested for various languages

There is a need for editors that can speak a number of languages to help finish off the last of the articles we are missing that were included in the 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica. We can hopefully finish them off before hitting 1 million articles in en.wiki. A number of the last few articles are towns or other terms from various countries that could be made quick work of if people knew the language, could check for the article in that language's Wikipedia and follow those external links or maybe just have resources of their own. The language skills that could be helpful are Spanish, German, Italian, Portuguese, and even Indonesian, Arabic, Persian and maybe a couple others. Try to find a few additional sources to verify the material and go as far past a stub as possible. Thanks all. - Taxman ^Talk 15:07, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

You can find the list of missing articles here.David Sneek 18:33, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Oh, yes, well, the link to it--who needs that? :) Thanks. The other thing I should note is the project guidelines are that so much has changed since 1911 that it's not usually a good idea to copy much from the 1911 version depending on what additional sources agree with. - Taxman ^Talk 19:37, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

I can help, what do I do?...I saw the link but I don't understand what has to be done.--Cosmic girl 16:58, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

It's more or less finished... David Sneek 19:53, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Please take time to read Wikipedia:WikiProject_Missing_encyclopedic_articles#Guidelines. Then search, from the above link, a 1911 article and the WP one. If the latter exists, read, correct or complete it ; if not, begin hard work. Good luck, take care. --DLL 21:32, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks all, the initial list is done, and now we're going through making sure the created article's are up to date. That can still use a lot of people with other language skills. - Taxman ^Talk 16:21, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

School period

What is a school period called in Dutch and American English? deeptrivia (talk) 16:30, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

In Dutch it would be "trimester" or "semester", depending on the kind of education. David Sneek 16:51, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

I mean a "school period" within a schoolday. Something like number of 30-40 minute durations the day timetable is divided into, so that one subject is taught during the same period every week. (Something like "the fifth period every Monday, Wednesday and Friday is Maths.") In India a schoolday normally has 8 periods of 40 minutes each. Is there any such concept at all in these countries? There must be. deeptrivia (talk) 17:18, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Aye, we have periods in the UK — 5 to the day when I was there. I'm pretty sure it remains period in American English as well (an example). GeeJo _{(t) (c)} • 17:20, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! Waiting for a Dutch translation :) deeptrivia (talk) 17:23, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

As a point of interest, I had hour-long periods rather than the forty-minute ones you had, or the 49-minute ones shown in the link. So it seems I had 20 minutes less education per day than you, and 43 minutes less than in the U.S. :) GeeJo _{(t) (c)} • 17:28, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Add to it the fact that in most schools in India, either only second saturdays, or second and fourth saturdays are off. deeptrivia (talk) 17:42, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

In Dutch it is called a "lesuur" or simply "uur", though it does not usually take an hour. David Sneek 18:02, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

In the U.S. it is also less than an hour but sometimes called that; period is common too. Rmhermen 18:07, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

For what it's worth, in my high school (in Canada) we used "period". It was easier to describe a class as being in "3rd period" or "period 3" than to say it started at 10:24 a.m. (I don't remember the actual period times offhand, but they were not in multiples of 5 minutes). In my early schooling, when all subjects were taught in one classroom, schedules were not announced to us at all, so the concept didn't arise. When I went to university, we didn't use "period" but just described everything by the time of day. --Anonymous, 22:28 UTC [15th period, or so :-)], February 24, 2006.

In Ohio many schools have moved to block scheduling, leading many students to refer to a period as a block. -LambaJan 03:44, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Pronunciation of BIll Kazmaier's last name

How do you pronounce Kazmaier.... is it Kaz-meyer or Kaz-mere?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Kazmaier

Thanks, 168.189.64.96 19:25, 24 February 2006 (UTC)Brian

It's a German name, so it'd be more like "Kats-myer" with a long 'a' as in "bar". --BluePlatypus 19:46, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Courtesan

What is the origin and etymology of the word Courtesan, does it relate to a courtier, and thus a court or palace etc. Or to form artisan. Apparenty it has origin in the word cohort from latin how could this be if this means a miliary Roman unit? 86.129.82.87 19:59, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?sourceid=Mozilla-search&va=courtesan Mark^{your words} 20:10, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

help wanted

Your help is needed at the humanities reference desk here on the origin of the name "Belgium." --Halcatalyst 22:46, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

February 25

Hisself vs. himself

I found myself debating with myself as to why it is considered correct English to say "himself" rather than "hisself". I considered that fact that, when adding the prefix to a "-self" word, we use a possessive form: myself, not meself; yourself, not youself; yet there is inconsistency with "himself" (as well as themselves, of course). So why is this inconsistency present? Who made the rationalization of using "himself" instead of "hisself"? It doesn't make much sense to me. Daltonls 06:21, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

For 1st and second person pronouns you use the possessive (myself, ourselves, yourselves), while for third-person pronouns you use the object form (himself, herself, itself, themselves). I don't know if there's any "logical" reason for this difference, but it's consistent. AnonMoos 11:18, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

The OED explains all. Self was originally an adjective, and the pronoun before it - him, etc. - was originally a dative. The original pronouns before self were me, you, him, etc. Me got modified to my and you to your for reasons of euphony. This process happened over about a thousand years - some of the OED's citations are from the 10th century - so it's a matter of usage rather than logic. Him didn't get modified because it sounded right as it was. Hisself is an archaic dialect form based on the incorrect assumption that self is a noun. --Heron 12:14, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

If you want a real pronominal conundrum, then ask yourself what the counterpart of "mine, yours, ours, hers, theirs" is for the third person neuter singular pronoun "it"... AnonMoos 12:51, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

It's "its", isn't it? "This footprint is hers; this next one is yours; but that pawprint is its". It sounds odd not because it's ungrammatical (it's not) but because it's highly unidiomatic to use "its" as a predicate. JackofOz 11:28, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Well, if it's clear what the predicate possessive form of "it" theoretically should be, but on the other hand it's almost impossible to construct any sentence containing this form which would actually be naturally uttered by a native speaker, then it's rather difficult to say that it's part of the language. But if it's not part of the language, then it leaves a gap in the paradigm. That's why it's a conundrum... ;-) AnonMoos 18:14, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps it's because the correct answer to that question was his right into Early Modern English. The usage of its grew to cover most of the meanings, but not really this one. Perhaps this why native English speakers prefer to rearrange a sentence to avoid using its in this way, it just feels wrong. — Gareth Hughes 19:27, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Discriptive

What is the vernacular for people who identify the origin and/or value of historical objects?

Appraisers? AnonMoos 11:14, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Archaeologists? Slumgum 19:50, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Antiquarians? JackofOz 19:53, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

"Starling's song"/"Conlang telephone"

I've found various references to this but can't find a page on it here. Can someone help? --{{subst:user|4836.03}} 07:44, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

• I don't know what Starling's song is, but I've played a few rounds of Conlang Telephone in Lojban. You take an text and pass it through a chain of translators, with each translating the text they receive from one language to another (usually alternating a natlang and a conlang, like English and Lojban), and you observe what happens to it. Here's an example of a round. rspeer / ɹəədsɹ 08:19, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

A starling is a songbird. --BluePlatypus 18:10, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

I don't think it "usually" alternates between a natlang and a conlang. There's been about a dozen conlang relays on the conlang list that go from one conlang to another.--Prosfilaes 07:11, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Starling's song was a text used in one. See [2]. Rmhermen 22:06, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

February 26

Grandparents in German

I'm learning simple German, and I'm currently learning about families. In German, my granddad would be mein Opa and my grandma would be mein Oma; however what would you say if you had two granddads and two grandmas? Computerjoe 12:35, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

According to dict.cc forums I could say: Meine zwei Opas (or Grossväter), zwei Omas (or Grossmütter) [3]. Computerjoe 12:52, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

'My grandads' and 'my grandmas' sound odd to me in any language, since those aren't the pairs they usually come in. In English I would use 'both': 'both my grandads are still alive'. In German I think that would be 'meine beide Opas'. Mark^{your words} 13:14, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Thank you Mark. I haven't used my grandads in any context apart from my grandads are called..., I have generally said something along the lines as I have two grandads. Computerjoe 13:47, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

It's meine Oma and meine beiden Opas. Apart from that, you guys are right. --Rueckk 17:34, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

macbeth

In the first two acts, macbeth seems to be a man wrestling not only with his conscience, but also with some force of evil outside himself. Even by the end of act II, it is impossible to decide whether he is a weak man or one who has genuinely surrendered himself to evil.

Discuss, do you agree or disagree with the fact that he is a weak man or a man who has surrended himself to evil?

To order people to discuss something when you have no actual power over them is slighly tacky. Also, this smells like a homework problem; can't you just buy the Cliff Notes?--Prosfilaes 19:43, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

I think SparkNotes may help your problem. It's free. The Ronin 00:49, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Latin Translation

Can anyone translate "Pie Iesu domine, dona eis requiem" for me? Black Carrot 21:51, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

"Merciful/Good lord Jesus, give them rest". --BluePlatypus 21:56, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

*bonk*

Hahahahaaaha. I get it. Bonk. Proto||type 16:18, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Oh, and also see Dies Irae. Proto||type 16:24, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Requiem is also appropriate. JackofOz 19:37, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

While we're at it, it's worth pointing out that nearly every word there has an English cognate. "pie" is the origin of "pious", "dona" of "donate" and "domine" of "dominate". See folks? Latin isn't so bad. Except the grammar. :) --BluePlatypus 07:40, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Not to mention requiem and quiet. Maid Marion 16:09, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Stats for langages spoken by Britons?

I'm looking for some statistics giving details for how many people in the United Kingdom speak various languages. The official Census does not collect this data, except for Welsh and Scots Gaelic, and while the Languages in the United Kingdom article lists a number of languages spoken in London, and while I've found London figures on the website of CILT, what I can't find anywhere are similar details for other areas or - especially - for the country as a whole.

What I'm looking for is how many people speak French, Polish, Punjabi etc in Britain - just a list of languages and a figure given for each would be fine. Ideally what I'd like would be something akin to the statistics collected by the Canadian census, but I would settle for some sort of reasonable estimates of, say, the top 20 languages spoken in the country, so long as there were some actual numbers there, and not just an ordered list of language names. Do such figures exist, and if so where? Loganberry (Talk) 23:31, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately there just isnt any official list - as you say the census doesnt collect those figures for non-indigenous languages. www.birmingham.gov.uk for example gives loads of figures for ethnic group, country of birth, religion but nothing whatsoever on language. They offer cancer advice in

• Arabic
• Bengali
• Cantonese
• French
• Greek
• Gujarati
• Hindi
• Polish
• Punjabi
• Turkish
• Urdu
• Vietnamese

(alphabetical list) so they must be the top 12 in that city, but no figures. Jameswilson 00:22, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

I think chances are slim, given that it seems to be impossible to find data even about the number of people living in Germany broken down by nationality, which would seem much easier to verify than what languages a population speaks.—Wikipeditor 00:36, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

That seems like a separate issue. The US census has information on the languages spoken by respondants. I can't remember which article linked to it, but it was a pretty detailed breakdown of first and second language including analysis of households that had no English speakers over the age of 13. But if the British census doesn't include that information, you'd have to look for estimates by other sources if there are any. - Taxman ^Talk 16:39, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your replies. "Estimates by other sources" would be fine, except that I can't find any! I find it very hard to believe that nobody has ever made such estimates, but they don't seem to be easily available. It would be nice if the 2011 Census included this question, but I suspect the governmental response to such a request would be "It would cost too much".... I did somewhere see that a nationwide (at least in England) survey of the languages schoolchildren spoke - presumably an extension of the London one that is available - would be started next year, but obviously that's not a lot of use to me now! Anyway, thanks again and maybe I'll just move to North America instead... Loganberry (Talk) 21:30, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

February 27

Words with same spelling

I have lived abroad for many years and my Enlish language is a bit rusty. Is there a specific name for words spelt the same but with totally diffent meanings? Thanks for any help given Lynne.

Homonym. —Wayward ^Talk 12:21, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

As the article also says, "homograph" is the more specific (but less common) term, since "homonym" also applies to words with different spelling but the same pronunciation. E.g. witch/which. --BluePlatypus 08:27, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

The phrase 'dribs and drabs'

Dear Wikipedia, Please could you tell me where the phrase 'dribs and drabs' originates. What is a 'drib' and what is a 'drab'? I think it has a textile connotation but please clarify if you can thanks anne clarke

See here. --BluePlatypus 19:13, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

It also has the meaning of certain kinds of events happening intermittently, e.g. The party started at 8pm but people were still turning up in dribs and drabs until 10. In own personal folk etymology I always assumed "drib" was short for "dribble", and "drab" was a play on words. JackofOz 19:33, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Capitilzation

Is Halakha, meaning Jewish Law, a proper noun, should it be capitilized? The Jewish Encyclopedia seems to take the view that when it refers to Halakha as a whole (even if preceded by "the"; ie "the Law"), it is capitalised, whereas one may refer to "a halakha" (not sure about "the halakha on eating milk with meat"). They use "halakic" with a lowercase h. What do we do with other legal canons: do we refer to "US Law" or "US law" (I assume the latter); similarly "the Law"; the article on Islamic Sharia seems quite inconsistent here. Jon513 15:44, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

I would usually use the capital Halakha when referring to the body of Jewish law, in the same way that one would refer to Torah or Tanakh. It is a proper noun in the sense that there is only one of it (apart from squabbles over definitions, theoretically there should be one Halakha). However, for a specific instance of Halakha, I would write halakha as I would write mitzvah. I would follow exactly the same reasoning for Sharia. Of course, neither Hebrew nor Arabic has capital letters, so this is not an issue in the native orthography. That is probably the reason why we see these words capitalised inconsistently, which leads to this question being asked and the inconsistencies we see in the Sharia article. — Gareth Hughes 15:58, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Specifically, it should be capitalized. When generally speaking, however, I believe it is normal. The Ronin 00:48, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Ronin, just to be clear, are you said the oppisite of what Garzo said? Jon513 15:29, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Synonoums and other slang terms of the word 'lesbian'?

Does anyone else know a compilation of slang or general synonoums of the word lesbian, or a specific kind of lesbian? 86.129.82.87 16:26, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Wiktionary has a short list. GeeJo _{(t) (c)} • 20:08, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Yes, so many that the dykes are overflowing. StuRat 11:05, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

February 28

MMORP termilogy

I would like to know where do the words buff, nerf, sap,and reroll come from. It is for a study of the creation of the vocabulary so if somebody could give me their etymology, it would help me a lot.

thank you Aurélie

If you go to our Etymology article, you will find not only general information but links to many other related topics and references, such as Lists of etymologies. You can probably find a slang dictionary that will help you with your specific terms. --Halcatalyst 23:27, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Putting slang dictionary into a search engine, Urban Dictionary, for example, will get you a slough of hits. --Halcatalyst 14:38, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

See Buff (MMORPG terminology) (and Debuff (MMORPG terminology)), and Nerf (computer gaming). Category:Computer and video game gameplay has a lot of these. There's no article on reroll, but it just means 're-rolling', as in rolling the dice again, if the first result was not satisfactory. It now means repeating any random generation of a set of numbers (say, if you character in an MMORPG's random stats were not good enough - an example of this is in Storyteller System. Sap comes from one of the actual meanings of the word 'sap' (see [4]) - the word can mean to unsettle or weaken (ie, sapping a player's magical shield) . Proto||type 15:10, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Urban dictionary is trash. You're not going to get much etymology info there, just nerds writing the exact same one line definition over and over again, with more !!!1!11!!one!s at the end.  freshgavinΓΛĿЌ  10:15, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

American slang

Hi, there are two phrases in american slang where I have always been wondering about the meaning. The one is "It's the other white meat" - What is? And what is the actual white meat? The article wasn't really helpful.
The other is "getting to second (third, whatever) base"? Which base is which? And for the record: I'm not talking about baseball-rules. Wink wink. ;) Thanks, Lennert B 20:41, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

See Baseball euphemism for part b of yor q. As for part a, it's in a Bloodhound Gang song, so I'd like to know too.
Slumgum 21:18, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

"The other white meat" was originally a marketing slogan used for pork, by the National Pork Board. Chicken (or perhaps poultry in general) is the actual white meat. "The other white meat" has, of course, been co-opted by many others.

There was a recent question on the baseball terminology on one of the ref desks, but ultimately I think the questioner was sent to the euphemism article --LarryMac 21:55, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

See Baseball euphemism. —Wayward ^Talk 23:26, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

The implication, by the way, is that it is "as good as white meat".  freshgavinΓΛĿЌ  10:31, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

I always thought the phrase 'the other white meat' referred to human flesh; this is the context the Bloodhound Gang used it in. Proto||type 13:59, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

They may have, but it's definitely derived from the original pork advertising reference. White meat has less fat and is considered healthier. Pork producers reallized they were losing sales due to people wanting a healthier alternative and the perception of pork being bacon, etc and being fatty and unhealthy. Various breading and other techniques were used to produce leaner pork (nearly as lean as white meat turkey, chicken, etc, I think), and that led to the marketing campaign. From what I've read it was very successful. But it's also kind of funny, so people have adapted the phrase to various uses, including a play on the words themselves. You see it come up in lots of contexts. - Taxman ^Talk 16:16, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

In the movie Austin Powers: The Spy Who Shagged Me, the character of Fat Bastard (who supposedly eats babies), refers to babies as "the other other white meat". --Canley 04:53, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, wooo!  freshgavinΓΛĿЌ  10:12, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

How do you say Happy Birthday in Marshallese?

Ijaje, which means 'I don't know'. It wasn't on the only online resource (here) I could find. Try asking on the Marshallese wikipedia ([http://mh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page http://mh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page); there's only five articles on it, but someone there may be willing to help. Sorry. Proto||type 13:59, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

March 1

Coupled cluster theory

I wonder...Is there an international dictionary of technical terms in existence? I would like to translate coupled cluster theory into as many languages as possible... --HappyCamper 15:49, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Mostly I've heard "coupled cluster" or "coupled cluster theory" in English, regardless of the language being spoken. (German, Dutch, Scandinavian languages). I think it gets translated in French (they like to translate everything). In Russian they tend to use the Russian word for "coupled" and English for "cluster". --BluePlatypus 16:42, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Two Sets Of Adjacent Brackets

I have a sentence "...affinity of the polydactyl ZFP can be adversely affected by a short linker by forcing the helical periodicity of the zinc fingers out of register with the helical periodicity of the DNA subsites (the exact periodicity of which is sequence-dependent) ([bt]; [bu])."

The ([bt]; [bu]) represent my references. Is it correct to merge to the two sets of brackets? --Username132 20:46, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

The question is ambiguous. The word "brackets" is used by some (especially in North America) to mean specifically the square brackets "[...]", but it's also used (especially in Britain) to include any of the pairs "(...)", "[...]", "{...}", "<...>", etc., otherwise respectively called parentheses or round brackets, brackets or square brackets, braces or curly brackets, and angle brackets.

If you're talking about the ") (" sequence after the words "sequence-dependent", then the answer is no; the two sets of parentheses are serving different purposes. If you're talking about any of the marks within the "([bt]; [bu])" construction, then you should be guided by the house style of whatever publication or institution you're writing this for. Or if this is for a course or something and there is no applicable house style, just copy some style that you find in the references you've consulted.

--Anonymous, 21:35 UTC, March 1, 2006.

Sorry, I wasn't very careful there. It was the ) ( issue I wanted help with. Thanks. :) --Username132 23:28, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

It's a bit of a style question. My feeling is that you should only merge the brackets if the two references are saying the same thing. If you're referring to two seperate facts from two sources, then you should put them individually. --BluePlatypus 03:46, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

You say ([bt]; [bu]) are references; could you use a superscript number instead? For example, ". . . DNA subsites (the exact periodicity of which is sequence-dependent)."¹ —Wayward ^Talk 04:31, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Please reread the original poster's clarification. They were talking about the two sets of parentheses, not the two references. --Anonymous, 07:00 UTC, March 2.

I realize that. While not directly answering the question, my suggestion alleviates the multiple-bracket problem. —Wayward ^Talk 11:23, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

March 2

Meaning of a Phrase

What does the following phrase mean "i did love the man this side idolatry as any", specifically what does "this side idolatry" mean?

This quotation was from Ben Jonson to Shakespeare in praise.

It means "this side of idolatry", meaning he didn't love him as much as someone who would worship him, but close to it. User:Zoe|^(talk) 02:51, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

hebrew word meaining

what the literal translation of word "sharon"

The biblical place name is שרון Šārôn. It comes from the root ישר yāšar, meaning 'straight, even, right'. It probably refers to the flatland plain called Šārôn between Jaffa and Caesarea Palaestina. However, it could also be interpreted as referring to uprightness/righteousness. It is spoken of in Isaiah, chapter 35, as majestically fertile. In chapter 33, destruction is exemplified by Sharon becoming 'as a desert'. The Bible also speaks of the flower חבצלת ḥăḇaṣṣeleṯ, probably a crocus, which is often called the Rose of Sharon. — Gareth Hughes 16:14, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Name for Words that Have Vowels In Alphabetical Order

Is there a name for words that have all the vowels in alphabetical order; an example includes "facetiously" where a, e, i, o, u (and y) appear in alphabetical order. What is the name of the word that describes this type of word?

The only other word I know of (in English) that has this characteristic is "abstemiously;" I don't know if there's a word to describe these two words. I'm sure somebody will be along shortly to prove my wrong --LarryMac 19:05, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

There's no word for such a word, that I've ever heard of. Maybe it's time we made one up. JackofOz 20:01, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Alpha-Epsillic. -LambaJan 20:19, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Finding derivations

Is there any resounce I can use to find all words that are derived from a word? For instance, I want to be able to type in or look up "Flower", and get back "Flowering," "Floral," etc. I have university access to online sites such as oed.com, but I can't find anything with this function.

Thanks in advance! — Asbestos | Talk (RFC) 18:25, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

• This won't get you exactly what you want, but it matches your general idea: WordNet is a large database of connections between words. If you search for "flower" in WordNet, then click "S:" to get possible relations and choose "Derivationally related forms", you'll find connections to other words. The noun "flower" will get you to the adjective "flowery" and the verb "flower", which gets you to "flowering" and "blooming", etc. Oddly, it doesn't seem possible to get from "flower" to "floral", but the other way around works. rspeer / ɹəədsɹ 18:50, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

That seems pretty interesting. I'll give it a go, thanks! — Asbestos | Talk (RFC) 19:00, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Jordanhill railway station in IPA

How is "Jordanhill railway station" annotated in IPA? --HappyCamper 18:30, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Believing it to be /ˈʤɔɹ.dənˌhɪɫ ˈreɪɫ.wɛː ˈsteʃ.ən/, I've added that to the article. — Gareth Hughes 18:51, 2 March 2006 (UTC)