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March 13

theology and mythology

if we take as a given that the bible is a reliable source of information to begin with. i want to ask about the theological reliability of the book "the conflict of adam and eve with satan" how deep is this book founded in scripture (if at all)? alot of the bible is written by people who claim to have been given visions from god that they were to write down and pass on. can anyone help me out?

refrences to sources of information would be useful, as well as other books alike to "the conflict..."

thanks, sam hawthorn

86.140.216.202 00:04, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

I can't find a book with that exact title on amazon.com or bn.com (online bookstores), so can't help you out. These sources carry all books in print and many out of print. --Halcatalyst 03:36, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

You won't find it there :) It's one of the "lost texts" - see our article Conflict of Adam and Eve with Satan. I wouldn't really know how to answer this question, though, because it seems to me very much of the form "given that all sheep are purple, how can we get green wool?", the Bible being such a clearly unreliable sources of information, particularly as regards Genesis and Revelation, the only two relevant parts of the book as regards Adam, Eve, and Satan. Grutness...wha? 05:51, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

The Bible is as much a source of historical information as most books of its type and provenance, which is to say quite a bit, but it's not an AP report or a anythng like a history book today. Personally, I don't believe that Genesis was written to be history, and the book of Revelation is frankly that, a "prophetic message" (Rev. 1:3). Take it literally at your own risk. With a few exceptions, biblical prophets were not predicting the future but delivering messages for their own generations. Later readers could well take heed, as they should of any wisdom from the past. --Halcatalyst 21:19, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Reliability is in our world, not in those events. First we have Adam with Lilith. Then poof goes Lilith and there is Eve. They beget only sons and one of them is killed, and so on.

Milleniums after, jew priests and fathers of the churches deliberately ignore some events. Those events, related or forgotten, are rather seen as myths today : very interesting as they tell much about us when we try to find something in them. --DLL 23:11, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Is this topic going to turn into a harangue? --Halcatalyst 05:08, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Normans

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normans

In that article it says Normans were Norse and Gallo-Roman.

My questions are:

1. Gallo-Roman... does that mean the Celtic tribes of Gaul were, like Britain, just under Roman governmental rule (just soldiers there, really), and that the Gauls/Franks were still a seperate people from the Roman people? I believe the answer is yes, i'm just making sure.

2. Were the Normans, "blood" wise, that invaded England mostly Norse?

I'm interested in knowing this because the Normans, along with the Anglo-Saxons and Danes, make up the English race, since they all three mixed with each other so thoroughly.

London 03:43, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

The Romans conquered Gaul, administered it, imposed their language, and mixed with the people to the extent that several centuries later, they were "one people, language, and culture", but genetically primarily derived from previous Gallic ancestry. The Normans conquered England, administered it, imposed their language and laws, and mixed with the people to the extent that several centuries later, they were "one people, culture, and language", but genetically primarily derived from previous English ancestry. The Normans, like the Romans, were of mixed ancestry, including Norse and old British Celtic (which is why the region is called Brittany). alteripse 06:19, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

The second question is "yes." William of Nor-mandy was William of Norse Man Land. I.e. the Nor-men were "Vikings" who had conquered a region of present-day France. His troops were similarly norsemen. These norse were not actually vikings, in the literal sense, because they were part of an invasion trend rather than raids. At any rate, some of the Norman troops were Gallo-Roman, but the nobles William brought with him were one generation away from Norway. Geogre 11:49, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

The Normans ("North Men") got a lot farther than England and Normandy, all the way down to the Mediterranean. They repulsed the Saracens from Sicily and Malta. A very interesting and largely unknown story. --Halcatalyst 21:02, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Northmen did not conquer Normandy. There was a sort of bargain between the French and Viking kings : "Do not row up to Paris for pillage, I give you the march of Normandy and you will guard us against Angles, Saxons and Danes (from Britain) pillage." The then duke of Normandy referred (feudalistically spoken) to the French whatshisname king. --DLL 23:02, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

"At any rate, some of the Norman troops were Gallo-Roman, but the nobles William brought with him were one generation away from Norway." - So in other words, those who migrated/conquered England from Normandy ("of Norman origin") were of almost pure Norse blood?

Also; Alteripse- Are you saying Gauls were a mix of Celtic and (what people now would call) Italian? I'm sorry if I seem rude, but i've never heard such a thing(s) in my life- i've heard the Roman soldiers occupied and "protected" their land in Britain, but not that they mixed to that extent, if at all (same goes to the Gauls).

Read again. Romanized Gauls after 400 years were still mainly genetically celtic, but with an admixture of Roman (italian) genes. They also considered themselves romans and used roman language, law and administrative structures until the empire collapsed. There is nothing controversial about what I am saying. My point was that the Norman relationship to England and the Roman relationship to Gaul were quite similar but your initial questions suggested to me that you hadn't seen that yet. alteripse 01:28, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Again, the main reason i'm interested in this is, the people who moved from Normandy mixed so thoroughly with the English people, and are now (and even relatively shortly after they conquered/inhabited Britain)woven just as tightly into the English bloodline as the Anglo-Saxons and Danes. -London 23:42, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

That would seem to be a solid statement. For a while the French (Norman) Court kept itself above the Anglo-Saxon mob. They didn't speak their language and couldn't be bothered to learn. They were the conquerors, after all. One result was that Anglo-Saxon literature, which had been highly developed, pretty much ended; and when English rose again as a literary language it was quite different. Among other things, it had a distinct French infusion. I think the literary developments parallel those of human breeding. Members of the Court married among themselves (and maybe some with nobility from overseas). Of course, they produced a few bastards with Anglo-Saxon maids. Eventually some lines of Normans merged with the locals; eventually, it was all of them. Without any evidence I would guess the mingling was pretty much complete by 1400, about the time of Chaucer's Canterbury Tales. That's the way things go everywhere. --Halcatalyst 00:29, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

""Yes, its easy to telescope time when you are talking about the distant past. The transition from two separate groups of conqueror and conquered to "complete mingling" LOL took over three hundred years - ie, like from 1700 to now. It wasnt quick. Jameswilson 02:58, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Indeed, it wasn't until Chaucer's time (late 1300s) that English was used to produce laws. As he said of one of the characters in the Canterbury Tales, "she spake the Frenssh of Stratford-atte-Bow", implying that Parisians would laugh at it. -- Arwel (talk) 16:05, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

When you say after 400 years of Roman occupation the Gauls had an "admixture" of Roman genes, do you mean actual Gallo-Roman-Normans with Roman blood and ancestry would be considered (parallel with our modern terminology) "minorities?" Thast, in other words, even those with SOME Roman genes were still mostly Norman/Celtic? I may've found something to answer myself: on the "Normandy" page, it says this- "The Normans were a mixture of the INDIGENOUS Gauls and of the Viking invaders ... "

P.S. Thank you all for correcting my assumption that the Normans and Anglo-Saxons mixed earlier than they most probably did.

And yet one mroe question- Where Normandy now is, were the Breton tribes the Celtic tribe that "made up" the Gauls? I'd read something about it, but i'm not sure if I believe the Gauls and Bretons were seperate, though of the same "blood," or race.-London 23:25, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

The Roman occupation of Gaul didnt change the genetic stock that much because, although it lasted a long time, there was never a mass migration of people from Italy. Also the soldiers and administrators who were stationed there could be from anywhere in the Roman Empire, from Portugal to Syria and beyond, so the "new blood" was by no means all (or even mostly) Italian. Jameswilson 23:55, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

London- that "The Normans were a mixture of the indigenous Gauls and of the Viking invaders ... " sounds right to me- I don't believe the Normans that invaded England were at all part Roman, or any Norman for that matter. The reason I think that is because the Normans invaded France all the way to Paris, so the King of France, not the ruler of the Roman Empire at the time, granted them the land called Normandy- I believe the governing people there were Norman/Gaulish "soldiers" or the equivalent of "policemen," =P. "The Normans were of mixed ancestry, including Norse and old British Celtic (which is why the region is called Brittany)" - In other words, I agree with that statement- the Normans were a Norse-Celtic race. - Leif

There is little reason to say that Normans were Norse and Celtic because of Brittany. They were Norse and French. Brittany was the province west of Normandy and had even been at war with the Normans in the 930s. Whether the French contributions was of Gaulish (Celtic) or of Frankish (Germannic) stock may be hard to tell. Rmhermen 18:22, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Ah! If only there was solid proof of what they were (other than mostly being Norse). So it's more probable that they were Frankish (Germannic) mixed with Norse? -London 01:59, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

fratricide (fragging) in Vietnam

How many officers were fragged during the Vietnam war?--Sydneyndon 06:12, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

What an odd question. Are you referring to family members finding themselves on opposite sides? And then why only officers? DirkvdM 08:50, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Apparently it's a new euphemism for killing your allies aka friendly fire though I'd never heard of it before. A particular subset of this is the intentional murder of officers. The thing about killing your own officers with a fragmentation grenade ("fragging") is that presumably the method was chosen (rather than a convenient bullet) because it it indistinguishable from enemy action. Given that, and that for some reason nobody owns up, the question is impossible to answer. Notinasnaid 09:01, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

A google search on fragging turns up http://home.mweb.co.za/re/redcap/vietcrim.htm which includes a table with estimated fragging deaths per year (totalling 1013) and quotes historian Terry Anderson of Texas A & M University:

"During the years of 1969 down to 1973, we have the rise of fragging - that is, shooting or hand-grenading your NCO or your officer who orders you out into the field," says historian Terry Anderson of Texas A & M University. "The US Army itself does not know exactly how many...officers were murdered. But they know at least 600 were murdered, and then they have another 1400 that died mysteriously. Consequently by early 1970, the army [was] at war not with the enemy but with itself."

Secondly, this word isn't a new term and it does not refer to friendly fire in general, but to specific attempts by enlisted men to kill their officers. http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=fragment cites a usuage in 1972:

"Fragging is a macabre ritual of Vietnam in which American enlisted men attempt to murder their superiors. The word comes from the nickname for hand grenades, a weapon popular with enlisted men because the evidence is destroyed with the consummation of the crime." ["Saturday Review," Jan. 8, 1972]

mennonot 09:50, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. "Fragging" meant "fragmenting" and derived from fragmentation grenades and landmines. Someone who was "fragged" was someone who got hit by a handgrenade or landmine, and "fragging" as an active verb was murdering a disliked person. However, how many officers were fragged? No one can possibly know, as the reports would never have been clear, and the men would be unlikely to admit that they had murdered their officer. It's a popular Hollywood myth, though. Geogre 11:52, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Not that it really matters, but the new euphemism to which I was referring was "fratricide". Fragging was pretty well covered by the media, and is reasonably well known. Notinasnaid 12:03, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Fratricide means the murder of one's brother, which doesn't sound very euphemistic to me. JackofOz 22:29, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Surely it's a euphemism if it isn't actually your brother. I know the literal meaning, which is why I found the reference so confusing in this context. Maybe it's just me. Notinasnaid 07:34, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

A euphemism is a way of avoiding mentioning something undesirable. "Fratricide" is a slightly formal word for murder, specifically of a brother. It's the antithesis of avoiding mention of murder. Transferring the object of the murder from a brother-in-arms to a real brother is not euphemism, but a form of projection. Or it could be a simple case of personification, as in "Band of Brothers". JackofOz 12:41, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

I wonder how much of this happened during the first World War. It certainly happened the other way around because a lot of soldiers were shot for desertion. And when they had to go 'over the top' their officers had they pistols drawn, pointing at them. And I once saw in a film how this was done in the Soviet army during WWII too (then again, that was a film and a western one at that). It would make sense if the soldiers would then have also said "Fuck it, I'll kill you before you kill me." But then, in those days (especially during the first war) the levels of authority were still firmly in place and the thought probably never entered the soldiers' minds. I suppose it took the liberating sixties to make people actually take that step. DirkvdM 06:03, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

The Soviets likely would have not only killed the soldiers responsible, but their entire families, too, so this was not much of an option for them. However, during WW1 the soldiers did mutiny and kill their officers, leading the the Russian Revolution, at least according to Dr Zhivago. StuRat 01:27, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

The classic WWI film on killing your own soldiers is Paths of Glory. --Halcatalyst 05:11, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

I should say, the classic film set in WWI. --Halcatalyst 05:33, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

I think you were OK first time, Halc. "Saving Private Ryan" could be called "a WWII film". JackofOz 13:46, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

And for a WW1 book on this topic, how about Ernest Hemmingway's A Farewell to Arms" ? StuRat 01:27, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

ancient egypt

can you please tell me how ancient egypt's religion affected their economy and what sites would be good to look at. i have tryed some sites and none of them answer my question. thankyou kindly

You can check out Egyptian mythology and see if there's anything that you're looking for. If not, you can always ask again here. Igor the Lion^(Roar!) 13:24, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Unknown Research Institute

Does anyone know of a fledgling "Blakeley Research Institute" based in Geneva? I and some of my colleagues have been receiving encrypted mails from someone there for some time already. The cipher was Vigenère, and decryption revealed a threat of some sort to a colleague. I've checked with the police, and they say they're doing everything they can, but meanwhile, we're still getting these letters! Google didn't turn up anything, so it could be a hoax, but just checking to see if there really is no such place. After all, Google has been known to make mistakes. Thanks. Igor the Lion^(Roar!) 13:30, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Google doesn't make mistakes, but it may leave things out, because not every web site is accessible to web crawlers and bots -- only about 2/3 of them, in fact. OK, maybe Google makes mistakes, but not that kind. They just find what's available, index it, and respond to search requests.

That said, it's hard to say whether you're receiving a real threat or not, though the persistence suggests something serious. I'd say, keep complaining to the police. Since it's international (I assume you're not in Switzerland), approaching higher authorities (e.g., the FBI if you're in the US) might be a good idea. --Halcatalyst 16:37, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Sectioanlism

• did constitution makers have to make comprimises because of sectionalism? how did sectionalism affect the new nation and decisions?

        MysteriousStranger 14:31, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

We have a short article on Sectionalism. Have a look at it and follow up on the links, and you'll have a better handle on the questions you're pursuing. --Halcatalyst 16:29, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Which constitution makers? AllanHainey 11:50, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Literary criticism of author Julio Cortazar's short story "The Night Face Up."

March 13, 2006 11:36

I have looked everywhere, except where it obviously is and cannot find it. What I am looking for is the short story "The Night Face Up" and any literary criticism that pertained to the story. I have an essay to hand in Monday of next week, so any help would be most appreciated.

Many thanks,

JR

I hope you know about our article on him. It's fairly brief, but it has a number of external references (in Spanish). When I Googled "Julio Cortazar" stories I got a huge number of hits -- over 200,000. Refining that to "Julio Cortazar" "The Night Face Up", the number was reduced to about 14,000. Looks like you have a gold mine there. --Halcatalyst 20:51, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

TV series duration

Is there any web site that lists the number of seasons and episodes for various U.S. television series?

Try http://www.tv.com/. It not only covers current shows, but past shows, as well. User:Zoe|^(talk) 17:22, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

The IMDB also has this sort of information, with better coverage of recent or popular shows than others. It started as a list of guest appearances only, so if there were episodes with no guest stars they'd be less likely to be listed. --Anonymous, 18:32 UTC, March 13, 2006.

March 14

Oldest historical document of a human being

What is the oldest known record of a human being and in what media was it made in? (By this I do not mean any records of human existence, but a sort of documentation where individuals or humans were first mentioned in). I appreciate any direct answears. --Funper 01:04, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Define "document." Is a cave painting, made by a prehistoric man, documenting the hunting afternoon of the tribe considered a "document"? ☢ Ҡi∊ff⌇↯ 01:20, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

I am guessing they mean the earliest written language document. Would that be Sumerian cuneiform script ? Or perhaps Egyptian heiroglyphics or Chinese characters ? StuRat 04:46, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

At what point does it become language? You put your suggestions in a nice order of development from pictures to characters. It's probably when the pictures became more abstract that one starts to call them 'langauge'. But that's rather arbitrary. Language is anything that conveys a message and the cave paintings probably did that. Although it may not have been meant for others but as a re-enactment or even preparation (getting ito the spirit of the hunt). Maybe you can only speak of language when it is meant to comvey a message to others who know nothing of what happened (and who can actually get a good idea of that through the message). So the cave paintings were language (we sort of get the point when we see them) but maybe not intended as such. DirkvdM 06:12, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't think cave paintings qualify as language any more than modern paintings do. The problem is, they mean whatever you want them to mean, not anything specific. A hunting scene could be a record of a specific hunt, a mythical hunt, a desire for a future hunt, etc. StuRat 23:14, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

What about a novel then? It may have happened, it may be wishful thinking or it may actually happen. But it's language. DirkvdM 08:41, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

I think possibly the first instance where a person is named would be in the Epic of Gilgamesh. Whether the person named was actually human or divine, however.... -- Arwel (talk) 16:12, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

I suspect some rather boring records, like receipts for animals or grain paid in taxes, would be older. StuRat 23:21, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

The cuneiform script you mentioned started off as an accounting language, I believe (the article doesn't seem to mention that, though). DirkvdM 08:41, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

I believe you are correct. They also used unique marked clay cylinders they wore around their necks to make a "signature impression", which carried legal weight. That's smarter than our current credit cards, which don't always require a signature, allowing for massive fraud. StuRat 18:32, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Sepultures ; and painted hands on grotto walls ; they tell us "I was here". True record of a person, still we do not have the names. --DLL 19:49, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Do you mean sepulchres, the burial vaults? (Sepulture is the act of burying a person). JackofOz 22:17, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

sepulture is also a synonym of sepulchre, though I think the former has a slightly "antique" feel when used that way. - Nunh-huh 00:12, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

OK. Thanks. JackofOz 13:42, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

For the antique touch : excuse my french (touch). --DLL 20:15, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

What happens when a college guy tells a prospective girlfriend he's on SSI?

How would she react? Would she decide to move on to another guy right then and there, or will she continue with him?

Of course the first thing on your mind may be: "It Depends On Her Personality". Perhaps if you were a college girl looking for a boyfriend, also in college, and he told you this, what would you say & do?

And for the guy that doesn't want to tell her about the way he keeps a roof over his head (in other words, about his SSI), what are some good ways to evade her question without lying? --Shultz III 02:31, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Evading the question is strikingly similar to lying. If you're on SSI then there's probably a reason for it. Are you hiding that also? If she's aware of whatever condition you have and is ok with it, then she'll most likely be ok with your monetary situation also.

Think about the implicit message you're sending. If you evade these things it sends a message of low self esteem to her. On one or another level she starts wondering how far it goes, the feeling like you have things to hide as well as the actually being able to hide things. If you're just straight up and mention it like it's no big deal when it comes up it sends the message that you know that these things don't make you any less than anyone else. You don't even have to lie about being uncomfortable about it, she'll appreciate and understand it. Just say something like 'my rent? oh I use my SSI checks to pay for it.', 'Yeah, it's kinda nice and it kinda sucks, that's how things go. So what's up with...'

If she's cool about it then cool, if not it's best to get it out of the way as soon as possible. -LambaJan 03:43, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

How would the guy get it out of the way as soon as possible effectively? Can you provide specifics, please?

by telling the girl it of course. and you already touched the important part yourself, it depends on the girl. you simply can't say they all will do this or that. Boneyard 12:29, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

By the way, the reason for SSI would be Asperger's Syndrome. With that disorder, it's a whole lot harder to land a job (at least with a living wage) than it is already for normal people. That is one reason SSI is needed. --Shultz III 10:13, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

That's nothing to be ashamed of. Just let her know straight up. If you don't you're heading straight for giving her a double shock (a small one for your condition and a HUGE one for all the undercover stuff). -LambaJan 02:45, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Maybe this hypothetical woman would have more trouble finding out that you've been asking around for a surrogate mother for your children on Talk:Asperger syndrome. Anyway, where you get your money is really your own business, but any woman you may have a relationship would probably want to know that people with Asperger syndrome can't read facial expressions well and have certain social problems. If you find a woman willing to overlook the obvious signs of your disability, she probably won't be shocked to hear about the diagnosis. Don't lie to a woman if there's a chance you could get caught. They hate that. There's no reason, however, to volunteer every piece of information about yourself without being asked, unless there's a chance she's assuming something that's not true. For example, it wouldn't be good if she thinks you're squeaky clean, and you've actually done prison time, or if she thinks you're inexperienced, and you've had plenty of action. In my experience, college women aren't as focused on money, status, and job stability as older women with jobs, and you can get by on looks and charm alone. Brian G. Crawford 04:35, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Legislatures and Judiciary of India.

I want to know the defination of an ordinary bill in an indian parliment session

A Bill is a proposal before a Legislative body for the members to contemplate, ratify and pass (to become law) or reject. Please also see our Section on Indian Parliament. --Tachs 13:41, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Looking for type of banking account

(This question may or may not be suited for this part of the reference desk - feel free to move to Misc if appropriate, just let me know).

This is a multi-part question that involves banking and tax laws. I live in the United States.

So, in high school, my economics teacher mentioned a type of banking account that one sets up for one's child's future college education. What I remember:

• That money was taken out of one's paycheck before taxes, either a percentage or a set ammount per week. (I may be mistaken about both parts of this.)

• That this account gained interest, but you do not pay tax on this interest. I do not know if this included state tax - I lived in New Hampshire at the time, and we aren't too fond of state taxes. I now live in New York, where not only do I pay state taxes, but city taxes (....goddamnit).

• That the account must be used on the assigned child's college (etc) eductaion expenses. That if the money is withdrawn for any other reason, then a huge penalty is payed.

First, does this type of account exist? What's it called? Links?

If it does exist, can I set one up and begin contributing to said account for my very young nephew and niece back in NH? Are there cross state issues? Can the kids' parents also contribute to the same account, or, can they set up an account to which I am able to contribute with the same benefits (pre-tax withdrawal from pay, etc.).

Much thanks for all assistance provided. A piece of cake to whomever digs through the mess above and provides an answer or twelve. Thanks! --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 06:26, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Google reveals that they're called 529 plans, in that faintly ugly hyper-numerical way you guys have of naming your financial instruments. savingforcollege.com seems to have a wealth of information. From a brief inspection of their FAQs it seems that you don't have to invest in any particular state but can choose the one with the best available plans, and still use them to pay tuition anywhere in the US, and you can in fact invest in many different states and the IRS won't count them against each other! --Bth 09:15, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

The numerology comes from the fact that such government-sponsored programs are commonly known by the subsection of the law which authorized them. Thus there is also 401(k), a tax-deferred investment program offered through employers. --Halcatalyst 02:18, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

See also Education Savings Accounts. Neither come out pre tax, but yes you can contribute to the same account their parents do in both cases. Payroll contributions are handled by your payroll department, so you may not have every option, but you may be able to work one out. Publication 970, listed as the external link is your best bet to get the authoritative information on the tax treatment. - Taxman ^Talk 20:59, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Big and Small Government

Could somebody please explain to me the meaning of both "small government" and of "big government" and provide me with some examples of each so I can understand what they refer to. The entry on Wikipedia is rather vague and I haven't been able to find any simple explanations on the Internet. Thankyou.

"Small government" refers to the idea that government should do the minimum necessary to ensure the security and safety of its citizens (see minarchism and libertarianism for the extreme version). In this view, power always corrupts, individual liberty is best guaranteed by people left to get on with their own lives, and government is a necessary evil that should be minimised. In contrast, "big government" refers to the idea that the government can and should do more for its citizens (a prime example being the provision of a social safety net). Here, some of government's powers are viewed as the best way of providing certain things that those on the small government side would want done by the private sector, individual liberty is best guaranteed by ensuring everyone has a minimum standard of living, and government is viewed as having the capacity to do go−od (though obviously it isn't always in practice). Note that the widespread use of the terms in general political discourse (esp. in the US) is an example of highly successful framing by those in favour of the small government side -- the idea is that pretty much everything from the New Deal on constitutes unacceptably big government. --Bth 09:09, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, that was exactly what I needed.

What is unacceptable is rather POV. A good example of a big government would be State Socialism, aka Communist States. An interresting mix was Nazi Germany, where there was a strong but rather decentralised government, so it didn't all come from the top. DirkvdM 08:52, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it's the POV that the people doing the framing are trying to push -- that was my point. --Bth 10:02, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Citing images used in presentations

If I use an image in a PowerPoint presentation for my statistics class, do I need to cite where it came from? (e.g. clipart that came with MS Office, clipart from a collection I purchased, images from Wikimedia Commons, and pictures from my school's website) Hermione1980 16:08, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

General rule is that you do not cite public domain artwork (such as Microsoft's free clipart). If you do want to cite it, you do not do it in the presentation. You do it with an accompanying list of citations. If the image is not in the public domain, you should cite the image. Usually this is done in very small text along the bottom of side of the image. --Kainaw ^(talk) 16:20, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Microsoft's clipart is not technically public domain -- the copyright is often ambiguous -- but in general clipart is not cited. Images are, in my experience, not usually cited in presentations unless 1. they are presentations of data that you did not create (i.e. a chart or graph from someone else's data or paper -- good to give credit where it is due), or 2. the author is well-known or well-known-enough that it would be interesting/useful to know who made it. Think of Powerpoint as an elaborate slideshow -- citations are usually not required for presentations, though dropping names is useful for controversial claims or unique claims that you yourself did not come up with. Of course in a written paper this is very different. --Fastfission 16:30, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

I beg to differ. Whether something is public domain or not is irrelevant to the question of whether you must cite it. Plagiarism is a particularly sensitive issue in academia, and for your own sake, you should provide a citation for every source you have used, in a form dictated by your institution's guidelines. If you need guidance on how to do this, you should ask your statistics teacher: if nothing else, you will have covered your ass by doing so. - Nunh-huh 19:48, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Nunh-huh. Look: you'll very rarely get accused of anything if you cite too much, but failing to cite is a gross offense. When in doubt, cite. If it's not yours, cite. Geogre 21:14, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

The only reason I'm asking instead of just doing is because I've already turned in the presentation. I'm just wondering if I should send a panic email to my teacher saying "sorry, did this at 1:00 in the morning and forgot to cite the images", or if I can, well, just leave it be. Hermione1980 21:40, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Since you feel guilty, yes, let your teacher know. Confession is good for the soul. The real guilt in plagiarism is intent or carelessness. Correct citation and not-too-close paraphrases are skills students need to be taught; they don't come naturally. A lot of teachers punish students who are merely ignorant. OTOH, there are plenty of cheaters, and plagiarism violates the prime directive of education: to get educated. --Halcatalyst 00:57, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Citing clip art in a presentation is silly, but sure, check with your teacher. Clip art is meant to be used without citation (see our article on clip art). And I don't think that not citing slides in a presentation is necessarily plaigiarism at all -- again, citation in a presentation is usually used in specific circumstances, when something is clearly attributable to someone else and should be. I write this as someone who has witnessed umpteen million academic powerpoint presentations and have never seen clipart cited. The idea defies the entire point of clip art. --Fastfission 01:15, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

I've told you a million times to quit exagerrating. --Halcatalyst 02:13, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, exaggeration will cause the destruction of the universe. StuRat 18:39, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Have you noticed that the word exaggeration sounds like eggification = edification? The universe will end in the smell of rotten eggs. --Halcatalyst 23:14, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

You must cite Wikimedia Commons clearly with at least 48-point font. :D --69.234.54.17 10:37, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Found this interesting

In village news : "Your participation in the "Micro Wikipedia Survey" at User:Shuo Xiang is much appreciated!"

The survey asks three basic questions and you may want to visit the page and give an advice. This leads me to another quick survey : what is your preferred source of information (WP, Googl, other) and when ? --DLL 19:41, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

I think this is a wonderful student project and urge everyone to participate, as I have. I believe there is a current discussion of "stable articles" on WP somewhere. Anybody know where, and what the status is? --Halcatalyst 00:47, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't recall - I know its out there -- but User:Nikodemos's user page has very interesting related material. Herostratus 05:26, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Halcatalyst, do you mean Wikipedia:Stable versions? (which seems to have done a couple of test cases but is still mainly a discussion of criteria and techniques) Or are you thinking of the more ambitious Wikipedia 1.0 project? --Bth 08:22, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Depends. Whenever I think I might find something in my library, I use that (dictionaries, reference books, travel guides). When it is something 'established' and not prone to pov I use Wikipedia (mostly for scientific and technical stuff). When those fail, I usually Google it, but am very wary of what sites I read something in (knowing how to read between the lines is an essential ability for information gathering). For pov-prone topics I try to use as many sources as humanly possible (and as varied as possible). In this respect it is handy that there are Wikipedias in various languages and that I can read several of them. I wouldn't trust the English article on Cuba, for example, because it'll be too influenced by US editors and assorted maniacs. For this sort of thing I prefer my travel guides (Rough Guides have good background sections). By the way, I also use Google as a spell checker. DirkvdM 09:08, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, we need this perusing of other sources. The French WP is quite poor but may help to translate some notions or fill in some red links. I tried Polish, Finnish, Spanish, any WP site with latin charset, you do not have to understand everything to gather something valuable. Googl tools use should be learned soon - preferably before learning to walk, still I expect some free (ad free, public domain) research tools.

When there is a question here in WP:RD, it is more interesting to try and search something than to complain about misuses of our own etiquette. Also, any pov is very rich as it gives plenty of uncensored information, then you have to take it with your own grain of salt.--DLL 20:11, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

• I've been to "Le Bistro" on the French WP several times and one or two times got toasted for asking my question. That's one reason why I'm on the side of the questioners here who sometimes get arch responses from us. Over there, too, some people realize it's better just to do your best to help, and that sometimes it's necessary to call the dogs off your guests. No offense intended. --Halcatalyst 22:38, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Info on "Shrift"

When someone went to Shrift, as Juliet does in "Romeo and Juliet", what did that consist of? Was it the same as modern day confession, or was it different in some ways?

well, shrift = confession, though when Juliet went to shrift she wound up poisoned and unrequited. As to whether it was the same as modern day confession, almost certainly not, in particulars, but probably pretty much so in generalities. Since she's a fictional character, though, when she went to shrift, was she going in her fictional time period and locale, or in the time period and locale in which Shakespeare wrote the play (much in Shakespeare is anachronistic in this way)? Eiher way, confession of sins, the imposition and satisfaction of a penance, and absolution would have been involved. - Nunh-huh 00:10, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

If you know you're going to die, you really need to get to confession. Also, the monk (Brother Lawrence) was the one who had the potion to feign death. If you're about to fake death, there is a chance you'll die, so you need to confess your sins before that happens. Juliet died in a state of grace. This means a lot to a Tudor audience (cf. Hamlet having a chance at Claudius while the latter is at his prayers but refrains, because he doesn't want him to go to heaven), and suicide was not settled as a mortal sin (see, for example, John Donne's Thoughts on Emergent Occasions, written only a few years after Romeo and Juliet, which is in praise of suicide from a clerical point of view). Geogre 10:50, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

The Beatles White Album

Could you please tell me where I could find the current value of an Unopened Beatles White Album? This album includes all inserts. I would also like to find out how to identify if it is mono or not. Thank you.

The album was recently reissued on vinyl, so you really should find out whether you have an original or a reissue. If I recall correctly, it's one of the more commonly available Beatles albums that are not compilations. Try a used record store or ebay. Wait until there's buzz about the Beatles again, and the demand and price should go up somewhat. Brian G. Crawford 03:53, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Assuming you are talking about an lp, my "Rock & Pop Preis Katalog" (German) lists the following, with prices in DeutschMarks (divide by two for an indication of price in Euro):

Parlophone PPCS 7067 (1LP - black/yellow label)	283 DM
Apple EMI SMO 2051/52 (2LP)	26 DM
Apple EMI 8119 (2LP)	43 DM
Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab MFSL 2-072 (2LP, half speed)	73 DM
Apple BTX 1006 (2LP, mono)	27 DM

So there's quite some variation, but it would have to be a special edition to really be worth a lot it seems. I wonder what selection the 1LP and half speed versions have - they can't contain all songs. While you're looking at Beatles albums, keep an eye out for 'Impression', printed by 'Deutsche Buchgemeinschaft Parlophone 6279', which was given a 1735 DM pricetag. There will probably be just a few of those around. Somewhat more realistic would be 'Please please me (export release), Odeon ZTOX 5550' at 475 DM. And then there's a whole bunch more with prices in the hundreds, but tracking them down would require so much effort and experience it's probably not worth the trouble. DirkvdM 09:26, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Can't be a very recent catalog if the prices are in DM? Anyway, I found a guide here here, seems the PPCS 7067 is the first pressing, and most valuable. (The low price above is probably because it's missing two sides?) Anyway, it seems the price range is quite extreme depending on the serial number. --BluePlatypus 14:37, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

The "half speed" designation for the MFSL release refers to the mastering process, not playback, so it would indeed contain all songs. (In fact, if an LP were to be played back at half speed, it could conceivably contain twice the content.) Unfortunately, our Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab article doesn't contain a lot of detail on the mastering process, and what information is there is marked as questionable. --LarryMac 17:48, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

March 15

Tommy Douglas

Article about T. C. Douglas includes no mention of his wife, Irma. I would like to know if she is still living, and some details of her life.

Wayne Sheldon

I got 49 hits on Google when I searched for "T. C. Douglas" irma. Try it and see. --Halcatalyst 05:05, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Richard Nixon on Idi Amin

Does anyone remember that Richard Nixon quote that went something like, "Idi Amin? He's nothing but a goddamn cannibal asshole. He'd eat his own mother. Christ! He'd eat his own grandmother!" I can't seem to find the exact words. Maybe I'm thinking of something Hunter Thompson wrote, so who knows how reliable it is. Brian G. Crawford 00:32, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Can't answer the question, but it sounds like Nixon in private: brilliant and nasty. --Halcatalyst 00:49, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Primitive attempt at reverse engineering

A co-worker related a story that might be an urban legend, but I wanted to know if it's true. It relates to a crashed or scrap commercial airliner that was copied by a technologically backward society, perhaps the inhabitants of an isolated island, with the belief that it would work as long as its shape was correct. Does this sound familiar to anyone? Any ideas on where to look for more information?--Joel 00:35, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

See cargo cult. alteripse 00:45, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks!--Joel 22:57, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Shane

For those who read the novel, in Ch. 9 was there a person screaming (I don't notice any)?. If so, what did he do (where did he go)? And after they pinned Shane down, why couldn't he punch him twice? And why did Marian want Joe to stop fighting and let Shane do it all himself? Confusing book. --hello, i'm a member | talk to me! 00:43, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

The Tecora

Hi. I'm looking for any info about a Portuguese slave ship called the Tecora. Could anyone please help me out here? It was a very infamous one, from what I hear in the 1997 movie Amistad & was functioning around 1840. --User:EricSpokane

• Well, a Google search provides a number of useful-looking sites, including the Amistad Research Center, which might provide some helpful info. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 03:57, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Jews in 20th Century America

How did Jews find jobs in the 1900s? How did their observance of sabbath refrain from interupting work hours?

It depends very much on the particular Jew. :) I for example, do not keep Shabbat at all. Others, such as Hasids, work only for fellow Jews which allows them to observe shared customs. Many others worked in businesses that did not require Saturday work, such as some office jobs. Still more simply made up any missed work on Sundays, which was the day of rest for everyone else. I hope this helps, but there is not one simple answer. Superm401 - Talk 03:47, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

They found work the same way as any other minority facing discrimination, by taking jobs no one else wanted, by running their own businesses, by getting jobs from others in their group, and by entering established professions that guarantee work, like medicine, dentistry, and law. Brian G. Crawford 04:45, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

When you talk about observing sabbath, you're talking about Judaism as a religion, not about being a Jew by descent. A distinction often overlooked. DirkvdM 09:42, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

That's also talking about a particular subset of the religion. Durova 20:34, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

aborigines

Please help we require information about the following:

Kinship and Family structure within the aboriginal culture.

Also Aboriginal bush food and preparation.

That sounds like homework. Geogre 10:53, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

See Aborigine. -LambaJan 20:56, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Death Penalty

Which crimes impose the Death Penalty? thankyou!

In which country or countries? AnonMoos 08:23, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Thankfully none here in the Netherlands. Not even desertion, I believe. DirkvdM 09:43, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Amnesty have a list of what the situation is in different countries, but for those that have it they don't list which crimes it's applied to. --Bth 09:54, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Contrary to popular belief, the United Kingdom has not entirely outlawed capital punishment. It can still technically be applied for treason and 2 other crimes whose names escape me. So the UK definitely imposes the death penalty. But were you asking about countries that actually apply the death penalty, that is, actually carry out executions? Things can change, as they did when the USA reintroduced capital punishment in the mid 1970s. But for the foreseeable future, the UK is not going to execute anybody, for any reason, in my opinion. JackofOz 13:39, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

That was the case until relatively recently (arson in the royal dockyard was the famously obscure offence, but may have been a bit of an urban legend) but is now in the category of common misconception itself. The Human Rights Act of 1998 was amended to completely revoke the death penalty for all offences. See Amnesty again, here. --Bth 13:56, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Ah, excellent. Thanks. JackofOz 14:05, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

ISTR that Lese majeste (sp?) was the other supposed capital offence. Grutness...wha? 06:16, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Murder and treason (at least) in the U.S. (not all states have capital punishment, but the federal govt. does) --Nelson Ricardo 01:44, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Please see Use of death penalty worldwide --69.234.54.17 10:32, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Marijuana

I have several questions I could not find the answers to.

1. How much does the War on Drugs cost New York State annually?
2. Has there ever been any evidence that terrorists use marijuana money to fund terrorism?

Yes, but they are only able to make money off drugs because they are illegal. So, politicians who keep drugs illegal are at least partially responsible for providing terrorists with a way to make money. If drugs were legal, then pharmaceutical companies would get rich off them, not terrorists. StuRat 17:59, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

3. Is it possible to convert marijuana into a pill, and if so, how expensive is it?

A good herbalist can turn any botanical into a pill. Pills predate Western medicine by centuries, and probably existed before writing, although the old-fashioned ones don't look as pretty and aren't measured very carefully. I've heard that originally hashish was made by keeping marijuana in one's shoe until the resin clumped together as a pellet. Without accounting for the raw material, this sounds inexpensive in the extreme. --Joel 23:34, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

4. How much money would New York State make by legalizing marijuana and producing it?
5. What would be some major benefits of legalization of marijuana?
6. Has the Federal Government ever denied funding to a state because of a violation of a federal law?

Thanks.

1. Millions of dollars.
2. Poppies and Coca are the main illegal crop used to fund terrorism, not marijuana.
3. The active ingredient, THC, can be synthesize and put into a pill, but marijuana itself cannot exactly be put into a pill. The drawbacks of THC in pill form are that: a. THC is one of many active compounds in marijuana that provide relief to a variety of conditions. b. It is easy to regulate your dose when smoking.
4. Millions of dollars
5. Decriminalizing marijuana is smart for many reasons.
6. Yes.

--Shadarian 14:48, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
(I made your list easier to read. — QuantumEleven | (talk) 10:25, 16 March 2006 (UTC))

3. Not quite a pill but see Sativex - AllanHainey 15:10, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

1) No idea, ask the NYSDoCJS. 2) FARC, for instance, does trafficing in marijuana, although mainly coca. 3) Yes, the active substance in marijuana, THC is already available in pill form. It is cheap when legally produced. 4) I seriously doubt the state would produce it. Why would they, even if it were legal? They tend to let the drug companies do it. 5) Presumably making more legal resources available for other crimes. And medicinal uses, which don't require full legalization, however. 6) If a state law violates federal law, it gets smacked down in SCOTUS. If it doesn't but isn't clearly legal either, you can end up with a situation like in California. --BluePlatypus 15:24, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

1) Impossible to say. Consider a cop who pulls over a drunk driver who then turns out to have some drugs on him. Is the pay for that cop included in your cost of the war on drugs?

2) Yes. In Indonesia there are gangs who are well-connected to terrorism and raise funds through kidnapping, drugs, and pirated videos. Basically, it is asking if criminal activity helps fund other criminal activities.

3) It depends on what you want. If you are trying to make rope, the pill form is rather useless. If you are trying to get high, the pill form works. If legalized, the drug companies would certainly price it around the same level as Viagra.

4) None at all. It would cost money. For example, the cost of police/courts/jails for handling drunks is greater than the income from taxing alcohol. Plus, we'd be paying extra since it will take at least two stoner cops to do the same job as one who isn't stoned.

5) None. What is the major benefit of legalized gambling or alcohol? Maybe some head of a current drug gang will raise his sons to become politicians as the Kennedy's did after their illegal alcohol business was legalized at the end of prohibition. But, I wouldn't consider that a major benefit.

6) Yes - many times. In the 80's, some states raised the speed limit beyond Federal standards. The Feds denied funding for interstates in any state with too high a speed limit. So (after the next state election) the speed limits were reduced again.

All in all, this is the same set of questions that have been raised for over 40 years now. It comes down to: If we legalize a crime, the crime goes away! Why not legalize murder. There are many people I'd like to kill. If it was legal, I'd be right out there doing my share. It would be a great benefit too. Just give me a few days and I'd get rid of a lot of people who waste a lot of our time and money. But, alas, some people are more concerned with getting stoned instead of cleaning up the gene pool. --Kainaw ^(talk) 16:23, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Are you equating marijuana with murder ? Hardly. At worst I would equate it with tobacco and alcohol, both of which are legal. And even if a thing is bad, that doesn't necessarily mean it should be illegal. Adultery isn't typically illegal, because of the obvious problems with enforcement. The same logic should apply to marijuana. StuRat 18:07, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

You got me all wrong. I was simply saying that if we are going to make a current crime legal based on the idea that making it legal will reduce crime and create a benefit to society, then I would prefer it to be murder. I promise, I won't kill the pot heads - well, not many of them. --Kainaw ^(talk) 19:25, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Ever consider that somebody might be waiting for that to occur so they can murder you ? :-) I also fear you are falling into the circular logic trap: "anything which is illegal is bad, and all bad things should be illegal". That argument essentially means that nothing should ever be legalized, like driving a car without having to have a person on foot in front of it waving a red flag. Yes, that was the law at one point in some places.StuRat 00:59, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm sure there are. I currently have a nice collection of enemies. But, if you want to play around with bad comparisons (such as murder and marijuana)... Ever consider that your kid's bus driver (assume you have a kid if you don't) is waiting for marijuana to be legalized so he can get really zoned out before driving all the kids to school? There's always a paper tiger argument. I tend to find them funny - especially when you can add: Won't someone please think of the children!!! --Kainaw ^(talk) 01:07, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

"Driving under the influence" would still be illegal, as it is for someone driving under the influence or other legal drugs, like alcohol. StuRat 01:12, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Actually, medicinal THC would undoubtedly be far cheaper than Viagra. First, Viagra is patented, which means no competition and higher prices for that reason. Second, Viagra had development costs which the Pfizer no doubt needs to recoup (although they no doubt have by now). Third, Viagra is just much more expensive to produce, since it requires some complex organic synthesis. THC can however be extracted from cannabis, which is a far simpler process. Taking those factors into account, the cost of producing THC should be more comparable to Aspirin or Caffine than Viagra. --BluePlatypus 17:43, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

The pill you're looking for is Marinol. It's apparently as well liked by regular marijuana users as nicotine gum is by smokers. Brian G. Crawford 16:43, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Legal drugs are the main funding of crime. Either that or gangster movies lied to me. But back to original question 4, I think New York (world) would definetely benefit from legalizing illegal drugs. First since they are already so popular, it would be a very profitable legitamite business like cigarettes which in turn fuels the economy. Taxes would not be used to controlling drug trafficing and keeping drug dealers in jail so less taxes. Organized crime would become less powerful and there would be alot less drug related murders. Also like previously mentioned people are afraid of people getting high and driving. Well basically illegal or not, driving under the influence is a personal standard and you cant stop it. People who drive under the influence do not really care if the substance they are using is legal or not. Tutmosis 03:06, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Saying that illegal drugs fund terrorists therefore we should legalize drugs and terrorists will be out of money is just plain ignorant. What some fail to realize is that economically, anything illegal generates an overhead value of perpetrating crime, and that is what the terrorists are exploiting. Take away the crime from producing an (arguably) harmless drug like marijuana, and they simply adjust to dealing worse things like oxycontin or heroin or whatever. What would you rather have, a healthy market for illegal marijuana and the knowledge that some terrorists may have made money off getting a patriot high, or a legal market for marijuana, and a flood of lower cost higher risk drugs like cocaine or x-tacy because terrorists still gotta make a buck, and they will do it however they can... Replace terrorists for organized crime in the previous statement and the effect is the same. Not that I agree with drug use, or our (America's) drug policy, or anyone in general, but I think this is an interesting aspect that deserves some attention. --Jmeden2000 22:40, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I would expect them to move into other criminal fields, but the fewer fields open to them the better. Marijuana, in particular, can be grown just about anywhere, so is difficult to control. Other drugs, particularly methamphetamines, are quite difficult to produce, so could be easily stopped if we would just make the effort (for example, by requiring prescriptions for pseudoephedrine products, from which meth is made). And terrorists trying to move into new criminal markets may get some major trouble from the current drug lords in those fields, who will not appreciate the competition. You could even get an unholy alliance where the current drug lords report the terrorist to the DEA to get them shut down. Limited law enforcement agency resources could also be focused on the serious public health issues, not marijuana. StuRat 01:34, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Adelaid (Adelaide?) Stevenson

I am trying to find a book about or book by or a website relating to him. I believe he was a politician during McCarthy era.... any help given would be most appreciated.

Is Adlai Stevenson who you were looking for? --Bth 15:05, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, and he's not from Adelaide, Australia. StuRat 17:47, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Adlai is of Hebrew origin, and its meaning is "my ornament." Also represents an Aramaic contracted form of Adaliah (Hebrew) "God is just." --DLL 19:48, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Offhand, I can't think of anybody else (well-known) with that name. Are there any? Are there variants of the name? --Halcatalyst 23:10, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Google came up with a few. I wonder how many are named for the Stevensons? User:Zoe|^(talk) 23:27, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Adlai also appears to be a rare surname -- [1]. User:Zoe|^(talk) 23:31, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, there was his grandfather, Adlai E. Stevenson, who was a U.S. Vice President. JackofOz 23:42, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

There's AES I (Vice-President), his grandson (AES II Governor of Illinois), his son (AES III, Senator from Illinois), his son (AES IV, a Chicago newscaster) and his son (AES V, aged 12)! There was also an Adlai Stevenson Hardin, another grandson of AES I, and his son, ASH Jr, a judge in NY. Don't know of any unrelated Adlai's, though. The name seems to have entered the family via AES I's maternal grandfather, Adlai Osborne Ewing. - Nunh-huh 03:45, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Wow, I'd a laid odds against there being so many. StuRat 01:15, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

The Zacharias Moussaoui trial

I've been following the Zacharias Moussaoui trial from a distance (other-side-of-the-atlantic distance) and from what I understand the prosecution is trying to award him the death-penalty because he could have come forward and revealed the 9/11 plot. This is correct, yes?

What I'm wondering is that isn't that argument legally dubious due to the fifth amendment? What I'm saying is that if you want to prosecute him as an accomplice to the 9/11 plot, fine, but can you really prosecute someone for not speaking out when doing so he would incriminate himself? Oskar 17:25, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

I believe he was found guilty of assisting in the plot, not withholding info. However, in the sentencing phase, they are arguing that by withholding info he caused deaths, which would make him eligible for the death penalty. And yes, this is shaky ground. I suspect he will get life in prison, instead. StuRat 17:51, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

To an outside observer it seems very strange indeed.... Why don't they use the argument that he should get the death-sentance because he actually caused deaths by helping int the planning, not just assister by not saying anything? Can't you get the death-sentance for just assisting a crime under federal law? Thanks for the answer btw Oskar 18:03, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

His claim, which seems to be supported by the evidence, is that he was training for a future repeat of 9-11, and not for 9-11 itself. As such, this makes him ineligible for the death penalty, since he didn't actually cause any deaths but was only planning to do so. The prosecution is therefore arguing that he at least had knowledge of 9-11, so did cause deaths by withholding info, and is thus eligible for the death penalty. Yes, it's a stretch. And no, I don't expect it to convince the judge. StuRat 18:13, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

They don't have to convince the judge - they have to convince the jury. All death sentences in the U.S. have to be handed down by a jury in a separate phase of the trial after the conviction. The judge only decides what may or may not be presented as evidence. Rmhermen 19:19, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

That's not entirely true, the judge has the power to pull the death penalty off the table. Some jurisdictions also allow the juries to determine guilt but leave the sentencing to the judge. Also, in other cases, the defendant may opt to bypass the jury and have the judge decide. This is sometimes felt to be good for a hated defendant who is technically innocent (due to a warrantless search, for example). In such cases, juries are more likely to find them guilty, anyway. StuRat 00:54, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't believe that your statements are correct since Ring v. Arizona in 2002. See [2] Rmhermen 17:47, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

My reading on that decision is that the jury must find the defendant guilty and decide if all the conditions exist to make the defendant eligible for the death penalty. However, the judge typically still has the final word on whether the death penalty is actually imposed. That is, unless there was a mandatory death sentence for a crime, which, AFAIK, is never the case. StuRat 01:09, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification, guys. Oskar 21:56, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

child neglect

what effect would child neglect have on children between the ages of 0- 16?

A simple Google search gives some good info. Here's a site with some detail on the different kinds of neglect. The effects can be physical (malnutrition, injury, etc) and emotional (low self-esteem, psychological damage, etc). -- Наташа ( ^User ♡ ^Talk ) 20:58, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Child neglect redirects to Child abuse, but that article is woefully short on neglect, as is the abuse template. Seems like systemic bias supported by focusing the template on abuse. - Taxman ^Talk 20:43, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Music in East Germany

Were records from bands such as Kraftwerk, Neu! and Can (and other krautrock) available in East Germany, or had the groups in question been banned? —DO'Neil 21:01, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

I believe they were permitted, although in practice it was no doubt pretty difficult to get your hands on the records (as with anything imported). This page says Kraftwerk even tried to get permission to play there but were denied, supposedly because they needed to bring computers. --BluePlatypus 00:41, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

meaning of a snoop dogg song lyric

i have asked everyone i know and i have been wondering forever any help would be most gratful in telling me what the lyric means (i treat a bitch like 7-up never have never will) i know it is crazy but it is in my head to find out what this means thanks for your help in finding the answer

I can't believe I'm answering this. 7-up, the beverage, had an advertising slogan about caffeine: "Never had it, never will." It never had any caffeine, and it never would. One assumes that Mr. Dogg is suggesting that he has never had the lady in question, in some sense, and never intends to "have" her, either. Geogre 22:01, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

7-up makes some think of Snow White (the princess). --DLL 18:12, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

i think he's talking about the caffeine line but more in the sense that he's a player and will never let a 'bitch' make him settle down.

Well the whole thing goes:

A-hah, niggaz be brown-nosing these hoes and shit. Takin bitches out to eat, and spendin money on these hoes, knowhatI'msayin? I treat a bitch like 7-Up I never have I never will I tell a bitch like this Bitch, you without me is like Harry Melvin without Bluenotes You'll never go platinum

So, I guess, just like 7-up never had caffeine, Snoop will never take a b*&#ch to dinner or spend money on her. Does that mean he takes men out to dinner and buys men things?

Healthy / Unhealthy lifestyles

Can you please list at least 5 aspects of a healthy lifestyle and 5 aspects of an unhealthy lifestyle. Finally, please comment on the advantages and disadvantages of both aspects

I'm sure we can. Please do your own homework. Geogre 22:02, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Lifestyle diseases offers some useful information. --Halcatalyst 22:29, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

sociology

What is meant by identity, how is identity formed, and to what extent can we shape our own identity

Well, the article Identity (social science) isn't too helpful in itself, but it does contain links to some articles that are more thorough, including self-image, self-concept, and self (psychology). Chuck 00:13, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Identity can also be formed through reflection following Doing Our Own Homework.

I get tired of these frequent admonitions to questioners to do their own homework. Can't asking questions be part of homework? Or are they only allowed in the classroom (where nobody wants to, I wonder why)? How about we get our noses out of the air? --Halcatalyst 22:25, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

P.S., not that it's never appropriate to say it, but do we have to scold? --Halcatalyst 22:27, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

I think the "Do your own homework" is not a way to discourage the slacker students but rather to discourage the other helpdesk people from rewarding the slacker. I.e. I don't think the lazy kids ever even look again (if they knew how to find the help desk page in the first place -- they are, after all, lazy to start with), but rather to stop other people from going ahead and doing the homework for the lazy kid and thereby rewarding him or her, if he or she does manage to find the page. It's not that I mind answering an obvious question, but I do not like the idea of helping a cheater prosper. Having spent all those years in college not cheating and watching cheaters win, and then all these years teaching and having to waste my time coming up with clever clever ways of preventing the cheats, I darn sure don't want to be part of a system that rewards the incurious. Geogre 02:36, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

By the way, not that I think anyone's saying it's not, but I think Chuck's answer was right on target. He directed the person where to find the answers without spoonfeeding. This is exactly what a reference librarian would do, and I think it's a great service. Makemi 02:44, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, although I understand despairing at people who haven't found the Search box. (And sociology is a social science rather than one of the humanities, so, if we wanted to be picky and despairing....) Geogre 10:38, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Parole

My friend was sent to jail for 3 and a half years and I was wondering is he able to get parole? If so when?

That depends very much on what jurisdiction he is in and what he was convicted of. Could you provide some more details? Chuck 00:10, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Demonic possession

Lately there's a lot Demonic possession incident covered in Indonesian media (TV), with dozens of people affected. Is there such cases in any other countries (Demonic possession which affect a group of people)? roscoe_x 00:02, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

See Salem witch trials. User:Zoe|^(talk) 01:36, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Dont take it as a fact but I believe in Italy there are alot of posessions. Tutmosis 03:08, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

March 16

Searching for 3 movies

I have a couple movies I cant seem to find or remember, brief description below:

1. Some woman has a gorilla as a pet in a suburban setting and the movie basically revolves around her and the monkey relationship.
2. Set I believe in new york city, some monster goes around ripping hearts out. 2 or 1 cop tries to catch it. Final battle is in a water sunken subway.
3. Some tv eletrician is a serial killer. Cops go and get him at his store. He skins one of them and wears his skin. Eventually half way through the movie gets caught. Gets the death penalty, gets electrecuted and posses some bystander lady.

Thanks, this movies are early 90's, late 80's. The monkey one i have no idea. Tutmosis 03:33, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

1. I can think of either Buddy or Born to Be Wild.
2. Not sure, thinking about it.
3. is it Ghost in the Machine? ☢ Ҡi∊ff⌇↯ 05:08, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

The first one also sounds like Bedtime for Bonzo, but that's a chimp and a gorilla/future president Reagan. The third is a combination of Silence of the Lambs and Fallen. In the latter, Denzel Washington plays a policeman chasing a demon that goes from body to body. Geogre 11:49, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Umm I dont think any of those are it guys...Tutmosis 14:41, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure on the first two but the third one is the movie Shocker staring Mitch Pileggi of X-Files fame. Pardon my lack of formatting skills http://imdb.com/title/tt0098320/plotsummaryNigelthefish 18:56, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

The first one is most likely Mighty Joe Young. The last one sounds very much like Fallen. --Kainaw ^(talk) 19:00, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Second movie is Split Second http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0105459/, set in London with Rutger Hauer. My favorite action Halloween movie. JK

First movie could be "Max mon amour" (1986), directed by Nagisa Oshima and starring Charlotte Rampling. Please let us know once you have found what you are looking for and let's find out what it was... Good luck!

how can I email the author of this article?

To Help Wikipedia Ref. Librarian From peterwshelley

'''QUESTION: WHO WROTE THIS ARTICLE? I WOULD LIKE TO EMAIL THEM ABOUT MORE INFO SOURCE FOR INTERSTER TV SHOW

Removed whole cut-and-paste of the article Television in South Africa and your email address...

In answer to your question, no one person wrote the article. If you click on the history tab at the top of the Television in South Africa article, you can see a list of the Wikipedia users who have contributed to the article. If you want to add information about Interster, just click on the "edit this page" tab and add the information yourself! That's how the amazing Wikipedia works! --Canley 06:47, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Sigurd

This is kind-of a strange qustion. What version of Sigurd story is considered better, the Edda poems or the Volsunga saga? KeeganB

It depends on what you mean by "better," but the Volsunga Saga had much the larger effect on music and literature. It was a sensation in the later 19th century. The eddic version is pretty brief, and I'm sure it influenced a number of other Icelandic writers, but the Volsunsaga is the one that influenced poets, novelists, and composers in other languages and nations. I would also argue that it's better from a literary point of view, since it's closer to what we expect in terms of narrative literature. Geogre 11:52, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Osama bin laden

How many countries do/did want bin Laden captured or killed? or how many countries are/ was helping to get bin Laden?
USA wanted him to be killed for sure.Suraj vas 10:05, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

The United States would prefer to have Osama captured alive. If killed, he becomes a martyr. The U.N. considers him a wanted criminal - but to be specific about countries that are after him, the following countries have had direct acts of terrorism on their land related to Osama: The U.S., U.K., France, Spain, China, Israel, and Indonesia. Afghanistan and Pakistan are both actively hunting for Osama (being paid to do so by the U.S.). Russia still has a healthy dislike for him ever since they were driven out of Afghanistan. The Saudis claim to have disowned him and claim that they would arrest him if he came back. That is the position of the more powerful countries. The less powerful ones tend to follow the views of whichever country is providing them with the most money and/or military. As for powerful countries that support Osama: Iran, Palestine, Indonesia (I list it in both sections because it is a very divided country), and various political/military groups around Africa. But, so summarize... Osama bin Laden is not wanted only by the United States. It would make a good movie though. I wonder if Michael Moore reads this? --Kainaw ^(talk) 13:52, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Indonesia does not support Osama, rather it is Osama and affiliates who trained and funded terrorists and subversives there, they kinda exploited internal turmoils in Indonesia for their fundamentalist goals. Indonesia, which is the largest Muslim-majority country in the world, could have been a strong partner with US against terrorism because of its moderate Muslim population, unfortunately, US currently isn't paying much attention to that region. --Vsion 09:34, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

You missed Yemen, Tanzania, Kenya, Jordan, Saudi Arabia were attacks occured - probably more still. Rmhermen 18:36, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

• Just about every government on the planet wants him captured. While he may have some support in Palestine and other Arab nations (But not particularily much in Iran; Osama doesn't consider Shiites to be true muslims). Not every country is actively participating. It's not like there's much Iceland or Bolivia could do, except promise to grab him if they see him. But it's safe to say there's no government that would publicly harbor him. Even Libya, a traditional haven for terrorists, has swung around considerably in the last years. Saudi Arabia wouldn't just arrest him, they'd execute him for his terrorism in that country. (In case you missed it, Bin Laden's first and foremost goal has always been to unseat the Saudi government.) If there was any government prepared to harbor him, he'd already be in that country. Given that there isn't, what remains is what he's probably doing, hiding around in Afghanistan-Pakistan where he has popular support and people prepared to hide him. --BluePlatypus 14:24, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

What about Venezuela? --Username132 (talk) 21:37, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Seriously? Chavez has nothing at all to gain from helping Bin Laden. While leftie South Americans aren't crazy about "yanquis", they hardly condone killing them in the name of a fundamentalist interpetation of a religion they don't have, in order to promote a political agenda that runs totally opposite to their own. Chavez anti-USA rhetoric and Castro-cuddling is mostly that: Rhetoric. It scores points with the demographic that supports him. The same goes for a lot of the anti-Chavez rhetoric in the USA. That doesn't mean Chavez isn't an asshole, who's continually extended his powers and weakened democracy and free speech in his country. Although he does still enjoy popular support. But that's the same situation as with the USA's trusty ally Vladimir Putin. In any case, the USA is still buying oil from Venezuela, literally "business as usual". Also, keep in mind the rest of the world doesn't have the grudge against Chavez the USA does, apart from voicing concerns about democracy there (as in Russia). But they'd have a heck of a lot more against him if he started harboring terrorists.

Any country that would give Bin Laden a safe haven would undoubtedly be hit with economic sanctions, just like Libya was. And I just can't think of any country where Al-Qaida's popularity would outweigh the economic disaster incurred by helping them. (Not to mention a possible invasion) --BluePlatypus 23:02, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Unless they had nuclear weapons, I think any country that publicly harbored bin Laden would most definitely face a US invasion, just as Afghanistan did. StuRat 00:55, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

And Iraq, Sadam may have to been able to shine clinton's cock when it came to slaughtering his own people, but by supporting and cheering for bin laden, he crossed a lineHow cme tkn4 01:56, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Iraq never harbored bin Laden, and, AFAIK, never publicly supported him either. If you have proof to the contrary, please enlighten me. Others who did cheer on bin Laden, like the Palestinians, not only were not invaded or bombed by the US, but actually received US financial support, at least until they went and elected a self-admitted terrorist organization (Hamas) to lead them. StuRat 17:27, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Hamas are not self-admitted terrorists; they regard themselves as freedom fighters. What's the difference? You tell me. --Halcatalyst 00:18, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Using suicide bombers to intentionally blow up busloads (or restaurants) full of civilians is the difference, and this is what Hamas admits to doing and apparently plans to continue doing, especially if they can get more funds from Europe to buy more bombs. StuRat 04:14, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Granted, the other side (us) doesn't send out suicide bombers, although our side causes the same type of civilian death and destruction (in spades), refering to this as the regrettable but important, nay essential, collateral damage.

• So, what's the difference between terrorists and freedom fighters, other than one's point of view? --Halcatalyst 05:13, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Terrorists would be "those supported by people who make no distinction between targeting civilians and killing them while targeting military targets". - Nunh-huh 11:04, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Actually Saddam never supported bin Laden, or vice versa. There were no ties between the secular Iraqi governmnet of Saddam and Al'Quaida. Infact if I remember right Osama once asked the U.S.A. (when they were still allies) for permission to assassinate Saddam but they refused. AllanHainey 13:19, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Gelato

hi guys im am doing an italain project for italy and was wondering in which part of sicily does gelato come from

thanks renee

This webpage suggests it originated in Greece or China ~1000BC, though it was significantly developed by a Sicilian called Francisco Prokopioo in the C17th. These two pages suggest that the answer to your question might be "Mount Etna" -- in ancient times, its higher reaches were the only source of frozen water in that climate. --Bth 10:51, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

The guy created the "café Procope" in Paris, France. His story may be searched thus also. --DLL 18:08, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

The oldest trick

What is the oldest trick in the book? Ohanian 11:46, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Oh, no! We're not falling for that. Asking hypothetical questions is the oldest trick in the book! Geogre 11:54, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

One candidate for oldest trick in the book might be Harriet Sohmers Zwerling, whom the New Yorker magazine recently (13 March 2006) called the city's grande horizontale. "Which is wonderful," she said. "I'm seventy-seven fucking years old." --Halcatalyst 16:50, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

• In magic, the oldest trick in the book is considered to be the Cups and balls. First performed in ancient Egypt. But one Dedi did a decapitation trick around that time too. - 131.211.210.17 10:44, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Israeli National Health Service

Can anyone please inform me whether an Israeli citizen who has lived outside Israel for twenty years comes to Israel, can benefit immediately from the Israeli National Health Service. Thank you.

Surely the Israeli National Health Service can tell you. Presumably they have a site under http://www.gov.il somewhere? --Anonymous, 00:00 UTC, March 17, 2006.

They have a contact page. Superm401 - Talk 04:46, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

What does "Hame Baham" mean?

I think it's farsi. If no one knows the answer, can anybody direct me to a place where I could find an answer?

Question also found in the language reference dsk. --DLL 18:06, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

The new revelation

I have read the book called The New Revelation. I would like to submit the book as article. Anyone can help me? —This unsigned comment was added by Ahanibal (talk • contribs) 15:36, March 16, 2006 (UTC).

It is easier than you think. Create a user account (it is free!). Then, click on The New Revalation and create the new article.--Kainaw ^(talk) 14:53, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Or better still, click on The New Revelation. Bear in mind that you have to write an article about the book, using a neutral point of view. You cannot copy any part of the book onto this web site (except for very limited and clearly marked quotations). The article needs to say something worthwhile (e.g. beyond just listing the author and date), or it will just be deleted. (P.S. I see someone has already created this article, but it will be deleted very soon.) Notinasnaid 15:02, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Copyright constraints can be ignored for this text though. At least if it's the Arthur Conan Doyle book, since that's no longer copyrighted. --BluePlatypus 16:28, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Suffragan of Prague

When did Olomouc become suffragan of Prague? It should be sometime in the fifteenth century I think, but anything more specific would be greatly appreciated. I think that suffragan is a sort of religious authority one city's religious leaders have over another city's religious leaders, but of course in that period this was a lot more meaningful for political things than it is now. Thanks, Makemi 17:08, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Finally figured it out. In case anyone's interested, Suffragan usually refers to a kind of sub-bishop, but can also refer to a sub-diocese, under the archdiocese. Olomouc became suffragan diocese of Prague at the same time Prague became archdiocese, in 1344. I was reading something totally unrelated (about notation) and it did one of those "When Olomouc became suffragan of Prague" and I became thoroughly lost. Makemi 17:45, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

This site is best for this (if I may say so) rather obscure subject. As I understand it suffragans are proper bishops with proper dioceses in the Catholic Church. (In the Anglican Church they are not. They come below bishops and look after a part of the diocese). Jameswilson 23:59, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, they are "real" bishops, but they are under the authority of the Arch-bishop. The Anglican church doesn't have quite as thorough a hierarchy as the Roman Catholic church. In this particular case it was a bit more confusing because I thought it might be getting into the whole Utraquist/Hussite issue. And yes, it's really obscure, which is why I couldn't figure it out at first. Thanks, Makemi 01:43, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Is it better to say...

...whilst adenoviruses have a larger cloning capacity (about 35 kb) (Bob et. al., 2009).

or

...whilst adenoviruses have a larger cloning capacity (about 35 kb; Bob et. al., 2009).

I'm sure I've seen it done the second way before... --Username132 (talk) 19:17, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Either version is OK but the second reads more easily, so I'd go with that one. Do people still say "whilst"? JackofOz 19:43, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, I'd say the first. When you use parenthetical reference, the parenthetical expression has to be the reference. I.e. you can't mix your words with your citation. Geogre 21:21, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

I concur in and with Geogre; though surely neither usage is altogether wrong, the latter is generally disfavored. With respect to "whilst", few in the US use the locution (I happily count myself amongst their archaic number), but many in the UK, I think, still use the term (see, e.g., [3]). Joe 21:30, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, in the UK we use both, although I think I generally favour 'whilst', since that's the first word to spring to mind as I attempt to string a sentence together. It's really weird that it's considered so old in the US! --Username132 (talk) 21:34, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

I've always been interested in that difference, which is why I just went out to dictionary.com to see what I could find. It seems whilst comes from Middle English whilest, alteration of whiles, whiles. See whiles, it commanded, so I did. You'll have to go see for yourself what I learned. From a linguistic standpoint, it looks like the two usages simply evolved differently. I see no reason to regard either as old-fashioned, since they're both very much alive in different places. --Halcatalyst 22:19, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

"Whilst" is pretty much dead in colloquial language in Australia, but it crops up in formal contexts. On public transport, you'll see notices like "Please do not converse with the driver whilst the tram/bus is in motion", and "Look both ways when alighting from the carriage". This seems to be an attempt to use "proper" language, which I recognise is often required from a legal standpoint (even though plain English would usually be more effective). But "whilst" is no more formal or appropriate than "while". I think the writers are just trying too hard to appear to be bureaucratic, and going overboard. JackofOz 00:06, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

"Alighting": That's another word I daresay you'd never hear in the US. It has such an airy sound. I was going to say "light and airy." Contrasts with "get off," doesn't it? :P But the latter has Anglo-Saxon claims. --Halcatalyst 01:19, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Oh, and carriage. That's sooooooooo nineteenth century. Well, I guess we all have to go back to our roots. It's just when we carry them around with us.... ;-) --Halcatalyst 01:21, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

All this talk of "getting off" and "roots" is giving me some ideas for the weekend .... JackofOz 01:45, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I've virtually shouting rows with my former PhD supervisor over the use of while/whilst. He's an Aussie and hates whilst, calling it archaic. I'm a NZer, and the word is still used here and has a subtle difference in that "while" has an implication of "at the same time" whereas "whilst" implies "although". These are only slight nuances though; for most purposes the two terms are virtually synonymous. Grutness...wha? 08:09, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

"While" performs both functions on this side of the Tasman.

• (although) "While I've read this book, I haven't read that one". We'd never say "whilst" in that case.
• (at the same time) "I fell asleep while I was reading this book". This is the only sense where "whilst" would be possible. But very uncolloquial. JackofOz 08:20, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

• It's exactly the same in the US. So, did you guys emigrate from America? --Halcatalyst 00:12, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

• Today's Trivia Surprise: "The English language didn't actually start in America." :-) JackofOz 00:57, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

• Wha....? --Halcatalyst

The English language wasn't invented in America. It was just perfected there. Geogre 17:32, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

federal empolyment for a convicted felon

If someone is a convicted felon and sex offender. Are they precluded form working federal civil service?

First, what country are you referring to? Assuming it is the U.S., it would depend on the clearance required for the job. --Kainaw ^(talk) 21:25, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

I Dig Those Blues...

The beginning of the song 'Harden My Heart' by 'Quarterflash' features a short instrumental that I really dig... who does Blues like this? --Username132 (talk) 21:30, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

What? Please suitly emphazi your question. Luigi30 (Ταλκ) 21:41, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Orson Welles film "Othello" film in Ireland in 1955

Thank you so very much for all your guidance.

I am working on my Ph.D. dissertation on the films of Orson Welles. It has come to my attention that Orson Welles filmed an Othello using British and Irish actors during the year of 1955.

The actors involved were: Robert Coute, Michael MacLiammoir, Suzanne Cloutier, and Michael Laurence. My research has provided little information regarding the "bios" and any clear "head shots" taken of the above-mentioned cast members. They would prove to be immensely helpful.

Should you possess any reviews, bio information, or pictures of the above, I would be deeply grateful.

I have never used this service and am a wee bit confused about not leaving my email address. I shall leave all pertinent information for you.

Most sincerely,

DeLaine Morrow <email removed>

I wonder about the propriety of one's researching a doctoral dissertation at the Humanities Reference Desk of Wikipedia, but, in any case, perhaps the IMDB listing may provide more information, at least as to the filmographies of the actors whom you mention. Joe 00:00, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Hatcatalyst suggests that my assessment that it was rather odd for a doctoral candidate to be posing queries about his/her research topic at the Reference Desk was perhaps overly harsh, and, having considered the several factors involved, I am inclined to agree and consequently strike through that text; I surely hope that I haven't turned anyone off to using the Reference Desk, which thought I also conveyed in an e-mail to DeLaine (although of course DJ is correct in writing below that infrequency of usage militates against one's leaving an e-mail address). Joe 02:23, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

We don't recommend leaving emails becase 1) hardly anybody replies using them and 2) it's just asking to get huge amounts of spam. Replies will be left on this page. You should return and view it periodically. DJ Clayworth 00:02, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Pretty well known film, The Tragedy of Othello: The Moor of Venice - in 1952 it won the Grand Prize at Cannes. It has been available in a restored version on video since 1992 and on videodisk since 1995. Rmhermen 00:02, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

IMDB gives some present-day reviews of it which are interesting. DJ Clayworth 00:05, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

March 17

Axioms

Hi, I read the article about axioms but I don't understand the examples...since I only see the symbol of an empty set followed by other symbols I have never seen before. can someone give me a couple of 'non-mathematical' (lingüistic and philosophical) examples that mean the same thing as the examples in the article? I mean, translate them somehow? because I have no clue what those mathematical sentences mean. :|.--Cosmic girl 01:11, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Discrete mathematics is a logical disipline which deals with real world quantities rather than abstract ones, if that helps. It's not big on axioms, though. --Halcatalyst 01:25, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

That said, all logic and mathematics (for example, Euclid), used to be expressed in words rather than symbols. You could say that the major premise in Aristotelian logic is an axiom. To cite the well-worn example,

All men are mortal.

Socrates is a man.

Therefore, Socrates is a mortal.

IMHO, though very useful in sorting things out, this sort of logic, and all logic really, doesn't create new knowledge, only realizations. I guess you could call me analogical. Just don't call me anal. --Halcatalyst 01:35, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, an example of an axiom in ordinary words would be "If A is exactly the same thing as B, then B is exactly the same thing as A". As you see, it's something so simple that it can be considered self-evident. Once you have a couple of these (a system of axioms) you can start combining them and eventually turn up with conclusions that aren't that self-evident at all. That's basically how math works. --BluePlatypus 02:09, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

The original idea of an axiom was that it would be something self-evidently true. When Euclid wrote his great treatise on geometry, he used axioms like "Two things that are equal to the same thing are equal to each other"; "if equals are added to equals, the sums are equal"; and "any line can be extended indefinitely in a straight line" (although he also used one axiom that was not so self-evident -- the parallel postulate -- evidently because without it he could not prove things he wanted to prove).

However, mathematicians later came to believe that while axioms should be as simple as possible, there is no need for them to be self-evidently true; what matters is whether, if you assume a particular set of axioms, you can derive a consistent system of mathematics containing interesting, non-obvious results. For example, it turns out that by assuming alternative axioms contrary to the parallel postulate, you get either of two interesting systems of non-Euclidean geometry. So in math, an axiom now is simply something you choose to assume as true for the purpose of proving other things. If it happens to relate to something in the real world, that's nice, but it's not necessary.

Outside of math, though, people are likely to expect anything called an "axiom" to be self-evidently true.

--Anonymous, 04:00 UTC, March 17, 2006.

Nice, thanx!, do you think that Axioms are tautologies? I mean...they can only justify themselves within logic, but never provide a basis for logic besides and beyond it's inner consistence? (meaning a WHY is it this way instead of something else)...is it this way?.--Cosmic girl 17:35, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Not really. A tautology is more like a statement that can be boiled down to "If X, then X". You can get somewhere with "justifying" axioms because you can examine the consequences if you adopt or don't adopt certain axioms (there's lots of fascinating stuff in mathematics like this, for instance the parallel postulate mentioned above or the axiom of choice). Different geometries with different basic sets of axioms all "exist" in some sense and apply in different circumstances. --Bth 19:52, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I C, thnx! :).--Cosmic girl 22:09, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

By the way, it turns out that the parallel postulate is basically a way of saying that the geometric figures are being drawn in a flat plane. Those were the sort of figures that Euclid wanted to consider. One type of non-Euclidean geometry is spherical geometry, which concerns figures drawn on the surface of a sphere. Instead of three straight lines, for example, a triangle is formed from (arcs of) three great circles, for example. If Euclid considered such figures, he would have considered them as part of 3-dimensional space and relating to things outside the sphere. But in spherical geometry you can study the surface of a sphere as a self-contained 2-dimensional object. Some theorems of Euclidean geometry still apply (the ones you could prove without using the parallel postulate), while others do not. --Anonymous, 00:45 UTC, March 18, 2006.

Osama bin laden and the 9-11 attacks

By taking American lives during, early in the 2000-2004 term, a time when George Bush was still bogged down by clinton's mind boggling security failures and shortsights, that he was trying to promote a democrat to the office by making Bush look weak? Ironic isn't it that even with democrats going all out playing the national security card, it worked to the opposite goal, and the American people will probably never again be foolish enough to surrendor the country to a democratic anything, and Bin Laden's goal of a democratic presidency will have failed, permanetly forcing his party of choice, the democrats, out of all 3 branches of government?--Demos ocracy 02:01, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Is this a rhetorical question? If not, the answer is "No, not really.". --Canley 02:22, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Notwithstanding my general agreement with Canley's response and my general dislike of the use of the Reference Desk to advance arguments through questions, I would note that it is not settled that bin Laden would prefer a Democratic administration and surely not settled that his pronouncements in mid-2004 aided the Kerry campaign (see, e.g., Bush's recent concession that bin Laden's late October speech likely helped the Bush campaign).

Or maybe bin Laden really wants the Republicans to win and thought that by attacking the U.S., he would get people to think just like you and vote for the GOP! My guess is bin Laden doesn't really care who is the president of the U.S. as long as he's an "infidel." -- Mwalcoff 02:59, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I remember back in the 1960s some New Left activists were hoping the Republicans (or whatever they considered right-wingers) would win so the world could see how terrible things were and then the Revolution would occur. I always thought that was an insane way to approach politics. Why not just Revolution Now? Or do it the regular way (democratically). Otherwise, sit down and shut up. --Halcatalyst 03:17, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

But I guess OBL doesn't have either option. So he's found a middle way: Pardon me if I object. I'm anti-authoritarian, so how could I like people who kill you if you don't agree with them? Or even if you do, randomly? --Halcatalyst 03:23, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Or maybe he doesn't even want people to vote for the GOP, but is rather just trolling wikipedia in an attempt to make Republicans look bad? --BluePlatypus 04:27, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Tout est possible. I don't pretend to understand how such minds work. But this would be an odd place to do it; do you suppose he's getting his jollies because we're having this conversation? --Halcatalyst 05:10, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

In the news today, the US was in a small minority voting against improvements to the United_Nations_Human_Rights_Council on the grounds, according to Ambassador John Bolton, that the move doesn't go far enough. He insists that the problem be solved completely or not at all. To me, this is the same kind of political rigidity as is exemplied by the New Left, and countless other ideologies I could name of all political stripes. --Halcatalyst 05:27, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I think there's something to both theories:

1) Allowing the group opposite to your own to take power temporarily can, eventually, discredit them and put your group back in power. A good example would be communism. After the experiment in the Soviet Union and China, most people inside and outside those countries have been convinced that offering no economic incentive to work is ultimately bad for a country. Had those experiments never been done, we would still have a world full of revolutionaries wanting to try communism. A current example might be Muslim fundamentalism. Living in a country where all the laws are "made by God" might sound like a paradise until they see it in practice. In Afghanistan, women being beaten in the streets for what some unelected thug thinks is inappropriate clothing, and art, literature, music, and even kites being destroyed by religious nutjobs quickly convinced much of the population that this was not quite the paradise they had in mind.

2) Refusing to accept a compromise position and insisting on getting your full demands sometimes works, and sometimes fails. Accepting the compromise and then pressing for more later, also sometimes works and sometimes fails. StuRat 14:44, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

But for this to work, it would have to assume that Bin Laden knew that Bush would have won the 2000 election, which, as we recall, was not at all clear even after the election had finished. The 9-11 attacks took years of preparation, and the idea that the outcome of the national elections ten months before played any part in their execution seems very unlikely. --Fastfission 16:33, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Also, to influence an election they should attack right before the election, as was done to influence the election in Spain. If they allow too much time, it allows for a counter-attack, like the Afghanistan invasion, which makes the current government look good. StuRat 18:06, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

While i have to agree that political agendas don't belong on wikipedia, I am inclined to offer what's hopefully an unbiased opinion. If you look at the current situation, and say that someone is getting what they want, it would be OBL and Al Qaieda, and not the US. Consider the effects of 9/11. Americans were spurred into international actions that compromised the country's image. Americans made sweeping changes to national policy costing billions of dollars a year in direct expenses, and possibly trillions of dollars over all. While it's impossible to say what the american democrats would have done, since hindsight is indeed 20/20, it would appear that the actions of the republicans in response to 9/11 have lead to an overall loss to America, and that translates into a gain for terrorist agendas. The argument presented as the topic of this thread is nothing more than partisan bickering, something that only serves to further divide Americans (on top of being poorly worded and logically fallacious). What Americans would do if they were clearly concerned with moving the entire country forward, would be to think critically about national and international actions, and demand accountability from elected officials, both democrat and republican. Until that sort of thing becomes more commonplace, both political sides will be able to push selfish agendas and noone (but them, arguably) will win. --Jmeden2000 06:32, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure the Democrats would have still overthrown the Taliban in Afghanistan, but not invaded Iraq. Then again, any Republican President other than Bush would likely have also invaded Afghanistan, and not Iraq. Bush had personal motives for wanting to get Saddam, as he tried to have Bush's father killed. StuRat 14:43, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't quite buy that, for one thing it implies that he might care for a person other than himself, ie his father, two implies that he has a long term memory that reaches all the way back to when his father was the president--152.163.100.72 02:09, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Politics

What is the difference between a premier (as in Gorbachev or Putin) and a prime minister (as in Blair)?

It's explained in the Premier article. Putin is the President though, and is referred to as such. --BluePlatypus 02:34, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Question about Georges Briard

Is there any way to view a deleted page? I am CERTAIN that I read an article about Georges Briard a few days ago on Wikipedia and now it is gone. He was a designer of china about 50 years ago. All I can figure is that the article was deleted. Is there a way to view it? 72.79.9.197 02:36, 17 March 2006 (UTC)Anon

There was no article under that name, no. However, if you know the name of an article, you can ask about it at wp:dr. Be prepared to assert the importance and usefulness of the article in some dispassionate and verifiable way. Geogre 02:40, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

The link worked, but I don't see anywhere to ask/post the question. Help! 72.79.9.197 02:45, 17 March 2006 (UTC)Anon

I looked in the deletion log and didn't see anything for either Georges Briard or George Briard. Are you sure this is the same spelling? Remember that capitalization and diacritics can change where an article is. If the article wasn't deleted, it won't be useful to go to deletion review. Makemi 02:48, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

It is Georges Briard (with the "s" - just type it into a search engine and you'll get 1000's of hits). The Wikipedia article on him was very good in how it explained his real name and how he changed it to this when he went into design work etc. Emmigrated from France etc. A thorough little article (maybe 1500 words). Anyway would it help to know that now that it is Thursday, it may have been as many as 10 days ago that I read the article?? 72.79.9.197 02:53, 17 March 2006 (UTC)Anon

I don't think the deletion log is archived that frequently, so it would still be logged even if it was deleted 10 days ago. I see that he's an glass artist, could the information been under another article, such as one about his company (if he had one), studio, or artistic movement? Perhaps if you browse the categories Category:Glass and Category:Glass art. Makemi 03:05, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm, I am certain the article was about him b/c when I entered the name, I had a choice of selecting an article about him or about a dog breed called "Briard." Georges Briard is perhaps still even alive according to http://www.sgcd.org/child_2004.html 72.79.9.197 03:14, 17 March 2006 (UTC)Anon

No sign of it. Maybe it was a site like Wikipedia. If your browser has a history feature, you could use it to see what pages you were visiting a few days ago. Notinasnaid 13:06, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Literary Critcism

I am doing an essay about the Great Gatsby in my high school english class. The paper was going along fine until I started to look for sources of literary criticism. Most relevant links from google scholar are under protection by JSTOR. Can anyone help point me in the direction as to where I might be able to find sources of literary criticism of the Great Gatsby on the web? -Ridge Racer 04:12, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

You're going to have to use paper resources, if you want anything worth reading. There are sites that have literary criticism, some of it even moderately intelligent, but you would be well advised not to use them. Your teacher is going to prefer print criticism, and, to tell the truth, so are you. The barrier to publication with the web is low. That's good, in that it means a world of plenty, but it also means that there is a world of plenty of junk. Good with bad sit side by side. Unless you feel capable of discerning the expert from the blowhard, the professor from the fellow high school student, the unprotected literary criticism is going to be fairly worthless to you. Hie thee to the library. It's going to be better for you and your grades, and there will be no temptation to accidentally committ plagiarism. Geogre 10:31, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

By the way, if you want to read actual scholarly journals and books online and you're willing to pay a small subscription fee, investigate Questia.com. It's a very serious site and entirely academic (i.e. not one of these cheat sites). I assume you already know about the cheater sites, so we needn't mention those -- they're unfit for a bibliography. Public domain sources will be few to non-existent due to when the novel came out. You're stuck with print or a Questia online version of a print source. Geogre 10:36, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Also, a number of libraries do have onsite access to JSTOR, so if you found some articles which look good to you on there, just take a note of the bibliographic info and then hie thee to the library. Makemi 20:16, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for all of the suggestions, but I managed to grab some books that were on reserve in the school library for over the weekend. I gotta tell my teacher not to reccommend going online for the reasons listed above (which I learned the hard way). Thanks. -Ridge Racer 19:49, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Lanai

The only information under "lanai" is about one of the Hawaiian islands. Would it also be appropriate to have a short reference to lanai as "a type of patio"?

Thanks. 04:18, 17 March 2006 (UTC)66.171.48.138

Yes. A search here (box appears in every page) shows :

• An airport
• An island
• A city, each related ;
• A thrush (kinda extinct bird)
• A house style here, also shown in Disney's tiki room ... Be bold, else someone shall create the disamb page and all before you. --DLL 17:20, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Done. I had a few minutes while here at work :-) See Lanai (disambiguation). Dismas|^(talk) 21:11, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Humid Subtropical climate

How would you describe the vegetation found in a humid subtropical climate? I know that it is a mixed forest, but I haven't been able to find much more other than that. Please help me. Also, how would humans use the land pertaining to the climate? Like, I'm talking like in Florida or something. Well, thank you for your help. Some sites to visit for information or if you can some helpful hints/answers to my questions would be great! thank you so much ~ Jeni

Relationship between Steve Jobs, and Bill Gates.

Thank you for taking the time to review my question.

I have read the biography of Bill Gates, and the biography of Steve Jobs on Wikipedia. I have also read the History of Microsoft Windows. I have seen very few references to the stealing/copying of the first Operating System used by Windows. I remember it saying that Windows strangley resembled the OS released by apple, but there is a great talk about Microsoft stealing whole concept of the OS from apple. I also remember seeing that Apple had in fact saught legal action in this area, but I still have not found any definate answer as to whether Microsoft stole it all from Apple. Is this true? Did Microsoft steal its techknowlogy from Apple, thus propelling itself passed Apple in the coorperate world? Or are a ton of people seeing a coincidence and just acting on what they know, rather then what happened? It seemed to me that Bill Gates built the windows system around MS-Dos, which he had in fact purchased legally, just his OS that he compiled onto the hardware was just similar to Apples "Apple III" OS. Thank you for your time and consideration.

Nathan Sorensen (email removed)

Actually, they both stole it (the visual part) from Xerox, who largely invented the modern GUI for their Xerox Alto computer. But it all depends what you mean by "steal". Do Apple and Microsoft imitate each other's look, innovations, and features? Yes, constantly, and in both directions. Do they steal programs and code? Nobody seems to have said so. Do they steal other forms of intellectual property? This is open to debate, and there have been law suits on whether the idea of a "look and feel" can be protected, or whether good ideas can just be used to improve everyone's products. Notinasnaid 10:39, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

The reason that Windows looks a bit like Macintosh is because Apple CEO John Sculley made an agreement with Microsoft allowing them to use Macintosh's GUI elements in the first version of their OS. A loophole, however, allowed Microsoft to continue using these elements in any future versions of Windows. :( Hmm... Wikipedia says this about it:

Microsoft threatened to discontinue Microsoft Office for the Macintosh if Apple did not license parts of the Macintosh graphical user interface to Microsoft for use in the Windows operating system. Sculley agreed under the pressure, a decision which later affected the Apple v. Microsoft lawsuit.

Interesting... —OneofThem 17:22, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

David Bowie Lyrics - Ashes to Ashes

On the 1979 Number One hit 'Ashes to Ashes' there is barely audible chanting by Bowie behind the second verse and Middle Eight. What are these background vocals on David Bowie Ashes to Ashes saying?

Paul, Hammersmith please email to [ E-mail address removed for your inbox' sanity ] --86.137.88.214 11:04, 17 March 2006 (UTC)You stupid spam-monkey.

Everyone in the world is going to e-mail you (twice over it would appear),

kablam dan

He chants the main lyric. "I never did good things/ I never did bad things/ I never did any thing/ Out of the blue, oh no." On Scary Monsters he does that in other places, as well, where the second singer is echoing (sometimes in Japanese) the main lyric. Geogre 22:38, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Reference to Dali in song by Bowie?

I've heard that there is a reference to a painting by Salvador Dali in the song Life on Mars? by David Bowie. Is this true, if yes, which painting?

Beacharn 19:56, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Hm. not sure - the lyrics could refer to any of a dozen paintings by Dali... you're not thinking of Diamond Dogs, which mentions a girl wearing a Dali brooch, are you? Grutness...wha? 05:47, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

perisan,chinese and american unicorns culture differences?

I found alot about american unicorns but can't find any on perisan and chinese, can you please explain what i'm doing wrong. I'm sure all cultures have some kind of unicorns, i remember reading that somewhere but can't find any information. please help thank you. [removed e-mail]

I assume you're referring to the article Unicorn which mainly deals with European unicorns, but the section Unicorn#Unicorns in antiquity gives a little bit more of a multicultural view. There is also the article Qilin, about a mythical beast which could also be called a unicorn. The problem is that mythical animals tend to have a wide variety of names, and are not all necessarily linked historically or conceptually. Basically, just because a mythical beast in China has a horn, it won't necessarily be called a unicorn in English sources. see also Karkadann, ElasmotheriumMakemi 20:30, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Confucius say: "The truly wise man never plays leapfrog with the unicorn." StuRat 00:56, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

March 18

discussion board

What's the difference between an online reference desk and a discussion borard board? Does it matter, here? --Halcatalyst 00:21, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Is this a rhetorical question, Hal (if I may call you Hal)? —Keenan Pepper 01:09, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

• You may call me Hal but not Hallie (makes me want my momma.)  ;-) Yes, it's a serious question. If it were a rhetorical question, I'd have paused for about a second and a half and then given you my answer. --Halcatalyst 05:59, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Depends - can he call you Betty? Grutness...wha? 05:49, 18 March 2006 (UTC) (with apologies to Paul Simon)

Ah, in that case, you have just made it more of a message board by asking that question. My personal, unstudied and not-so-experienced-with-the-reference-desk-opinion is that the purpose of the reference desk is for people who actually have something to say say something. And hopefully, what they will say is either: here's where to start looking for the answer; or: do your homework; or: this is the answer, and here's where I found it. Makemi 06:05, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Well said, Makemi. Also, the Reference Desk is more structured than a message board because it's divided into askers and answerers (at least for any given question), and because randomly changing subjects is frowned upon. And no, you can't call me Betty. (?) —Keenan Pepper 06:14, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

They are referring to the Paul Simon song "You Can Call Me Al" off the album Graceland, the text of which is here, note the similarity between the names Hal and Al. Makemi 06:20, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

As Keenan noted, the Reference Desk is for asking questions. A message board is for messages. That message may be a question. It may be a statement, like "TV sucks when there is basketball on half the channels." It could be for exposition, like "A freddled gruntbuggly spat on me and then lurdled off after a rather frudled bee." Such postings are not very welcome on the Reference desk because they are not questions. Also, few teenagers post homework questions in the message boards. --Kainaw ^(talk) 20:47, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I was really referring to my 2001 filk (parody) of "You can call be Al", which, for those desperately bored, can be found here (damn difficult song to sing or parody, that one. Weird polyrhythms...). Grutness...wha? 01:33, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

• Here's my view. The reference desk is for asking questions. Anybody can ask, including those who answer them. When that happens, it can legitimately be called a discussion board, and it legitimately is a discussion board as well as a reference desk. Also, there can be some horsing around among the regular "answerers." This is normal, something you see in the workplace, for example, maybe even among reference librarians. If it becomes nothing but kidding around, then it becomes more and more like your garden variety discussion board, of which there are as many around the Internet as you'd ever care to discover.
• So, the question is, really, what do we want here? Well, I'm satisfied with what we've got. But I think we should be conscious (and maybe appreciative) of what we've got. By the way, there was a good reason I didn't pose this question on the reference desk discussion page: because very few contributors here participate there.
• Thanks for your responses. I hope people keep responding for the seven days before the topic disappears into that great ghost town, the Archives. --Halcatalyst 04:56, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
• For those of you who want a fancy name, this here's a meta discussion. --Halcatalyst 05:02, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Weird cartoon

Could someone explain this cartoon to me? I get most of the PBF ones but this one just baffles me. —Keenan Pepper 06:10, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure of the whole context, but the joke seems to be that the girl is blind. Note that her eyes don't seem to have pupils. Makemi 06:14, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Why is her reflection in the mirror weird, then? —Keenan Pepper 06:24, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

I think it's trying to point out how poorly done her makeup is (the goal of most peoples' makeup is not to have huge circles of blush and eyeshadow, although there is a certain aesthetic which values that). Makemi 06:29, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

I think that the girl is a vampire. Vampires do not cast shadows or have reflections. In the mirror all we can see is her clothing and her make-up. Pontificake 08:30, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Doesn't seem that strange to me.. The girl's mother complains about her daughter's use of make-up. The girl complains that the other girls get to use it, thinking that she's opposed to the use of make-up in general. But it turns out that she's just against it because the daughter is so bad at it, thus a humorous situation arises. The humor is heightened by the realization that the daugher is apparently a vampire (and has no reflection in the mirror), so she literally can't see what she's doing. (explaining why she was so bad at it. --BluePlatypus 14:37, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Ah. Vampire. Gotcha. —Keenan Pepper 17:01, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

yeah, the girl is obviously a vampire. you can tell by their stereotypical pointed clothing or by the mom's pointed canines in the upclose pic.-drtyhobo

• Ze aczent iz also ze tell tale, sterotypical eastern european accent, as in romania, more specifically transalvania, dracula, and so forth--152.163.100.72 02:06, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

'critiques on surrealism' paragraph

hello, i am writing a dissertation on surreal film and was wondering whether you can give me the exact source of your 'critiques of Surrealism' paragraph. (feminists have in the past critiqued the surrealist movement for being a fundamentally male movement and a male fellowship.....)

i would really appreaciate if you could let me know as soon as possible what book or website this was taken from. thank you. i would need the original source and not the wikipedia reference.

If it's not sourced in the article (by means of a reference or something), then I'm afraid we can't help you. While we ask editors to cite their sources, not everyone does it all the time. You can try to leave a message on the article's talk page, or else search for the phrase in question on Google. Good luck! — QuantumEleven | (talk) 12:57, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

You can also look through the history of the article to find who wrote that section, then ask them directly. -LambaJan 21:20, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Chinese and Japanese Kamasutra

There is that Indian Kamasutra. Apart from that, even the chinese and the japanese have similar books originating from their country. Can you name what is Chinese kamasutra called and what is Japanese kamasutra called?

The Japanese "Kamasutra" is called Shijuhatte: Shijuhatte Sexual Positions ≈ jossi ≈ t • @ 04:14, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

priory of sion

Is priory of sion a real organisation operating since past protecting secrets about the holy grail and other secrets?

It's a fictional organization operating to make Dan Brown lots of money. Of course, some people believe they exist. Those people are called "conspiracy theorists". --BluePlatypus 18:28, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Is "conspiracy theorist" a synonym for "whacko"? --Nelson Ricardo 18:47, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

That's just what "they" want you to think. :) --BluePlatypus 21:29, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

One may, incidentally, consult our article and the attendant links. It seems fairly clear that Jimbo is actually the Grand Master. Joe 23:00, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

philosophy

is it better to be a hhappy pig or an unhappy human? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.235.209.13 (talk)

Depends on your philosophy. --Slumgum | yap | stalk | 21:10, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

It's a false dichotomy: I know plenty of happy pigs who walk on two feet. Geogre 21:28, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

The Ides of March

Last Wednesday, March 15, it occurred to me to wonder why this date (fatal to Julius Caesar in Shakespeare's play) was called the ides and whether the 15th of every month was so designated. I Googled and found out that only the months of March, May, July and October have the 15th so designated. All other months in the ancient Roman calendar have the ides on the 13th day. Can someone eplain this anomoly further? Thank you. ElizaK

The months with 31 days have the ides on the 15th. The months with 30 days have the ides on the 13th. --Kainaw ^(talk) 21:47, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

It's not that simple. The Ides were on the 15th in March, May, July, and October, which are all 31-day months. I think I remember reading that this was a holdover from the earlier form of the calendar, but I forget the details. --Anonymous, 01:50 UTC, March 19, 2006.

What is not that simple!? It cannot be any simpler. Roman months were either 31 or 30 days. I clearly explained what day the ides fell on for each month length. --Kainaw ^(talk) 02:51, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Ah, I get it. First, I was writing in a hurry and meant to say "which are not the only 31-day months" or something like that. Point is, in the Julian calendar there were 7 months with 31 days, same as today, but the Ides were on the 15th only in the 4 months I named. Second, I was assuming we were talking about the Julian calendar because I think that's the one people usually mean when they speak of the Roman calendar, and also because the question explicitly referred to Julius Caesar. But Kainaw was actually talking about the "earlier form" of the calendar that I spoke of, which in fact is covered in the Wikipedia article, and the statement is correct for that. --Anon, 05:57 UTC, March 19.

The Wikipedia article also gives the dates of the Kalends and Nones for each month, in which one may also be interested. Joe 23:04, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

population

what city/borough/village has the lowest population in the US?

There are a few with zero, such as S.N.P.J., Pennsylvania, which has only part-time residents. -- Mwalcoff 00:18, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

For those with populations, Parker, Pennsylvania (pop. 799) calls itself "The Smallest City in the United States". However, Ismay, Montana only has 26 people. --Kainaw ^(talk) 00:35, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

An odd thing about the US is the way distinctions are made between "city" and "town." Parker is saying it's the smallest city, whatever that means. As far as I know, it means incorporated as a city and not as a town. Probably that depends on the laws of a particular state. All I know is that I live in a city of 3500 souls and my brother lives in a rapidly-growing town of 180,000. I'm sure such distinctions are also artifacts of historical development. He lives near Phoenix, Arizona. --Halcatalyst 04:40, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

"There are 948 cities in Iowa of which more than 870 belong to the League of Cities. Population sizes range from quite small (Beaconsfield, pop. 11) to quite large (Des Moines, pop. 198,652)." "Cities in Iowa." However, there are no localities formally called towns that I know of. --Halcatalyst 04:45, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

It does depend on the state. In Ohio, any municipality with 5,000 or more people at the latest decennial census is a city, and any municipality with fewer people is a village. I know of one city that went from village to city to village and back to city over three censuses. (They never bothered to change the stationery when the population dropped below 5,000.) -- Mwalcoff 05:30, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

March 19

Toshitaka Nomi

Hello I'm New here. I was answered by Nutinasnaid, to which I say yes; I have been unable to contact the ABO-World web-site@the mentioned location which is why in the first place I am contacting you instead.. I am very interested in advancing my knowledge of the material complided by Toshitaka Nomi and his Blood Type Human Studies Institue. Can you shed any light I why I cannot contact the ABO-World web-site? Thank You for your help John C. Revi

It appears to work fine for me (although I can't read Japanese). Perhaps explain the problem in more detail?--inks^T 02:36, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

The page I saw was in English: http://www.human-abo.org/english/message.html. I seem to recall there was no aforementioned location - you never told us the web site - so we may all be talking at cross purposes. John, can you confirm you have tried to e-mail, to telephone, to fax, and to write a letter, and all of these have been successful? Or are you saying you cannot even visit this we page? Please be clear and tell us what web page you mean, and how you have tried to contact. Notinasnaid 10:33, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

death punishment

i want to have some opinions and arguments against Death punishment. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.55.55.32 (talk)

You have to make your own opinion. Slumgum | yap | stalk | 02:04, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Or, if you just want to copy other people's opinions, try reading up on capital punishment (no, it's not the penalty for using all uppercase letters, although perhaps it should be.). StuRat 02:38, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

You cannot merely consider arguments against the death penalty - you must also consider the death penalty itself to keep the question in balance and thus not arrive at an unbalanced conclusion. I suspect the greatest argument against lawful execution is that the sentencing and executing authorities can, and have, at times been demonstrably wrong, and have killed (executed) innocent people in the process. But conversely, those unfortunates who have been wrongly convicted, sentenced, and executed, hopefully in the earnest belief that they were in fact guilty as charged, and sentenced and executed according to law, can never offend again, if in fact they ever did. I recall a TV discussion involving a late British Lord Chancellor (Lord Hailsham aka Quintin Hogg) on this very subject in which he declared that it was far better to let 99 guilty murderers walk free than to erroneously hang (execute) one innocent man. But I also recall hearing a counter-argument that suggested it might be better in a civilised but endangered society to hang (execute) all one hundred, including the one innocent man, so as to make the community a safer place. The justification ran along the lines that the 99 guilty men would never offend again; and the one innocent man would meet his maker sooner rather than later, and would be rewarded in heaven/paradise/eternity for having sacrificed his life in contribution to the betterment of the society on earth he left behind.

You may be amused by the article "n guilty men", a study of how the "it is better to let n murderers free than kill one innocent man" theory has changed over time... Shimgray | talk | 21:26, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

political question

What would happen if the United states pulled out from the middle east?

would there be an increase in terrorist activity or would the politcal situtaion change?--06:51, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm sure that the simple act of removing an American presence from the middle east would count as "changing the political situation". Also, what is it exactly that the US is "pulling out"? Money? Troops? McDonalds?--inks^T 09:25, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

My crystal ball says these will happen

• Civil war in Iraq
• A fundamentalist power will take over Iraq,
• Iran will be nuclear-armed
• Russia moving in to fill up some of the power vacuum
• re-emergence of Al-Qaeda, more terrorists will be recruited, trained and deployed around the globe
• Saudia government in danger of being overthrown. Other secular or western-support regimes are also in danger of being overthrown.
• US diplomacy is at its lowest, because it has failed in its obligation as an occupying force.
• Clash of civilisations.
• Worst of all, oil prices will go up, 69.234.54.17 10:19, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Seems to me like most of those will happen even if the U.S. doesn't pull out.--Fastfission 21:41, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Ships 1750

i need information on ships in 1750. conditions onboard, punishment onboard etc. i aso need information of how they changed between 1750-1900. please help.

• Are you referring to conditions onboard "Middle Passage" slave ships? If so, here is some quick information:

• Low water rations, which lead to severe dehydration in slaves (symptons include hallucinations, anorexia, low metabolic rates, and extreme difficulty swallowing)

  "Dr. Joseph Cliffe, a physician in the Brazilian trade, claimed that when he was on shipboard, 'the want of water' was so great among the slaves that they were not brought on deck because 'if they were to see water alongside," thirst would drive "a great number of them to jump overboard without considering that it was salt water.' When questioned about the amount of water given the slaves, Cliffe stated that in one case water only in the amount of a 'teacup-full' was given every three days."

-Stanley L. Engerman and Joseph E. Inikori, The Atlantic Slave Trade: Effects on Economies, Societies, and Peoples in Africa, the Americas, and Europe. (Durham, NC: Duke University Press, 1992), 322.

• Low food rations, which lead to severe malnutrition.

• Slaves were huddled together in the dark lower decks of the ship. Diseases like dysentary, yellow fever, smallpox, and typhoid ran rampant in these cramped holds. Men were kept shackled at all times. Brutal punishment would come to any slave who challenged the masters' authority.

• As a result of these horrid conditions, mortality rates during the Middle Passage from the mid-17th century up until the early 19th were always high for slaves and crew alike (who presumably caught the diseases carried by slaves and were only given rations with a slightly higher margin in quantity). Estimates range from 13 and 33 percent for any given journey. During the 19th century, increased "efficency" came as a result of better designed ships which could carry more fresh water. Engerman and Inikori again write:

  "Finally, there is the question of the declining middle passage mortality of slaves, from the first decades of the eighteenth century to the first part of the nineteenth century, from close to 25 percent to around 5 to 10 percent. This decline must have been the result, not just of the construction of specialized ships intended. for the trade, as has been suggested, but of the construction of specialized ships designed to carry more water than their predecessors and very likely to catch more water from rainfall as well."

-Stanley L. Engerman and Joseph E. Inikori, The Atlantic Slave Trade: Effects on Economies, Societies, and Peoples in Africa, the Americas, and Europe. (Durham, NC: Duke University Press, 1992), 330-331.

Additional links:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part1/1narr4.html

http://www.melfisher.org/henriettamarie/middlepassage.htm

Also see the film Amistad for graphic depictions of the conditions onboard slave ships.

Compliments of User:Jrousso

Professor Victor Gold

Can anyone please tell me which organisation brought Victor Gold, then aged 16 (who was later Professor of Chemistry at King's College London University) over to England from Austria in 1938. Thank you.

Born in Vienna, Austria, Victor Gold was educated at the Vienna ‘Realgymnasium’ until the age of 15 when, following the Anschluss, he was sent to the UK by his family.[4] ≈ jossi ≈ t • @ 04:12, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. But did his family sent him to England privately or through some ORGANISATION such as the Kindertransport?

Village Pump

While Wikipedia has a community forum called Village Pump, I can't seem to find the article for Village Pump. Am I just not finding it, or does the article ironically not exist (yet)? Cheers --TG

Moved your question to the right date, as it should be. — QuantumEleven | (talk) 13:52, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

The Village Pump is located here. Technically, articles are only located in the main namespace, so it's not an article, more of a discussion page (actually, it's six discussion pages....) Oskar 14:01, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

If you are looking for a discussion of the village pump (an article on it rather than the space itself), you shouldn't find one. The reason is one of the guidelines: no self-reference. Wikipedia articles are supposed to avoid referring to Wikipedia itself. There is an article called Wikipedia, and it's relatively uncontroversial, but other self-reference violators (Criticisms of Wikipedia and History of Wikipedia) get more heat. Other than those, there should be no articles on ourselves, or at least very few. Geogre 16:10, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

It's acceptable to have articles on Wikimedia (or parts thereof), when those parts are notable. That isn't a violation of Wikipedia:avoid self-reference. Superm401 - Talk 22:40, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps the questioner is referring to village pumps in general, rather than Wikipedia's Village Pump. In which case, village pump (with no capital letters) would be the place to look. Grutness...wha? 07:04, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

correction. I would have thought that was the place to look, but that seems to redirect to WP:VP. We do have the article pump, though, which seems to be largely about rurlar water pumps. Grutness...wha? 07:05, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Historical Speech on Education. "All education is to the glory of God!"

During my school days a teacher once showed me a speech or article a minister wrote. It was once a public exam question. In the article, the minister talked of education and its privatisation and the resulting question of the use, beneficiaries and goal of education. The last sentence of the work was approximately "... All education is to the glory of God!" The minister in question was Irish or Scottish and the work was published in the 1920s. Please bear in mind that my recollection is approximate and I am not sure of anything (perpetually), except the last sentence of the speech. Thank you in advance!

The Jesuits speak of Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam "to the greater glory of God" quoting St. Ignatius Loyola. Maybe this can help. ≈ jossi ≈ t • @ 04:09, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

explanation of cryptic crossword clue

Hi, I'm a novice cryptic crossword fan, and I came across the following clue in the Guardian Weekly. It was no. 4 down and the compiler was Janus: "Nothing cat-man can do for this marsupial". The answer was OPOSSUM. Can anyone explain how this is obtained? The Mad Echidna 17:00, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Here's my theory. The leading O can be taken as a zero, therefore "nothing." T. S. Eliot wrote Old Possum's Book of Practical Cats, so Possum would be the "cat-man." The "can do for" part is assigning equivalence, thus "nothing" + "cat-man" = O + POSSUM = OPOSSUM. And of course, an opossum is a marsupial. --LarryMac 17:26, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

If I saw a clue like that I would just roll up and play dead. StuRat 17:57, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Heh. I love doing cryptics, but my wife has convinced me not to read her the clues and answers; she says they make her head explode. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 18:00, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

For the record, I never would have gotten that if I'd been the one doing the puzzle. Having both the answer and the clue to work from made it a little easier to work out. --LarryMac 18:15, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Would I be Janus, I would roll upside down in my sepulchre (still keeping one face up and one face down) with this clue. I ain't got any better, however. --DLL 21:50, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Just as an aside: I think one would be quite likely to get this clue, without understanding the really obscure part (the cat man reference). You know it's 7 letters, to start with. Almost all cryptics split into a literal and cryptic part; the most likely literal part is either "nothing" or "marsupial". Well, nothing could be things like zero, null, nill, nihil, but I can't think of a seven letter nothing. So let's try marsupial: a seven letter marsupial. I could think of wallaby, kangaroo...no good. I was hoping for a simple alphabetical list, but List_of_Australian_marsupials is arranged taxonomically. Still, the word opossum leaps out and is seven letters so worth looking at. At this point, I'd see the "o" could mean nothing and decide that was good enough and fill it in. (Footnote: I see wallaby actually does have 7 letters. If I'd have noticed, I would have played with it for a while, but decided I couldn't fit it in).Notinasnaid 09:55, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Plans for post-war Europe

Does Wikipedia have a page for Nazi Germany's plans for post-war Europe? Have searched, have not found. The Generalplan Ost page is pretty sparse. Thanks! Jørgen 20:04, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

The Nazi's didn't want there to be a post-war, as far as I can tell. After Europe, it was on to the world, and that kind of makes things take a while...Superm401 - Talk 22:41, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

claudia muzio

My mother informed me years ago she named me after Claudia Muzio. I recently acquired three photographs of Claudia Muzio in costume, 8x10 addressed to my aunt and my godfather, both of whom were opera impressarios, and my mother was an opera coach for many years with the SF Opera Company. I was born in 1932 and my mother claimed she missed opening night at the new opera house.

I'm asking if these photographs are of significant important to any society and/or monetary value. They are originals and are dated 1933.

I'm no expert in opera collectibles, but a quick eBay search turned up one picture of Muzio [5] which was selling for US$4.25 with two bids. Not wildly popular by any means, but there are at least some people interested in it. I suggest you take ask at the local opera house (if there is one) who deals in opera collectibles and talk to them. --George 03:32, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Study on Experts

I saw in the news a few weeks ago someone had done a long-term study of how accurate were the forecasts of experts, asking a number of them questions and tracking over a number of years whether their predictions came to pass. Does anyone have a citation to this study?

If you can provide a link to a related news article (and more importantly, the name of the corresponding author), I could probably track it down quite easily. It's always bothered me how news stories on published research rarely provide a reference to the publication. --inks^T 21:30, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

March 20

Parliamentary sovereignty in Australia.

Hi, I am a first time user of this space, so I am not sure I am in the right place.

My question is: Can it be said that Parliamentary sovereignty exists in Australia? Is Parliament the ultimate law making body?

Thankyou. Northcoastbaby.

The Commonwealth of Australia is a constitutional monarchy. ≈ jossi ≈ t • @ 04:06, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Lifehouse's song "You and Me"

I was watching an episode of Cold Case with my mom. At the end of the episode, "You and Me" by Lifehouse was played. My mom says that at the end of every episode, a song that was released and/or made during the time that the mystery took place is played. The mystery for that episode took place some time during the 1990s! I recently searched various Lifehouse Websites and I couldn't get any information about when the song was made. The Wikipedia says that the song was produced in 2002. When was it made?

I am eminently confident that the Wikipedia entry is correct in noting that the song was produced in '02 and released as a single in '05. Perhaps this website, which purports to enumerate the musical selections for each episode, may be of assistance to you in ascertaining whether, in fact, concomitant to the end of each episode is music contemporary to the resolved crime (although I should note that the site doesn't seem to list the song). Joe 04:14, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

lost city

I am trying to find the name of a city that no longer exists that I saw pictures of recently. I believe the city was somewhere in asia and had apartments seemingly stacked very high on eachother loosely like shoeboxes. I'd like to know more about the city but can't find information about it anywhere. I'm pretty sure the name started with a C and was something like Carrageena (?) Thank you for any information you can provide, Charlotte

Have you checked at Lost city? Are you thinking of the Forbidden City, by chance? The Jade Knight 04:00, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Is it Angkor Wat, Cambodia? --Vsion 04:37, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Carthage? In Spanish, the name "Carthage" became Cartagena, which is still there. -- Mwalcoff 05:26, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Çatalhöyük (also spelled Catal Huyuk and other various ways) was one of the world's first cities. It was in whats now Turkey and had stacked apartments. See this site for an artists image of the buildings. You can also search Google image for "Catal Huyuk" and find others.--Bkwillwm 05:42, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

rights

what right are you given by law in a civil case that protects you personal information
Tell in which countrySuraj vas 09:51, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

jugalbandhi

I need definition of the work jugalbandhi. email removed

It's not in the OED. Do you know what language it is? The Jade Knight 07:25, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

According to the article about Mangalampalli Balamuralikrishna, it's a kind of jam session between two musicians in Indian music. --Canley 07:31, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

I am sure its in Hindi ciz i am an Indian.Suraj vas 09:49, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Current economic sanctions

is there a list of the current economic trade sanctions currently enforced by the UN and US?--orphan frequently 06:16, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

history of production.

Hello Could someone help me with the proper words for the modes of production, manually production, manufacturing and mere facturing.

Thanks Christian Blom