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April 16

Comander in chief

Can anyone tell me how the title "Comander in Chief" came about. I know what the Comander in chief is but I want to know the origin of the title. Looks to me like "Comander and Chief" would be more descriptive. Thanks wsc

George Washington was titled "General and Commander in Chief" during the Revolutionary War. See Commander in Chief for more. Erik the Rude 01:01, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Another context where a similar construction appears is at law--us lawyers write the "case in chief," which means the case being discussed itself, to distinguish from the cases that are being discussed as precedent to make some point. So if the phrase follows the same form (speculating here) it could mean the "commander of all", "the COMMANDER HIMSELF", as opposed to the other, lesser commanders. --Fuhghettaboutit 01:28, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

idioms wanted

In English we call an easy job "a piece of cake", and the Japanese call it some "tea-time snack" (御茶の子, ocha'noko), are there similar idioms in other languages?--K.C. Tang 09:23, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

In Czech we call it "a toy" (hračka), because even a child would be able to do such a job. Daniel Šebesta (talk • contribs) 09:31, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

but any food-related ones?--K.C. Tang

No, not in Czech... In German, "children's game" (ein Kinderspiel) is used, but I can't think of any suitable idiom related to food in German either. Daniel Šebesta (talk • contribs) 09:50, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

btw, the Chinese call an "easy job" or something "no big deal" pediatrics(小兒科).--K.C. Tang 10:02, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

In German you could say "This job is easier than stealing the lollipop of a baby." Attention: It is used to describe something illicit in a cocky way.

The Spanish equivalent is pan comido or "eaten bread." The Dictionary of the Royal Spanish Academy, the official reference for the Spanish language, limits the definition of this idiom to "to be very easy to obtain." I am not sure whether it can apply to something very easy to do, as well, like the English "piece of cake."--El aprendelenguas 12:52, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

does "eaten bread" mean bread that has been consumed by one? how is it associated to "something very easy to obtain"... ?_?--K.C. Tang 14:06, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, if somebody has already eaten the bread, I suppose it is easy to obtain because it is in the person's stomach. :) Nevertheless, it does not do much good to debate the logic behind an idiom. Consider the previously mentioned "a piece of cake." What is it about a piece of cake that is related to an easy job? Actually, this English idiom comes from mid-19th century African-American dance contests, according to Scholastic's Dictionary of Idioms. However, very few people who use this idiom really know how it came to mean what it means now. Similarly, there could be a reason why "eaten bread" is so easy to obtain, but any present sense of such a reason no longer exists.--El aprendelenguas 14:51, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

I'd guess it's similar to "It's a done deal" -- you haven't actually done it yet, but you know for a fact that it will be, and it's so certain you can consider it done. So, you haven't eaten the bread yet, but it's so certain that you will that you can consider it eaten. --Zeborah 03:45, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

In somewhat slang dutch, something easy can be called "Appeltje-Eitje" (Apple and Egg) which i would think comes from the proverb "Voor een appel en een ei" ("For an appel and an egg", which refers to buying something cheap) SanderJK 18:53, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

"Lätt som en plätt" in Swedish (or Norwegian if you switch the 'ä's for 'e's). "Easy as a plätt". Plättar (plural) being scandinavian mini-pancakes (see Pancake). A funny one is the Russian "Проще пареной репы" - easy as a stewed turnip. --BluePlatypus 07:51, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Finnish calls it "helppo nakki", literally "an easy Vienna sausage". So there you have a food-related idiom. JIP | Talk 09:33, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

In Serbian, it's "prosto k'o pasulj" ("simple as beans"). Duja 16:16, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

The other food-related idiom in English besides "It's a piece of cake" is "It's easy as pie" (although anyone who's ever made a piecrust from scratch will tell you it isn't easy at all!). Angr (talk • contribs) 16:46, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Syriac Script

Hi,

Have recently discovered the origin of my name as Syriac. Is it possible to get a spelling of it in Syriac script. I have looked at the scripts but have been unable to put it together. My name is Cephas.

How is that pronounced? -LambaJan 17:36, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

The name Cephas is a Greek (Κηφας Kēphas) rendition (via Latin) of the Aramaic name Kêfā, which means rock. Old Aramaic and Jewish Aramaic are written using the Hebrew alphabet (or Aramaic alphabet) — כיפא. Syriac is a dialect (or dialect group) of Aramaic. In the Syriac alphabet, the name is written ܟܐܦܐ. Of course, the name is that of Saint Peter — Πετρος Petros also means 'rock'. — Gareth Hughes 19:19, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

a kind of vehicle

Hi,I have two questions:

• 1.I used to see a kind of vehicle that is driven on the swampland with a big fan(or wheel?) and the driver sits on a higher seat.
• 2.I turn on the computer and get on the web, can I say this way? If someone likes to be on web,how do I put it?

Thank you for your help.Bye.------- Sabrina, April 16 2006

1. Are you thinking of an Air boat?

2. Netophile??? --Eivind^t@c 14:34, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Seems to me that 'internet' is becoming more common, in my region anyway (original research), but if you put it that way ('web') it will definately be understood. -LambaJan 17:35, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

N...(Hungarian)

Hi, can anyone tell me what does Nevesek mean? I don't know in what language though,:| and also 'Nevesis', what do those things mean, if anything at all? and also, it can be 'Erno Nevesek'. thanx. :D --Cosmic girl 14:43, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

If you could provide some context, it might be easier to guess. By googling, I have found the word on numerous Hungarian sites but have no idea what it means. Daniel Šebesta (talk • contribs) 15:18, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

hu/WP sez "A Wikipédiában még nincs pontosan ilyen című szócikk. Készíts Nevesek című szócikket!" (sth like 'not found - create article ?'. It is really hungarian, but even hu/WK ignores it. Try en/WP hungarian people : [ [Category:User_hu]], they are 155. --DLL 19:29, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

"Nevesek" is Hungarian, an inflection of the word "neves", meaning "reknowned" or "noted". I don't think "nevesis" is a correct word though. Typo? --BluePlatypus 07:17, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

BluePlatypus is correct on both counts. However, the original question was almost certainly about "Erno Nemecsek" (or "Ernő Nemecsek", if you can handle Hungarian accents correctly). Erno Nemecsek is the protagonist of a very famous Hungarian novel, A Pál utcai fiúk (The Paul Street Boys). The word "Nemecsek" does not mean anything, however. --Ashenai 23:03, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Desprite what Ashenai has written, could it be that "Nemecsek" does mean something? I don't know too much about Hungarian pronunciation, but still it sounds to me like the Czech word "Němeček," a diminutive of the word "Němec" (German (man)). Could the name be some kind of a loanword? Daniel Šebesta (talk • contribs) 23:15, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Nope. The word "nemecsek" does not mean anything in Hungarian. It could certainly mean something in Czech, I have no idea. And of course it's quite possible that Ferenc Molnár, the author of The Paul Street Boys, chose the name Nemecsek because of its Czech meaning. I wouldn't know. --Ashenai 23:23, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for the answer! Daniel Šebesta (talk • contribs) 23:31, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Sounds likely to me, the pronunciation would be pretty close. (Hungarian "cs" is pronounced like the Czech "č", IPA:/ʧ/). BTW, the Hungarian word for "German" is "német", which is borrowed from the Slavic. "Német"/"Németh"/"Németi" are Hungarian surnames. --BluePlatypus 04:45, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanx for your answers guys... hey, is Neves a Hungarian lastname by any chance? and also, is Hungarian a germanic language? or a slavic one?. --Cosmic girl 01:12, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Neither. It belongs to the Finno-Ugric family of languages. JackofOz 02:44, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Some UFO people think that aliens speak a "higher form of Hungarian". Which just confirms what their central European neighbors have suspected for centuries: Magyars are from outer space. ;) --BluePlatypus 05:29, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

No, I don't think it is used as a name. Wouldn't be a common one anyway. BTW, the Hungarian "s" is pronounced like "sh" in "sheep", whereas "sz" is pronounced like "s" in "sleep". (And just to make things more confusing, Polish does it the other way around). Odd fact: Hungarians are the only ones in the western world to put family name first; e.g. "Szabó István" would be called "István Szabó" in English, Szabó being the family name. --BluePlatypus 05:09, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

interesting... so...'Nevesh' (lol) is a lastname...well, not Nevesh,but Neves since I believe it's supposed to be in spanish... does anyone know the origin of this lastname and what language is it in? :| now I'm confused... since, this lastname, belongs to a person which looks of latin american ancestry to me, but not so much, more like a mix of caucasian and latin american races, but anyway, the point is that, this guy likes to call himself as a nickname 'erno neveseck'...so I supose he must be of hungarian ancestry if he knows about the language and the novel... but also, the lastname could be spanish or even mexican, who knows...the world is full of weird lastnames, lol.--Cosmic girl 18:49, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Offhand I'd say it seems more likely Hispanic* than Hungarian, since it seems more common among the former. From that, I'd guess it could perhaps be related to the name "Nieves". (*'Hispania' is rather similar to 'ispán', a Hung. word for military leader. From this, the medieval chronicler Simon of Keza made up a fantastic story of how the Hungarians conquered the Iberian peninsula. - False etymologies can be quite misleading! :)) --BluePlatypus 15:13, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

LOL! awesome... sorry 4 the nonsense but I like this guy...:P, and I found out that he uses the nickname Ernõ Neveseck because of 'a movie' according to him, and Nevesis is because of a monster in the Resident Evil videogame. :P.--Cosmic girl 20:00, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Yah

Over the last few months, people on the net have started writing 'yah' rather than yes. Do they do this when speaking, or is is just a written form? And why (in the name of all that is good and holy) would anyone say or write such a thing? Henry^Flower 14:59, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

It seems to be a variant of "yeah," which is indeed used in speech. English speakers sometimes get lazy when they speak, and the /s/ phoneme of the word yes seems to take too much work to articulate. In its place they use a weak /h/. A similar exchange occurs in some dialects of Spanish, where certain s's that close a syllable—especially those that close an entire word—are replaced with an h-like aspiration. Another pronunciation I have heard of the 'yah' mentioned in the question is /ja:/, which seems to be a more affirmative-sounding version of "yeah." Note that many people consider the reply "yeah" or any variant of "yeah" disrespect in formal conversation or as a reply to someone who ought to be addressed as "sir" or "ma'am."--El aprendelenguas 15:40, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

I often say [jʌː] (which I spell yuh in written converstion) — but usually not to professors or at job interviews. —Keenan Pepper 17:06, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Isn't this also a Minnesota/Michigan kind of thing? Apparently! "Use of German/Scandinavian "ja", pronounced as either /jaː/ or /jæː/, as an affirmative filler or emphatic; Standard U.S. English "yes" is used in formal settings to answer questions and to start an explanation." --Rueckk 18:10, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

It could also be derived from the German "ja" pronounced like "ya" would be to an English speaker. -LittleBrother (to lazy to log in or put times)

Webster's dictionary says that "yeah" was originally a cross between "yes" and "ja", and that "yes" originally came from "yea".--The ikiroid (talk parler hablar paroli 说 話し parlar) 02:16, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

My personal experience, which is actually somewhat extensive, is that most people who use "yah" are (or at least were, when the term began to promulgate the 'net) unaware of the more correct spelling "yeah", and were attempting to write the commonly spoken "yeah". It is not a recent phenomenon, though it may be gaining popularity as an internet-specific spelling, similar, perhaps, to "teh". The Jade Knight 07:22, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

April 17

name-verb

just my geeky fancy again... i can only think of pasteurize, burke and boycott... any thoughts, guys?--K.C. Tang 02:17, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

List of eponyms contains all the nouns and verbs. Tintin (talk) 02:36, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

woo... but most of them are nouns... it contains bowdlerize, which i forgot, but it has no boycott nor burke...--K.C. Tang 02:53, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

It does have Boycott, between Bougainville and Boyle. Tintin (talk) 03:04, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

my bad...must've skipped th line:P --K.C. Tang 03:39, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

You forgot hoover, and this probably doesn't count but at MOP everyone used cauchy as a verb meaning "apply the Cauchy-Schwarz inequality". —Keenan Pepper 04:01, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Let's see: To Democritize, to Gerrymander...Loomis51 06:10, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

To Mirandize, to Jones, to Martinize, to Guillotine, to Mesmerize. Loomis51 16:27, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Lynch---(82.138.214.1 17:06, 17 April 2006 (UTC))

To macadamize. --ByeByeBaby 23:37, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

"Alito must avoid being 'Borked'" says the San Francisco Chronicle. -- Mwalcoff 00:19, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Also see Fisking, which means "To refute erroneous comments, such as those frequently made by Robert Fisk." -- Mwalcoff 00:20, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Also "to Sandwich", as in the sentence "A hamburger is sandwiched between two halves of a bun" or much more broadly, "I was sitting on a plane, sandwiched between two crying babies". Also, and I hesitate to introduce this one, but I have heard it used..."to Lewinsky". I won't bother to define that one! ;) Loomis51 00:34, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Standard American English

1. Will you loan me your car?
2. Will you lend me your car?

Which verb is correct? Also, is the correct one the more common one?Patchouli 14:47, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

They are apparently interchangeable for this usage; however I believe that most people, if they make a distinction, use loan more often for money and lend for other goods, so would more often use lend in the cited example. Loan, however, is improper in figurative usage. As stated here:

Usage Note: The verb loan is well established in American usage and cannot be considered incorrect. The frequent objections to the form by American grammarians may have originated from a provincial deference to British critics, who long ago labeled the usage a typical Americanism. Loan is, however, used to describe only physical transactions, as of money or goods; for figurative transactions, lend is correct: Distance lends enchantment. The allusions lend the work a classical tone.

--Fuhghettaboutit 15:05, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree, and so does Merriam-Webster's Concise Dictionary of English Usage. More traditional books discourage the use of loan as a verb, but in all physical senses, it now works as a synonym for lend.--El aprendelenguas 18:36, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

To me, "lend" also sounds like it should be used with money. I would say, "Will you let me borrow your car?" or simply "May I borrow your car?" -- Mwalcoff 00:15, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Agree with Mwalcoff. "Lend" is better than "loan", but "borrow", or even "use", is best. I'd say "Can I [please] borrow your car?" Perhaps not the best usage, but the most natural. a The Jade Knight 07:18, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

I live in Ireland and to me while lend would not be wrong loan sounds far better, I'd say "will you loan me your car"

opporunity/community

I recently watched an episode of the Colber' Repor' and a part of it put me in mind of how many Americans pronounce "opportunity" and, say, "community." Is there any truth to the notion of "opportunity" pronounced as "ah-puh-turnDee", where the 'rnDi:' part is articulated with one's tongue in retroflex position (as in 'morning' or 'party'), plus being a nasalized flap. As to the "community" word, I think it's pronounced as "cuh-myoo-uhrnDy". The sound here is the same: retroflexed nasalized flap. Is it true? Help, help. --Dennis Valeev 17:25, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean. Is it [αpɚtynɪDi]? and [kəmjɝɹnɪDi]? (the y is because of (u) fronting, which is ubiquituous after coronals. Are you referring to some kind of /r/ insertion? If so I have never heard it there.

[ɒpətu:ɪɳi:] and [kəmjuɪɳi:], it can also be interpreted as [ɒpɚtu:ɪɽi:], where the "ɽ" sound is nasalized (as in the winter/winner case). I mean, it's casual speech, and quite ubiquitous. If you know how the vast majority of Americans pronounce it, I would love to see the transcription. --Dennis Valeev 22:05, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm no linguist, but to me, "ah-puh-turn-dee" sounds like someone speaking with a very exaggerated rural drawl, or someone trying to make fun of country folk. It's certainly not how most Americans would say it. They would say it "ah-pur-TOO-ni-tee," possibly with schwas in the second and fourth syllables. I've never heard anything like "cuh-myoo-uhrnDy." Everyone I know would say "cuh-MYOO-ni-tee." -- Mwalcoff 04:16, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm not talking about carefully articulated pronunciation here, what with the large variety of accents, it'd be indeed better for one to speak clearly and consistently, I'm talking about casual and fast speech. Consider, for example, the word "wanted", in well-articulated speech you would pronounce it as [wɒntɪd], but when it comes to casual speech you may say it as follows: [wɒɾ̃ɪd] (the "ɾ̃" part is just as in the wi(nt)er/wi(nn)er case). I mean, I'm interested in pronouncing the rest of those words: the "-nity" part. How am I to do that? It sounds like [nɪɾ̃i:] to me. Do I make sense here at all? Thank you. --Dennis Valeev 07:52, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Please, answer me. One of those words is Christianity. The '-ity' part is clearly related to the '-ty' part in "party". I mean, it's quite an interesting phonological phenomenon, isn't it? Even though there's no "r" in the "anity" part, "t" allophone is realized as a retroflex flap. How come? :) --Dennis Valeev 09:00, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Are you asking about flapping? Angr (talk • contribs) 09:13, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, yeah, but there are two types of the flapping process: the first one being realized with your tongue simply striking the roof of your mouth (alveolar ridge), and the second one with your tongue _retracted_ behind the alveolar ridge and only then being moved forward so that it hits the alveolar ridge. Let's call the first one "tap" (you tap the alveolar ridge with the tip of your tongue) and the second one "flap" (which involves a retraction and hitting). But! There's that "but" moment, you know. Whenever you articulate the "flap" ("party", "forty", but not butter, for example) you involuntarily articulate the "retroflex approximant", that is "arr". So, my question is this: how is this possible that in such words as christianity and opportunity, where there's no r's in the "-nity" part, the t allophone is realized as a flap. I also assume that the "n" here is the nasalized tap, so that you get your tongue in retroflexed position to then articulate the "flappy" part. I dunno if that makes a lotta sense to you, but it does to me. I'm flabbergasted and want to clarify the matter. What about "maternity" or "paternity"? How these words are pronounced keeping in mind my previous rants? --Dennis Valeev 09:57, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

I come from SW England and, unlike most British people, I never pronounce t or d as dentals. I pronounce them in the same place as k and g - ie alveolar. But I never pronounce the r before a consonant. Jameswilson 23:01, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

I am from Colorado and pronounce it /Qp@`tunI4i/ in casual speech, and never rhymes with "paternity" which would be /p@t@`nI4i/. Also, in response to the other guy's comment, k and g are velars, not alveolars, and are never at the same point of articulation as t or d, but your point still stands, t and d are not dentals in English. Linguofreak 21:23, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Wild thought, I don't think it very likely: /u/ in American dialects is often fronted to [}] or [y]. This could then lower to [2], which is often heard by Americans as /@`/. But I've never heard of American fronted /u/ being lowered. Linguofreak 21:28, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Can & Could

Hi how are u? Please tell me what's the different between them with examples? Thankyou

I'm very well. "Can" is the present tense, "could" is the past: Today I can play tennis; Yesterday I could play tennis. They can also be used in conditionals: first conditional- I can kiss you if you kiss me; second conditional- I could kiss you if you kissed me. (Use of the first conditional implies that I think you are likely to kiss me; use of the second implies that I think you are less likely to kiss me). Henry^Flower 20:07, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Note also that could is often paired with the auxiliary verb have to form a more emphatic past tense: "I could have gone to the party, but you didn't invite me." In addition, can cannot be coupled with an auxiliary verb.--El aprendelenguas 20:14, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

My bad; this seems to be more like a conditional tense than like a past tense. Nevertheless, notice that could often goes with the auxiliary have.--El aprendelenguas 20:20, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

It's both- it's a past conditional. Henry^Flower 20:43, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

In the past tense I always say "could have," whether conditional or not (most often contracted to "coulda") Thus, "I coulda played tennis yesterday," which can mean either "I was able to play tennis yesterday," (but didn't), or with a following if clause "I would have been able to play tennsis yesterday if...". I wouldn't use "I could have" with something I had actually done. In otherwords "I could have..." means I was able to do something but didn't, whereas "I was able to..." means I was able to do something and did. Bare "could" is almost always a present conditional, e.g. "I could do that if..." or a request "could you get that off the shelf for me?" Can is more a indicator of absolute present possibility, "I can do that," "Can you see it?" The future is almost always "will be able," e.g. "I'll be able to do that tommorow," but "can" may also work in some circumstances "I can do that tommorow." (I just tend to prefer "will be able"). Linguofreak 21:00, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

0n0matopeia

Are "rumbles and grumbles" examples of onomatopeia?

The sentence reads---"My stomach rumbles, grumbles and turns"

Thank you for your assistance

Hmmm hard to say. Example of onomatopeias would be kerplunk, meow, ruff (a dog's bark), clang, hiss, meow, moo, quack, etc.—words that sound like the thing they describe. I'm not sure that grumble and rumble sound like grumbing and rumbling. Err, on second thought, grumble (but not rumble) is listed on Wikipedia's article on onomatopeias. Still they don't seem to fit. --Fuhghettaboutit 23:30, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

They sound like onomatopoeia to me. According to my Chambers etymology dictionary, rumble is "of uncertain origin", but it's probably from the same root as rumor and therefore not a strict onomatopoeia. Grumble, on the other hand, could indeed be onomatopoetic in origin. —Keenan Pepper 03:27, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Random tidbit: grumble is Cockney rhyming slang for cunt (via grumble and grunt). —Keenan Pepper 03:41, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

I believe these are referred to as 'mimetics', which are indeed distinct from onomatopoeia. The general idea is that through learning (they are not as natural as the direct borrowing of sounds like with onomatopoeia) native speakers will come to associate certain sounds or sound clusters with a particular 'feeling' or state. An example in English: words that start with sl/sm "smoosh", "slog", "sludge", etc. If somewhere were to make up the new word 'sloog' and it was in the right context you'd have a good chance of guessing that it had to do with squishy noises. As far as I know, Korean has the most mimetics of any language, and vowel patterning in Korean as well as the 3-way contrasts in consonants let you capture alot of very intricate differences. An example: hohoho makes us think of a hearty Santa Claus laugh, hahaha is a normal laugh, and heeheehee is a higher pitched feminine laugh. It's like that in Korean except they have a mimetic word for EVERYTHING ('tears continually coming down the face', 'something spinning fast in a wide circle',). I don't know if wikipedia has an article for this or not, but here is the Japanese one (the Japanese language is probably second in usage of mimetics after Korean): Japanese sound symbolism --Zippyt 14:55, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

American English

Is it okay to say "I'm going shopping" instead of "I'm going to shop?"Patchouli 23:51, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

They may mean two different things. The first is present progressive, which generally refers to something happening right now. It can be used to talk about the future if you mention a specific time ("I'm going shopping tomorrow."). The second uses "going to" plus verb, which always refers to the future.

If you say "I'm going shopping" with no specific time mentioned, you mean you are on your way now. If you say, "I'm going to shop," it means you plan to do so in the future. We'd probably say "I'm going to go shopping."

I don't think this is specific to American English. -- Mwalcoff 00:12, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

I think it may be rather specific to American English inasmuch as ‘I’m going to shop’ sounds quite foreign to this Briton. Specifically, ”I’m going to shop tomorrow afternoon’, would suggest that I planned to report that time of that day to the police. (Although ‘I plan to report tomorrow afternoon to the police’ would be different again.) —Ian Spackman 11:54, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

It sound quite foreign to this American, as well. I can think of very specific instances when one might say "I'm going to shop," -- e.g. "Why are you going to IKEA?"; "I am going to shop." The implication perhaps being that I am not planning on buying anything, I am simply going to look around. I think that the average American would say "I'm going shopping." --LarryMac 14:48, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

I think it depends on when you plan on going shopping. If you say, "I'm going shopping for a high-def TV," you're probably doing so in the very near future. But if you say. "OK, I've decided. I'm going to shop for a high-def TV," that means you probably aren't going right away. Of course, you're far more likely to say, "I'm going to buy a high-def TV." -- Mwalcoff 23:56, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

As a Coloradan, I would never say "I'm going to shop." To refer to the future I'd say "I'm going to go shopping." Linguofreak 20:55, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

April 18

To kill a Mockingbird

How many copies of to kill a mockingbird have been sold?

Found this on amazon.com: From the Publisher. Featuring a new introduction by the author, this specially packaged, popularly priced hardcover edition of an American classic (with more than 30 million copies sold) celebrates the 35th anniversary of its original publication. If you need a more exact number, I'd suggest weeding through these google results. --Andrew c 22:05, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

The French for a tip?

What is the french for a tip? ( a waste disposal/ land fill site)

Our Landfill article, on the bottom left - just hover a mouse pointer over the word french, the link shows in the status bar - says "Décharge" ; and I approve that statement. --DLL 17:17, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Polyglots

What is the record for the most languages that a person has ever learnt (to fluency or other), and how/why did they get that way? What languages did the person know? Thanks. Daniel (☎) 10:15, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

there is List of noted polyglots - but learning languages is no stamp-collecting...--K.C. Tang 10:36, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, I did find that after asking. I should have checked first. It's amazing how quick this thing works! Daniel (☎) 11:24, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, we all work 24/7 round here. Cheers. JackofOz 11:52, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Which language should I choose?

I want to pick up a new language to make myself more competitive, but I don't know just which one I should choose. (P.S. All I know now is English and Chinese.) Many thanks. --218.102.181.194 10:30, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Competitive in what field? Angr (talk • contribs) 10:59, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

one thing is certain: you are not a language geek. A language geek never learns a language because he wants to be more "competitive". Why, a local career consultant in your district can help you.--K.C. Tang 11:10, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Next to English, French is an official language in more countries than any othe language. However, its overall global speakership is not among the highest, and it is no longer considered a commerce language, though it is still one of the official languages of the UN, as well as the International Olympic Committee. Knowing the language of whatever country or state you are in or visit most would also be considered highly advantageous. In most of the United States, Spanish is considered a particularly important second language. The Jade Knight 06:58, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

French Military words in English

I'm wondering if anyone can tell me why so many relatively recent borrowings (the past century or two...not going back to the Norman Conquest) of French terms into the English language are so disproportionately related to military and/or international relations matters.

I'm thinking of words like: camouflage, sabotage, rendez-vous, attaché, envoy, espionage, coup, reconnaisance, surveillance etc...

If any of you could come up with more that would be great too (sounds like a job for KC!). Still, I'm also wondering why this is the case. Loomis51 11:13, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Firstly, I don't think that it is really so disproportionate, it's just that these happen to sound more French. The less military words were probably used more amongst the population as a whole (rather than military words being used mainly by Norman soldiers) which contributed to their anglicisation.

Also, most of the Normans going into England at that time would have been soldiers, so that also contributes to the imbalance (if there is one).

I don't know if the above (my answer, not your question) makes much sense (I just made up something that sounds plausible to myself), but it does make sense.

The reason that they were borrowed in the last century or two is because many of those concepts were not put into wide, sophisticated use until the last century or two. And French was the Lingua Franca of much of the world until the 1850's or so, when German displaced it, so it's logical that the name of such concepts would come from French. And here's two more words to add: coup d'êtat & avant garde.--The ikiroid (talk parler hablar paroli 说 話し parlar) 11:48, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

German never became a lingua franca for much of the world. I'd say French was the international language par excellence until about World War I, when it started to be replaced by English. Angr (talk • contribs) 12:04, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

for some time German was the lingua franca among the scientists... right?--K.C. Tang 13:21, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, in some sciences probably yes, but I don't think it was ever a lingua franca of commerce and diplomacy the way French used to be and English is now. Angr (talk • contribs) 13:47, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

How about caisson? --LarryMac 14:42, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Many of our older military words came from Norman (a close relative of French), as well. Examples:

• War & Warrior
• Cavalry (compare this to modern Jersey Norman C'valyi, for knight)
• Castle
• Battle
• Siege
• Conquer
• Soldier
• Lance

…and the list goes on. English is just not a very innovative language when it comes to war. The Jade Knight 07:08, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Information you have on how two words are combined to create another meaning

Dear Sir / Madam,

Allow me to congratulate you on a very well executed website, well done.

The quest that led me to your site is to find out how two words can be combined to create an interpretaion that falls in the middle of the other word meanings. For example on the page that translates French to English derivates, I looked up the word "optimism", which then had a Wikipedia prompt box which offered more information page.

On investigation it gave the example of exactly what I was looking for eg. Pessimism + Optimism = Hope. Unfortunately, this was the only example of such a word construction and this is exactly what I require.

I have viewed your site extensively but feel through my in experience of examining words finding the correct area is a little out of my reach.

Oh yeah sorry for sending previous email I thought it would only save the letter and not send it.

Thank you very much

What are you actually looking for? Can you clarify the text above? I'm afraid that I had a hard time following it. What do you mean by 'a page which translates French to English derivates'?

By the way, these pages are not answered by a single person, so your salutation sounds rather strange.

Daniel (☎) 15:25, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Check out portmanteau words.Patchouli 15:21, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

With a little thought I can come up with a few basic examples:

• funny = strange + interesting
• bravado = bravery + confidence + possibly stupidity
• leap = combined jump and run

Though these could be argued, and the meaning isn't really as simple as that. You could as easily argue that "hope" doesn't really mean pessimism + optimism, but that doesn't really help you.  freshgavinΓΛĿЌ  06:09, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Thank you Freshgavin for your feed back, thats the sort of thing that I am trying to find out.

You gave an example of the possiblity that bravery+confidence+stupidity (arguably) = bravery. Is there somewhere on your site a section that shows just that, eg. 1 word+2nd word=3rd word. Im not sure if you would call this the construction of one word from two or more words.

Thanks again and I lookforward to hearing from you soon

Fetch = go, get and bring back. I dont know if there is a world to describe that type of word though. Jameswilson 23:05, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

April 19

Turkish

hey guys, what's the literal meaning of işte bunu seviyorum? (for the i'm lovin' it article)--K.C. Tang 06:05, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

the verb 'to change' in German

I know that there are at least two words for 'to change' in German, ändern and wechseln. But what is the difference between them? Can you give examples of when each would be used? Many thanks. Richardrj 09:14, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm not a native speaker, but my impression has always been ändern means to change the property of something in the sense of "alter", while wechseln is change in the sense of "exchange" or "replace". To change tires on your car is die Reifen wechseln, but to change your mind is die Meinung ändern. Angr (talk • contribs) 09:20, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

I am a native speaker, and I agree. Another meaning of to change I can think of is the transitive form of umziehen, meaning to change clothes.

Thinking of it, is there a special word for this kind of verb? It's only used like ich ziehe mich um, i.e. it takes an object, but subject and object are always identical. Although it's grammatically transitive, it's effectively intransitive. —da Pete (ノート) 17:13, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

You mean Reflexive? --BluePlatypus 17:31, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

The separable preverb um is used with several verbs when some sort of change is implied, not just sich umziehen. There's also umsteigen "to change trains/buses/planes, etc.", intransitive umziehen "to move house (i.e. change residences)", umbuchen "to change one's reservations", umpflanzen "to transplant", umschalten "to change channels etc.", umstellen "to rearrange", umtauschen "to exchange", etc. Angr (talk • contribs) 18:41, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

"Ändern" means changing by developping. You change your opinion, because you enlarge your knowledge. You change your outfit because you get older. - There is a progress which changes conditions. "Wechseln" means changing by putting something at the place of something else. You change your shoes because the old ones are wet. There is no development, but the new situatuon needs a new solution. - There are always two or more things which are exchanged.

austauschen - wechseln umgestalten, weiterentwickeln - ändern

first name - last name?

Hi there,

Imagine I, clearly a western person, need to write a letter to 'Ahmed Ali Ahmed': "Dear Mr...?? Could somebody tell me which part of this name would be the first name, and which part the surname?

Thank you in advance, Jeannine.

see Arabic name--K.C. Tang 15:30, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Question about Russian

Why does Russian have two words for the number one? One is "odin" and one is "raz". What is their difference? JIP | Talk 09:30, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm afraid I can't help you very much exactly about Russian, but explaining a similar thing in Czech (also a Slavic language) could help you. In Czech, we have two words for the number 1, too—"jedna" and "raz." If you want to say e.g. 1 + 2, you would always use "jedna," while if you just want to say a sequence of numbers like 1, 2, 3, 4, etc., you can start with either "jedna" or "raz." Anyway, "raz" sounds a bit obsolete to me and is not used very widely by younger people. In Russian the difference between the two words might or might not be similar. Daniel Šebesta (talk • contribs) 16:37, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

As a matter of fact, in conversational speech raz is just a short way of saying odin raz, meaning "one time, once". In this sense raz is a noun, while odin is a numeral. You can use the word "raz" for counting (raz, dva, tri→"one, two, three"), but you can also use odin: odin, dva, tri—both ways are correct, although the latter sounds a bit more formal. When you need an actual numeral, however, you can only use the word "odin"; e.g., when saying "1+2=3", you can only use odin. Hope this helps.—Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) • (yo?); 17:05, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Note that English also has multiple words for low numbers:

• "One apple", "once", "an apple", "a single apple", "a solitary apple", "a unitary apple", "unary", "first/1st", "primary/main", "methyl"

• "Two times", "twofold", "twice", "double", "duo", "dual", "second/2nd", "secondary", "pair", "couple", "couplet", "binary", "stereo", "ethyl"

• "Three times", "triple", "threefold", "thrice", "third/3rd", "tertiary", "trio", "propyl"

• "Four times", "fourfold", "fourth/4th", "quadruple", "quad", "quartet", "butyl"

Some are variations on the same root word, but not all.

StuRat 19:23, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

For non-slavs, Russian has some seemingly weird and counter-intuitive rules about numbers.

• "One" comes in three gender forms - masculine (один), feminine (одна), and neuter (одно). "Two" comes in two forms - masculine/neuter (два) and feminine (две). "Three" and upwards come in only one form for all genders.
• Then there's the case endings of things that have numbers. In "one table" (один стол), table (стол) is in the nominative case. Genitive singular is used for "two tables" (два стола), "three tables" (три стола) or "four tables" (четыре стола). Genitive plural is used for "five tables" (пять столов) or more. So, it's like "four of a table" but "five of tables". JackofOz 22:42, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

"raz" basically means "time" as in "one time". To say "one more time" you say "yeshcho raz". I'm surprised Oz didn't mention the totally screwed up rules regarding the word "year". One year is "adin god", two years is "dva goda", but for some numbers, I forget which ones, the word for years changes completely to "lyet". Don't ask me why. Loomis51 01:02, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, that happens with people's ages. Russians don't say "I am xxx years old", but use an indirect construction and a form of the word "lyeto" meaning "summer". They typically say "Mnye xxx lyet", meaning "To me xxx summers". They have to remember to decline lyeto appropriately, depending on whether the age ends with the digit 1 (lyeto), or 2 through 4 (lyeta), or 5 through 0 (lyet). Maybe that's why colloquially they often leave the summers/lyet out and say just "To me xxx" (just as we say "I am 21" rather than "I am 21 years of age" or "I am 21 years old"). JackofOz 01:53, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Not only do they have to keep in mind how to inflect the "lyeto" word, but also remember that if a person is 1 through 4 years old then you have to use an entirely different word to name her age, to wit, год(а) (god(a)): "mne 1 (21, 31, 41) god", "emu 2 (3,4; 22,23,24; 31,...) goda", as opposed to English version of forming plurals: "the baby is one year old", and then "the baby is two years old" and "the guy is twenty-one years old" (whereas in Russian you say "parnyu 21 god", that is "the guy is twenty-(one year) old"; well, it's possible to omit plurality in English, but that's a whole nother story). --Dennis Valeev 10:00, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

That is: odin god, dva goda, tri goda, chetire goda, pyat' let, shest' let, sem' let, vosem' let, devyat' let, desyat' let, odinnadtsat' let, dvenadtsat' let, trinadsat' let, chetirnadsat' let, ..., dvadtsat' let, dvadtsat' odin god, dvadtsat' dva goda, dvadtsat' tri goda, dvadtsat' chetire goda, dvadtsat' pyat' let, ... and so on ad infinitum

In case all this is putting anybody off learning Russian, don't let it. It is a complex language, but (a) name any language that isn't, (b) it isn't all like this, and (c) the results are worth it. JackofOz 11:03, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

I think you guys overcomplicated the explanation. There is basically one, not too complex rule, regarding congruence numbers and nouns (see Talk:Dual (grammatical number)), and it's more or less shared across Slavic languages. Now, simply, "год" is one of very few words with irregular plural "лети", "лет" being Gen.Pl (the only other I can recall being человек ("man")), thus it follows the rule. Duja 16:41, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

There's also ребёнок "child", plural дети "children" following the pattern of человек, and perhaps there are others. (Though with that one there's potential confusion with ребята "children", which follows the pattern of words like котёнок "kitten" -> котята "kittens".) I agree that the explanation above was overcomplicated, perhaps intentionally. There are two phenomena interacting here, a completely regular pattern across the entire language governing numbers, and an isolated irregularity involving one word. I should note that годы is a perfectly good word for "years" and follows the normal pattern for plural nouns, and has the normal genitive plural годов "of years", as in 1960-х годов "of the 1960s". Also, the fact that лет meaning "years" after numbers comes from the genitive plural of лето "summer" doesn't mean that Russians are saying "summers". In the same way, when I ask my friend for a hundred bucks I'm not requesting any male deer, and it would be disingenuous to claim that when Americans want to talk about money, they have to talk about deer! There's no reason to scare people away from any language. Tesseran 20:48, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

True, except that "summer" is a lot more closely related to "year" than "buck" is to "dollar". Many cultures traditionally count in summers rather than in years (or so Hollywood would have us believe). JackofOz 22:51, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

"Pardon my French, but..."

Where did the phrase "pardon my French" before saying a foul world come from? Are the main "English" curse words actually French swears? Or derived from French obscenities? Or are they just French sounding words? What's the deal with this phrase? Any help on finding out the origin of this phrase would be appreciated. Thanks. – WaldoWatcher 22:29, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Not having any sources to back me up, I'll just have to give the explanation as I have always assumed it to be. By saying "Pardon my French" you're (jokingly) hoping to fool the other person into believing what they just heard you say wasn't a swear word at all, but rather a word in French. Angr (talk • contribs) 22:47, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

In the British mind, anything filthy, such as sex, is French. Henry^Flower 23:02, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

What fowl words were you thinking of - bird? hen? drumstick? (joke) JackofOz 00:15, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

I was of the opinion that it's simply because French is the most common second language taught in British schools. I don't know if any other English-speaking countries use the phrase. But I'd presume it's a euphemism with no etymological background.
Slumgum | yap | stalk | 00:25, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
P.S. I get Fowl World delivered weekly - it's a great magazine!

as Angr said, one who uses the phrase is supposed to use it jokingly--K.C. Tang 00:34, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

I'd just like to say that the expression is very commonly used in North America, not just Britain.Loomis51 01:08, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

The French are associated with risque (pretend there's a proper accent there) and, to some degree, vulgar things. Swear words fall under that umbrella and so "Pardon my French" implies that what you've said is risque/vulgar. Google agrees with me, so it must be true ;D —Seqsea (talk) 02:21, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

An interesting spin to this is that it is actually opposite the true derivation of the words. As English was developing, combining both Romance and Germanic language families, the upper educated class tended to use Latinate words more than the lower uneducated class. Thus, even though they mean the same thing, shit and fuck are vulgar but defecate and copulate are not. —WAvegetarian•_{CONTRIBUTIONS}^TALK• ^EMAIL• 02:55, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to add - in a slightly anecdotal manner - that in my family, should anyone use the word 'shit', we would add "pardon my French" afterwards, after we gained much hilarity from discovering a French lemonade called 'Psschit' (possibly spelt wrongly), named onomatopaeically for the sound the bottle makes when you open it. Phileas 03:07, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

You're talking Pschitt, Phileas. -- Slumgum | yap | stalk | 23:26, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

April 20

same word spelled fromnt and back

What is the name of a word spelled the same frontwards and backwards?

Thanks _Shanw\\wn

palindrome. JackofOz 02:12, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Jack

You're welcome ("emoclew reuoy" doesn't work). JackofOz 02:22, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

FYI, the longest palindrome that I know of in the English Language is "Madam I'm Adam" Loomis51 04:34, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

LOl. That's a palindromic sentence, strictly speaking. I know a longer one "A man, a plan, a canal - Panama" - but there are far longer ones than that.  :--) JackofOz 04:51, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

A man, a plan, a canoe, pasta, heros, rajahs, a coloratura, maps, snipe, percale, macaroni, a gag, a banana bag, a tan, a tag, a banana bag again (or a camel), a crepe, pins, Spam, a rut, a Rolo, cash, a jar, sore hats, a peon, a canal – Panama! --ByeByeBabyybaBeyBeyB 04:59, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

http://www.cs.usm.maine.edu/~welty/fun/palindromes.html talks of a 65,000 word book by one Edward Benbow which is palindromic. Tintin (talk) 05:03, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

You know, the author could be just claiming it to be palindromic, and I bet not many people would really care enough to test his word.  freshgavinΓΛĿЌ  06:45, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

I hereby coin the word "palindromoskepsis" to refer to your state of disbelief. See, good things can come from negative circumstances.  :--) JackofOz 12:38, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

There's also the word semordnilap to describe a word that spells a different word backwards. Daniel (☎) 18:53, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

My DOG, there's a word for everything, isn't there ? StuRat 19:32, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Indeed, I'm being very brave reading this page, as I suffer from aibohphobia. Phileas 03:03, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Prose Writing

can we use the words such as we or they while writing in a prose style.

Sure, especially if they fit with your choice of Grammatical person. --ByeByeBaby 05:03, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

The Surname Hitler

I'm wondering how common the German surname "Hitler" was prior to WWII, compared to after.

I don't live in a particularly German area of the world, and I can't find one Hitler in the phone book. I don't have access to a German phone book, so I don't know how common the name is there.

Was "Hitler" a common surname before WWII? If so, have those German families who have unfortunately been cursed with such a name since changed it to something else? Loomis51 04:31, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Hitler was never a particularily common name. Some of the speculations about Hitler's origins are based on the fact that he had a rather unusual family name. I think it's safe to say just about zero people in Germany which still have that name. Anyone showing that degree of insensitivity would've been completely ostracized in postwar Germany. There are still some similar names around though, like Heitler and Hüttler. (Another example of mass name-changing was caused by Marc Dutroux, the article mentions it.) --BluePlatypus 04:55, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

According to Adolf Hitler#Childhood and heritage it was a clerk's error for Hiedler, which was the name of his father's stepfather (and of his mother's mother). I don't know how common Hiedler is in Germany, but anyone named Hitler would have to be descended from Adolf's father, I think. Angr (talk • contribs) 07:23, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

According to Wikipedia's articles about Hitler and his family, there are currently three descendants of Alois Hitler alive in the entire world. I think it's fair to assume that, excluding people like Adolf Lu Hitler Marak, they are the only living people named Hitler in the world. JIP | Talk 08:19, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

The current German phonebook [1] finds one person named Hitler. The Austrian phonebook finds none [2]. There are 2 entries for Hiedler in Germany and 13 in Austria. I believe there never was any mass-changing of names because the name was very rare to begin with. Chl 17:24, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

I read several years ago about a woman in Albania, of all places, whose last name was Hitler, and she was trying to get it changed. User:Zoe|^(talk) 02:23, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

It occurs to me that if Turkish were to borrow the English word hit, perhaps in the meaning of "hit song", the plural of that would be hitler (How many hitler has Madonna had in her career?) Angr (talk • contribs) 08:01, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Christianity

Can someone transcribe this word for me? Sticking to the general trends of American English. Also, here's a link to two small audio files (crops from a show, actually): http://gametangium.t35.com/audio/ It seems like there's the retroflex flap in the end of the word, at least this is how I hear it in fast speech. On the other hand, I described this phenomenon at length on April 17th, but nobody noticed it (opportunity/community subject).

I don't have audio on my computer at the moment, but a narrow transcription of my General American pronunciation is [ˌkɹ̥ɪstʃiˈæ̃nəɾi] with an alveolar flap (not a retroflex flap) in the last syllable. Angr (talk • contribs) 12:40, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

I can't open those mp3s.mnewmanqc

Try to save them from the page, not start; or try to read the text files, and only then try to download the audio files, because I also had an unexpected error page after clicking on one of the audio files. http://gametangium.t35.com/audio/christianity.mp3 and http://gametangium.t35.com/audio/christianity2.mp3

Okay, I listened to them. The second one (christianity2.mp3) sounds like a normal alveolar flap to me, but the first one (christianity.mp3) does sound slightly retracted, though not enough to call it a retroflex. Angr (talk • contribs) 19:18, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

"Revolution starts at closing time"

I would like to find out what exactly does the expression "Revolution starts/begins at closing time" mean. I would also appreciate any information about its origins and use in popular culture. --Braggite As I understand it,it means people get fired up after drinking a lot.In Britain we have set closing times for pubs which is when people are at their rowdiest.I have a vague idea it was George Orwell but I may be wrong.Hotclaws**==(82.138.214.1 09:01, 22 April 2006 (UTC))

 Thanks, Hotclaws. I'll probably have to read Orwell's every book once more, just to be sure...
  --Braggite

April 21

What is the best way to learn German?

can i learn it conviniently from the internet?--Carbonferum 12:53, 21 April 2006 (UTC+0800)

Conveniently, certainly, but not as well as with a human teacher. You could teach yourself with our German grammar article and an online dictionary; the BBC has a free basic course here; and you could find yourself one or two German to talk to via msn, aol, skype etc. Henry^Flower 18:41, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Henry Flower. --Carbonferum 05:05, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

From my experience the internet isnt very good at teaching languges, (my attempt to learn Spanish failed misrably). I learnt German from a teacher and its definitly the best way to do it.

To each their own of course. Some people respond better to different learning methods. To me, classes are a waste of time because I can tailor my learning better myself, at least for something like languages with so much volume of material available for learning. Others respond better to a structured system like a class. And Carbonferum, the above section where someone asked how to learn Chinese might be helpful too. - Taxman ^Talk 13:49, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Take a few German language classes, using the Internet as a reference when you need to (for instance, on grammar and spelling). Then go to a German-speaking country for six months. Nothing helps you learn a language faster than being forced to speak it! :) — QuantumEleven 14:18, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Latin Translations

Does anyone know the latin translation of 'witch' or 'Impervious'. I am researching Latin for a book I am writing and can't find a free decnt translator. I was hoping someone here could help. Please!

P.S If you leave your name you will be mentioned in the Acknowlegdements. Thank You. Please Help!

This may help you for witch. --Andrew c 18:47, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

For witch: 'venefica', 'saga', lamia', 'praecantrix', 'incantatrix', 'phitonissa'. For impervious: 'clausus', 'clusus', 'impiatus'. I used the program WORDS by William Whittaker, which is freely downloadable, and brilliant. They all have different connotations, but the program will tell you those. If you're making a habit of this, go buy a Latin dictionary. Daniel (☎) 18:51, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Is "strix" another word for witch? JackofOz 22:32, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Kinda. It appears to be the source of "strega". See strix (mythology). --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 22:54, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

There is also, of course, "malefica", as in Malleus Maleficarum. Adam Bishop 01:57, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

And don't forget fascinatrix! Wow, there are a lot of Latin words for witch. —Keenan Pepper 15:02, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Which is quite normal, as when they did speak good latin they didn't burn them. --DLL 16:38, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Are you guys sure those aren't just Asterix characters? ;) --BluePlatypus 17:04, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Does anyone know what a roliscanhardly is??

Roliscanhardly is an item worth a number of points on a scavenger hunt list, when searching the internet the only place it popped up was on another scavenger hunt list that was on-line. Just wondering if anyone knew anything about this, I was thinking it might be a made up thing to keep greedy people from getting the rest of the items on the list?? Thanks for your help.

redhed

rolLscanhardly ? MeltBanana 20:17, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, "Rolls Canardly", which is a humorous, fictitious model of Rolls Royce motor car. The joke is that, when it rolls down a hill, it "can hardly" get back up again. It's a very old joke - search for it on the web and you'll find lots of citations. --Heron 20:22, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Signing off on

Of recent years, people are often said to have "signed off on" something, eg. "The government has now finalised its consideration of the tax reforms. Last night the Treasurer signed off on the changes to be introduced to parliament next month"

I can think of few more absurd constructions. Why use three words when one would do ("agree", "approve" etc)? And why juxtapose "off" and "on" like this? How come the world was able to get by without this crazy-speak for so long? What is really going on here? JackofOz 23:15, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

It's probably just one of those wird sounding phrases in english. First one that comes to mind is "for four" (I was in the plane for four hours). schyler 00:37, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Not as weird as the Swedish phrase: Far, får får får? Nej, får får inte får, får får lamm. :) ("får" sounds like "four", BTW) --BluePlatypus 06:28, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

I tend to pronounce "for" just like "fur", avoiding the " 4 - 4 " issue. (Born/raised Yonkers; H.S. in Bronx; college at NYU; in Brooklyn 4.5 years & counting) --Nelson Ricardo 05:56, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

'Sign off on' is a three-word phrasal verb, similar to 'drop out of', 'get along with', 'get rid of', and 'think back on'. Hope this helps.--Andrew c 01:19, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

i guess we all know it's a phrasal verb... i think Jack's point is that why ppl choose to use an awkward phrasal verb ("on" and "off" coming together is jarring, i agree) instead of a simple non-phrasal verb...in most cases a phrasal verb is more "vigorous", but probably not in this case...--K.C. Tang 02:08, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

I can just about live with "signing off" something, but "signing off on" seems not only unnecessary but meaningless and ungrammatical. If it must exist, I suppose it has to be categorised as a phrasal verb, but I still dispute its right to exist to begin with. Why didn't it just die the death it so richly deserves, rather than being copied ad nauseam by every journalist in the world? JackofOz 04:10, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

it's certainly grammatical... it's just a problem of taste... maybe it wil die soon, who knows? :)--K.C. Tang 04:24, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Seeing 'off' and 'on' together is a little odd, but it's a simple consequence of word formation, (sign off) is a compound verb, and ((sign off) on) follows. Peter Grey 04:57, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

See, that's where I differ from both of you. To sign something off means to approve it. You don't "approve on" something, you just "approve" it. So you don't "sign it off on", you just "sign it off". What purpose does the extra word "on" serve? All I can think of is that, despite being one word longer, "sign off on the changes" is actually easier to say than "sign off the changes". But just because it flows more easily orally doesn't make it correct. Another example is "If only I had have (or had've) known ...". We all know the correct version is "If only I had known", but "had have" sort of sounds right because it's redolent of "could have", "should have" etc. JackofOz 08:30, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

It seems to me that this is one of those phrases that only sound weird when you think about them. I know that if someone were to say "signed off on" (in context) to me, I probably wouldn't even note that there was off and on right next to each other.

Yes, it takes weirdos like me to notice these things. Well, someone's got to be the gatekeeper. A lot of new phrases just enter the language surreptitiously and before you know it, everyone's saying them as if they've been around forever. (Well, everyone in Journalese-speak Land, that is. I don't mind admitting my xenophobia in this case.) JackofOz 03:38, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't mean "agree" or "approve." It means to put a literal signature on a piece of paper. It's a formal thing. Strange that it has such an informal amalgamated phrase... --Keitei (talk) 17:56, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm sure it isn't confined to literally signing a piece of paper. I've heard it used in much broader contexts. JackofOz 03:38, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Newspeak

Maybe it was last week or so, but I saw a question about Nineteen Eighty-Four and someone answered in newspeak. I was wondering if newspeak has actual grammar rules and other (lack of another word) stuff. I certaintly looked at our article on newspeak but, as you may know, some articles on Wikipedia don't have all the information you would like them to have (e.g. Red Scarf Girl). Is Newspeak as advanced as Klingon as a fictional language? Or is it just kind of there? Thanks. schyler 00:46, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

My understanding is that Newspeak is in fact merely English with certain changes representing the mindset intended in the book. I'd hardly consider myself an expert, however. The Jade Knight 01:43, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

You can read Orwell's appendix on Newspeak here. David Sneek 10:57, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm Lovin' It

Sorry for posting two questions in a row, but on the I'm Lovin' It article, it says the spanish phrase is Me Encanta and "litterally means" I Love It. Wouldn't it "litterally mean" It Enchants Myself? schyler 01:03, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Not really. That's a pretty standard usage of encantar, in fact the first entry in my English-Spanish dictionary is love. Also, reflexive verbs should not be translated with English words like myself. It's just a grammatical feature of the language with no semantic meaning. —Keenan Pepper 01:36, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

I know that's the standard usage but if it says literal meaning then shouldn't it be that. It's like the verb gustar: it doesn't mean to like it means to be pleasing to. So, encantar is to be enchanting to. Thus, Me Encnta is It Enchanmts Myself. Do non't enchant it, it enchants you. But i'm only a 3rd year speaker, no where at all an expert on this. I do, however, believe that my teacher (who has several masters degrees in spanish, teaching a foreign language, etc.) would agree with me. He stresses this a lot in his classes. schyler 02:41, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

The literal meaning of encantar is to love or enjoy. It's not an idiom. Translating me encanta as it enchants myself is not a literal translation, it's Spanglish. In contrast, an idiom like naranjas de la China has a literal translation (oranges of China) and an idiomatic translation (nonsense). Do you see the difference? A literal translation doesn't have to preserve the same grammatical form, it just has to mean the same thing. This would be more obvious with a language whose grammar is farther from that of English. If you tried to take a Chinese sentence and translate it word-by-word into English, you would get ungrammatical or at least very strange-sounding English. A proper translation, even a literal one, has to change the grammatical form. —Keenan Pepper 02:54, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Giving to be pleasing to as an equivalent for gustar is a great teaching tool, because it allows you to mechanically replace the Spanish word with an English phrase and get something that at least makes sense, but it doesn't mean that's the only way to get a literal translation. —Keenan Pepper 02:56, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

yes, a literal translation is usually distinguished from a word-for-word translation.--K.C. Tang 03:39, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

A word for word translation is called a gloss in linguistics, for instance if you have an example sentence in an unfamiliar language you put a word for word, actually morpheme by morpheme translation below it, as in the example below. Then below that, you provide a real translation.

me encantan las naranjas de la China.

me enchant the oranges of the China

"I love nonsense" /"I love oranges from China"

Although I must say I never heard of naranjas de la china used to mean nonsense. mnewmanqc

I just picked a random idiom from my dictionary. It's probably old-fashioned, or only common in a certain country. —Keenan Pepper 14:59, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Don't all oranges come from China (or Asia) to begin with, anyway? As the German "Apfelsine" from apfel (apple) + sine ("Sinæ" - Chinese, compare "Sino-") indicates. "Naranjas de Islandia" would be more nonsensical. :) --BluePlatypus 16:59, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

First blue platypuses, now Icelandic oranges. What will your crazy brain think of next?  :--) JackofOz 03:27, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

ART HISTORY

What does the word faux naif faux-naif mean in art hisrory?

French form of Naïve art. MeltBanana 13:21, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Latin Translation

Hello i would like to know how to say "While we breathe there is still hope" in latin could you please help me...

Thank you Steve Panton

The Latin proverb is Dum spiro spero, which literally means "While I breathe, I hope". Angr (talk • contribs) 11:39, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

It's the state motto of South Carolina. User:Zoe|^(talk) 02:42, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

panaceum - panacea

I was taught that "panaceum" is singular, and "panacea" is plural, like bacterium-bacteria, medium-media, criterion-criteria, etc. Is it only in Latin - because American/English dictionares say "panacea" is singular? Is it?

Rich [email removed]

Panacea is singular. There's no such word as panaceum. The plural is either panaceas or panaceae if you want to be pedantic. —Keenan Pepper 17:26, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

sources

i need to know who wrote the article on george allen smith

Look in the edit history. AnonMoos 17:28, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Many people contributed to it. See Wikipedia:Citing Wikipedia for how to cite Wikipedia. —Keenan Pepper 17:29, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

You can also use this link to find the primary contributors. [3] Daniel Šebesta (talk • contribs) 17:31, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Someone speaking English and hearing another language

I am learning Spanish, Japanese, and some other languages. During the years I've spent learning, some peculiar things have happened.

1. Someone will say something to me in Engilsh, and I will hear it in Spanish/French/Japanese. The meaning isn't the same however. This especially happens alot when whatever they are saying is garbled by background noise.

2. I will be looking through the Spanish side of a Spanish-English dictionary for an English word. Same thing happens in a Japanese-English dictionary, which kindof wierds me out, seeing that the symbols look nothing like English letters.

3. A person asks me a question in Spanish and I answer his question in English, without realizing it. Then I have to say it in Spanish, much to the annoyance of the person.

4. Sometimes, Japanese people look at me funny when I talk to them in Japanese (I'm white). However, they aren't looking at me because I am slurring/butchering the language. They just have a hard time believeing it's possible, and they think they've been transported to a Japanese version of the twilight zone.

Why do these things occur? Thanks! 68.52.56.111 19:04, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Your reactions are a combination of perception, habituation, distraction, and startle reaction effects.—Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) • (yo?); 19:13, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

I've some times ansered questions in English when asked in German and vise versa. I tend to "hear" the question in whatever language I've been using for the past few hours.

Sometimes I cannot remember for the life of me what language someone told me something in. The Jade Knight 23:20, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

I wondered how people can keep two languages separate like that, but I suppose even those which speak a single language have the same issue, as there are formal and vulgar forms one needs to use in the correct contexts. So, we must have a built-in ability to keep different sets of words, phrases, and usages in our brains for different settings. StuRat 01:13, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

I have heard that the Japanese are very impressed by any foreigner (or at least any Westerner) that speaks their language. I don't know exactly why, but it may be because they think most Westerners are too snobbish to take the effort, so they are touched by anyone who does take the effort. I don't know. Whatever the case, take their unbelief as a compliment. Linguofreak 14:47, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Frocio

I assume the term is Italian, because it was used by a defender of Silvio Berlusconi on his talk page. Presumably, it's a term of abuse. I'm curious to know what it means, as it doesn't show up in my minimal Italian-English dictionary. Bhumiya (said/done) 20:22, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

According to my middling-sized dictionary: a vulgar term for homosexual; ‘faggot’. (Which, if you have been unable to avoid that user’s previous comments, will surprize you as little as it did me.)—Ian Spackman 20:36, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, I wasn't expecting anything high-brow. Thanks, Ian! Bhumiya (said/done) 21:31, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Can someone translate this?

اود ان اجد لعبة لكود ليوكو Pacific Coast Highway • ^blah 21:58, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

The machine translation is: "Perishes that serious game [lkwd] [lywkw]" using this translator. Hope that helps. --Fuhghettaboutit 21:34, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

It looks kind of like it should be in Arabic, but doesn't really hold together as a sentence, as far as I can tell. The word لعبة lu`bah means a "plaything" or "laughing-stock". The word اجد (an elative of a doubled root, which should properly be spelled إجد with hamza) could mean "more serious" or "more recent". The letters ليوكو look a whole lot like a transcription of a foreign word, but "Lioko" or "Liuku" or whatever doesn't really suggest anything. AnonMoos 21:43, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Likud ? --DLL 21:01, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Likud in Arabic would be حزب ليكود [4] or similar. AnonMoos 21:10, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

The Russian preposition во

How is the o in the Russian preposition "во" pronounced - is it always a normal "o" or does vowel reduction apply somehow? For example in the phrase "во всём". PeepP 22:45, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

I pronounce it as "vah vsyom" (if the both words are stressed), "vuh vsyom" (if it's fast speech, where the 'uh' part is the a-schwa).

The letter "o" in Russian has unique rules for pronunciation. More often than not, it's pronounced more like an "a" than an "o". This is especially true in words that include two "o"s. As a general rule, never more than one "o" in a word is pronounced as an "o", and the rest are pronounced more like "a"s. However, in many words with one syllable, the only "o" is pronounced as an "a". Take the phrase "DO CKOPOBO", a common greeting of farewell meaning "until soon" (as in the French "à bientôt".) Of the four "o"s in "DO CKOPOBO", only one is pronounced "o", while the others are pronounced more like "a"s. Hence "DO CKOPOBO" is pronounced something like "DA SKORAVA". I know this isn't the best response, but I hope it helps. Loomis51 01:45, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

The other thing to bear in mind is that "во" where used prepositionally is virtually never stressed, as it is a variant of "в" (which is inherently unstressable). The only 2 exceptions I can think of are "вó-время" ("at the proper time"), and "вóвсе" ("at all"). "во" of course occurs stressed in non-prepositional contexts such as "вóдка" (vodka). JackofOz 03:16, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

BTW, Loomis, you're mixing up Cyrillic and Latin letters in the same expression, DO CKOPOBO. The Cyrillic is "до скорого", the letter-for-letter transliteration is "do skorogo", and the pronunciation is "da skorava". JackofOz 03:16, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the answers. If во is virtually never stressed, then can you give some examples of prepositions with an "o" that can sometimes be stressed - or are other prepositions (со, ко, etc.) similar? I'm only curious about the cases when the preposition is separated with a space, because I consider "во-время" one word and thus not that confusing. PeepP 11:41, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

I would say they all follow the same principle. I don't think any monosyllabic Russian preposition is normally stressed. In conversation you can stress any word you like in order to make a point, but that's a different thing. JackofOz 03:27, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

April 22

Sweeeeeeet

In my spanish class, when there is a 3 day weekend (for example last weekend) our teacher usually doesn't give us a dily homework assignment for over the holiday. One of my friends (last week) said, "Dulceeeeeee," like the English Sweeeeeeet. He also sometimes add fregando because it sounds like frigin', but it is of course washing dishes (scrubbing). I know this is not correct though. What could someone say in Spanish and get the same point across? schyler 02:05, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

The answer depends on the dialect, though I like your friends linguistic creativity. A common northern Latin American expression indicating something like cool is que chévere. In Spain, que guay. On the other hand, maybe young native speakers can come up with something better. mnewmanqc

Don't Mexicans sometimes use the term ¡órale! in this sense? Bhumiya (said/done) 21:39, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

I've heard "Muy amable" (very kind (of you)" in the ironic sense used in your example. Jameswilson 23:30, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Sweet or cool is sometimes translated as genial in Latin America, chulo in Spain and some other areas, and padre in Mexico. The first two translations, however, are quite rare. The nearest equivalent that is widely accepted is ¡Eso!, which means something like All right! Mnewmanqc's translation chévere is also close in meaning to cool, and can be used even as an adjective besides an interjection.--El aprendelenguas 18:19, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

German to English translation: Spätheimkehrer

I am looking for the english translation of the german "der Spätheimkehrer". It is a term describing a german WWII soldier returning from soviet imprisonment as late as 1955. There is a german wikipedia entry for the term: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spätheimkehrer. Thank you! Don420 07:45, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't know if there is an English word for German POWs returning to Germany as late as 1955. "Late returners", perhaps, though the term would have to be explained to an English-speaking audience. If you're translating de:Heimkehrer into English, I'd say just leave the term in German and explain what it literally means. Angr (talk • contribs) 08:56, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Resources for learning Chinese (Mandarin) (moved from April 19)

My fiancée has recently promised to by me any one item to help me learn Chinese.

What would you say is the most effective tool (CD, book, etc.) to learn Chinese? I'm looking for something I can buy here, not a suggestion like "visit China" or "speak with a native". Any suggestions? The Jade Knight 07:30, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Where is "here"? Notinasnaid 07:41, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Are Chinese classes at your local community college or private language school an option, and if so, do they count as "something you can buy"? Because despite the big industry in language self-teaching, it really isn't particularly effective in most cases. Angr (talk • contribs) 07:44, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Here = United States (or something one can get over the internet). I know that immersion is the best way to learn, but I'm really just asking, of all the books, CDs, and multimedia programs out there, what's the best? The Jade Knight 22:15, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

See what your library has, and search for a while on the internet. After a while I was able to assemble enough sources to learn Hindi including audio lessons, video, exercises, etc all for free. There's probably more available for Mandarin than Hindi. If your library has the Pimsleur CD series, those really are pretty good, but to buy them they're $300 each and there are 3 levels for Mandarin. Depending on your reasons for learning you may want to learn Mandarin and a dialect, though standard Mandarin is a good start. Also you have to decide if you want to learn how to read and write or just speak. But the free route gives you time to see if you really are committed before spending any money. I find commuting time is the best otherwise wasted time I can utilize, so I try to get as much audio material as possible. I've been wondering if the Rosetta Stone software is any good. They do have a guarantee, but given I have a lot of other stuff I'm not too motivated to spend any money. - Taxman ^Talk 22:29, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

I really thought the Rosetta Stone demo was good, but I'm not sure if it's worth it over something I can get for $50 or less with an Academic discount. The Jade Knight 06:13, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

From your user page, you seem to be (or seem to fancy yourself!) quite good with languages. In that case Pimsleur is too basic- even at the end of level three you've had only 45 hours of instruction and have only reached a very low (albeit secure) level. If you're up for learning to read and write as well, the Practical Chinese Readers from the Beijing Language Institute are solid, if dull, but I don't know if their oral textbooks are available in the US. Henry^Flower 12:13, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Oh, yeah I didn't see your user page which is pretty impressive. What are you saying you can get for $50 with the discount? And as a good example of what I was saying, a google search for Practical Chinese Reader (which is a great suggestion btw and seems to be exactly what you are looking for.) gives a link to http://ktmatu.com/chinese/practical-chinese-reader/ that has the vocabulary for both books and the audio for the first one. Everything I see does point to that one being considered very good. - Taxman ^Talk 19:08, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Update: The software I can get is Instant Immersion Chinese. Should I go this route, or fork out the cash for Rosetta Stone, or go with Basic Chinese Reader, do you think? The Jade Knight 23:36, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

I've played around a bit with Rosetta Stone and Pimsleur, and would personally prefer the latter. Rosetta Stone is very good in some ways -- it's really easy to use, somewhat fun and it's very good at building vocabulary. Unfortunately, it's not as good at building knowledge of grammatical structures. The [Amazon review by Eleanor Lin] is a good explanation why. The Pimsleur program is better at covering grammatical issues, and it also provides a more real-world use. The first things you learn in Pimsleur are things like "excuse me", "Do you speak English", and "I don't understand". The first things you learn in Rosetta Stone are things like "a man and a girl" "a ball" and "the boy is under the airplane". Which would you rather have in the Beijing airport? One other suggestion I have is to see if there's a Confucius Institute in your area; if the Chinese government is going to pay good money on cultural imperialism, it would be foolish not to take advantage. --ByeByeBaby 03:16, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

April 23

Gibberish

Hi, I just barely bought this Relient K cd. On the cd is a song written almost all in Gibberish. here are the Gibberish parts of the lyrics. I was wondering if you could tell me what they are saying. Thank you!

LYRICS arg wu sentafinticate nar dunderford bida menti kosticated interserd thorphilliate stinded yilla billa zay wentora yate paravillintiniay paravillintiniay

dorga orpha dorga billa dorga orpha stifaleare dorga orpha dorga billa tonalation fonamere

Thanks again!

It seems they're saying... gibberish. That is, nothing intelligible. From the looks of it, it looks like it might be a commentary on people who try to use big words to sound intellectual (like the words ending in "ticate" and "illiate"). The rest of the lyrics seem to suggest that Relient K has a low opinion of gibberish-talkers ;) (Also, I'm reminded of Blazing Saddles and authentic frontier gibberish, but that's neither here nor there.) —Seqsea (talk) 06:00, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

My Shadow

what is the content of poetry 'My Shadow' by Robert Louis Stevenson My Shadow

I HAVE a little shadow that goes in and out with me, And what can be the use of him is more than I can see. He is very, very like me from the heels up to the head; And I see him jump before me, when I jump into my bed.

The funniest thing about him is the way he likes to grow— 5 Not at all like proper children, which is always very slow; For he sometimes shoots up taller like an India-rubber ball, And he sometimes gets so little that there’s none of him at all.

He hasn’t got a notion of how children ought to play, And can only make a fool of me in every sort of way. 10 He stays so close beside me, he’s a coward you can see; I’d think shame to stick to nursie as that shadow sticks to me!

One morning, very early, before the sun was up, I rose and found the shining dew on every buttercup; But my lazy little shadow, like an arrant sleepy-head, 15 Had stayed at home behind me and was fast asleep in bed.

Please do your own homework. Angr (talk • contribs) 07:03, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Teeline shorthand

I wish to learn Teeline, could anybody reccomend a good free online tutorial?--Keycard ^(talk) 08:34, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

what does "I'm lovin' it" really mean?

As a non-native speaker, I always thought that the phrase is just an emphatic way of saying "i love it", but after looking at the versions of the slogan in different languages, i began to doubt my understanding. could you guys explain it to me? --K.C. Tang 12:02, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

It's not their invention. It's a kind of colloquial expression that is probably recent. It sounds like something out of the entertainment industry to me. It means I'm really enjoying it. However, the equivalents in other languages may not be translations, just something designed to promote the product based on market research in that country--mnewmanqc

To me it doesn't mean much more than a Micky D's slogan. Colloquial American dialects will sometimes use the be+participle form at times when "standard" forms of the language call for the simple verb. E.g: "He's wanting an x," rather than: "He wants an x." I'm not sure, even as a native speaker who uses these constructions quite a bit (although "love" is not generally one of the verbs I do that with), whether or not the meaning is any different. I can't really give you a confident answer either way. At the moment I would say that (in my dialect at least), "I'm lovin' it," is simply a somewhat different way of saying "I love it," or "I'm enjoying it," without much change of meaning.

The only person I have ever heard use this phrase is a Mancunian high school teacher (and I am in Canada). Otherwise it's just a stupid advertising slogan...it's a completely understandable phrase, but no one would ever say that in normal conversation. Adam Bishop 17:03, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

I believe the phrase existed in the US prior to it's incorporation into McD ads. I would say it means "I currently love it". As in the following exchange:

"Do you want to stay single forever ?"

"I'm lovin' it right now, but in 5 years, who knows ?"

StuRat 20:50, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

---

One of Maxwell Smart's lesser catchphrases was "...and loving it" (after his boss told him about the dangers his latest spy mission would expose him to...). AnonMoos 17:30, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

American and British English

I was wondering what people who speak British English think of how Americans speak English. I know many Americans find it amusing under some circumstances, but how do Brits find us Americans? Do you believe we speak the wrong way or is amusing as well? User:Chile 10:02 AM 4-23-06

I would imagine that the popularity and prevalence of American television in the UK and Australia has gone some way to helping many speakers of British or Commonwealth English get used to American English usage, pronunciation and terms. I have, however, noticed there is some irritation about American spelling of words like "colour/color" or "standardise/standardize", and the pronunciation of the last letter of the alphabet as "zee" rather then "zed". --Canley 15:21, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

'Lazy' probably best sums it up. Laziness in articulation and in, like, thought? My parents claim that they can no longer understand American accents in films, but whether that's their ageing or your degenerating I cannot say. Henry^Flower 16:26, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

It seems attitudes toward American English in Britain have changed over time, though. I remember reading a 1930s British novelist (can't remember who now, Dorothy L. Sayers perhaps, but not necessarily), whose stereotyped American characters always used long Latinate words in syntactically highly convoluted sentences. Angr (talk • contribs) 16:59, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

That sounds more like an upper-class trait than an American trait. StuRat 20:42, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Australian Accent

The previous question inspired me to ask this one that's been on my mind in the past:

As a North American, the Australian accent sounds rather similar to the British (although it's still quite distinct.) In any case, what I'm saying is that it sounds more British than North American. But that's only from my North American point of view.

Do Brits, from their point of view, when hearing an Aussie accent, consider it just as foreign as a North American accent? Or do they find it quite a bit more similar? (I'm not talking about the vocabulary...there the Aussies are on their own little planet of boggeriboos and widgeriwoos :) which I'm sure are much more foreign to Brits than whatever idioms North Americans have dreamed up.) Loomis51 15:22, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

If you really want to compare the three, the IPA chart for English can help.--The ikiroid (talk parler hablar paroli 说 話し parlar) 15:52, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

My unscientific impression is that an Aussie accent is more like a US one than a British one. I didn't know that Russell Crowe was Australian until I was told, for example. (It seems that in fact he may be from New Zealand, but that's pretty much the same). Henry^Flower 16:29, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

As for causes, North America was colonized by England much earlier than Australia, so I would expect more divergence to occur in the longer time frame. However, since they were both colonized by England (instead of, say, Australia being colonized by the US), I would expect both to be variations on British English, but not very similar to each other. Also, North America is closer to the UK, so perhaps there was more travel and cultural exchange between the two, which would tend to keep the dialects closer. StuRat 20:17, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

To me (Irish) all Brits sound the same(exxpting scots who have a distinct accent), all Ausies, New Zelanders and South africans sound the same. However I can generly tell the difrence betwen divrent U.S. accents, Not to the state bu to a general area, eg. West, South

From the U.S. point of view, Australian accents sound a little like Cockney. I don't know what New Zealand accents sound like; sometimes they can be rather difficult to understand... AnonMoos 20:23, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Learning Arabic

I would Like to learn arabic - specially for reading arabic books. Whats the best way to learn ? --mashuq

If you just want a passive reading knowledge of the standard written language only, then don't bother with "conversational" or audio courses -- most such courses teach a form of the language which is rather different from that which you'll find written in books, and learning Arabic is already difficult enough without spending time on skills which are not essential to you. Buy a copy of the Dictionary of Modern Written Arabic, and one (or even better, several) grammatically-oriented -- not conversationally-oriented -- introductions to Arabic. I can't say which one is best, but some which I happen to have picked up over the years are "Teach Yourself Arabic" by A.S. Tritton, "An Introduction to Modern Literary Arabic" by David Cowan, and "Arabic Grammar: A First Workbook" by G.M. Wickens. AnonMoos 20:36, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

The best way to learn is to listen to your teacher and / or read your books, but to keep disapproving whenever you want. --DLL 20:54, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

If he was enrolled in a formal class, I doubt if he would have been asking the question in the first place. AnonMoos 21:01, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Language Excerpt from Hot/Cold Pack

Hello. I have a hot/cold pack from Mueller, and on the back the instructions are given in different languages. I (think that I) know what language all the instructions are in except for one set. If anyone could tell me what language it is, I would appreciate it. I'm thinking something like Dutch, but I'm not sure. Well, here's an excerpt from the instructions:

"KOUD-WARM KOMPRES/OPNIEUW TE GEBRUIKEN"

"Voor koud gebruik Laat het kompres tenminste 1 1/2 uur op de bodem van het vriesvak liggen alvorens het te gebruiken; plaats het krompes in een hoes of wikkel het in een handdoek en leg op het betreffende lichaamsdeel."

Thanks for your help. --Think Fast 21:24, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Yep, it's something like Dutch all right. Something very much like Dutch indeed. Something pretty much exactly like Dutch. ;-) Angr (talk • contribs) 21:54, 23 April 2006 (UTC)