Talk:Soviet Union
Unfortunately, my first-hand research of Stalin was limited to the period from 1915-1921. In 1997, I was translating telegrams and messages regarding the Czech Legion's anabasis across Revolutionary Russia after their defection from the Austro-Hungarian Army on the Eastern Front of World War I. Many of these documents were handwritten by Stalin, Lenin, Aralov, and Trotsky. I wikified all of this, because it has to do with the Soviet Union and I need to dig my notes out and write about that.
Larry, I still have many of my rough draft translations from that project, would that be considered encyclopedic (general education)? The professor is dead now and the project died with her (and I can't get the fellowship to continue the work!), but I know not the legalities on this. --Invictus
Well, this is a very good question. We've discussed a similar question on Nupedia: should original research be included in the encyclopedia? The answer for Nupedia is: generally speaking, no. An encyclopedia is a summation of what is known about a subject, not a place for original research. (This is a summary of the conclusion we, most of us, came to, not our reasoning.) Now, on Wikipedia, perhaps we would want to be more inclusive. One might ask what reason we might have for not being inclusive in this regard. I think there might be a reason; the purpose of an encyclopedia is not to put research under the careful scrutiny of experts, as with journal and academic book publishing.
So one might argue that, unless your research had already been reviewed in such a forum, it wouldn't be appropriate for Wikipedia (or Nupedia), because, for all we know, it might be really shoddy work. Of course, I'm not saying your work is shoddy work--probably it isn't. But that's not for Wikipedia to determine.
Here is another possible argument: if indeed your research were important enough to be included as the source for encyclopedically-imparted (alleged) fact, then (probably, only probably) it should and would already have been published and made more widely known to the world. On the other hand, if it's not important enough to have been published, then it's surely not important enough to be a source for encyclopedically-imparted (alleged) fact (I'm thinking I like that phrase; we can create an acronym: enimaf). And on a third hand, supposing that what you're translating is already widely-known and imparted in various sources about Stalin's Russia, then I have a question: shouldn't we consult such sources in conjunction with your work? Very often, historical examination of source material by non-historians is prone to all sorts of mistakes--just like examination of history of philosophy by non-philosophers, or examination of history of science by non-scientists, etc.
As to the legalities, I don't know, but I imagine they're worth considering, at least.
Anyway, I'd be interested to see what other people have to say about this. I think it's an interesting subject. Above, mainly I'm playing devil's advocate, but I am by no means strongly on this side of the debate.
Larry, I presume you know the Russian Language, so you know that context is of great importance to the proper and accurate translation thereof. Regarding the translation work I performed for the professor in question, She required that ALL of her assistants on this project read 18 different books in order to have a firm understanding of the history behind the project. So, many sources were consulted in conjunction with the work and the translations were reviewed by the senior Russian professor for accuracy.
There's so much to write upon and discover about the former USSR and its beginnings. IMHO, This debate - friendly, as it is - is excellent. I'm all for enimaf! --Invictus
Here's this from the CIA site in re: Russian history. I haven't added it--for the first time--because it seems overly simplistic, vague, and just short of propaganda. If you disagree, then by all means add it. :-)
- "The defeat of the Russian Empire in World War I led to the seizure of power by the communists and the formation of the USSR. The brutal rule of Josef Stalin (1924-53) strengthened Russian dominance of the Soviet Union at a cost of tens of millions of lives. The Soviet economy and society stagnated in the following decades until General Secretary Mikhail GORBACHEV (1985-91) introduced glasnost (openness) and perestroika (restructuring) in an attempt to modernize communism, but his initiatives inadvertently released forces that by December 1991 broke up the USSR into 15 independent republics. Since then, Russia has struggled in its efforts to build a democratic political system and market economy to replace the strict social, political, and economic controls of the communist period."
I don't think this is propaganda. It may not be very well-written. I don't think the Russian Empire was defeated in WWI - they were overthrown by a domestic revolution, with the new government dropping out of the war. The economy did not stagnate "until" Gorbachev - it continued to stagnate throughout Gorbachev's rule. Whether society stagnated would be difficult to say, as it's not clear what this would mean. I'd say let's use the US State Deptartment histories instead of the CIA's, because they are much more thorough. TS
Disagree with the description of USSR as totalitarian for its entire history -- that is, 1917-1991. It was certainly so during Stalin's rule and after, but a case could be made that it was not so earlier. However, re: TS comment above -- IIRC, the Russian Empire did in fact surrender to Germany, and lost the Ukraine in the process. The revolution did not occur until after the Russian surrender. --RjLesch
Start date is wrong. It wasn't called 'Soviet Union' in the first few years. --Taw
I thought the reason they pulled out of WWI was that it was such a crappy war and one of the reasons the revolt happened in the first place. The Red Army probably was in disarray, but wouldn't they have pulled out regardless? - Eean
True. My text there is a unclear, (or maybe plain wrong!) feel free to rewrite, or I'll do it myself in a few days... -Guppie
There should be a separate page or at least a section in this one for "soviet" as its real meaning which is a workers' council. --Daniel C. Boyer
Something should be said about the Soviet Union's relationship with China, especially after the rise of communism in China.
Brion, are you still planning to convert this article to the WikiProject Countries format? I'd be willing to help. Jeronimo
- Sure, wanna start? --Brion
Let's. Jeronimo
The flag .gif has to come off the Meta page and be uploaded her to be seen. -- Zoe
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