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June 3

What kind of robe does Zatch wear in the anime series Zatch Bell?

An announcer on Cartoon Network's Miguzi lineup just referred to Zatch, the main character of anime series Zatch Bell, as "the kid in the dress"; I had previously missed the whole possibility of his costume being a dress, and would like to know if anyone else knows what type of robe it is he wears. Or if I'm wrong, because I can't seem to find reference of the type of robe through google or wikipedia. --Cryptess 00:32, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Can't say I've ever seen the show myself, but it's described by one person as looking like a 'choir boy cloak' on this page at animenfo, and it can be seen in detail in this image --Noodhoog 00:52, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Square Ended Ties

When is it/is it not appropriate to wear a tie with square ends? --Username132 (talk) 02:36, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

I's not when on a nude beach. --Lambiam^Talk 17:59, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

I would prefer to wear a rather long, wide tie on such occasions. :-) StuRat 18:19, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Shouldn't you wear... no tie? I thought you wanted to be nude? — The Mac Davis] ⌇☢ ญƛ. 09:40, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

OK, I'll only wear it on formal occasions at the nudist colony. :-) StuRat 02:47, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

road trip 2

i asked this question before, and got good answers, but i'm not sure i wanna go with either. can anybody suggest a couple really good, popular-enough-to-be-available-on-tape, history books. i'm going on a long road-trip and would like my time to be put to good use. someone suggested band of brothers, but i shy away from something so specific that it ends up sort of being a novel in historical context. i really liked schama's histories of britain, because they were very entertaining but widely informative. i actually learned about history in large area over a fairly long period of time. i was considering maybe "my rise and fall" by mussolini, but that's not available even on amazon on tape. any suggestions for a good, well-written, and fairly general history on anything (except too much about america - which i've already studied a fair amount about) that i can find? i don't really know where to start looking. thanks

I was quite fond of The Professor and the Madman by Simon Winchester, and his The Map that Changed the World. Both are British history, accessible, and interesting, if superficial. Beyond that, The Killer Angels is on audio, if the US Civil War is an interest. The Botany of Desire is also on audio, and that's botany, history, and science but popular and interesting. Geogre 14:57, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

thanks so much. i'll look into them all

Online Streaming of english music

Can you give me the site names which offer online buffering/streaming for listening to english songs with out downloading on to the harddisk?

Thank you

see List of Internet stations Nowimnthing 13:47, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Do you mean songs written with English language lyrics or songs originating in England ? StuRat 18:16, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Hey! You just asked this question at the Science desk! — The Mac Davis] ⌇☢ ญƛ. 09:40, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Protecting one's intellectual property during negotiations

If I got a good idea, which hasn't been published before, how would I go about negotiating a deal with a potential collaborator, a potential employer, or a funding agency? With a funding agency, a confidentiality agreement might suffice. But, how do we ensure that the earlier two don't claim post facto that they had this idea even before I told them? (Assume that I'm not in a position to patent it without collaboration.) -- Sundar ^{\talk \contribs} 12:28, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

With the usual "I'm not a lawyer, you're not my client and this is not legal advice" disclaimer.... Short of a patent or some sort of binding contract before disclosure, there is no way to garentee anything. My advice is to find a good Intellectual Property lawyer. --CTSWyneken 12:53, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Right. The usual practice is to have the other party sign an NDA. If the other party claims they had the idea earlier, they must show that, or at least make it sufficiently plausible, should it come to a court case. This is not legal advice. In fact, I don't know what I'm talking about. Sorry, my cat leapt on the keyboard, I didn't even type this. --Lambiam^Talk 17:56, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

There are some ways. One is to mail yourself a sealed copy of the idea. The postmark provided by the Post Office proves the date and, as long as it remains sealed, the contents must be older than that date. If you break the seal (anywhere other than in court and/or before witnesses), however, this method no longer proves anything. Another method is to have a notary public sign and date the papers, which proves their age. StuRat 18:10, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

The "mail yourself a sealed copy" is a popular notion, but it's completely wrong. See Snopes on the "Poor Man's Copyright" (I know we're talking about patents and not copyrights here, but it's just as wrong.) It's easy to see that having a postmarked envelope is not proof of anything, anyway: imagine mailing yourself an unsealed envelope (which the post office will deliver just fine); then you have an envelope with a postmark of the desired date, and you could put anything you like in it at a later date. Chuck 17:03, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

I see your point. This would require that you mail yourself an unsealed envelope (maybe you mail yourself one every day ?) just in case you find out about a non-copyrighted idea that you can then steal and claim as your own. But, I suppose some people might be crazy enough to do just this. So, OK, stick with the notary public then. StuRat 22:11, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks all for useful advice. And yes, I know that it's not legal advice. :-) -- Sundar ^{\talk \contribs} 06:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

And you better hope said lawyer isn't a Marxist. Pckeffer

Let me be careful about this. :-) -- Sundar ^{\talk \contribs} 06:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Poker

According to my understanding of poker; say everyone has 10 chips. One person wins the four chips that all four players put into the pot. Now they have 13 chips they are able to raise the pot to 13 chips while everyone else can only reach 9 and therefore are force to forfeit every time. Surely there must be a rule against this otherwise the first person to win more chips than everyone else has won fullstop.

Well, there's usually an upper limit to the size of bets allowed. But even if there weren't, another player could still win the pile by going "all in", risking all of his chips against the possibility of doubling them. GeeJo ^(t)⁄_(c) • 14:48, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

The questioner is describing pot limit, in which the limit is indeed the size of the pot. If one has too few chips to call an entire bet, they can always go all in, regardless of whether the game is limit, pot limit, or no limit. When doing so, one can do considerably better than doubling their stack if there are more than two players in the pot, as described here. There's never a "forfeit because you don't have enough chips to call", as far as I know. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 17:30, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

See Betting (poker)#Table_stakes_rules. In the case you described, if one of the players decided to go all in and wins, the player who had bet 13 will get his 3 extra chips back. In other words, the Table stakes for the player with the most chips are always the number of chips that the second players with the most chips has. VdSV9•♫ 18:48, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

In Las Vegas,if you die during a hand ,you are declared "all in"This is true!hotclaws**==(81.136.163.210 21:32, 3 June 2006 (UTC))

Question for Roman Catholics on mortal sin

It sometimes seems to me that my head, my thoughts, my intellectual distractions are attempting to interrumpt my prayer; does my mind give deliberate and complete consent to these distractive thoughts? If some of these thoughts constitute blasphemy is it mortal sin?

Thank you,

--anon 16:12, 3 June 2006 (UTC).

Your question raises deep philosophical, moral and religious issues, such as the existence of free will, the possibility of being possessed by demons, what constitutes blasphemy, and the meaning and extent of the doctrine of the Holy Church concerning mortal sin. The heading of this page states: If requesting medical, dental, or legal advice, please consider asking a doctor, dentist, or lawyer instead. Perhaps this should be extended to requests for religious advice. Most devote Roman Catholics are not particularly knowledgeable about these issues. Personally I'd say: if you experience these distractions as such, it is hard to construe this as "deliberate and complete consent". Further, most instances of blasphemy are not "grave matter". This has little to do with whether this interrupts your prayer. Just to be on the safe side, make sure you repent before you die. --Lambiam^Talk 17:44, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Read St.Theresa of Liseaux on this .She is both practical and comforting.--hotclaws**==(81.136.163.210 21:33, 3 June 2006 (UTC))

The general distinction between mortal and venal sin is will. If you will to sin, it is a mortal sin. A thought that flits by is nothing. Something that you consent to is something involving will. Geogre 20:45, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Wet dreams are not considered a sin since they are beyond the scope of freewill. Although people can control what they think about, if you're trying not to think about something, you're going to think about it. Just relax, God understands that you're trying your best. --mboverload@ 05:31, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Just relax, God understands that you're trying your best. How comforting. Now I know where religion comes from. — The Mac Davis] ⌇☢ ญƛ. 09:39, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

If you're not answering the question, please don't try to hijack the discussion, and remember WP:NPA. Geogre 19:20, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Dear anon., your life is your prayer, your thoughts are your prayer. Do as McDavis tells, just relax. --DLL 22:10, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Milton, while not Catholic, might as well have been when he wrote, "Yet be not sad: Evil into the mind of God or Man May come and go, so unapproved, and leave No spot or blame behind; which gives me hope That what in sleep thou didst abhor to dream Waking thou never wilt consent to do." - Nunh-huh 22:13, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

• Is distraction at prayer a sin? Only if it is willed — that one desires to be distracted rather than to pray.
• Is distraction at prayer a mortal sin? Perhaps your blasphemy is extraordinary. That term is defined in the Catechism of the Catholic Church para. 2148. The term mortal sin is defined in CCC 1857. A solution might be to simply pray only when your desire to pray is greater than your desire to be distracted. patsw 01:55, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

How easy is it to hijack an airplane?

Right now, in June 2006, how hard is it to hijack a commercial airplane in New York and fly it into the white house? When I thought about it, the 9/11 attacks seemed amazingly easy to carry out: just enter the cockpit door, throw everyone in there outside, lock the door, and fly the airplane. I'm guessing that it wouldn't be so easy after 9/11. --Bowlhover 18:40, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

You'd first of all have to learn how to fly a plane, of course, and flight schools would be a bit suspicious if you weren't too interested in learning how to land. You'd probably face stricter security checks into your background, both as a trainee pilot and as a passenger. You'd have a harder time smuggling weapons onto the plane, and you'd face the possibility of there being an air marshal on board. If you managed to overcome these obstacles, the USAF might be a bit quicker in intercepting your flight, and attempting to force you to land. If unsuccessful, the powers that be would have little hesitation in ordering that your plane be shot down. TheMadBaron 19:14, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

see Airport security and Airport security repercussions due to the September 11, 2001 attacks. Nowimnthing 19:15, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

There are many levels to this question. First, it depends on the country the plane is comming from, as security is different for each country. Next, you also have to learn to fly a plane, though you can still suck at it as you're not planning on landing. Next, you need some way to keep the passengers out and pacified for a very long duration depending on the distance you have to travel. I don't consider security measures on the ground to be much of a threat, a nice metal pen is probably more dangerous than a tiny box cutter. --mboverload@ 19:33, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

If you are in the US, it is a lot harder, as the links User:Nowimnthing gives point out. For one thing, cockpit doors are usually sealed pretty securely at this point, so you'd have a hard time getting into it. --Fastfission 21:14, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

A big difference between 9/11 and now that I didn't see mentioned is the passengers. Before 9/11, the attitude was, "Well, we're going to be really delayed, but maybe we can sell our story to some tabloid." Now, it is, "We'll kill these hijakers before they try to fly us into some building." --Kainaw ^(talk) 23:38, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Damn right. What the point of not fighting back if you're going to die if you don't? --mboverload@ 23:47, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

In fact, it has been said that is by far the biggest difference between pre and post 9/11 hijacking security. The rest is to a substantial extent security theater. --Robert Merkel 01:30, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

To Mboverload: I have a few reasons. The hijackers might cut off the oxygen supply, and suffocating is more painful than crashing into a building. Also, how are you going to break into the cockpit? You can't just crash a food cart into the door and hope it would open, like the United 93 passengers did.

If I'm a hijacker, breaking into the cockpit door might be a problem. But not letting me carry a box-cutter knife on board is not: I can improvise with my camera's small tripod.

I'm interested in what TheMadBaron said about the USAF. How will they know where the hijacked plane is? How will they even know that a plane has been hijacked? (Maybe the passengers can call using the onboard phones, but can't those phones be deactivated?) What if I take over a flight whose intended destination is the U.S. capital, and then turn toward the white house, literally at the last minute? --Bowlhover 01:50, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

I was assuming a deviation from the intended flightpath being detected on radar. Even so, you'd still face the problem of those cockpit doors.... opening them in such a way that the pilots don't first notice a disruption in the cabin area.... and notify ground controllers.... who notify authorities.... who notify the USAF.... TheMadBaron 10:30, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

My response, turning off the "air supply" from within the aircraft is probably impossible. If the mass of people can't get into a cockpit, a small group of terrorists certainly couldn't unless they brought along some kind of cutting tool...not sure how compact those are. Actually I'm pretty sure suffacating isn't that bad if you don't fight it (you'll pass out first anyway). I know there's no pain involved. --mboverload@ 05:29, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

I thought cutting off the air supply is impossible, too. But according to our article on United Airlines Flight 93, the terrorists were talking about whether they should do it, and I assumed they knew what they were talking about.

By my understanding, the terrorists were discussing dumping the cabin pressurization, that is to say, equalizing the air pressure inside with the air pressure outside. When that happens, the oxygen masks in the cabin deploy automatically, and oxygen starts being generated as soon as they are put to use. Below about 12,000 feet, many passengers can function without oxygen, but, above that, the need for the oxygen masks will limit their mobility. Cabin crewmembers are provided with walkaround oxygen bottles, instead of the fixed masks provided for passengers. At high enough altitudes (jets routinely carry passengers above 40,000 feet), useful consciousness is less than a minute, which is why FAA requires that flight decks have special oxygen masks & that, above a certain altitude, if one flight crewmember leaves the flightdeck, the other goes on oxygen until his or her return. In the passenger cabin, on-board oxygen generators are typically good for 30 minutes, so it would still be possible, however, for a hijacker to "run out the clock" on his passengers by waiting for the oxygen supply to be exhausted.--Ssbohio 16:55, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Right now, how long will the USAF take to respond to a hijacking? If I hijack a plane and then crash it only 2 minutes later, will they have time to realize what's going on? I know this is pure speculation, but... --Bowlhover 13:59, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

....But this is getting silly. The stated objective was to fly into a specific target. A hijacker is not going to be able to reach a specific building in two minutes. I don't know what the USAF response time would be, but I do know that some of their planes are a lot faster and more maneuverable than commercial jet aircraft, and their pilots a lot better trained than your average hijacker. I'm not saying that it couldn't be done.... but in two minutes? No. TheMadBaron 22:02, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, the distance between Washington D.C.'s airport and the white house is only 2 km. Considering that a plane flying at 800 km/h travels 13.3 km per minute, the terrorists won't take very long to complete their mission if they turn at the last minute. --Bowlhover 03:39, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Has it occured to you that, at those speeds, there's very little margin for error? That's why airports, and runways, are BIG. TheMadBaron 22:07, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

The passengers would take you down immediately, since 11-9-2001. — The Mac Davis] ⌇☢ ญƛ. 09:37, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

This is pure speculation. It would depend on the nature of the passengers, the nature of the weapons available to them and to the highjackers, and their relative skills. Would you tackle a hijacker with a pistol? Or holding a knife to the throat of a child? TheMadBaron 10:30, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Don't forget, during the flight, the captain would be in frequent and at times near constant communication with the tower. If the pilot suddenly stopped responding and the plane changed path, that would be a pretty obvious sign, since Radar can track the plane's path. smurrayinchester^{(User), (Talk)} 10:20, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

As another editor mentioned above, there is a real possibility in Washington, DC of an approaching aircraft diverging from course at the last minute. For that reason, locations like the White House, Capitol, Pentagon, & Camp David have long been thought to have anti-aircraft capability. Washington, like New York, Boston, San Diego, and several other large cities, has a downtown airport, placing many flight paths very close to the kind of buildings we see (post 9/11) as terrorist targets. In the event of an onboard emergency, flight crews can alert those on the ground by radio, or by dialing in a special code on the aircraft's radar transponder. However, it's important to note that, due to budgetary considerations, fewer eyes are watching our skies than before, and primary radar (the kind that can detect aircraft flying without transponders) is not being installed & upgraded as it used to be. Combined with continuing decreases in our military ability to respond quickly to hostile aircraft, it's mostly down to either ground detection & denied boarding or to the passengers in the air to stop whatever is going on.--Ssbohio 16:55, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

book about tower blocks that fall down?

I'm trying to remember a horror story about a man who deliberatly designs a pair of tower blocks joined by walkways to collapse when a strong enough wind blew.It was set in late 60's??? Britain during all the clearing away of terraced houses.The twist was it also was supposed to address the problem of ethnic trouble and one tower block was filled with whites and one with blacks and they were meant to mingle on the walkways.(I lived in a "streets in the sky" ,the walkways were where the criminals hung out) Anyway he was a racist and particularly hated the idea of the races mixing.As you can see,I remember it pretty well,just not the author or the title.Any help gratefully received.hotclaws**==

Rebuidling of Kerch, Ukraine after WWII

What country paid for the rebuilding of Kirch, Ukraine, in the Crimea after the Nazis and Soviets bombed it during World War 2.

Thank you for your help!!

Deborah Shaut

Did the German Jewish Philosopher Ernst Cassirer have any writings or opinions about Judaism?

The most logical guess would be the US. Under the Marshall Plan, the US pledged to give billions of dollars to Europe to help rebuild after the war. Political Mind 00:19, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Not likely. The Soviet Bloc did not participate in the Marshall Plan. -- Mwalcoff 02:33, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

It would almost certainly have been done by the Soviet government, though the money might have come from the reparations extracted from the Axis nations that came under Soviet control. - SimonP 16:18, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

June 4

Looking for a good King James Bible...

But I'm viscerally averse to it being couched in any sort of religious setting, with running theological (rather than academic) annotations or grandiose claims of divine authority (not to mention alterations of the source for various reasons, etc). That is, I want one aimed at people reading from a comparative literature standpoint, preferably assuming religious apathy; or, at the very least, one from a non-sectarian, least-common-denominator sort of view. Can anyone help me out? --Tothebarricades 00:11, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

It IS a Bible, so I'm not sure you're going to be able to find a non-religious version. When I studied it, though (for sort of half-religious-half-com-lit reasons), I was asked to buy the The New Oxford Annotated (I don't think you'll be able to avoid annotations)Bible. Just don't read the opener or the comments, though the comments really are helpful to general understanding anyway. I'm not really sure that what you're looking for exists, or even, given the usefulness of comments to even the non-religious reader, what you're looking for.

As the above person says, the New Oxford is a good one for scholarly/literary emendations, but its text is NSV, not KJV. As for its not being religious.... Well, you can get a KJV with no emendations at all. Other than that, all the footnote work is going to explain things in their context of the religion. Geogre 04:29, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

are bibles like the oxford's revised standard from an entirely different source? i mean i know they've got the same books, but are they from a pre-1611 (is that the right date) translation, indirectly from a language other than latin or...?

No, not at all. The New Oxford uses the Revised Standard Version, with some updates (hence the New Standard Version or New Revised Standard Edition). Of the common translations found in English, the 1611 King James was a full translation (although they did crib from Tyndale). The New Jersusalem Bible is a translation that was worked to be in basic agreement with the Vulgate and is used by the Roman Catholic Church in English. Then the Revised Standard. After that, full translations have been rather rare. It was a major undertaking for the New English Bible, which was an official Church of England translation meant to replace the KJV. However, almost all sides condemn it as flat and boring. True translations, as opposed to revisions and paraphrases, are understandably uncommon. Geogre 16:19, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

"True" translations from the original sources are not that rare. See English translations of the Bible and Modern English Bible translations for several more examples (including the New Living Translation, New International Version, Good News Translation, Anchor Bible, etc.) Rmhermen 22:34, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Umm, I've now read the article Modern English Bible translations, and it has quite a few errors in it, including not recognizing the difference between a translation from Hebrew and Greek and a translation from English to English (which would normally be called a paraphrase). It's also missing, for example, the NEB. I don't want to toss sand at anyone, but, well, it needs some citation, some research, and some balance, as i think it reflects a somewhat evangelical view. Nothing wrong with such a view, but it can be partial. Geogre 17:58, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Geogre, we need a critical eye like yours at Wikipedia:WikiProject Bible. Also, a quick search reveals an "NEB" in the Other major versions section. --J. J. 19:05, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Possibly not exactly what you are looking for, but Isaac Asimov, who was not a religious person, has written an excellent guide to the Bible. --vibo56 10:39, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Are you sure? The Living Bible was a paraphrase. The Good News Bible was RSV. Anchor...I thought that was RSV as well. Maybe each of these endeavors has since gone on to translate and I'm out of the loop. (Also, there is a bit of a trick here, as a good many will do a partial translation. They'll translated the New Testament from koine, but they won't do the textual work of comparing sources and establishing authorities, and they definitely won't do the Hebrew again. They may therefore call themselves a new translation and be telling the truth, partially. A serious and full translation is rare enough that it tends to make the papers and take a long, long time.) Geogre 03:38, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

From our article "In North America it was formerly known as Today's English Version (TEV) but in 2001 was renamed the Good News Translation because of misconceptions that it was merely a paraphrase and not a genuine translation [1]." Skittle 11:11, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Penguin are about to publish the bible[2]. Is there any more secular animal then a pengiun? MeltBanana 18:08, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

About to republish the KJV. Rmhermen 22:34, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, you see, I have Oxford's NSRV, and I enjoy it a great deal. But it lacks the lyrical grandeur of the King James translation. So I was looking for a similarly academic KJV; I'm surprised there aren't (m)any, considering the importance of the text to English literature! I'll have add that to my list of life goals. The penguin is exciting, though I hope they aren't foolhardy enough to make it a novel-sized ultra-thick paperback. Thanks guys --Tothebarricades 03:32, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

I just found a Cambridge University Press edition that seems pretty secular via some Wiki article. For anyone else having the same problem as me: http://www.cambridge.org/uk/bibles/info/ --Tothebarricades 03:40, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

That upcoming Penguin version is basically just a reprint of the New Cambridge Paragraph Bible which was published in March 2005. Is this the one you're referring to? While the scholarship looks excellent on it, note that this edition doesn't italicize the original "supplied words" as the 1611 is traditionally formatted. See the mentioned A Textual History of the King James Bible for reasons why. --J. J. 19:05, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Figurine

I recently bought a wooden carving (approx. 3 inches tall) of a man sitting cross-legged, with his hands resting in his lap and his face buried in his hands. His only clothing is some sort of loincloth and he is shaven headed.

I got him second-hand from a charity shop so have no idea who or what he represents, but after getting him I found out my mother had bought an identical, but somewhat smaller carving elsewhere and given it to someone as a present. However, my mother knows nothing about him either, although he clearly can't be that uncommon.

Can anyone tell me who or what he is? Is he praying, having a revelation, in deepest despair or just washing his face?

Many thanks, T.C.

We need some more description here, what does he look like? Like this? [3] but that one isn't sitting. hmmm. Nowimnthing 00:43, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Maybe they are more common than you think. I've seen plenty of these in "ethnic"-type giftshops. I don't think it's intended to be anyone in particular. Just something a bit different.--Shantavira 07:07, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Solitaire

Is there an organization specifically devoted to studying/developing games of Solitaire ("Patience")?

I think the idea is to go it alone, bud.

Patience Strong is one of Britain's most famous poets. --DLL 22:05, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Little Red Rooster

On what album and in what year did the Rolling Stones record Howlin' Wolf's "Little Red Rooster"? Pckeffer

The Rolling Stones, Now! - their third album. 1965 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.252.1.47 (talk)

For which our article can be found here... Joe 19:41, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

It's ladies night and the feeling's right...

What is "ladies night"? --Username132 (talk) 01:22, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

It's a marketing tactic used at nightclubs and bars. Typically, ladies will be let in at discounted rates, or even free, and will also often be offered cheaper or free drinks. As every nightclub owner knows, the key to getting (heterosexual) men into nightclubs is getting women into them first. --Robert Merkel 01:28, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

I think in terms of the song lyric quoted, the idea is that the raubriter bachelors are especially happy to be in the bar on lady's night, and this one is feeling particularly on top of his game. Geogre 16:15, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

For interest, the lyric is from a disco song by Kool and The Gang, and was covered in 2003 by British girl group Atomic Kitten. --Robert Merkel 03:48, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Is this legal? It seems like discrmination to me. 199.201.168.100 19:00, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

No, don't be so pathetically PC. Philc _T^E_C^I 19:10, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

I gather a few places have been challenged, but I don't recall the results. Certainly I know many men/boys/guys who are not happy with it and feel discriminated against. But I go to places that don't have trouble attracting women. I'd say if your place is only attracting men to the extent that you have to run a 'Ladies' Night' to correct it, you're doing something wrong. Unless you mean it only to attract men, in which case why are you running a Ladies Night? And nobody would stand for it the other way 'round. Skittle 20:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

What does "raubriter" mean? Geogre? Anybody? JackofOz 21:07, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Template:Lan Raubritter means literally "robber knight", less literally "robber baron". --Lambiam^Talk 22:20, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I was having a little fun and being a little literary. Sorry I didn't check back and see that I had thrown a curve ball. I wanted to call them ronin, but I couldn't remember how to spell it. :-) Geogre 12:31, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Oh. OK, tks. JackofOz 20:50, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Pompeii

hello, does any one know the key features of the Baths at Pompeii, its purpose and main functions (Not Herculaneum Not Roman Baths) or have any references.. THanks

We'll try to help but first could you explain the difference between Baths at Pompeii and Roman Baths? alteripse 02:55, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Pompeii is 200 km southeast of Rome, for one thing. -lethe ^{talk +} 07:12, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, but Roman baths (or "Thermae") refers to a style rather than a location. GeeJo ^(t)⁄_(c) • 09:24, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Aren't the "purpose and main functions" the same as for all baths, everywhere? As for the key features, have you tried the official website here? --Shantavira 11:41, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Try also this. --Brand спойт 14:40, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

to state the obvious, the baths are like turkish baths, sauna, socializing, etc. not so much for just washing up.

The difference is that, im looking at Pompeii Baths, which ARENT in Rome, but have Roman influence, Pompeii baths are established as much as roman...i would also appreciate, if anyone could give reference to modern scholars about my topic.. thank you

They may not be in Rome, but they are still considered Roman baths and hence their main features and functions are the same as other Roman baths, such as those in Bath (England). Skittle 10:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Roman baths here means 'baths used by the Romans', not 'baths in Rome'. DJ Clayworth 16:33, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

fixing wikipedia

Question moved to the Help Desk. Sandstein 05:33, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

About the types of Angry Young Men, urgent please

Could you give me a non wikepedia based source on the following groupings, also important who were the commentators? From the "Angry Young Men" article: Sorry but since you seem to be the user who wrote this could you please tell me where you got this and who the commentators are? And Again I'm sorry but could you answer me as fast as possible, I need the info very soon. from the "Angry Young Men" article: "Some commentators, following publisher Tom Maschler, who edited a collection of political-literary essays by the "Angries" (Declaration, 1957), divided them into three groups:

The New University Wits (a term applied by William Van O'Connor in his 1963 study The New University Wits and the End of Modernism), Oxbridge malcontents who explored the contrast between their upper-class university privilege and their middle-class upbringings. They included Kingsley Amis, Philip Larkin, and John Wain, all of whom were also part of the poetic circle known as The Movement. Writers mostly of lower-class origin concerned with their political and economic aspirations. Some of these were left-wing and some were right-wing. They included John Osborne (whose play Look Back in Anger is a basic "Angries" text), Harold Pinter, John Braine, and Alan Sillitoe. William Cooper, the early model AYM, though Cambridge-educated was a "provincial" writer in his frankness and material and is included in this group. A small group of young existentialist philosophers led by Colin Wilson and also including Stuart Holroyd and Bill Hopkins. " Answer me on my user page, rtaycher1987, please Roman Taycher --rtaycher1987 10:22, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

chinese name

How is : Ho-Shang Kung written in taditional chinese ? ( He is a famous writer if a Tao Te Ching commentary ) Hhnnrr 12:20, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

It is 河上公. --Cam 19:04, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

It's the same in simplified Chinese. --Cam 19:10, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Suburanus

Was Sextus Attius Suburanus Aemilianus the praetorian prefect under Trajan or the prefect just had the same cognomen? Thanks. --Brand спойт 14:37, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

The text at this link: [4] claims that according to Aurelius Victor the praetorian prefect was indeed Sextus Attius Suburanus. --Lambiam^Talk 14:21, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

What is that dress?

I remember I found an article about a special designer dress that is very famous, which is meant to really emphasise someone's figure. It was worn by Victoria Beckham, and was made by a really famous fashion designer. I can't remember what it was called though! Please reply on my talk page. Thanks! --Rushda2 15:43, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Victoria Beckham wears a different designer dress for every public occasion. Try going to the Victoria Beckham article, and click on "What links here" in the box on the left. This will give you a list of all the articles that mention her, which includes several dress designers, such as Vera Wang and Roberto Cavalli. Perhaps you will find what you are looking for there. --Shantavira 18:43, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

You're not thinking of Elizabeth Hurley, are you? She wore a really famous dress once, made by Versace. There's a picture of her wearing it on this page. --Richardrj 19:26, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Mmmm. Thanks for that link :) Grutness...wha? 06:55, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Median Adult Income in USA

This may seem like an easy question, but it wasn't for me, so I'd appreciate any help: What is the median annual income for an adult in the USA? Please note that I don't want the median household income or the median income for adults employed full-time. Thanks again. Superm401 - Talk 15:56, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

I found a result of $24,084 at [5]. It would be good to have a second opinion in case I'm misinterpreting that statistic, though. Superm401 - Talk 16:12, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

I could only find median family income about 8-10 months ago, which was 52,000 US. (I think the value of a buck might have changed significantly since then.) I couldn't find per-capita average income (which I was looking for) but made do. Actually I can see why median family income might be more useful. anyway here's a link 82.131.186.217 20:49, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

1920s/1930s play in rhyming couplets.

As a boy in the 1970s I came by accident across a play that was definitely from the 1920s or 1930s. While the book had a library buckram binding that was added, it was originally a thin performing copy published by one of the play publishing companies.

I may be a little hazy on details, but I'm pretty sure the play is set in a train station on Christmas Eve or New Year's Eve.

It had more than one act, maybe two or three, and was an elegiacal play full of reverie and lost romance. I believe a conventional young couple discovers they truly love each other.

But the most certain thing that I remember was that the play was set in rhyming couplets. It reads very naturalistically, and then you realize, oh, my god, this is all in rhyming couplets.

I wish I'd kept my copy, but I got rid of it years ago. Every year or so, I try to think who might have written it. I think it was a "known" talent, but I can never find any clue online. There are well-known playwrights and humorists and satirists and poets who did plays in rhyming couplets, but no details ever turn up that would indicate the title of my play and its author.

I hope someone out there can figure out the play and its author.

Thanks.

Eve's stallion

A play in one act and two rhymes.

Joachim - I'm wainting for the train.

Oz - I hope that it won't rain.

Train - approaches and whistles.

Seller - how are the sales ? --DLL 21:57, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

On a request by Zarkov : "I hereby agree to dual-license this contributed text both under the GFDL and the Creative Commons Attribution Share-Alike license version 2.5." Anyway, traduttore, tradittore, as my Dutch friends say. --DLL 20:09, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

If you're willing to put this under a license that's more handy than the GFDL, I'll translate it into German and publish it in an underground magazine. Eternal fame is waiting for you. How about it? --Dr. Zarkov 23:27, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

• I'd guess, if you wanted to really find it and didn't mind the pain, you could look through the Current Theater in The New Yorker from the decade in question (supposing it opened on Broadway). Broadway was incredibly prolific back then, compared to our standards today. (These days, all theaters combined may put on 10 shows. When Benchley and Parker were reviewing, it seems like they had at least one opening a week.) Geogre 03:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Deadly historical cultural exchange

Does anybody know the comparative number of deaths caused by the tobacco/alcohol exchange since first contact between Europeans/NA Indians?

Namely, how many people of European decent have died from tobacco related causes versus the number of people of NA Indian decent who have died from alcohol related causes since first contact was established? Angel Thane 23:33, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Interesting concept, but I can't think how anyone could compute either statistic with much accuracy. Most alcohol related deaths are not the result of direct intoxication but of impaired function, either acutely or chronically, and are rarely recorded as related to alcohol. Most smoking deaths are related to heart and lung disease or cancer, but I have seen statistics over the years which purport to count American deaths related to smoking, but you would have to make lots and lots of unsubstantiatable guesses to extrapolate even those statistics backward a century or globally. And both types of carnage continue... alteripse 02:27, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Certainly it's a tough thing to calculate - if it wasn't, I wouldn't need to ask here. ;) For the record, I would be perfectly inclined to count DWI related deaths under the alcohol rubric. I've a feeling that the European/smoking deaths would be higher than the NA Indian/alcohol deaths, if only because of the greater population numbers of the former, but I would love to find any sort of ballpark estimations. Angel Thane 04:30, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

DWI is obvious, but alcohol contributes to most fatal brawls and shootings that are not simply robberies or drug business. Suicide? How about RHWI (riding horse while intoxicated)? Do you want to count reduction of population because of children not born-- not relevant to tobacco, but perhaps not negligible as a general contributor toward the low indian birth rate? And on the other side, how about the coming Chinese epidemic of smoking-related deaths. It is barely getting started. Do you count them as part of the "European score" or just collateral damage? alteripse 04:48, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

• Very, very difficult to calculate. 95% of Indians died before they had a chance to sip alcohol because contagious diseases accompanied, or even preceded, almost every First Contact (see Guns, Germs, & Steel.)--M@rēino 20:58, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

June 5

Biblio Entry

I was wondering if anybody knows what the MLA format bibliography entries would be for http://www.alchemylab.com, http://mathworld.wolfram.com/DuerersMagicSquare.html, and http://mv.vatican.va/3_EN/pages/x-Schede/SDRs/SDRs_03_02_020.html, excepting the date of acess? Aleph2.0 01:59, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

I found this page which may be of help. Scroll down to "World Wide Web sites and sources." --Cam 05:02, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

I always tell folks to go to the Online Writing Lab (OWL) at Purdue University. It's the best online guide to college writing I've seen, and they do great work, there, in linking and drilling. Great source. (Google "OWL" and "Purdue," and you should get there immediately.) Geogre 16:32, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Insider trading (US)

What laws are there on insider trading on mercentile exchanges such as NYMEX or ICE. For example, let's say I'm a corrupt officer at a large oil company, and I force refineries/pipelines down simultaneously to give the impression of major disruption. Beforehand though I purchase many contracts, before then selling as the price spikes. Would this be illegal? The Insider trading article seems to suggest laws are only applied to securities such as stocks and bonds. Jim.

I'm not 100% familiar with American securities law, but I do know quite a bit about Canadian law on the matter. Yet from what I understand, securities law between our two countries tends to follow a pretty much identical set of principles. Also note that up here, securities law is a provincial jurisdiction, while the American SEC is a federal body, yet each province's legislation tends to follow the same basic set of principles. With that in mind, I'm pretty certain that what I'm about to say would be the law in the US, but I can't guarantee it with 100% confidence.

That said, your question seems to have two components. First off, the particular exchange you're dealing with is irrelevant. Insider trading rules apply to all exchanges. It's not, for example, the NYSE that makes up the rules on insider trading, but rather the SEC, which would have jurisdiction over every possible exchange.

Second, the definition of a "security" in securities law is very broad. It covers not only stocks and bonds, but a long list of pretty much anything that can even loosely be described as a "security", which would include such things as options, futures (which are essentially contracts) as well as the type of contract you describe.

So basically, my answer would be that, barring any substantial difference in our two countries securities laws, yes, what you're describing would definitely be just as illegal as insider trading of stocks and bonds.

If you want to be absolutely certain, though, I suggest you find the relevant legislation, go directly to the "definitions" section, find the word "security" and you'd almost undoubtedly find an extremely long list of everything and anything that would be considered a security. Loomis51 13:34, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

If I trade my apple for your dollar, having the "inside knowledge" that it is full of worms, I'm sure the SEC does not have jurisdiction over that exchange. Only if it involves securities. Contracts in general are not securities. --Lambiam^Talk 14:29, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

• The relevant U.S. federal law is 2006 CFR Title 17, and can be found here. (I believe 17CFR1.59 may be most relevant.) In short, U.S. law prohibits insider trading of commodities/futures -- exchanges which are monitored by the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC). What is generally prohibited is "employees, governing board members, and committee members from trading commodity interests on the basis of material, non-public information obtained in the course of their official duties," which seems to me to be exactly what you're describing. --DavidGC 15:03, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks David, for finding the particular legislation. As for your comment, Lambiam, the statement that "contracts in general are not securities" is quite simply untrue. If it were true, then the exchange of such things as, for example, options, (which are essentially nothing more than contracts,) with insider knowledge, would be completely legal. Since it would be legal, and since it's just as easy to benefit from insider knowledge by trading in an option as it is in trading in the underlying security, the law would essentially be providing a gigantic loophole within which insider trading can be accomplished without breaking any law.

When people say something like: "While meetings in general are a waste of time, some are worse than others," they don't mean that all meetings are a waste of time, just that they generally are. "In general" or "generally" means: "for the most part", "in a general manner", "in disregard of specific instances and with regard to an overall picture" (e.g. as in "generally speaking"), "as a rule", "usually". So "Contracts in general are not securities" is another way of saying: "Although contracts may be securities, usually they are not." I think that is true. An NDA for instance is a legal contract but not a security. --Lambiam^Talk 22:41, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Lambiam, originally you clearly came to the conclusion that trading in the type of contract in question with insider knowledge is not insider trading. Why else would you first present the example of the "wormy apple" sales contract as not being within the jurisdiction of the SEC, and then point out that "contracts in general are not securities"? As it turns out, (thanks to David for providing the precise legislation,) you were wrong in believing that such a transaction would not be considered insider trading.

I still maintain that the statement that "contracts in general are not securities" is untrue. I only chose to use an options contract because it was the simplest form of explaining my point. In fact, however, a vast array of contracts are capable of being classified as securities in US securities law. The list of contracts that can be characterized as securities is seemingly endless, but I'll try to list as many as can come to mind: Options, futures, mortgage contracts, contracts for royalties, warrants, profit-sharing contracts, lease contracts, income or annuity contracts etc etc etc... Clearly, one cannot make such a sweeping statement as: "contracts in general are not securities", as, it would appear, almost the opposite claim can be made, that being: "contracts, in general, in a vast array of situtations can be regarded as securities". Loomis51 01:20, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

In any case, since David found the relevant legislation, it's unnecessary to explain the whole thing any further. The activity in question that the questioner described would indeed be considered insider trading, and, therefore, illegal under US law. Loomis51 15:52, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Note that Enron did something quite similar to your scenario. I'm not sure if any of their convictions were for intentionally causing supply disruptions to increase prices, however. StuRat 21:58, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

The definition of securities is quite broad: it's an abstraction of the evidence that one has a current or future claim to cash, goods, services, ownership, or other securities. For the sake of simplicity, most people refer to securities which are transferable, marketable, and fungible. Selling a particular apple now for cash doesn't create a security. But these examples create a security:

• Selling an apple now to be delivered in the future (i.e. where one or both sides of the trade have an obligation to buy or to sell)
• Sell the apple now with an obligation to pay for it in the future.

Also, the cite to 17CFR1.59 is only relevant to the employees of the Exchanges where these securities are traded, and not relevant not to the proverbial corrupt officer at a large oil company who wouldn't be an employee of the exchange. As evident from the Enron convictions, securities fraud is a real crime. However, some manipulation of markets is legal, see the Silver Thursday article. patsw 04:05, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Geography

What are the geological processes involved in the formation of a rock platform and a "tied Island"?

try Landform Nowimnthing 12:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Capital crimes in the People's Republic of China

What are the capital crimes in the People's Republic of China? Vess

Try our article, Capital punishment in China. Murder, financial fraud, treason, drug offenses are some of them. Rmhermen 15:08, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Distribution of Condoms in Schools

Is there any information on Wikipedia or any other place that discusses arguments for and against providing condoms in public schools?

--163.153.132.5 14:05, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Try [6] and [7], use the references to dig further. Nowimnthing 17:48, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Painting

http://img217.imageshack.us/my.php?image=200xk.jpg

Would someone kindly tell me the name of this painting.Thanks.

It's a blue rider. By Wassily Kandinsky. Gave its name to a german art movement. Didn't get paid for it. --DLL 21:46, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

See also Der Blaue Reiter. Grutness...wha? 02:58, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

They're just too easy now. No challenge. Tyrenius 03:16, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

heh. don't worry - there'll be more to get us scratching our heads soon enough! Grutness...wha? 05:56, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Judicial Systems

Are there any remarkable differences in the structure of the British Judicial System and American Judicial systems?

Jesica**___

From Jury

Selected jurors are generally subjected to a system of examination whereby both the prosecution (or plaintiff, in a civil case) and defense can object to a juror ... The method and scope of the possible rejections varies between countries:

In England these objections would have to be very well based, such as the defendant knowing a potential juror, to be allowed. Some jurisdictions, such as ... the United States, give both the defense and prosecution a specific number of unconditional peremptory challenges. No justifications have to be brought to exclude a specific juror. Generally, defense attorneys exclude jurors who have professions or backgrounds similar to that of the victim and who could thus feel an emotional link to them, while prosecuting attorneys exclude jurors who might show affinity to the defendant. Some systems allow argument over whether a juror's particular background or beliefs make them biased and therefore unsuitable for service on the jury. In the United States, and probably other nations, it is hardly unknown for citizens to quite deliberately get out of jury duty (for example by mentioning knowledge of legal concepts).

I can look for more, or if you want a quick answer you could search Wikipedia yourself. Skittle 17:10, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Some other difference in the judicial structures are that in the U.S.A. lawyers are allowed to discuss the case at length with witnesses & prepare them for testimony, in the U.K. this is frowned upon & I think they're only allowed to talk once briefly with the witnesses before court.

Although it varies depending on the court or type of case I believe in the U.S.A. they require a unanimous jury vote for conviction, in the U.K. there is no requirement for the jury decision to be unanimous.

Referring to the British judicial system can be misleading as there are infact two systems: English Law and Scottish Law, A big difference from the U.S.A. is that Scottish law recognises 3 possible verdicts in a case rather than 2: guilty, not guilty and not proven. AllanHainey 12:19, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Sex

Why is sex considered such a taboo subject in many cutltures? It is something that occurs naturally and frequently (not in my life, but in nature). Why then do we censor the subject of sex and freak out if it is in a video game (like the recent San Andreas contraversy)? Why do annoying soccer moms and religious organisations lose their mind over things like Sex For Sam, and other such incidents? 12.183.203.184 18:07, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Study the history of religion. How do religions run by uptight old bald guys steal patrons from religions run by sexy women? --Kainaw ^(talk) 18:49, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

In evolutionary terms, it would probably be beneficial for sexual mates to keep secret who they are having relations with. Females protect their offspring because each male assumes the offspring to be his. Subordinate males get to secretly 'spread their seed' without attracting the ire of the lead male. From this general secrecy social customs evolve in different ways about anatomy related to the sexual act (even women's hair is considered taboo in some cultures) and discussion of sex. Nowimnthing 20:27, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Some animal mating systems proceed on principles of general "promiscuity" and uncertain paternity, but such systems have little correlation with secrecy, and have rather little relevance to humans. Chapter three of The Third Chimpanzee by Jared Diamond has a brief and relatively clear discussion. AnonMoos 21:53, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Uncertain paternity certainly has a large relation to secrecy among animals with hierarchical social organization. How else can subordinate males ever get to conceive offspring?

They don't! Isn't that the whole point of Darwinism and survival of the fittest? Loomis51 22:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Ahhh, but fittest in what? Sure the lead male may be the biggest and strongest, but he may not be the smartest or craftiest. Each of those can be affected in various ways by natural selection. On a side note the correct way to form natural selection is not "survival of the fittest" it is actually more like "survival of the not unfit" as it is only the truly unfit that do not pass on their genes, the modest ones do just fine. Nowimnthing 02:29, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

See Geary, David C. "Evolution of Human Mate Choice" Journal of Sex Research; Feb2004, Vol. 41 Issue 1, p27-42, 16p and Wallen, Kim. Hormones and History: The Evolution and Development of Primate Female Sexuality. Journal of Sex Research; Feb2004, Vol. 41 Issue 1, p101-112, 12p.

Another contributing factor is the purely social aspect of sex as it relates to group dynamics. In most other mammals females only mate during estrus. Humans do not display their estrous cycle externally and like Bonobos use sex for social reasons unrelated to procreation. Nowimnthing 14:36, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Just to offer another possible perspective: Perhaps a degree of modesty with regards to sex is not such a "bad" thing after all. It's not that sex is necessarily a "taboo" subject, implying that there's something wrong or dirty or sinful about it. Quite the contrary. Sexual intimacy is one of the most amazing possible experiences that life has to offer. Perhaps, for many, sex is too much of a personal, private, intimate, "special" experience between that person and his or her partner that to speak so openly and unabashedly about every possible detail would just ruin that "specialness" of the experience. Perhaps, in an effort to maintain some of the mystery of sex, which is also one of its very appealing qualities, some of us are just naturally irritated when sexuality is so gratuitously displayed that the whole amazing quality of the experience is inevitably diminished. I think it's unfair to say that the modesty I'm speaking of is based on some sort of uptight religious disapprobation. Yes, some religions do seem to somehow equate sexuality with sin, but not all, and it's certainly innacurate to conclude that all forms of sexual modesty are the result of the belief that there's something "bad" about sex. Well, there's my two cents -- at least that's the way I've been brought up to understand the whole issue of the relationship between sexuality and modesty. Loomis51 22:49, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Why are Ken Lay & Jeff Schelling still here?

Why are Ken Lay & Jeff Schelling still here? Why don't they just get some of their money, hop on a plane and fly to Brazil rather than await sentancing for their crimes, for which they can recieve life in prison? For that matter why doesn't everyone convicted of or likely to be convicted of a major crime skip bail and get the hell out of the country? I mean at that point, what would you have to lose?

Wouldn't they just get arrested there and extradited. Philc _T^E_C^I 19:06, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Do you actually think they will serve their sentence? In a few years, when the general public forgets who they are, they will be let out on probation. It is better to serve a few years now instead of a lot of years for trying to skip out on the sentencing. --Kainaw ^(talk) 19:07, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Do other countries extraidate for non-volient crimes? why not go to a country that doesn't? XM 19:59, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Even in another country, there is still the risk of bounty hunters. Add to that the risk that another country's government may simply take all your assets and running away loses some of the appeal. --Kainaw ^(talk) 20:17, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Lay and Skilling have been convicted of a federal crime. There is no parole for federal crimes. Nor is there time off for good behaviour. Basically, they're stuck in there until Bush pardons them on his last day in office. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 21:01, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

No parole for federal crimes? Then why does the U.S. Dept of Justice have a US Parole Commission for paroling federal prisoners? --Kainaw ^(talk) 22:47, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Because the abolition of parole (by the Sentencing Reform Act of 1984) did not apply to prisoners committing crimes before that date (something about no ex-post-facto laws.) I might be wrong about time off for good behaviour -- I think I saw something that indicated that up to 15% of the sentence can be trimmed for being good. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 23:06, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

I just read their history page. It is the government agency that will not die. Every time a law is passed to phase them out, another one is passed to extend it even further. --Kainaw ^(talk) 23:55, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Yeah -- it's odd that they'd pass laws to phase it out, at least until the last of the pre-'87 prisoners dies off. Isn't the ex-post-facto part of it obvious? --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 06:57, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

How could a bounty hunter get you if you're in another country, and even if they do, you wouldn't go willingly. What do they do stuff you in a van and drive back against your will? LOL 12.183.203.184 02:46, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

• Pretty much so, yeah. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 06:53, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Worse, if you aren't who they think you are, there is no law against accidentally kidnapping the wrong person when trying to get a bounty. --Kainaw ^(talk) 12:52, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Well there is, it's the law against kidnapping and it applies to whoever you kidnap for whatever reason. AllanHainey 12:22, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Yup. But - if you kidnap someone in a country with which (say) the US has no extradition treaties, and get him across the border, who is going to prosecute and how? Might make a return visit inadvisable. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 04:18, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Help -

I am doing a big project for work where I need to find out a list of corporate anniversaries, ie. 2006 is hershey's 100th year anniversary. Im coming close with my searches (the link below is the closest i could find) but i would really appreciate some further guidance. Thank you

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_companies

Do you carry boxing history for 1900s

I am trying to find my grandfather boxing history back from the 1900s. I dont want to join unless you have this kind of information, If not can you tell me what web-site might have this information. Thank you Jenean

Well, if you gave us the name of your grandfather we MIGHT help you. Flamarande 20:21, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

You don't have to join to do a search. This is a free resource, search all you like. We would prefer you join if you are going to edit pages though. First tell us more about your grandfather and we can get you on the right track. What country did he box in? Do you know the league he was in, any other info that would be helpful. Nowimnthing 20:31, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Also, no one "joins." This is an encyclopedia. You either write it or not. Either way, you're free to read it. Geogre 12:27, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Concerning the Khazars

Are they any people that claim to be descended from the Khazars at last partially?

Maybe. See Khazars. Rmhermen 22:11, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

June 6

Roentgens Caricature Drawing

i am after a picture of Roenetgens caricature picture. where am i able to find one, if there are any availible

• Um, is this image the sort of thing you're after? (I found it on this guy's website if you want to know the provenance.) If you're looking for something else, please be more specific.--Pharos 02:30, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

HAH! That's pretty good (No I'm not the original requester)! 68.39.174.238 03:36, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Plural of Habeas Corpus?

I was doing some work on a page concerning a court case here and ran across a legal/linguistic question: Should two writs of habeas corpus together be written with the plural of "habeas corpus"? Also, embarassingly enough, if that's the case, what IS the Latin plural for "habeas corpus" ? Thanx68.39.174.238 02:20, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

I think "X writs of habeas corpus" is the correct form. "Habeas corpus" itself cannot be pluralised. It is clear from our article why this is so. JackofOz 02:34, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Habeatis corpus, habeas corpora, or habeatis corpora, depending on whether you want to pluralize the subject, the object, or both (in respective order). These are the latin terms, not the legal terms, as you asked. Legally, I think writs is correct. alteripse 02:41, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

But none of those "pluralizations" are pluralizations of Habeas corpus as an overall noun (incstead, they're separate Latin-language sentences), so they're a little irrelevant to English. It's like asking what is the Latin plural of ignoramus...  ;-) AnonMoos 03:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Political inclinations

Me again. I'm doing some work on the articel of the Supreme Court of New Jersey, and someone suggested that the partizan complex of the judges be shown. According to Fox (I know, not the best source), it's 4 Dem., 2 Rep., and one Ind. I've been able to find one person's affiliation (Zazzali's a Democrat). Anyone have any idea how they found out what everyone's party was? Or did they just ask them all one by one? Is there a likely place these things whould be recorded (I've checked about 15 pages of Google)? Thanx again. 68.39.174.238 03:40, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

• One has to remember that these judges were appointed by the governor, and presumably all or nearly all are of the same party as the governor who appointed them. I believe the party rolls are public information, though it would probably take a fair bit of bureaucracy to get to them. Short of that, the definitive source for their party affiliation would I think be the Star-Ledger story on the occasion of their swearing-in.--Pharos 03:58, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Interesting idea, however I don't see how to account for the independant one though... Do you know if the S-L keeps back issues online, or if anyone else does? I checked their site... but it immedately confused me (Sorry, it did: flat and portal-like!)! 68.39.174.238 04:20, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, wait... Zazzali's a democrat... and was appointed by Whitman (A Republican)? I think I'll have to find someone with back issues of the S-L and root around in there, unless there's something else. 68.39.174.238 04:23, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

See this site. Only short excerpts are free, but I've been able to piece it together. Here's the breakdown:

• Poritz, Republican according to a July 11, 1996 article.
• Long, Democrat according to a September 9, 1999 article.
• LaVecchia "has spent 12 years working in Republican administrations" according to a January 11, 2000 article.
• Zazzali was a Democratic state attorney general (May 5, 2003 reference if that's necessary).
• Albin was appointed by McGreevey and gave money to Torricelli, but we don't have an explicit statement of his affiliation.
• I can't see a reason to doubt that Wallace is a Democrat, but again it isn't explicitly stated.
• Rivera-Soto is a mentioned as "listed alternately as a Republican and an independent" (April 21, 2004) or as just a registered Republican (September 12, 2004), but he has given more money to Democrats than Republicans. It appears he is the "independant" Fox News was referencing, though I think that classification may be inaccurate.--Pharos 05:20, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Wooooooooooooot! Thanx dude! 68.39.174.238 02:23, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

HAH! Now when I troll for other sources, look what comes up:! 68.39.174.238 03:16, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

"Officer on deck!"

In pop culture I've learned that soldiers/sailors signal that an officer is nearby and requires saluting by calling out the above phrase. Can anyone tell me if there's always been such a custom? - I'm especially interested in the armed forces of 17th century France.

Thanks Adambrowne666 06:04, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Just a side note: that phrase is only used by Navy and Marine enlisted. The "deck" is the ship's deck, and it comes from the days when the swabbies and sailors would be working on the deck of the ship -- rigging and swabbing and stuff -- and the officers would emerge from cabins or superstructure and these working sailors would need to notice. Nowadays, of course, the phrase is used even though the sailors and marines might be six floors beneath the top deck of the ship. Geogre 12:25, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, Geogre - but no cigar as yet - no other takers? Adambrowne666 09:31, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Berndt Lubich von Milovan

I am searching where Berndt Lubich von Milovan was burried. He died probably on April 24, 1966 in Oslo. He was a fascist born in Riga, Latvia on December 7, 1913.

Thank you for your help

Alena, June 6, 2006

Searched Find A Grave, Ancestry.com (too much results). Try them ? --DLL 20:18, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

World Cup

How many World Cup squad members play in the English Premiership, or the lower English leagues, and how does this compare with the other European leagues?

See 2006 FIFA World Cup (squads)#Player representation by league. Conscious 10:39, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Only two nations where all players play in their domestic league. Interesting!

Spain's the one that intrigues me - everyone either plays at home or in England. And the squads overall make for an interesting comparison with the almost entirely domestic squads in the early cups (see 1934 FIFA World Cup (squads), for instance). Grutness...wha? 09:51, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Lewis and Clark - how far can you canoe?

Reading several sources on the Lewis and Clark expedition raises a question - how far can you go today in canoe between St. Louis and the Pacific Ocean? It seems as though there are rivers which are navigable by canoe which would lessen the distance to traverse over the mountains that L & C weren't aware of. Admittedly, there are now dams which would require portage that L & C didn't have to face.

Hmm, I wonder if we have an article on wild rivers or list of wild rivers or list of wild rivers in North America? If not, the Google term would probably be "wild river," as that seems to be the only type of river that doesn't have a flood control or hydro electric dam on it somewhere (or a water diversion dam as with the Colorado River). Geogre 13:21, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

It is certainly possible to canoe on rivers with dams. Whether Lewis and Clark could have gotten farther - maybe a little, but not enough to matter. Those large mountains just weren't going to allow a easy trade route. Rmhermen 23:58, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

List of Convicted Terrorists in U.S. Prisons

I am interested in finding a list of terrorists convicted in the last 5 years in the U.S. -- and which U.S. prison are housing them. Thank you.

As far as I know it's just Richard Reid (shoe bomber) and Zacharias Mousaui (I know that last name's spelt wrong), anyone else gets thrown in Guantanomo without all the inconvenience of trial and conviction (or aquittal). AllanHainey 14:20, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

What about Terry Nichols and Eric Robert Rudolph? They are both at ADX Florence, along with Moussaoui, Reid and many other high profile prisoners.--Pharos 21:19, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

The right spelling is Zacarias Moussaoui. E-s-B 14:34, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Here is the Pentagon list of detainees, but most of them have not been tried yet [8]. Here is a list of infamous terrorists and current info about them, some in prison, some not [9]. Nowimnthing 14:48, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Shurely shome mishtake? If they have not faced a fair trial and due process, are they not infamous people accused of being terrorists? Or do we do away with traditions such as 'Innocent until proven guilty' now that there's any test of them? Sorry: bugbear. Skittle 14:52, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

I just went with the how they were listed in the article. It looks like most of the ones in the list that have not been convicted have assumed responsibility for terrorist actions. Nowimnthing 15:23, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

You have to read the article USA PATRIOT Act. Basicly, to protect American security almost all rights have been revoked. You can thank the American people who voted for George W. Bush, our new and glorious leader in this new crusade against terrorism. Don´t forget to praise the LORD for the new American president. Oh, and if you are against it, you might be a anti-american fanatic, perhaps... even a terrorist sympathizer; you will be checked out (privacy? forget it), and then perhaps arrested for a couple of years WHITHOUT charge and then probably forgotten. (Ahh sarcasm, don´t you just love it?) Flamarande 15:10, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

I feel sorry for the Americans, whose privacy rights have been taken away. Just look at what the U.S. government did in response to 9/11 (Patriot Act, War on Terrorism, etc). It's much more devastating than the destruction of the World Trade Center and its immediate consequences. --Bowlhover 03:35, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

What about us poor British? There have been some 'interesting' laws passed here too. Skittle 07:57, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Please do not 'correct' people's spelling for them. Suggesting 'I think you meant ___' is one thing, changing it yourself is another. As it is, the 'mistake' you corrected in my post was deliberate: a reference to a particular magazine. On top of the chance of this sort of thing, it is rude to alter people's words without their consent and doesn't allow any lessons to be learnt, unlike pointing errors out. Thank you. Skittle 16:00, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

I think it is absolutely great that Bush is an evil overlord who took away every single right the American citizens have and is the sole source of every problem in the world. That means that when his term is up, the entire world will turn into a utopia. How can anyone complain about that? --Kainaw ^(talk) 19:04, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Not if someone of his ilk such as his brother or Bill Frist succeed him. User:Zoe|^(talk) 17:36, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Seating Plan Diagram Of Indian Parliament

I need the seating plan diagram of indian parliament i.e lok sabha and rajya sabha for a project. Please provide them.

Click here, then click on "email", then you can ask the head of security yourself and tell him all about your project. --Shantavira 18:25, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Comparison Between Indian Rupee, American Dollar And British Pound

Could you please tell me why American Dollar is strongest and has widest coverage even if British currency has the maximum value? I need this information urgently.

For a start, you can take a look at the international use section of the United States dollar article. I will see what else I can find for you. Road Wizard 18:37, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Maximum Value doesn't equate to better stability. Philc _T^E_C^I 19:07, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

I think that is what he/she is asking. So yeah the dollar may be considered stronger not because of it's relative value compared to other currencies (though that is one consideration) but due to it's widespread use and relative stability. Nowimnthing 19:26, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

The fact that the £1 is worth more than $1 doesn't mean the pound is a better currency than the dollar or that the British economy is better than the American one. The weakness of the dollar compared to the pound reflects the fact that the US has a trade deficit with the UK. But in the US, the trade deficit tends to reflect strength, not weakness, in the economy. In some countries, such as Zimbabwe, a weak currency does reflect weakness in the economy, but, to this point, not in the US. The US remains the world's number-one economic power, and the dollar, even if it has its up-and-down cycles, is a relatively stable currency. In the future, however, the euro may come to replace the dollar as the world's currency franca. -- Mwalcoff 23:12, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

In fact the Kuwaiti Dinar is the highest valued currency unit, 1 Dinar is worth US$3.46 DM Andy 05:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

I REALLY think that to say: "the weakness of the dollar compared to the pound reflects the fact that the US has a trade deficit with the UK" is highly innacurate. Of course that may be one factor, but certainly not the main or even major factor. A currency's value is based on a vast number of variables. Very high on the list would be the relative interest rate set by the particular country's central bank, which in turn is a decision made by looking at an even more vast array of economic indicia. Monetary policy is an extremely complex art/science, one that I have only the most basic understanding of. If you want the complete answer, you'd have to ask Alan Greenspan as he is perhaps one of the very few who actually seem to have a firm grasp of this sort of thing. However, what I do know is that trade deficits, to the extent they have an effect, are only one of a vast number of variables that contribute to a currency's value.

It's also interesting to note that one of the world's "leading" currencies, the Japanese Yen (¥), a currency that is rivaled only by the US Dollar ($), the European Euro (€), and perhaps, the British Pound Sterling (£), has a surprisingly low value, for anyone who is unfamiliar with it. I certainly couldn't quote its precise value at the moment, but very roughly, it's worth something like 1¢ American, give or take. Yet it remains one of the worlds leading currencies, most likely due to the immense importance of the Japanese economy. Loomis51 22:01, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

You also have to remember that what each country uses as it's basic method of valuation is completely arbitrary. Just because 1 dollar = 114 yen doesn't mean anything about their absolute worth, it just makes transactions different. Other than minor variations you are still getting the same value for the same goods. Ignoring a lot of variation here, so bear with me: If you buy a car for $10,000, someone in Japan would buy the same car for around 1.14 million yen. Each of you are getting the same product for the same price. So it is just the monetary units relative worth to other monetary units that is important, not the actual numbers. Nowimnthing 16:13, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

While you seem to have a good point, I don't think you truly understand. Currency valuations aside, it's well know that Japan is a more expensive place to live than the US. If you buy a car for $10,000, it's likely that that same car will cost you more than the amount of Yen $10,000 will buy you.

Put more simply, let's say, for the sake of argument, that 1¥ = 1¢. Let's say also that in America, a soda will cost you $1, or 100¢. As it's well known that the cost of such basic goods in Japan are higher than they are in the US, you may end up paying ¥300, or $3 for the same soda. We're clearly NOT getting the same value for the same goods.

Comparison of urban studies departments in the US?

Where can I get information on relative judgements on quality of teaching and research of urban studies depts at US Universities? I'm interested in some govt or independent survey. Thanks! 71.34.105.97 19:05, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

I've tried to answer a question like this before and it is not as easy as it seems. Independent ranking organizations tend to rank the entire university rather than individual schools within the university. Notable exceptions being medical, business, and law schools. You can find a list of schools offering degrees in urban studies here [10]. From there you would have to do some research on each school you might be interested in to see how much they publish in journals and if there any faculty who you would like to work with. If anyone can find better info, I will be curious to see it. Nowimnthing 19:34, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! I noticed on their website that Portland State says they ranked 3rd in the country (their US dept) in the most recent survey, but couldn't figure out which survey. I called them, but of course, couldn't find anyone who knew anything about it. 71.34.105.97 19:38, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm. You might try the Journal of Urban Affairs one of those topic specific journals are the most likely place to find rankings. Nowimnthing 20:19, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

voting

Why do we always vote on Tuesdays

One assumes that by "we" you mean citizens of the United States, in which case there is some information at Election Day (United States), as well as an informative (if overly Flash-reliant) external link. --LarryMac 19:16, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

It varies between countries. The UK General Elections always happen on Thursdays. In Australia all federal, state and municipal elections happen on Saturdays. JackofOz 20:45, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

That's interesting, it wouldn't occur to me that in Parliamentary systems like the UK or Australia there would be a set day of the week for elections, as up here in Canada there is no set day, an election can be called for virtually any day of the week (although they're almost invariably held on a Sunday or a Monday). Is it actually by law that the UK and Australia have elections on those days, or is it just a practice that's gone on long enough that people take it for granted (and as such it would be very unpopular for a government to break with tradition and hold an election on another day)? Loomis51 21:37, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

In Australia, it is compulsory to vote - or, at least, attend the polling booth and get your name ticked off the roll. Making it impossible for Australians to meet their legal responsibility to vote is likely to be *very* unpopular.--Robert Merkel 00:19, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm aware of that Australian law. I'm just not sure how that relates to the discussion. All I can do is speak of Canadian electoral law, where on election day, employers are required by law to provide a certain number of hours off work to allow employees to vote. Loomis51 00:44, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

It's on Saturday because section 158 of the Commonwealth Electoral Act says so. That's for Federal elections. I'm guessing there would be similar provisions in State legislation. JackofOz 11:53, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

I believe we (Americans) vote on Tuesdays because in the olden days, some people would travel overnight to vote, and they didn't want to travel on a Sunday. Today, of course, people can't be bothered to drive 5 minutes to the polling station sometimes. -- Mwalcoff 04:37, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

In the UK, there is no law stating that elections must be held on a Thursday, and on rare occasions, they have been held on other days. It is merely a tradition, and a fairly recent one - the 1931 UK general election was held on a Tuesday. Warofdreams talk 01:48, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

According to Schott's Almanac, Thursdays were originally chosen as being the days "furthest from the influence of the paypacket (Friday) or pulpit (Sunday)." FWIW here in New Zealand they're normally on Saturdays. Grutness...wha? 09:56, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Trojan War infobox

There is a disagreement on whether an military conflict infobox should be included in the Trojan War. We would like to know if it is official Wikipedia policy to have infoboxes in fictional and semi-ficitonal Wars. Please answer in the Trojan War discussion page Ikokki 19:57, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

The best place to get some discussion on this would be Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history. The final answer you should expect: there is no "official" policy, and so work out a compromise with your collaborators on the article. --Kevin Myers | (complaint dept.) 21:00, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

I believe most historians consider the Trojan War to have been an actual war. Having occurred in the prehistoric period (in that part of the world), however, our accounts of it are quite sketchy, based almost entirely on the highly fictionalized Iliad, as recorded by Homer. StuRat 02:32, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

• I think if the article is based on the fictionalized Iliad, it's the sources and not the infobox that's the problem. Apparently precedent allows such boxes on fictional battles (see Ministry of Magic#Department of Mysteries if you feel Harry Potter-inclined)

Burlesque Comedian Harry Evanson information sought

Harry Evanson was my great uncle. I know that he was a burlesque comedian. Form Wikipedia and the internet I have also found references that state that he worked with Bud Abbot of Abbot and Costello fame at one time.

I would appreciate anyone who could lead me to sources of additional information. StephenSS 20:17, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

• Note: anyone who finds additional sources, please also add them directly to the Harry Evanson article.--M@rēino 21:02, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

• A quick question - was that article a live link when you posted that comment? It no longer appears to exist. Road Wizard 23:23, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

No, it never had an article. -- Миборовский ^{U|T|C|M|E|666} 01:40, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Distance Traveled for water.

What is the estimated distance traveled in undeveloped countries for water? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.117.214.64 (talk)

• The answer will vary HUGELY depending on the local climate. In The Gambia, for example, the answer is "a couple meters, tops." In the Kalahari desert, you might be in for a 300-km hike.--M@rēino 21:05, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Deaths?

Did any of the workers or people involved in the carving of Mount Rushmore die? (During construction, of course) --71.98.6.115 21:18, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

No, they are all immortal

Now now, be nice. If you mean were any workers killed while working on the carving, then no, according to [11] "Not a single worker was killed working on the carving...". The man who organised the project, Gutzon Borglum did die of an unrelated embolism in 1941 before it was completed, and his son completed the carving. --Canley 00:41, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

June 7

Untitled Question

What is the difference between logical doubt and psychological doubt? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.67.82.247 (talk)

see doubt and skepticism. Nowimnthing 01:59, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Verifying a Bushism

I've been checking the status of some Bushisms mentioned in a Sydney Morning Herald article. According to "Putting the Lie to Bushisms" at Irregular Times, two of the quotes were said by Dan Qayle. The third one is "One of the great things about books is sometimes there are some fantastic pictures". Some web pages cite this article. But the article doesn't give any details about where or when it was said. Is the quote real or false? Andjam 02:39, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't know, but I recommend the "Bushisms" column at Slate (http://www.slate.come), by Jacob Weinstein. He's been compiling the real ones for 6 years or so and has them published in book form. Geogre 05:00, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

• Genuine Bushisms, by both father and son, tend to feature misuse of words. Quayleisms tend to use words properly, but be either at right angles to reality or jaw-droppingly stupid. In general, if you see Bush quoted as saying something daft that's not a malaprop, it's either made up or Bush said it as a joke.--M@rēino 14:08, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

My fav Bushism (paraphrased): "Terrorists are trying to destroy America, but we can't let them, that's our job." StuRat 20:23, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

ISTR it was actually closer to "Our enemies... never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." Grutness...wha? 10:03, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Army secret projects in New Mexico

My grandfather graduated from college with a degree in chemical engineering shortly after the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. As a patriotic young man, he joined the army. Once he finished basic training, he was told that since he had the degree, he had two choices: he could be part of a secret project in southern Utah, or be part of a secret project in northern New Mexico. He chose Utah, and spent the war designing explosives. He's always wondered what the other secret project was. The obvious candidate is the Manhattan Project, but were there any other secret projects going on in northern New Mexico at the time that would have needed a chemical engineer? --Carnildo 03:10, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Possibly there was a project that was so secret (or unsuccessful) we haven't found out about it. AllanHainey 12:30, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

My guess is that it was Los Alamos; I've never heard of any other secret projects in northern New Mexico of any size that would definitely require chemical engineers by the dozen. --Fastfission 18:21, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Could have been what's now Sandia also. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 20:07, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure they'd need huge numbers of chemical engineers there in 1943-1944 or so. It's possible, though. --Fastfission 21:21, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm trying to figure out where the original question indicated dozens or huge numbers of chemical engineers rather than one. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 04:15, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, I was going on the rather Copernican principle that assumed his grandfather wasn't special in his situation, and that it was representative of a larger trend. (I have no reason to assume this, other than the way the poster worded it, which made it sound like a matter-of-fact choice rather than something special.) --Fastfission 13:36, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, yeah -- just how many recruits with CE degrees would the Army have had? --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 03:33, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Muhammad according to the Hadith/Qur'an?

Does anyone know of a biography (preferably online, at this point) of Muhammad that relies heavily on the hadith and/or the Qur'an? Most of what I can find are based on cotemporary biographies and/or the sira. The Jade Knight 05:21, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Eureka Stockade

why was the Eureka Stokade important to gold miners?

Have you tried looking at our article on Eureka Stockade? Once you've read that, feel free to come back and ask about anything you don't understand.-gadfium 06:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Burmese greeting

What form of greeting should be used towards a Burmese Theravadin monk? Is a bow with folded hands sufficient, or is there something one would say? --Shantavira 08:20, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

You might want to ask this question at the Language desk as well. If you do, however, make sure to mention that the question is here as well to prevent duplication of effort. Road Wizard 08:46, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Holy Grail

Please could you tell me whay Holy Grail is?

There is an article called Holy Grail about it. Flamarande 12:19, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Don't be afraid to use the search box. You'll find it a lot quicker.--Shantavira 12:22, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Not necessarily, people have been searching for the holy grail for hundreds of years. AllanHainey 12:32, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Having recently seen The Da Vinci Code, I could tell you what the Holy Grail is, but I don't want to spoil the plot. JIP | Talk 13:44, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

When I went, they found it in the audience.--M@rēino 13:59, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Having read The Dark is Rising series, I can tell you it's already found and placed in a museum, but very few people know what it is. Thus Dan Brown must be wrong, because his Holy Grail didn't have any secret messages in it. Skittle 14:11, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm thinking the holy grail is definitely part of Audrey Tautou's body, but I can't decide which. (She's so hot. Especially when she calculated 26⁵ in like two seconds, that was so sexy.) 69.252.190.41 04:35, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

The holy grail is hidden in a castle in St Aaaaarrrrrrggghhh's. AllanHainey 08:33, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

• In case you were still wondering, the above answers should show you that there's no agreement about what or where the Holy Grail is and if it even exists. - Mgm|^(talk) 09:10, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

• The first iteration of the myth comes from Cretien de Troyes in Roman de la Rose, and it concerns Parsifal being shown the hidden relic of the chalice (pretty clearly the chalice) of the last supper. In other words, its first appearance is in a work of fiction. While some people, like Jesse L. Weston in the famous From Ritual to Romance have suggested that the grail myth bears striking resemblances to fertility cults going back to Osiris and that there is a vegetative structure inherent, all such mythography is after the fact, and I don't think she argues that Cretien was actually working from a source like that as much as that he re-encoded a tale that had existed in folk form in various syncretized forms. Geogre 02:19, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Looking for title of video

Hi there! This is a very random question, but here goes: I'm looking for the title of a short comic video clip which a friend showed to me a while back (unfortunately, she couldn't remember where she had found it!). It's about ten minutes long and is about a dog (puppet) who 'interviews' the people standing in line for the opening night of Star Wars Attack of the Clones. The dog often has a cigar in his mouth, speaks with a strong accent (something like Italian, I think) and permanently makes fun of the people he interviews. Amongst others, he talk to several people dressed as Jedi, someone dressed as Darth Vader, a girl, and someone dressed like a wizard. I know this all sounds very strange, but does anyone have the slightest clue what I'm talking about? Thanks muchly in advance! — QuantumEleven 19:56, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

It is Triumph, the Insult Comic Dog from the Conan O'Brian show. --Kainaw ^(talk) 20:00, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, that's it - Kainaw, you're fantastic :) — QuantumEleven 20:19, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Try to search out his* weather report for Hawaii some time. It's hilarious. *Triumph's not Kainaw's. Although if he chose to do one, Kainaw's might be hilarious too. --LarryMac 20:41, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

I vacationed in Hawaii for 7 months. The weather report is always the same. A chubby guy in a flower shirt says, "Ahhh, the wedder. It gonna mid-80 and partly cloudy." In the late winter, he adds, "Spect a touch of liquid sunshine in da afternoon. Aloha." Then, they cut to a cool helicopter fly over Oahu while playing Kaaaia Five ... Kaaaia Five ... Now, I'm staring out across the skyline of Charleston and watching fat people board the Queen Mary II. I wish I was back in Hawaii. --Kainaw ^(talk) 13:01, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Largest libraries

I am looking for a list of the largest academic libraries in the United States, by volume or any other measure. -mercuryboard^talk ♠ 20:43, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Try Library of Congress. Wait it´s not an academic library. Try List of university libraries Flamarande 21:19, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

• I know about the Library of Congress. I'm looking for a list of libraries. A ranking by some measure, preferably volume. -mercuryboard^talk ♠ 21:23, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Did you try Googling it? I put in "largest libraries United States" and got a bunch of useful links, i.e. [12][13][14]. Separating out the academic ones shouldn't be hard. --Fastfission 21:24, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

• The LoC is first and foremost a national library, not an academic one. Widener Library claims that the Harvard library system is the largest in the world, though that's more than just one institution; [15] is a source cited for that and tells you pretty much the answer. Shimgray | talk | 21:25, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Wow, I tried googling but didn't find any of these. Strange. Thanks! -mercuryboard^talk ♠ 21:28, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Hail! Hail! The Gang's All Here

I was wondering what year the song "Hail! Hail! The Gang's All Here" was written? My music states that it was written by Arthur Sullivan. Is that the same Arthur Sullivan who collaborated with Gilbert Sullivan?

Robyn Vitson

According to this site, it was written by Theodore Morse and published in 1917. Sullivan wrote the music to the song, but it's part of The Pirates of Penzance, and the lyrics for Hail Hail the Gang's All Here were not the original lyrics to Sullivan's music. User:Zoe|^(talk) 00:03, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Help identifying music?

Does anyone know what this music: File:Unknownmusic.ogg is called? When was it written, and by whom? (I will delete the sound clip if it turns out to be necessary for copyright reasons.) Thanks in advance. --BrainInAVat 00:26, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

I think it's Sabre Dance. —Keenan Pepper 04:07, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Yep, definitely is. GeeJo ^(t)⁄_(c) • 10:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

June 8

New Delhi food delivery system

Hi peeps! I was reading somewhere recently about a mobile food distribution system in India (New Delhi I think) that is considered to be the most efficient delivery system in the world. The basic idea is that business people that are far to busy to leave their office to go out for lunch have meals delivered to their door - hot, steamy, on time every time, down to the last minute. I'd really like to learn more about this system but can't find the info anywhere. Can someone help?

Thanks,

Lockie

You are undoubedly thinking of the Dabbawalas of Mumbai. DJ Clayworth 20:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. That's it!

Largest University Presses

I am looking for a ranking of the largest university presses in the United States, ideally by book output, but any ranking will do. -mercuryboard^talk ♠ 02:02, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Fraternities and sororities

I am looking for a list of United States colleges and universities ranked the number of students in fraternities and sororities, percent of students in fraternities and sororities, or the number of recognized fraternity and sorority chapters. -mercuryboard^talk ♠ 02:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Those statistics are kept by Baron's Guide to Colleges and Universities. I'm sure they have an online presence. If not that, look for the online presence of the Pan-Hellenic Council for the US. While I doubt Wikipedia has this list or is very accurate, if it does, this data is out there. Geogre 02:53, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm looking for the data online from any source that might have it, and can't find it... The Barron's website is selling books. -mercuryboard^talk ♠ 03:25, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

French occupied couture.

I know the Nazis allowed some of the French couture houses to remain open during the occupation, but I don't know which houses. I have also read that the houses that did remain open during the occupation produced some very elaborate collections, but I have never seen any photos or illustrations of any examples. I'm also wondering if these collections pretty much maintained the 1939 silhouette, or did the clothing evolve into more of a 40's look? Thanks -

Pickerism (sic), a psychological disorder?

I am seeking information regarding pickerism (spelling may be incorrect), which I anecdotaly understand to refer to a preference for poking or stabbing with a tool or utensil. It may be a form of sexual sadism, but I do not have sufficient informations to so classify. I have been told, with no referene authority that it is commen in gay male relationships that are characterized by violence within the relationship. A "google" search only referred to some response to a question about song lyrics. I would like some more credible information regarding this phemomenon.

Thank you for your assistance.

Kristine W. Cannon 07/06/06 10:55 p.m.

• Piquerism. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 04:01, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Ugly Laws

Does any one know of any laws against people being Physically ugly??..(any where around the world?)

No. You might get some funny looks, but you can go anywhere you like. There's a great big world beyond Coorparoo. If Shrek can do it, you can. --Shantavira 17:43, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

If you want to rationalize, you can claim that "rules against obesity" are "laws against ugliness". There are weight restrictions (based on laws) at amusement parks. Airlines charge for extra seats. Of course, you'd be arguing that the rules are laws and that obesity is ugly. --Kainaw ^(talk) 00:58, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

There have been "involuntary euthanasia" campaigns against people who were physically disabled (i.e. T-4 Euthanasia program). Again, that's not the same thing at all as being ugly, but is in right subjective-criteria-for-fitness ballpark. --Fastfission 19:28, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Persian Mythology

I was wondering if anyone knows information about the Persian demon 'Dev', all I know is that it was a God of War but I would like to find out much more about it. Thanks in advance.

You must be wrong, if it's not on wikipedia, it does not exist! VdSV9•♫ 10:52, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Try Div (Persian mythology), perhaps this is what you are looking for. Flamarande 10:54, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Hey! would you look at that... Let's add it to the Dev disambiguation page...

... VdSV9•♫ 11:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Prince of Orange

(no question asked)

Probable answer: Prince of Orange. --Kevin Myers | (complaint dept.) 13:38, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Plausible but unlikely answer - it was a song by Andy Partridge (of XTC). Grutness...wha? 02:50, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

And your evidence for the "unlikely" bit is ......?? JackofOz 06:38, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Implausible Jeopardy question: "Who is the son of the King of Red and the Queen of Yellow?" - Nunh-huh 06:22, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Arthur C. Clarke Article

In the Article of Arthur C. Clarke, I Couldn't found the book "The Reefs of Taprobane" from his triology "The Blue Planet Triology" in the book index.

So anyone who knows the exact details of that book, It is better to update the article. Thank You.

Sithara from Sri Lanka.

Taprobane being an old name for Sri Lanka. --DLL 22:29, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

More details on Munagapati in andhra kshatriyas

Please provide much details on munagapati in kshatriyas Is there any relation between padmashali munagapati, kshatriya munagapati

Pres.Clinton and missing plane

Does anyone know about the civilian aircraft shot down in the USSR during the cold war that was a scandinavian air liner? The plane was shot down on a frozen lake and survivers were seen by another airliner. The plane had American citizens on it. President Clinton declaired their fate an offical secret of the US early in his administration. The matter was remarked on in a work of literary fiction but was actually a fact. 24.0.47.184 16:38, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Nothing appears to match that description at our list of accidents and incidents on commercial airliners grouped by location. I would suggest that, if your only reference is a work of fiction, the incident is probably fiction. — Lomn Talk 17:05, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

It was a KAL airliner, and it went into Soviet airspace from Korea. It was almost certainly not engaged in any intentional espionage, but the Soviets shot it down automatically. I'm not sure if we have an article on it, though. I'm also fairly certain that it was prior to Bill Clinton's presidency. Geogre 17:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Good call, though I think you're mixing Korean Air Flight 7 (which entered Soviet airspace in the vicinity of Korea) with Korean Air Flight 902 (which crash-landed on a frozen lake near Scandinavia in 1978). I still don't see any ties to Clinton or a US declaration of secrecy, though. — Lomn Talk 17:51, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Oh, quite. There is no declaration of secrecy. (Also, if there were, it would be a pretty crummy secret if we knew about it.) It wasn't Clinton, either. I think the author our questioner read was mixing matters to come up with a plausible secret. After all, tensions between the Soviet Union and the US were nil during Clinton as the Soviet Union was nil. Geogre 21:24, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I was going to mention that there was no USSR during the Clinton administration, since it dissolved in 1991 and Clinton didn't actually come into power until 1993. --Fastfission 14:26, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Indian history fort timeline

I am Rahul, and I need to make a project on forts of indai. Even after searching all I could, I was unable to find out these details, and if you could help me, I would be eternally graterful. -->The order in which different dyansties which came to india and built forts. if you could, what i need is something like this: |Name of ruler/Dynasty | name of fort | time it was built | if possible, a table would be great. I will really appreciate anyone who might help me out. Thanking you, Rahul (i dont know how to sign, im sorry)

To sign your comments, simply add ~~~~ to the end of your last sentence.

The article on the Mughal Empire mentions a fort called Agra that was built by Akbar. I will keep an eye out for other information for you, but Indian history isn't one of my strong points, sorry. Road Wizard 21:20, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Update - the Delhi article mentions construction of several forts. Road Wizard 21:29, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

The best way to get this information would be to through the articles at Category:Forts in India and pick out the figures you need. - SimonP 21:29, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Nazi

Why was the full form of NAZI as <something something>

''== '''Socialist''' ==''

party?

Have you read the article on the Nazi Party? Within, you will note that it was a small party formed by discontents with the Wiemar government after WWI. Hitler was assigned to infiltrate it and then took the party over, changing the objectives but retaining the name. Socialism was always strong in Germany: prior to WWI it was more influential in Germany than any other European state, having won advances in protection, wages, working hours etc. for German workers. Also see National Socialism and corporate state.--Shandon 17:39, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Napolean Bonparte

What did Napolean Bonparte give to his wife for a wedding gift.....

• Which one? He had two wives; first Joséphine de Beauharnais and later Marie Louise, Duchess of Parma. Road Wizard 21:08, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
• I believe this question comes from The Terminal, which is playing (ad nauseum) on HBO in the US just about now. Geogre 21:21, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

To Destiny. --DLL 22:27, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Googling this suggests it was a gold medallion with the inscription: "To Destiny" (whereupon she replied "But Nappie, my name's Marie.") That last bit was apocryphal.--Shantavira 15:37, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

William Shakespear's Works

Does Shakespeare' s words sell in Japan? I want to look at a sample. And I want to judge. Although there is little marketability, I think that there is idea nature. Sincerely yours Masami Kiuchi

• Shakespeare's works are almost certainly sold in Japan somewhere, probably both in original English and Japanese translations. However, you can read his work in English for free by going to Wikisource. There is also a Japanese Wikisource, but I don't know enough of the language yet to see if it contains a translation of his work. Road Wizard 23:13, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Just pointing out that the question has been rephrased since I left my answer. My answer may or may not apply to the current question. Road Wizard 06:54, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

• Akira Kurosawa adapted multiple plays by Shakespeare into Japanese language films, including Ran and Throne of Blood (English titles), based on King Lear and Macbeth, respectively. Yes, his works sell in Japan, though, of course, no poetry ever translates. Geogre 02:14, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
• I had heard Shakespeare is quite big in Japan, there are certainly a lot of Japanese Tourists all over Shakespeareville every summer. AllanHainey 07:39, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Waistcoats

The article on waistcoats says the coat should be cut from the same material as the rest of the suit but I saw someone at the summer ball wearing a waistcoat with a white swirly sort of pattern on it that their dinner jacket did not have.

No, our article says that that was the fashion in the 19th century. - Nunh-huh 23:50, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

June 9

Gospel Breakfast

What is the origin and any verifiable history surrounding the phrase "gospel breakfast". Thanks in advance for any help with this.

I think it is actually the Last Supper. --Brand спойт 11:58, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

I can't verify a specific origin for the phrase, but to me it would make sense if the tradition originated from the incident in John 19, where Jesus makes breakfast , and Peter is told to take care of the flock. --Seejyb 21:06, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

In all sincerity, the kind of event I associate with "gospel breakfast" is like this one. --Metropolitan90 03:04, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, I see. That seems quite common (now that I've googled the phrase). But US gospel has a flavour of it's own. In a local Methodist church (in Africa) a gospel breakfast is a sober community building and direction discussing event, held on a Sunday in lieu of a formal service. That does not help the questioner much, unfortunately --Seejyb 16:51, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Shakespeare

I am beginning the process of writing articles for each of Shakespeare's sonnets. Would it be considered original research to engage in some light, unadventurous analysis of the text? I realize that sometimes criticism can be subjective, but perhaps explicative analysis of generally-held interpretations would improve ones understanding of the article and improve the quality of Wikipedia. Adambiswanger1 04:56, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

It wouldn't be original research if you could source your comments. If you're writing generally-held interpretations, you should be able to find them written somewhere (such as a pedagogic book, the kind they often use in schools, or in the notes in a collection of poems) and cite these sources. If you're not sure how to include the sources, post them (and roughly what they say that is relevant) on the article talk page, drop me a note and I'll add them. Skittle 12:03, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

The rule I follow (and I sometimes have to bat away charges of OR) is that if an interpretation can be found in 3 or more sources, you can regard it as non-controversial, as "common knowledge," and therefore don't need to note it. For example, saying that My mistress's eyes are nothing like the sun is a poem written to ironically praise the mistress at the same time as deflating romantic conventions is an interpretation, but there's no way you'd need to note that. Every person who says anything about the sonnet says as much, so noting is just silly. Between that extreme and, say, presenting a Greenblatt observation (repeated by 3 other New Historicists) as true, there is a continuum. The less controversial and common a reading is, the less you'd need to cite it, I'd say. Geogre 12:29, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

You do still have to source 'common knowledge', but people might be a bit more lenient about leaving it in while you do. After all, many things are common knowledge and not true. Obvious it may be, but you still need to cite it, at least loosely. Skittle 13:37, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

I think we differ on this and must remain at difference. One needs to be able to cite, but actually citing would make articles on artworks infinite in their footnotes. Like I said, it's a continuum. The more novel and fringe, the greater the need to cite. The more obvious-as-a-stone it is, the less. Ultimately, it's up to the editor to judge carefully and to be prepared, if necessary, to cite. However, if a single person asks for a source of something absolutely the case, it might be possible to cite on the talk page. Again, it depends, and there isn't a rule, except to say that you need to be able to cite everything, but citing everything just generates clutter and devalues the citations. Geogre 14:01, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

If you are able to cite, the source should be in the article. If readers can't see the source, what good is it? It doesn't have to make the footnotes infinite, because if you are using a couple of books as a source for your whole 'interpretation' section, you only need to footnote them once each, at the end of the section. If the whole article draws on common ideas, you can list a couple of books as bibliography. Being able to cite is not enough, as what happens if you go off somewhere and someone wants to know how you justified something? Skittle 14:07, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks that helps alot. I'll spread the word to other editors Adambiswanger1 13:48, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Can cheat device patch codes be copyrighted?

Often when searching for Game Genie (or similar) patch codes I find the author has made claims of copyright (see The Code Hut for instance). I'm not asking for genuine legal advice, but are such claims valid under US copyright law?

The way I see it patch codes are facts, and therefore uncopyrightable. The Master Sword dealing 3 damage would be a fact, and that damage rating being stored in the memory address 7FFFFF would also be a fact. Therefore you can claim ownership of your presentation of these facts, but not of the facts themselves.

So, anyway, am I right or are they? Garrett^Talk 03:10, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

(IANAL) Yes, with the caveat that in a number of jurisdictions collections of bare facts may be copyrightable works. So if you copy a single patch code you're in the clear, but if you take a whole bunch they can come after you for that. See database rights. EdC 06:10, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

• Patches are computer programs and although fixing an error in an existing program is less exciting than creating a new one from the ground up, I would say that writing such a program can be seen as an act of creativity and is therefore copyrightable. It's not the fact or error that's copyrighted, but the program/patch. And facts can actually be copyrighted. I could for example write a book on the party game Mafia and copyright it. People would be prohibited from copying the exact wording of the text and present it as their own (or copy it and cheat me out of the income for said text), but they would still be allowed to write about the facts of the game (i.e. the basic day/night format, voting and common strategies). - 131.211.210.10 08:03, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

"Facts" in a legally defined sense cannot be copyrighted. Certain expressions can, and certain arrangements of them can, but not facts themselves. When one is talking about "facts about a fictional work," though, it begins to slide into being a derivative work very quickly. Fictional works are generally more strongly protected by courts in the U.S. than are non-fiction works. --Fastfission 14:21, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

• My guess is that the most relevant caselaw would be Lewis Galoob Toys, Inc. v. Nintendo of America, Inc., but that doesn't really shed light on this question. Looking at the compilations of the codes themselves, they look at a lot like they would fall under some form of "slavish copying" to me, and not creative works, though there would be a very weak argument to the fact that selecting out which codes were "beneficial" requires some subjectivity, but it would be a very weak claim IMO. In the end, I'd guess the knowledge that X code has X effect is not copyrightable, and neither is the collection of them. IANAL, etc. --Fastfission 14:21, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Hm, some very interesting replies! I had no idea even the database claim has been challenged. For my part I'm only intending to pick out a few choice codes in order to embellish some guides without delaying for permission, and it looks like I can definitely do that. Thanks for all the feedback. :) Garrett^Talk 07:38, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Birklid v. Boeing Co

I can not figure out what this case is. I would be very grateful if you could help me with a brief summary. thank you.

Try e.g. this. --Brand спойт 11:55, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Newgate nonsense

Ran across this in a Newgate Calendar: Writ of Capias ad Computandum. Neither WP nor WT has anything on it. Anyone know? This was from at least ~1630. 68.39.174.238 11:17, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Writ of "amount to compute?" It sounds...strange. It may be nonsense, or it might be a one-time writ demanding loot (to be counted to determine the extent of a theft) or records of a fraud (demanding the ledgers). It could be a valid court demand, but it's nothing I've ever heard of before. Then again, the codex was still...fluid. Giles Jacob would come later, as would Shenstone and Blackmore. Geogre 12:25, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

I have found a reference to it at the Legal Dictionary. From the description provided there, it appears to be a writ to arrest a defendant who has failed to appear before an auditor. Road Wizard 20:11, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Islamic Republic

Does a man who wants to run to become a member of the Assembly of Experts have to be a mullah, that is, does he need to have attained doctoral-level education in Islam? If not, do you know how many of the 86 members are not akhoonds?Patchouli 11:09, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

FYI, I believe this question is about Iran. StuRat 20:45, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Wow

I recently received an e-mail, which claimed the following.

Abraham Lincoln was elected to Congress in 1846 and John F. Kennedy was elected to Congress in 1946.

Abraham Lincoln was elected President in 1860 and JFK in 1960. Lincoln 's secretary was named Kennedy while Kennedy's - Lincoln.

Both were particularly concerned with civil rights. Both wives lost their children while living in the White House.

Both presidents were shot on a Friday and both in the head. Lincoln was shot at the Ford theater, Kennedy was shot in "Lincoln" made by "Ford". Lincoln was as shot in a theater and his assassin ran and hid in a warehouse. Kennedy was shot from a warehouse and his assassin ran and hid in a theater. Both presidents were assassinated by Southerners and were succeeded by Southerners named Johnson. John Wilkes Booth was born in 1839 and Lee Harvey Oswald - in 1939. Both assassins were known by their three names and both names are composed of fifteen letters and both assasins were assassinated before their trials. Andrew Johnson, who succeeded Lincoln, was born in 1808 while Lyndon Johnson, who succeeded Kennedy, was born in 1908.

A week before Lincoln was shot, he was in Monroe, Maryland. And a week before Kennedy was shot, he was with Marilyn Monroe.

Creepy, huh? --Brand спойт 11:52, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

That's as old as the hills. See http://www.snopes.com/history/american/linckenn.htm Jooler 11:56, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Sometimes these things are made up, I recently recieved one qouting all these numbers about 9/11 and how they are all related to the number 911, and a passage from the koran about how an eagle cleanses the islamic world after years of hurt (supposedly reffering to america), it all turned out to be bullshit, the numbers were fiddled, and the passage was made up. Philc _T^E_C^I 12:05, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

We have an article on these supposed coincidences. See List of similarities between Abraham Lincoln and John F. Kennedy. JackofOz 12:15, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Keep in mind that a coincidence is not amazing. What would be amazing is if Kennedy and Lincoln had nothing in common. You can pick any two random people and find all kinds of coincidences. There are only 12 months - so the chance is high that they were born in the same month. Go back to their grandparents. Each person has at least 4 grandparents (no W. Virgina jokes), which means they likely have 8 names (first/middle for each grandparent). The chance is very high that any two people have at least one grandparent name in common. It goes on and on. I like a comment some physicist made: A coincidence isn't amazing. A complete lack of coincidences is. --Kainaw ^(talk) 12:42, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

My only comment on that is that the chance of having the same birth month as another person chosen at random is 1/12 = 8.33%. This is not exactly what I would call a "high" probability. JackofOz 12:46, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Actually, the probability of a date falling in a particular month is not a constant, but will vary on the length of the month. If it's a month of 31 days, the probability is 8.46%; for a month of 30 days, it's 8.21%; and if it's February, the chances are 7.73%. But it's that level of magnitude we're talking about. JackofOz 13:17, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

The cahnce of finding someone with their birthday in a specific month is indeed 1/12, but I suspect the chance of finding two people with their birthdays in the same month out of the list of presidents is considerably more. After all, once you have more than 12 presidents it becomes a certainty. Skittle 13:35, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Or like Penn and Teller in their Bullsh*t show talking about the virgin mary grilled cheese, "Think how many billions of grilled cheese sandwiches are eaten every year. It would be crazy to think that there could not be at least a few that looked like a woman with a scarf on her head, hell most of us have probably eaten one without realizing it." Nowimnthing 12:52, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

This is probably covered in our article mentioned by JackofOz, but the place Booth was shot (not really assassinated) is always described as a barn, not a warehouse. Also, Oswald usually went by two names in his lifetime (Lee Oswald). --Cam

While some of the data was likely massaged to make it appear to be more of a coincidence than it really is, there still does seem to be an amazing amount of coincidence there, especially if you only look at the short list of assassinated US Presidents for similarities. However, if you look at the huge list of all things ever compared for similarities (the 9-11 attacks vs Pearl Harbor, the two space shuttle disasters, etc.), I suppose you would expect to eventually find a pair with an amazing degree of similarities. Also, it's possible that Oswald arranged for some of the coincidences, based on his knowledge of the Lincoln assassination. Nut jobs sometimes do that type of thing. StuRat 20:42, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

BTW, Booth wasn't assassinated, he was simply tracked down by the authorities, who found him holed up in a barn. True, the particular officer who fired the fatal shot fired against orders, but nonetheless he was cleared of all charges of misconduct and awarded the bounty for tracking down Lincoln's killer. Rather a different story from that of Jack Ruby, I'd say. Loomis51 02:26, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

One thing the article doesn't really say is that neither Booth nor Oswald was ever convicted of the crime. There's a considerable amount of evidence that supports the view that Oswald was not the killer of JFK at all. There's certainly room for reasonable doubt. So if anyone arranged for anything to be coincidental, it's less likely to have been Oswald doing the arranging. JackofOz 05:51, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Guessing game

Is anyone aware of a game on the internet where they show you the photo of a person, and you have to guess where he's from, based on facial features, costume, etc. ? Or, maybe, any other similar games? deeptrivia (talk) 12:58, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

I vaguely remember some sort of game where only a section of the face (for example, just the mouth and chin, or just the area around the eyes) would be displayed, and you would have to guess what celebrity was being shown. I don't even remember whether this was online, on TV, or in print. --Tachikoma 14:28, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, there is always gash or tash. (Disturbing image warning. Do not click this at the office.). --Shantavira 14:49, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Oh, by similar games, I meant games involving indentification of nationality of a person based on typical characteristics, based on hints, visual or otherwise. deeptrivia (talk) 15:53, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Sound like one of the sites created with the goal of proving that there is absolutely no such thing as race or ethnicity. So, they show you a black man wearing African clothing and ask where he is from. Africa, right? Nope, he's actually an Inuit in dark makup and clothing that he normally would never ever wear. See - there's no such thing as race! --Kainaw ^(talk) 19:24, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

I mean, I met an Asian guy, and asked if he were Korean, and he was! I was pretty impressed with myself. Then I asked a girl if she was Thai, and she really was. If this were not enough, I asked another Asian guy if he were Vietnamese, and he really was! This is too much for me, and I want to test if I have a special gift of guessing people's nationalities. I need something like a game for testing myself :) deeptrivia (talk) 22:09, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

We used to play "Dead or Canadian" once in awhile, but not on the internet. --LarryMac 19:31, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

obesity tax

hi, i recently watched a documentary (in the UK) which basically argued that obese people should pay more income tax than non-obsese people. i found myself (to my eternal shame) thinking that the arguments where quite compelling (especially in the UK where the government picks up 100% of people's health care costs - the documentary estimated that all in all, obese people cost taxpayers £3 billion!) anyway, aside from the slightly nazi implications, are there any legal reasons (in the UK elsewhere) why such a scheme couldn't infact become reality? we do, for example, tax cigarettes on the same basis... thanks! 195.93.21.67 13:15, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't follow you. If you were convinced by the arguments, how could this be a cause for shame? JackofOz 13:30, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

I think a tax directly on a certain sort of people (such as increased income tax for the obese) would fall foul of Human Rights legislation. However, the actual proposals I have heard involve increasing the VAT on heavily processed foods and very fatty/sugary products, possibly using this to fund subsidies on fresh fruit/veg. This is a much closer analogy to the cigarette tax, since it is a tax on the products people choose to use, not on the people. Smokers do not pay increased income tax, but they pay more tax if they choose to buy cigarettes. Equally, people who bought 'unhealthy' foods would be paying more tax in the form of VAT, but could choose to buy cheaper, more healthy foods. Interestingly, processed food usually already carry VAT that fresh, unprocessed foods do not, but it isn't consistent. Skittle 13:32, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps instead of a Value Added Tax, it should be called a (nutritional) Value Lost Tax ? :-) StuRat 20:27, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

ps. It could be a cause of shame in the same way as my mother considers it a cause of shame when she finds herself agreeing with the Daily Mail on immigrants. The feeling often suggests you've overlooked something. Skittle 13:33, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

its not that i'm actually "ashamed" ashamed - its just that i recognise that taxing people based on how they look is a incredably slippery slope. the documentary was suggesting an income tax on fat people but i guess increased VAT on fatty foods seems much more sensible.. 21:06, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Oh right. In any battle between the heart and the mind over your attitude to some proposal, I'd suggest you follow your heart. It may be legally and intellectually watertight, but if it still feels wrong, then as Skittle says, there's something else that's important to you that the proposal violates. JackofOz 02:30, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Our Mutual Friend, leaves, and Mr. Twemlow

I've begun to read Our Mutual Friend by Charles Dickens, and I'm rather puzzled by the description of Mr. Twemlow in Chapter 2. This description refers to Mr. Twemlow as a "piece of dinner-furniture". The text goes on to say:

"Mr. and Mrs. Veneering, for example, arranging a dinner, habitually started with Twemlow, and then put leaves in him, or added guests to him. Sometimes, the table consisted of Twemlow and half-a-dozen leaves; sometimes, of Twemlow and a dozen leaves; sometimes, Twemlow was pulled out to his utmost extent of twenty leaves."

I've figured out that the Veneerings must see Mr. Twemlow as someone essential to have at a dinner party, but at the same time, they must not value him as a person, hence the "piece of dinner-furniture" comparison.

I'm guessing that the leaves might refer to tables that can be extended by adding additional panels (leaves?) when hosting additional guests. Going further with this metaphor, if Mr. Twemlow is like a dinner table, then the addtional leaves must represent the additional guests, who like Twemlow, are not particularly valued as people but rather as furniture or decor--something to lend prestige to Mr. and Mrs. Veneering.

Does this interpretation sound reasonable, or am I missing something here?

Needless to say, this is not a homework question.--Tachikoma 13:40, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

You're exactly right. He's a professional diner-out, like Hithladaeus in Utopia. The satire is both on him and the Veneerings, who are superficial people who don't look past the surface, and Dickens is making fun of the Victorian bourgeoise obsession with the "right" people for a dinner party. (Cf. Carlysle saying, "If Jesus Christ were to come today, people would not even crucify Him. They would invite him to dinner, hear what He had to say, and make fun of him after He left."). So, you add pairings of guests (leaves) to him to make a dinner. Geogre 13:54, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for the extremely quick response. I hope to eventually expand the article on Our Mutual Friend, and it generally helps to actually read the book before contributing to a book's Wikipedia article. At this point, I don't see the "furniture and leaves" question as being essential to such an article, but it does help my own understanding of what's going on.

Thanks again! --Tachikoma 14:05, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, I have a question. I don't expect anyone to be able to answer, but no reason not to ask it. Character names like "Veneering" or "Pistol" (Colley Cibber) or "Aimwell" (Wycherly) or "Allworthy" (Fielding) are names that describe the characteristics or actions of the characters. Is there a name for this rhetorical device? I've seen, recently, someone try to coin the term "aptonym" for people whose names are what they do (and the example was Tony Snow, who snows the press in his current job), but that smells false to me. Geogre 16:01, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm sure that such a term exists, but I can't quite remember it. The term that comes to mind is antonomasia, but I'm not sure if that's it.--Tachikoma 16:40, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Not it, but thanks for the hint. It's maddening. I'm similarly sure that such a term should exist, but I still have been unable to find it. I've thought of chasing down the discussions of Theophrastus and of Humour Theory (which I have done), but nothing has yielded yet. Aristophanes gave his characters names that "meant" what they did, so there has certainly been time to come up with a term. Geogre 20:14, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Allegorical names, label names, aptronyms, euonyms (in decreasing order of my opinion of their pertinence...). - Nunh-huh 04:59, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

I use compounds, too, for describing them. It's one of those things, though -- an area where it seems like the old Rhetoricians nodded. My own compound is even less elegant: "characteristic onomastics." Geogre 11:57, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

A "leaf" is an additional panel added to a table. I don't know how such things were arranged in Dickens's time, but there are many expandable dining tables for sale today. There is a divide in the middle of the table, two people pull the table at opposite ends and the divide opens up, and the leaf, a panel of the same material as the rest of the table, is inserted into the opening, making for a longer table. There are also tables in which the leaves are on hinges and hang below the table, fastened to it underneath until they are unfastened, pulled up and set in place. User:Zoe|^(talk) 16:49, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

I actually own a table like that, but I never knew that the extensions were called leaves. Continuing with Our Mutual Friend, I imagine that the sentence "Twemlow was pulled out to his utmost extent of twenty leaves" must suggest that at a very large dinner party, Mr. Twemlow must end up very far indeed from the hosts. Thanks for the definition. --Tachikoma 18:08, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Policies and procedures

I have seen P&P's used as inviolable rules and regulations yet an authorative definition is difficult to find in regards to their purpose and function. Many definitions vaguely indicated that they are 'guidelines' or 'best practices' which suggest that they are not rigid but flexible depending on the particular situation and the intent of an organization.

Anybody have anything definitive on this?

Thanks for your assistance and your time.

Christopher

You might want to have a look at the Policy and Standing operating procedure articles.

My own experience in corporations (product design) is that results are what matter. In areas such as production, accounting, and human resources, I'm sure, the policies and procedures are more important. --Halcatalyst 22:34, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Ayman Al Zwahiri

I really can't keep up with all these mysterious Arabic names of terrorists popping up one after another.Patchouli 17:18, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

spoiler: they are saving the Bin Laden showdown for the next presidental election campaign. dab (ᛏ) 18:37, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

dab: I'll bet you US$250 you're wrong, and there will be no Bin Laden showdown during the next presidential election campaign. Reply if you're up for it. 87.97.10.165 19:53, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

That would be Ayman al-Zawahiri by the way. Rmhermen 20:07, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Who, exactly, would be saving the Bin Laden showdown for the next election? Certainly not our good friend George W who we all admire and respect (a little levity, people!), as he is constitutionaly disqualified from running for a third term. Loomis51 01:30, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

It's funny you mention the constitution. As though that has ever gotten in his way. 82.131.186.145 14:38, 10 June 2006 (UTC).

• Even if bin Laden dies, then there will always be another terrorist to replace him. I asseverate that only a half dozen atomic bombs dropped in Iraq and Afghanistan can end kamikaze fighting of terrorists. The two bombs dropped on Japan killed a 110,000 people, but now about 190,000 have died in the War on Terror with more to be added. For instance, if one hydrogen bomb is strategically dropped in Iraq, then the Iraqi security forces will stop supplying the insurgents with arms and acting as double agents.Patchouli 09:41, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

USA

I looked over United States Constitution but couldn't find an answer quickly: Does a state of the USA have the right to leave the union? What would be required for this, would a majority vote of the state's population be sufficient, or would there need to be a majority in all of the USA? In view of the recent polarization, has any non-bible-belt state seriously considered leaving the Union? I am convinced that for example California could well hold its own as a sovereign state, and would economically probably be better off than as a part of the US. dab (ᛏ) 18:37, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

"Does a state of the USA have the right to leave the union?" Per the American Civil War, no. As the victors, the North used what amounted to military judicial review to define statehood as a one-way-only process. See secession for more. — Lomn Talk 18:58, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Of course, it's also worth noting that the "recent polarization" is particularly hard to define. What makes the current red-state-blue-state hype objectively more divisive than, say, the divided attitudes towards the civil rights movement of the 60s? — Lomn Talk 19:00, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

It might be possible, however, for federal government to allow a state to secede. I don't think there's anything in the constitution that would prohibit it, so probably it would just take an act of congress. --Ornil 19:17, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

The Constitution doesn't say, either way. The North did not attack the South after succession in the US Civil War, but rather the South attacked the Union base at Fort Sumter, then the North counterattacked. So, the Civil War doesn't really answer the question. I suppose California, Texas, or many other states could survive on their own, but the real question is, would they be better off ? Having to form their own military, develop trade and political relationships with the 200 plus countries on the planet, and erect customs booths and develop import/export laws dealing with the remainder of the US would not be cheap. The "polarization" you speak of is more of a rich vs. poor/Republican vs. Democrat nature than a regional difference. California, for example, has had many poor Democrats as well as many rich Republicans (Ronald Reagan and Arnold Schwarzenegger, for example). So, California splitting off from the rest of the US wouldn't help much unless they evicted either the rich or poor to make it more homogeneous. StuRat 19:12, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

When I studied the Hawaiian sovereignty movement, I found that after the U.S. Civil War, Congress made it illegal for a state to secede - which is why, even if every single person in Hawaii voted to secede, they couldn't do it. --Kainaw ^(talk) 19:28, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

that was what I wanted to know. So is this an amendment to the constitution, or just some law? This would mean that if some state (let's forget the "polarization" and speak hypothetically) wanted to leave, they could not unless they won a majority in the Congress? Does that also mean that if the Congress wanted to get rid of a state, and (just hypothetically, right) expelled it, that state could do nothing about it? It occurs to me that Montenegro gained independence from Serbia just by popular vote in Montenegro, the Serbs didn't get a say. Are you saying that in the US, the population would get no say at all, neither that of the leaving state nor that of the remaining ones, and that a simple Congress majority vote would be final and binding? dab (ᛏ) 19:33, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

See Texas v. White. The Supreme Court ruled it unconstitutional for a state to secede once and for all in that ruling. --Kainaw ^(talk) 19:41, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

That ruling just says consent of the states is needed, which I take to mean Congress. Of course, both parties would have to come to an agreement about secession, such as what to do with US property currently located in the state (nuclear weapons being perhaps the trickiest part). I suspect that if everyone in a state voted to secede, there would be no problem in getting Congress to let them go. If nothing else, the state's residents could just stop paying federal income taxes. StuRat 19:56, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

No, the ruling says that under the Articles of Confederation, union was perpetual and the current constitution merely makes that more perfect. The quote is: "The union between Texas and the other States was as complete, as perpetual, and as indissoluble as the union between the original States. There was no place for reconsideration, or revocation, except through revolution, or through consent of the States." What consents of the states might mean is debatable but clearly if the Confederates didn't have it, then it cannot be as simple as one state saying so. Rmhermen 20:02, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

No, no SINGLE state can, but the majority of states could approve the secession of one state. There is no process set up for this as yet, but if a state voted to secede then Congress could set up a process to get the majority of the states approvals (after all the separation issues, like possession of nuclear weapons, were ironed out). StuRat 20:13, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Also Congress is not as powerful as you seem to imply. They cannot even change the Constitution themselves. Rmhermen 20:05, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Also, if a secession did occur, I picture it being by default. That is, if a state chose to leave, the US would not be willing to go to war over it, so that would be that. Whether it was "technically illegal" wouldn't really matter. StuRat 20:13, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Also note that no US state has anywhere near a majority who would vote to secede, including Hawaii. Some US possessions, like Puerto Rico, are closer, but still not there. StuRat 20:02, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

On Congress' power - the primary purpose of Congress is to change the Constitution by ammending it. The President (executive) can feebly veto an ammendment, big deal. The Supreme Court is the only one who can say "no" and strike down an ammendment as being unconstitutional. Yes, I watched Schoolhouse Rocks as a kid. --Kainaw ^(talk) 20:08, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Actually, the president can't veto proposed constitutional amendments -- it's strictly up to Congress and state legislatures... AnonMoos 01:57, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

No, the primary purpose of Congress is to pass ordinary laws (and, of course, to get women for Democrats and bribes for Republicans). Constitutional Amendments are meant to be, and have been, somewhat rare. StuRat 20:20, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

I wish that certain states would figure that out. Alabama, for instance, has over 770 constitutional amendments in the past 105 years, including things like authorising the legislature to promote the catfish industry (#492). In the constitution! Bah. — Lomn Talk 22:31, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

California had that problem several years ago, and they resolved it by rewriting the Constitution and getting popular approval for the rewrite, incorporating many of the amendments into regular provisions of the Constitution, streamlining it considerably. User:Zoe|^(talk) 20:33, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

First, with regards to the feasibilty of secession, the people of a giant state like California would have no problem holding their own. "Having to form their own military, develop trade and political relationships with the 200 plus countries on the planet, and erect customs booths and develop import/export laws dealing with the remainder of the US" would simply not be an issue. In fact, to pick a nation from each continent, the population and economy of California is greater than that of Canada, Argentina, Greece, South Africa, Saudi Arabia (yes, even with its oil its economy still pales in comparison to California) and Australia. In fact, should it seceed, it would be an obvious candidate to be the ninth nation in the newly renamed "G-9".

But one need not look at a giant state like California. Even an average sized state with an average sized poplulation such as Pennsylvania or Michigan would still find itself among the richest nations on the planet, and would certainly be able to hold its own on the international scene.

Finally, with regards to the "legality" of secession, this may dissappoint many, but to the extent that the Constitution may forbid secession, the Constitution is irrelevant. To the extent that the Civil War may provide a precedent forbissing secession, it too is irrelevant. We no longer live in the 18th or 19th centuries, but the 21st, and sensibilities are simply different today.

Should a state like California hold a referendum on secession, for example, and should the people of California vote overwhelmingly to separate from the United States, and should the Government of California proceed on its course to sever all legal ties with the US, while maintaining a good faith approach to settling such sensitive issues as nuclear weaponry, etc...It is simply inconceivable that the Government of the United States would actually, in this day and age, use its military might and send troops into California, killing many Californian and US citizens in the process, to prevent the people of California from pursuing their democratic will to separate from the United States.

Fortunately, however, this is a pure intellectual, hypothetical debate, as there is no indication that any state is actually considering secession. Loomis51 01:23, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree with most of what you said. However, I never said it would be impossible for a state to form all the institutions needed to govern itself independently, just that the cost of doing so would likely outweigh any benefit. For comparison, the European Union has many countries which, can, and have, act independently. However, by forming the EU they hope to operate more efficiently than they could as individual nations. In the case of an independent California, for example, if a trade embargo was placed on it by the remainder of the US (say for refusing to surrender it's nukes), then it would be in deep trouble. StuRat 14:17, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

culturally important sports

What would be a good criteria to determine what is the biggest or most culturally important sport of a given country? YOu can't go with "official" sport, because for example, for Canada the answer should be ice hockey, but the official sport is lacrosse. For Brazil the answer is clearly football (soccer). How could you analyze it for USA? Is American football bigger, or baseball, or basketball, for example?--Sonjaaa 18:41, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

I would say baseball is the most culturally important US sport for historical reasons. It's older than American football or basketball, and has deeper cultural roots, such as songs ("Take me out to the all park"), sayings ("As American as baseball, apple pie, and Chevrolet"), and the very popular baseball metaphor for sex. While technically based on earlier English games, like rounders, a mythology has grown up around it's supposed invention by Abner Doubleday, as well. StuRat 19:30, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

(edit conflict) In the U.S. - nationwide - football is the most viewed sport. In other words, more people in the U.S. spend more time watching football than any other sport. But, that is a huge overview. In the southeast, Nascar claims to have more viewers. A client of mine told me that a survey in Vibe found that more black men watch basketball than football. When it comes down to it, football is a very television-friendly sport, so it is viewed more. It really doesn't have anything to do with the sport itself. --Kainaw ^(talk) 19:31, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

(edit conflict)I could see you doing it a lot of different ways. Attendance at sporting events, television ratings, $ paid to the athletes, etc. Any of those would be good arguments supporting your view that one is bigger or more culturally significant than another. Nowimnthing 19:32, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Try Sports league attendances to start out with. Nowimnthing 19:35, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Even attendance has problems, though -- how do you reconcile baseball's 160-game season with football's 16-game season? How do you reconcile football stadiums being about double the seating capacity of baseball stadiums (about 70k to about 35k)? Of course, this also poses the question of whether such factors should be reconciled.

Ultimately, I find that the question ends up being a good topic for discussion and debate but a lousy one for a definitive answer. — Lomn Talk 22:35, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree. "Cultural importance" is hard to determine. I think you're best off looking at something objective, like this survey, which asked respondents to name their favorite sport. According to most surveys I have seen, football, especially the NFL, ranks number one by far. Interestingly enough, African-American adults were the most likely to choose the NFL, probably contradicting the Vibe survey.

ESPN.COM recently had one of those "SportsNation" surveys asking what users' favorite pro sport was. In all 50 states, it was NFL number one and MLB number two with the NBA, NHL and NASCAR below. -- Mwalcoff 00:20, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Name meaning

Anyone know the meaning and orgin of the name baljit. I believe it may be related to indian culture.--206.251.4.216 22:00, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

You might do better on the language desk, but I'm sure it's Hindi, derived from the Sanskrit bala (pure) + ajita (unconquered). Hindi typically drops the -a endings. --Shantavira 09:07, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

June 10

Anarchy (?) Sign

What does this guy mean?

File:Temporary.jpeg

Does it mean anarchy?

And what are its roots (i.e. where does it come from)?

I have been tolled it comes from some kind a symbol that witches used in a certain curse. Do we have an article on it? Thanks. schyler 00:28, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

I actually don't have the answer for your particular question, but, I must inform you, due to your use of the word "tolled" in this particular context, you are hereby disqualified from claiming English to be your native language. Loomis51 01:35, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Maybe he was dictating. 82.131.186.145 14:35, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Sorry. Too many Ls. Thanks for telling me. Oh, and also, you don't have to be such an ASSHOLE about it. Its a simple mistake. By the way, you should have put a ":" between "must inform you" and "due to" rather than a "," and I think that's a lot worse than a typing error. Oh well.

I would still like someone to tell me the answer to my original question though. Thanks. schyler 01:53, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Think about it...is it just the extra L that's the problem or is there something else?

(You're right though, it's very uncharacteristic of me to act like an asshole and correct other people's spelling. I'm a bigger person than that. I just couldn't resist this time. It's your right to spell as you wish, and I shouldn't have been so harsh. My apologies.) Loomis51 02:07, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

• See Anarchist symbolism. --Metropolitan90 02:58, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

To answer the original question, the A over the O is the symbol of anarchy and represents Anarchy superseding Order or "Anarchy is Order". See here. Grutness...wha? 03:04, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Then what sign may I be thinking of that witches used? schyler 13:09, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

The pentagram is a similar shape, and its article mentions that it is used as a symbol of faith by wiccans. --Cadaeib (talk) 13:45, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

The pentagram, a similar symbol

Thak you very much. That's exactly what I was thinking of. schyler 17:33, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

What is the pantone number for Wales Flag?

Wales's Flag contains a red dragon and a green land. What is the exact pantone number for that red and green color? - unsigned

Flags of the World doesn't note any pantone numbers. Possibly that's because Wales, unlike Scotland or the U.K., has no legislature interested in specifying them? FWIW, Wikipedia's Image:Flag_of_Wales_2.svg has a red that's 100/0/0 RGB and a green that's 0/47.5/0 RGB. You might also be interested in this page on pantone/RGB in flag depictions. - Nunh-huh 02:36, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

If you like, I'll ask the question on the FOTW mailing list (which i'm a member of) -someone there might know, though I suspect it's not actually specified. The red of Y ddraig goch will be 186, the same as that for the Union Flag (the Union Jack). I must admit I more normally think of them in terms of CMYK values, and the welsh flag's green is very close to C-80%, M-40%, Y-100%, K-0%. Grutness...wha? 03:04, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

New category suggested in topic of Jesus Christ of Nazareth: Claims of Jesus

Recommend that we add claims of Jesus Christ, including: Jesus claimed to be the only way to God: "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.” (The Holy Bible, John 14:6, New American Standard Version) DKS 06:02, 10 June 2006 (UTC)DKS 6/9/06

• Who is stopping you? If you have the relevant facts, then just start the article. Others will help you out.I edited your statements.Patchouli 09:46, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

• Who will be stopping him is CFD, I imagine. New categories pertaining to Jesus will generate enormous dissent, unless the terms are exceptionally NPOV. "Claims" will strike many, I think, as implying "but not true" or "lies" or "boasts." Also, I'm not sure what such a category would include. We don't have articles on "I am the way" or "the meek shall inherit the earth." We have links to Sermon on the mount and Wedding at Canaan. Geogre 11:55, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

• There is already a section about what Jesus said on Wikiquote. I am not sure what a Category here would provide that a link to that page couldn't. Road Wizard 12:03, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Help for linking spanish articles about feudalism

I dont talk very well English, and I try to link various articles or categorys about feudalism with technical names derived from old Castilian language

Please, somelse can help me how to link:

• The category Categoría:Derecho feudal thats means Feudal Right
• The article Malos usos señoriales thats can be translate as "Feudal abuses" or perhaps "Feudal bad customs" (I dont know but is related to Peasants' Revolt and Popular revolt in late medieval Europe causes)

Another question, without relation is about the use of a traditional tool in agriculture, in spanish is named Trillo, in English can be translated as Threshing-board or Threshing-sledge. Is it correct?

Thanks--Locutus Borg File:Logo-Borg.gif, Talk to me 10:01, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

"Resistance is fuedal." :-) StuRat 14:45, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

South Atlantic SAA Incident May/June 1982

I remembered reading somewhere about how a South African Airways airliner was nearly shot down by mistake by a British warship in 1982 over the South Atlantic while the plane was en-route from South Africa to somewhere in South America. The warship was on its way to the Falklands. The article said something about mistaking it with an Argentine Boeing 707 that was supposed to be shadowing the Task Force. I can’t find anything on the internet about this incident. Can anyone on this esteemed panel shed light on this incident?--Jcw69 10:46, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Haircut name?

What is the haircut worn by and called? 83.252.72.10 11:26, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Take a look at Hairstyle and take your pick. --hydnjo talk 12:25, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

The New York Times calls Reagan's do a "40s-style pompadour." - Nunh-huh 17:29, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

• I want to know the name of Steve Ballmer's haircut. Isn't he going out of his way and bending over backwards to prove that he doesn't care about his looks while amassing billions of dollars. Hee-hawPatchouli 13:49, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

• That doesn't appear to be a haircut, but rather male-pattern baldness. I may detect a slight comb over, however, if that's what you're referring to. Personally, I think bald looks better than whatever Donald Trump has living on his head. StuRat 14:35, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

 :Donald Trump has got actual hair on top of his head.  He pulled the hair on top of his hair to show its realness in a 2005 interview with Newsweek.Patchouli 17:57, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

• These guys should use a minuscule portion of their assets to implant hair on their heads instead to deciding to take their money to their graves.Patchouli 15:33, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

• "Liar, liar, your hair's on fire!" --Halcatalyst 17:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

BE(Mech) pass from S S Govt Engineering college

Question moved from Help Desk. Road Wizard 12:19, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

I would like to know whether 1990 pass out BE(Mech) from S S Govt Engineering College,Bhavnagar,Gujarat is eligible for AMIE membership and Chartered Engineership.

Thanks S K Joshi

You might find information you need in the AMIE article. I see that there is a link to the organization there; you will probably need to ask them. --Halcatalyst 17:24, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia Policy on Philosophy of Science topics

First my background - I have a Masters degree in philosophy, with emphases on philosophy of science, ancient philosophy, and the history of ideas. I have been following a number of articles on topics that are traditionally tagged as pseudoscience in nature or discussion of philosophy or sociology of science such as Pathological skepticism and a more controversial article misnamed Objective validity of astrology. Much material that describes the viewpoints of people who hold these views. In the first topic, information on the views of the likes of well-known philosophers of science such as Paul Feyerabend and Thomas Kuhn is being deleted due to the claims that philosophers who hold these views are dubious (which seems to mean to some editors, they are not lab scientists publishing in Nature). In the second article, the topic is up for deletion because it references studies produced inside the astrological community - it reflects the beliefs of some astrologers that there may be a scientific basis to astrology. This article is being voted on for deletion by editors who think this information is not scientific so not appropriate for wikipedia. I think the article is valuable by showing attempts to prove or disprove with statistical studies - it reflects the state of affairs on a very popular topic, astrology. How can an encyclopedia be a forum for any anonymous person of any educational background to decide upon scientific validity. Shouldn't an encyclopedia be a place to survey writing and thoughts in a field? Not prove or disprove? Should 'just the facts' apply to editors who are believers as well as skeptics?

It seems that discussion of philosophy of science and information about people who believe in pseudoscientific (a loaded word itself, says some philosophers of science) is considered inappropriate for wikipedia. Topics that are in the domain of the humanities are being treated as though they are in the domain of natural sciences.

A crude uninformed censorship seems to have much support here. Can someone from humanities weigh in here, or does scientism hold the weight on wiki?

Very concerned,

Zeusnoos 13:58, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

I only skimmed this comment but I second the sentiment. Glance through the page history and the comment history of Nostradamus and you'll see what I mean. Basically, the issue is that wikipedia editors with scientific training seem to think that "neutral point if view" means that objective facts take precendence over popular belief. For example, if there's an extensive literature on the occurrance of impossible things, communities discussing this, etc, the article subject Society for the Study of Contemporary Occurances of Impossible Things (SSCOIT) should contain, in the minds of these editors, essentially the single sentence "By definition impossible things cannot happen. For occurances of unlikely things, see Unlikely Occurances. For occurances of things previously thought impossible, see Occurances Previously Thought Impossible. The rest of this article focuses on the beliefs and writings of Society for the Study of Contemporary Occurances of Impossible Things (SSCOIT)." However, in fact, the rest of the article will contain a vitriolic "debunking" of SSCOIT's views. Why? Because to a scientist the "neutral" point of view is to share the fact that impossible things by definition can't and don't happen, that if they do they must not have been impossible, and if anyone writes otherwise the neutral point of view is to debunk their writings. This is just misinformation on the part of the editors: the neutral point of view is to share major parties views on (at least among serious parties) more or less an equal-opportunity basis. Thus for any article that reports views no serious scientist holds or even holds worthy of refutation (since these views do not get published in serious journals), a single prominent sentence making the view of scientists clear should suffice. It should be obvious that views that have no scholarly proponents do not generate much scholarly literature, except perhaps anthropological. In these cases the article is not a science article, but an anthropological/sociological one (despite claims by the parties quoted that their subject belongs to science.) 82.131.186.145 14:26, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

It seems to me that what is needed is to keep valid science isolated from psuedoscience, much as teaching Intelligent Design is fine when it's presented as what it is, an attempt by religion to make their preexisting beliefs seem scientific, but it's not fine when presented as if it's a valid scientific theory with a level of acceptance by the scientific community on par with the Theory of Evolution. I would be happy with titling psuedoscience articles as such, say Intelligent Design (psuedoscience), and then including a paragraph in the article on why it is so classified. StuRat 14:29, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

In the case of astrology, some proponents suggest or assert that it is a science, while others do not but think it more as a religion. The problem then is whether or not the viewpoints and studies of those who think it can be validated by science (along with criticism of these studies) should be presented at all on WP. Some editors think the material, which reflects how astrology as a popular culture phenomenon is thought, should be removed altogether. Zeusnoos 15:44, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

The first case looks to me like pretty bad case of either someone not knowing what NPOV really means, or not knowing much about the philosophy of science and who counts as a notable voice. I think if the additions were rewritten as prose, though, and the views were more directly attributed, it would be less of an issue. Having it be a list with a list of references at the bottom is easy to see as possibly being OR and not being well-attributed to whose views they are. --Fastfission 19:26, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

World Cup stadium

I've heard rumours that Albert Speer jr. (or his architecture firm) has built one of the stadiums for the World Cup 2006. Could someone confirm or deny this?

• This source say the AS&P firm built the Munich stadium. Road Wizard 14:19, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
  • The source I just quoted may not be reliable. The article on Munich's Allianz Arena names Herzog & de Meuron as the architects. Road Wizard 14:50, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
    • [16] says AS&P did "site analysis, test designs, negotiations, coordination". So it looks like they were subcontractors, perhaps, or a failed bid? Shimgray | talk | 16:27, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

TV - longest running show?

What is the longest running show - à la Young and the Restless and The Simpsons - on TV? Jack Daw 15:08, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

I think there will be quite a few shows that claim that title (e.g. longest running show by number of episodes, longest running show by time from first episode to last). Do you want to limit your question to a particular country, or are you interested in the world wide position? The Sky at Night from the UK is claimed to be the "longest running show with the same presenter". Road Wizard 15:17, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

In the U.S., Gunsmoke (20 years) is often mentioned as the longest running drama. If you count weekly news shows, Meet the Press has been on forever -- I think the first episode carried live footage of the birth of Christ. --Kevin Myers | (complaint dept.) 17:09, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Last of the Summer Wine is the longest running comedy series in the world, at 23 years, although shows like The Simpsons have more episodes (350+ to LotSW's 240). smurrayinchester^{(User), (Talk)} 17:24, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

I was thinking more along the lines of programs like Friends, or Sex and the City, Days of our Lives, Simpsons, etc. There's gotta be a common name for "fiction" tv-shows :D Anyway, the longest running I've stumbled upon so far is actually The young and the restless, premiering in 1973. Jack Daw 17:52, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

• If you're including soap operas, then Guiding Light is the longest running one on television, having a continuous television run since 1952. And it had started on radio in 1937. --Metropolitan90 18:10, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Inge Bandekow

Hi. I have been reading about Hitler and his peers on Wiki, but one person I am curious about, doesn't even have a red-link on her name. I would love it if someone would write a page on "Inge Bandekow" who married Harald Quandt, the surviving son of the Goebbels family. Thanks!! --71.8.83.75 16:48, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Harald Quandt was a step-son, not a son, of Joseph Goebbels. His wife Inge and their children are mentioned in his article. now she has a red link; if anyone knows enough, they'll write it. - Nunh-huh 16:58, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

This is not the place to ask for new articles. You can search for "Inge Bandekow" and a screen will come up inviting you to strart the new article. If you don't want to, you will find an opportunity there to request the article. That's how it's done. :-) --Halcatalyst 17:10, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, that's a highly complex mechanism for requesting articles, involving navigting through a series of pages, and I'm not terribly certain that many requested pages are ever written. If the questioner can figure out which of the hundreds of subpages to request it on, I suppose asking there might slightly increase the chances of having an article on the subject... :) The Reference Desk is certainly the place to ask for information; we just don'tt seem to have enough to offer to make an article out of. - Nunh-huh 17:24, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

I have to admit I never tried to request an article using that method. Are there better ways? --Halcatalyst 19:59, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

I'd love to hear if anyone had had any recent requests actually honored from those pages. They are so huge I think any requests are pretty much lost. I think making red links to point to the requested subject, or asking for information here, or on the talk page of related articles, is probably a more efficient way. Red links will show up in Wikipedia:Most wanted articles if there are enough of them<G>. - Nunh-huh 20:10, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Where can I find this video?

Does anyone know where I could find a video of yesterday's press conference between President George W. Bush and Prime Minster Rasmussen of Denmark? --Shadarian 17:03, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

metal and big beat genre

there is a genre (or a sub-genre) of metal that is metal with big beat???

metal recorder

the previous question reminded me that I posted this about a week ago, no real answer (someone thought I might have a tin whistle). I wouldn't like to just change the article, which is well-referenced, and the fact I have a metal recorder isn't much of a reference. I'd like to find a reference on the internet to other metal recorders so that, citing them, I can change the article (Recorder). Thank you. 87.97.8.244 18:28, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Vauxhall Advert song

What is the name of the song from the new Vauxhall advert shown in the UK? ITs the one with the car 'surfing' or something through the water. Its kinda.. folky or something. Dunno but its kinda catchy. Thanks.