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June 16

Hypothetical questions about copyright law

This section was vandalised by 204.50.48.150 at 20:17, 19 June 2006 (UTC). Though the damage has now been repaired, any comments left after that time may reflect the confusion caused by the damage and should be treated with caution. Road Wizard 19:13, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I have a couple questions about copyright law. It need not be confined to U.S. law.

1. If an artist dies before completing a work, can it be protected by copyright law as though it were complete? For instance, if a famous author created a plot or several chapters of a book, but never finished it, would it be treated as a finished work?

2. This next question is more abstract. If an author finished, say, nine of ten chapters of a book, but left the final chapter unwritten (but its content strongly implied), could another author write the final chapter and make money from it, perhaps by selling it as a "companion" to the unfinished work? Or would copyright law prevent this? Are the implications of the author protected by copyright? Bhumiya (said/done) 00:19, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Answers: 1. You can copyright just about anything if its more than a few sentences long. My science teacher regularly coprights the lab worksheets he rights.

2. I don't know, sorry. Emmett5 03:28, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

For 1., see Copyright#Obtaining and enforcing copyright. There's no necessity for a work to be finished before it is copyrighted; under most laws the copyright comes automatically with the act of writing it.

For 2., yes, copyright law typically prevents this as a derivative work unless it's a satire (see Fanfiction#Legal issues in the United States and abroad).

Please note that I'm not a lawyer, so if it's a real legal issue you should talk to someone who knows what they're talking about :) Ziggurat 03:36, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

These are very interesting questions. For an account of a remarkably similar scenario, check out Franz Kafka's The Trial. Kafka actually died before completing this work, which nonetheless is seen by most as his masterpiece. In fact, as is not entirely unusual for many artists, he utterly despised everything that he wrote, and explicitly instructed his good friend Max Brod to burn all of his unpublished works upon his death.

Kafka then died and Brod was faced with an incredibly difficult dilemma: What was worse? To follow Kafka's ridiculous instructions and deny the world this literary masterpiece? Or to ignore what was basically the last will and testament of a dead man concerning the disposition of his own rightful property? Fortunately for all of us, Brod chose the latter, despite the moral ambiguity of his choice.

(In fact, this question seems a bit too similar to the scenario discussed above concerning Kafka. Is the questioner perhaps entertaining the thought of writing the final chapters of The Trial that Kafka never got around to finishing, and then trying to copyright it? I know, I know, assume good faith, assume good faith, assume good faith...I think I'll have those three words tatooed on my forehead. After all, these must surely be purely hypothetical questions). Loomis51 21:41, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

No, nothing so sinister. I was just wondering about the limitations of intellectual property law. I was imagining what might happen if a major contemporary author, e.g. Philip Roth or Salman Rushdie, began writing a novel, but never finished it. Even if the unfinished work were copyrighted, which it no doubt would be, the story would be left open. What would prevent an enterprising author from writing a veiled conclusion to the novel, wrapping up the themes but not actually using the original names of the characters, etc? Eventually someone starts a rumor about the nature of the novel, which creates interest, and the rest you can imagine for yourself. The work is certainly derivative, but if it is derived only from the themes of the original unfinished work, which are arguably universal, then how can the author be prosecuted? Probably not an issue of pressing import, but there we are. Bhumiya (said/done) 22:46, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

No worries, Bhumiya, I pretty much knew you weren't planning anything like that. I just tend to have this incorrigible cynical streak that always seems to question the motivation behind a question. It's actually gotten me into a bit of a mess here at Wiki, but I digress.

What you're talking about is actually a very interesting theme in the philosophy of IP (Intellectual Property) law. On the one hand, all art is derivative. Name me one love story that wasn't inspired, to at least some degree, albeit probably unintentionally, indirectly and completely unconsciously, to Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet.

But Shakespeare's been dead for centuries, and as such there is no copyright violation in reproducing his works. Contemporary authors, however, are a completely different story.

When it comes to contemporary artists, the law is at best rather vague and arbitrary. For example, in music, I believe there are a certain number of "bars" that you can legally reproduce from a copyrighted piece of music into a new piece. Some other areas are a bit fuzzy. Are you familiar with the legal mess that George Harrison got into when one of his songs, My Sweet Lord, was determined to be too similar to another song by the Chiffons and therefore a copyright infringement? IP is a very fuzzy area of law, and I honestly couldn't give you a definite answer as to how a court would react to your scenario. Sorry that I couldn't be of much help in actually answering the question, but I hope I at least gave you something of an understanding of basic IP law. Loomis51 00:55, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

No, this is all very helpful. I was just curious as to whether such a situation had come up. Thanks for the responses! Bhumiya (said/done) 06:44, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

If God exists

This section was vandalised by 204.50.48.150 at 20:17, 19 June 2006 (UTC). Though the damage has now been repaired, any comments left after that time may reflect the confusion caused by the damage and should be treated with caution. Road Wizard 19:13, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Question moved here from Wikipedia:Reference desk/Science by JackofOz

If God exists and the Jews are indeed God's chosen people, why did he allow his people to suffer and almost be wiped out during the holocaust? Why didn't he choose to smite the Nazis? --84.65.185.138 00:23, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

God doesn't exist.  :-) -Quasipalm 00:25, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

If Santa Claus knows who's naughty and who's nice, why does everyone (except Jews, Muslims, etc.) get Christmas presents? (Cj67 00:32, 16 June 2006 (UTC))

Test of faith? If you have ever read the old testament, you will know that God can be a bit of a bastard to his 'chosen people' like that. I suppose that you *could* argue that God smote Hitler with madness and delivered the Nazis into the hands of their enemies... --Kurt Shaped Box 00:44, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

This is in essence the problem of evil; why does evil exist in a world with an omniscient, omnipotent God? There are many proposed explanations. Some people believe it has to do with free will; that is, we have free will to choose our path. In this philosophy, God could control any or all of us, but in a sense, this is "boring", animating people is like playing with a doll's house. Giving people free will and letting them interact and evolve is far more "interesting". This philosophy tends to a posit a god who interferes little with humanity or the universe, but is more of a creator-turned-spectator. — Knowledge Seeker দ 00:58, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

This isn't a question that science can answer. You would do better to ask a theologian or a philosopher. —Bkell (talk) 01:02, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Or play Black & White... -- Миборовский 01:09, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Yeah... I really don't think this question ahs ANY scientific value... Try humanities, or talk to a Rabbi or a philosopher. Political Mind 01:28, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Where did you get the idea that God should prevent "evil" things happening and allow only "good" things to happen? Who told you that that is the way God operates, or should operate? Why do you have such human expectations of an intrinsically non-human being? If you accept there is an omnipotent, omniscient and eternal being who created the entire universe, how can you simultaneously question the infinite wisdom of such a being? I'm reminded of King Alfonso IX (dubbed "The Wise") who said "Had I been present at the creation, I would have given some useful hints for the better ordering of the universe". (Nice one, Al). Just as learning cannot occur without mistakes, justice cannot exist without injustice, at an individual level and at a societal level. That is not to condone or rationalise away any injustices that have ever been done to the Jews or any other society, but to realise there is a divine purpose behind everything. Not just the things we'd like there to be a divine purpose behind, but everything without exception. (Thus endeth today's lesson.) JackofOz 01:58, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

So, what is the divine purpose behind the holocaust? And why can't justice occur without injustice? --Bowlhover 03:27, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

I never claimed to know what the divine purpose of anything is. I just believe there is one. It makes life worth living. Without injustice, there would be no need to make the distinction between the 2 concepts. Things would just be as they are, neither just nor unjust. It's only because injustice occurs that humans then perceive a need for justice. In that sense, justice defines itself out of our primordial egoic yearnings. A world that is always just would be like the Garden of Eden before the fall, or Utopia. Not only boring, but destined not to stay that way. That's the thing about humans. We create the seeds of our own destruction, but we are also the agents of our own salvation. "We are blended creatures, half-abject and half-divine". JackofOz 08:11, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Um...this isn't science. Where would a question like this go? --M1ss1ontomars2k4 ^{(T | C | @)} 04:59, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Questions of classification, nomenclature and taxonomy are of great important to science. (lol) JackofOz 06:26, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Question I always want an answer for is, if God is omniscient, then he knows exactly what the consequences of his actions and words are. He knew when he told Adam 'Don't touch that fruit' that saying it in that way (incidentally to someone with no concept of right or wrong) would lead to him eating the fruit. He would also (being omnipotent and omniscient) know a way of wording it such that Adam had completely free will, but would choose not to exercise it in this case. If God is all powerful, he effectively manipulated events to make Adam break the rule he gave him. God's a bastard. What have I missed? Skittle 09:21, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Do you believe the story in Genesis is literally true, Skittle? It's no more literally true than creating the world on Day 3 and creating the fish on Day 5 and the land animals on Day 6. There's no point using an obviously made up myth to prove that God is a bastard. Besides, God couldn't be a bastard because he'd need parents who weren't married. Not only didn't he have unmarried parents, he didn't have parents at all. He created himself out of nothing (mystery 1), but at no particular time (mystery 2), and yet he has always existed (mystery 3) and always will (mystery 4). You can't apply human concepts of morality to God and expect him to conform. He's pulling the strings, not us. JackofOz 10:33, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Well of course I don't. But some people do, and they must have an answer that satisfies them. Personally I think the whole concept of free will is a jip if you've got an omnipotent, omniscient god involved. But then I think free will is a jip anyway, so let's leave it at that... The question is really directed at people who a) believe Genesis is literally true b) believe Adam and Eve's actions were a 'fall' c) believe in an omniscient, omnipotent god d) have thought about this sort of thing. Of course, if someone else knows what their standard response is to this sort of thing, that would do too. Skittle 10:38, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Back to the original question, and if you really want to believe in God (and who am I to stop you?) then the Biblical/Tanakh Book of Job might provide a plausible piece of reasoning. Grutness...wha? 10:55, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Oh, great. We get everyone who wants to make fun of religion. Wonderful. For the question itself, remember the Talmud: "On the sufferings of the virtuous or the prosperity of the wicked, we can say nothing." Let's start, though, by realizing that death cannot be an evil for the pious. If it were, then all humanity would be an example of wickedness, as all persons are fated to die. Second, death occurring early or late must not be, from a cosmic point of view, a sign of justice or injustice. Third, the sufferings of the Elect are pain and unjust in human terms and yet, in a larger sense, may not be. Fourth, God did smite the Nazis. They're not running the world now, are they? Fifth, demanding that only the evil suffer and the good to always prosper is to insist on a world where, for example, any poor person would be wicked and any wealthy person would be favored by God. Sixth, if God has never made the material conditions of the virtuous reflect their spiritual worth in such a minor and obvious way as bank balance, then why would you presume to judge God's will in history by the sufferings of the holocaust? Geogre 12:57, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

I've got plenty of ideas on the subject, but no need to worry, people. I won't DARE touch this question! I've learnt my lesson! Loomis51 21:07, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

I think you are looking for Problem of evil. DJ Clayworth 19:10, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

See theodicy or, more specifically, Holocaust theology, which came about as an attempt to reconcile the events of the Holocaust with Jewish theology. But if you want my opinion, the concept of God is incoherent and self-contradictory. God is a square triangle, a married bachelor, a teapot orbiting Mars, a known existence without a known essence, a cluster of incompatible epithets and abstract superlatives. The persecution of Jews is an all-too-human problem, just like the persecution of Kurds, Ainu, infidels, queers, etc. It's sociological, not celestial. Bhumiya (said/done) 23:09, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I can't help it, here's my two cents: Yes the concept of "God" is an incredibly incomprehensible one. It's full of paradoxes, such as the omnipotence paradox etc... Put simply, God, should s/he exist, is simply beyond our tiny primate brains to comprehend.

But, at the same time, should we turn to science for some more rational, comprehensible answers to those same mysteries of the universe, we inevitably run into a series of remarkably similar paradoxes, such as: If the universe "began" with the "Big Bang", what was going on the day before? If the universe is ever expanding but of a finite area, should one somehow reach the end of the universe, what exists one foot beyond that ultimate end to space as we know it? The most likely scientific answer to both of these questions would simply be "nothingness".

I realize that "God" may be a concept that is quite simply beyond our meagre human minds to grasp, but, at the same time, I would argue, so is the completely incomprehensible concept of "nothingness". Just as Bhumiya describes the concept of God, "nothingness" can equally be described as "incoherent and self-contradictory. ["Nothingness"] is a square triangle, a married bachelor, a teapot orbiting Mars etc...

In MY opinion, atheism is actually remarkably similar religion. Both consist of the belief in the unprovable. The religious firmly believe in the ultimately unprovable existence of God, while atheists firmly believe in the ultimately unprovable concept that God does not exist. Both are beliefs in the unprovable. In MY opinion, (though I personally am not an agnostic), the natural "scientific" position on the existence or non-existence of God is agnosticism. Science simply has no proof either way. Loomis51 01:40, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

God is not responsible for the actions of people, he is not a divine scapegoat, someone you can always turn to and say "why the fuck did you let that happen". If thats is your view, that is a very selfish take on things. Philc _T^E_C^I 23:45, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Loomis51, you misunderstand the Big Bang and should read up before making comments. The universe is space and time. There is no "day before the big bang" because time didn't exist the way it does now. Also, since the universe by definition is all inclusive, it's not expanding into space, space itself is expanding. The theory of the big bang creates some difficult questions, but it's no where as messy as the theory of god. -Quasipalm 00:44, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

You're absolutely right, Quasipalm, I totally misunderstand the Big Bang theory. In fact I'd even go further to say that I'm incapable of fully understanding the concept, and I probably never will be, no matter how much I read up on it (yes I've read the wiki article, but to no avail, it's simply beyond my grasp). Apparently your intellect is greater than mine on this area, as you seem to be able to fully grasp the concept of a "period", (for lack of a better term,) when "time didn't exist as it does now", but I simply cannot. Also, with regards to the expanding universe, I never said that the universe is expanding into space. That would be a rather easy concept to understand. Quite the opposite. Space is a void. What "exists" (or doesn't "exist" for that matter) beyond that void, is even more difficult to comprehend. Essentially it's not simply a void as simple space is, but a void devoid of void. Perhaps it's all crystal clear to you, but for me it's all too completely incomprehensible of a mess for my tiny primate brain to grasp. My point remains the same. If we (excluding those of us who claim to understand them so clearly) are willing to somehow accept the concept of these "incomprehensibles", I just think it's rather presumptuous of us to dismiss the possibility of yet another "incomprehensible", that being, the existence of a Supreme Being. Loomis51 10:50, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

People sometimes use the holocaust as some sort of argument against the existence of God. "Bad things" are in enormous abundance all around us all the time (maybe we should start a list on Wikipedia). So let's not get hung up on one particular "bad thing" (ok, to some people, the worst thing). It's not that bad things happen, that's a given - it's what we do about them that matters. That's why Victor Frankl's message is eternal. "Man's search for meaning" is what we're all here for. If nothing else, that was one "very good thing" to come from the holocaust. JackofOz 00:34, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

That is like the question why does God let bad things happen good people. The reason why is because God gives people free will. With free will unfortunatly some will do extremely evil things.

Wayne Wilcox

Does anybody have any information on Wayne Wilcox, American actor/singer? I checked the article, and it was only a stub. If someone could expand it... Political Mind 00:52, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

k. 175

This section was vandalised by 204.50.48.150 at 20:17, 19 June 2006 (UTC). Though the damage has now been repaired, any comments left after that time may reflect the confusion caused by the damage and should be treated with caution. Road Wizard 19:13, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Okay, this is a weird question, but is Mozart's 5th piano concerto, k. 175, considered one of his forgettable immature works? KeeganB

It is fairly famous, I am very familiar with it. However, he does have more famous works, definetely. Political Mind 01:09, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

It's not forgettable, but it's not great music either. However it is interesting as being the first of his piano concertos that was all his own work, ie. it wasn't an arrangement of the music of other composers. I suppose if the catalogue of his works was being redone from scratch, it would be renamed Piano (or Keyboard) Concerto No 1. JackofOz 08:23, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Oh, and when you also separate out the concertos for 2 pianos and 3 pianos, the number of Mozart's concertos for solo piano that were original works turns out to be 21 (not 27). Still a healthy number. Is this a record for piano concertos? JackofOz 00:47, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

How to log in

This section was vandalised by 204.50.48.150 at 20:17, 19 June 2006 (UTC). Though the damage has now been repaired, any comments left after that time may reflect the confusion caused by the damage and should be treated with caution. Road Wizard 19:13, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I tried to set up an account. I was asked for my user name and a password. I tried to do this but apparently my user name was inappropriate! What did I miss. Thanks, Harry M. Mahn

Information on usernames (including which are inappropriate and why) can be found here. You may also want to check Help:Logging in. Ziggurat 01:42, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Now you've got me curious. If you told us the name maybe we can explain why it was considered "inappropriate". I'm assuming, since you were apparently very surprised from the response you got, that the name you chose wasn't vulgar or offensive. Of course this may be personal or sensitive information and you have every right to keep it private. If you don't want to reveal the name I fully understand. (Nonetheless, I'm so curious!...pleeeeease? lol) Loomis51 20:57, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't know the original contributor, but I can say that Wikipedia has a username policy that prohibits account names that use terms like "hacker" or "vandal", names that could be easily mistaken for another user, names that are identical to celebrities, and names that seem to advertise a particular company or product. There are other restrictions as well, but you get the idea. --Tachikoma 13:43, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Queston: German POWs held in France after WW I

I have heard German soldiers held as POWs during WW I were held on after that war to do labor as part of German reparations to France.

I have tried to find out more on this subject but am unable to do so.

Do you know anything about this subject?

KingArt

Information

This section was vandalised by 204.50.48.150 at 20:17, 19 June 2006 (UTC). Though the damage has now been repaired, any comments left after that time may reflect the confusion caused by the damage and should be treated with caution. Road Wizard 19:13, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Dear Sir/Madam I am currently researching Reynold Alleyne Nicholson's work on Rumi's Masnavi (done in eight volumes, published between 1925-1940). Could you please send me any information concerning this work, if you have, or show me where I can give the information about R.A. Nicholson and his work. From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia I could find only some words about him.

Thanks in advance Manizha

Here is a bibliographic reference to this work: The Mathnawí of Jalálu'ddín Rúmí, edited from the oldest manuscripts available, with critical notes, translation and commentary by Reynold A. Nicholson, in 8 volumes, London: Messrs Luzac & Co., 1925–1940. Contains the text in Persian. First complete English translation of the Mathnawí. The book is still in print: [1] [2], although it is not quite clear what one will get for one's money: one cover mentions books III and IV, the other books V and VI. But this: [3] is probably complete. Does this answer your question? If not, could you please be more specific about the kind of information you are looking for? --Lambiam^Talk 14:33, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Music: Chamillionaire's association with Motown Records

This section was vandalised by 204.50.48.150 at 20:17, 19 June 2006 (UTC). Though the damage has now been repaired, any comments left after that time may reflect the confusion caused by the damage and should be treated with caution. Road Wizard 19:13, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I answered my own question. Chamillionaire is a Universal Records artist sold under the Motown imprint. I'm off to change the Wiki article.

Source 1 Source 2

Excellent. --Proficient 11:22, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Ich bin ein Berliner

This section was vandalised by 204.50.48.150 at 20:17, 19 June 2006 (UTC). Though the damage has now been repaired, any comments left after that time may reflect the confusion caused by the damage and should be treated with caution. Road Wizard 19:13, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

does anybody know of a website where they have video or audio of JFK's "Ich bin ein Berliner" speech?

This page has copies of a number of important speeches: http://durov.com/speeches.htm, and the one you are looking for is here: http://www.rechi.ru/jfkberlinaddress.mp3 You can find more information on it here: http://apella.ac-limoges.fr:16080/lyc-perrier-tulle/europ/history/dochist/speeches/term/JFK_berlin.htm --Valentinian ^(talk) 08:48, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Twin Cities

This section was vandalised by 204.50.48.150 at 20:17, 19 June 2006 (UTC). Though the damage has now been repaired, any comments left after that time may reflect the confusion caused by the damage and should be treated with caution. Road Wizard 19:13, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Dear Madame/ Sir

I've been recently researching the life of Vlad III Tepes, Prince of Wallachia, and I've come across the article of Târgoviste, Wallachia's Capital. On that article I found reference to the expressions "Twin Cities". The article refers to several Twin Towns as an example and although I've already researched the term "Twin Cities" I couldn't find a relation between the examples given in the Târgoviste article and the meaning of the expression "Twin Cities". Can You clarify the meaning for me please?

Thank you Diogo Vieira Neves

In this context, a twin city is the same as a "sister city". It normally means that the two cities have official visits and cultural exchanges from each other from time to time. Apart from local politicians; school classes or musical bands are also favourites to be sent to the other town. Very often, the arrangement also means that local politicians try to find possible trading partners for their own industries / factories in the other town. You can read more at Town twinning. The idea became a European trend following World War II, as a way of establishing peaceful contacts to other cultures / old enemies. A pretty new idea at the time. The European Union runs a programme to support such initiatives. Valentinian ^(talk) 13:09, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Civil Rights-American Political Movements

I am searching for the origin and connotation of step'nfetch it. Perhaps Uncle Tom's Cabin. I know the general meaning. Thanks--- The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.238.217.204.

I believe it began as a character on a radio show. Geogre 12:52, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Stepin Fetchit was an African American actor who played many stereotypical roles in early Hollywood. User:Zoe|^(talk) 16:57, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

What precise date were two 1974 albums released

I am trying to track down the precise release date for two songs that were both released _sometime_ in 1974. One is "Bad Detective" by New York Dolls (from their album Too Much Too Soon. The other is "Kung Fu Fighting" by Carl Douglas which was a #1 single. Both use a musical phrase known as the Asian Riff. My question is-- which of these two songs came first? Obviously, recording or composition date for each song would be ideal, but I'll settle for release date. How do you find the release date for 1974 songs? --Alecmconroy 13:22, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

What you need is the archives of the record charts. You say that Kung Fu Fighting was a No.1 single, so you need to find out what date it was in the charts. Then do the same for the New York Dolls album, if it made the charts that is. I've just found Hot 100 number-one hits of 1974 (USA), which shows that Kung Fu Fighting was at #1 on Dec 7. As you say, though, it may have been written and recorded months earlier.

I doubt that the complete album charts are available online, because people like Billboard (and Guinness in the UK) make money by selling their books. So the New York Dolls date might be trickier to track down, unless you look in a book. --Richardrj 13:59, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Aha-- well, making progress. Thanks for the Dec 7 info. Now I just need the album chart- hopefully someone who has the book will turn up.--Alecmconroy 16:36, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

passports

How long does it usually take to renew an expired passport?

In the U.S., several weeks, I think -- but you can pay extra for expedited processing. AnonMoos

In the UK, it seems to depend on the season you submit your request: over the summer season, it can take as long as three months (although there is a fast-track service). EvocativeIntrigue _{TALK | EMAIL} 14:03, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Trainspotting (Irvine Welsh book) - language question

I know this seems like a trivial matter, but i was just wondering as to what scottish people mean by the word 'Draftpak' which crops uf frequently in Irvine Welsh's novel Trainspotting. It seems to be a container for carrying beer, but the characters also refer to people they don't like and consider beneath them as 'Draftpaks' so I was hoping someone would clear up the meaning(s) of the word for me. thank you very much.

Moved question to language reference desk. EvocativeIntrigue _{TALK | EMAIL} 13:58, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Revealed Knowledge of the Prophecies and Times by Nathaniel Brassey Halhed dated 1794

This section was vandalised by 204.50.48.150 at 20:17, 19 June 2006 (UTC). Though the damage has now been repaired, any comments left after that time may reflect the confusion caused by the damage and should be treated with caution. Road Wizard 19:13, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Dear Sir/ Madam

I have a book written by Nathaniel Brassey Halhed dated 1795. The title of this book is Revealed knowledge of the Prophecies and Times and Restoration of the Hebrews.

This appears to be an original book judging by the appeareance of the paper and of the cover, it is in good condition and legible.

Would you be able to tell me anything about his book?

Its value and perhaps who might be interested in it.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

regards, Claudia

Start by looking at Nathaniel Brassey Halhed. As far as your book goes, what it's worth is what people are prepared to pay for it. I looked him up on a couple of rare book websites, and there was no mention of your book, but others by him seem to go for anything between $200 and $1000. So you might have a valuable item on your hands. --Richardrj 14:25, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Are you sure it is not this book: A REVEALED KNOWLEDGE OF THE PROPHECIES AND TIMES, Book the First, wrote under the direction of the LORD GOD and published by His Sacred Command, it being the first sign of Warning for the benefit of All Nations; Containing with other great and remarkable things not revealed to any other Person on Earth, the Restoration of the Hebrews to Jerusalem by the year of 1798 under their revealed Prince and Prophet. London, Printed in the year of Christ 1794., which was allegedly written by Richard Brothers? As to the value, next to the rarity, a lot depends on the condition of the book, and even for a ballpark assessment you will need appraisal by an expert. --Lambiam^Talk 17:37, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

heaven

This section was vandalised by 204.50.48.150 at 20:17, 19 June 2006 (UTC). Though the damage has now been repaired, any comments left after that time may reflect the confusion caused by the damage and should be treated with caution. Road Wizard 19:13, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Hey. If there's a heaven and hell, what do you believe? do you believe that if ur good you go to heaven because u had a good life or u go to hell because now its the opposite turn. u had a good life and now deserve a bad...? and plus, on wikipedia its not physically described but is maybe true how heaven is the place of not only peace but luxury and dreams?

We believe. Everyone believes in something.

That depends on your definition of belief. I know of at least one philosopher who regards the concept of belief as invalid. Bhumiya (said/done) 23:19, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

For myself, I do believe. Plenty of things. And I discover what is good or bad for my brothers and sisters everyday. For the moment being, I don't believe in a heavenly retaliation nor care for heaven, but who knows ? --DLL 18:53, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't believe in either, but anything's possible. --Alex.dsch 18:54, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

No, only possible things are possible. Obviously contradictory things aren't possible. ("An object whose existence prevents its existing or having ever existed"). 82.131.188.130 23:49, 16 June 2006 (UTC).

I am not sure, but isn´t a Christian supposed to admit that he is a sinner, beg forgiveness for his sins, accept the love and forgiveness of Jesus, worship and love God, BEFORE he can go to heaven? Your name has to written down in a "book of the good guys". Good deeds are suposedly simply not enough. Flamarande 20:47, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Not necessarily. There's always sola fide. Personally, I agree with the great Epicurus:

Death is nothing to us; for that which has been dissolved into its elements experiences no sensations, and that which has no sensation is nothing to us.

So as I see it, it's not a question of "where you go", but what you do with the time you have. Bhumiya (said/done) 23:19, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

The Catholic position is that the sum total of all your good deeds throughout your life counts for nothing if you happen to commit a mortal sin and die without an act of contrition. Like the chain is only as strong as its weakest link. JackofOz 00:01, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, sort of. Their point is that what counts is whether you are in sin or not, that each sin requires contrition, confession, and forgiveness by Christ. If that seems difficult, the opposing side of perserverance of the saints is just as troubling. The "once saved always saved" has led some people (some in the news recently) to argue that they are, indeed, supposed to be judging "sinners" and giving them grief because, when Jesus said "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone," they are, indeed, without sin and therefore should throw stones. I wish I were joking about that, but I'm not. I think most theologians settle for what Paul and James both said: faith without deeds is no faith, and deeds without faith are just random actions. Therefore, at death it would be faith and deeds, but perhaps not a ledgered account or Father Guido Sarducci's fine system. Geogre 13:54, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Bah, and you need priests for what? Basicly its the old story of the carrot and the stick. Religions tell you that you have to do good deeds so you will get to heaven (good reincarnation in budhism) and frighten you with: "if you do bad deeds you will go to hell (bad reincarnation in budhism)". If someone really believes in this, and follows these guidelines because of these reward/punishment threats then he isn´t really doing it out the "kindness of his heart" or "because he is really a good person". He is doing it because he craves the reward and fears the punishment. Under a certain point of view such a person has the moral sense of the "proverbial donkey". People who do good deeds and don´t expect nothing in return are the persons who really matter. Flamarande 23:59, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

municipality

A comment in this section was altered by 204.50.48.150 at 15:02, 20 June 2006 (UTC). Though the damage has now been repaired, any comments left after that time may reflect the confusion caused by the damage and should be treated with caution. Road Wizard 19:13, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

What is the largest municipality in the world by area? Not metropolitan area but just the municipality?

This might be helpful http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_size_%28area%29. --Proficient 11:25, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

JK31213: no actually that's still metropolitan areas. there's no way that city in australia is larger in area than tokyo or mexico city, as it appears on google earth.

i want just the municipality. urban area. Possibly mexico city.

June 17

Trying to remember a person

A while ago, I stumbled upon a Wikiquote article (there was one on Wikipedia, too) on a really interesting man. I think he was an officer in the American civil war who supported equal rights for women, was anti-slavery, very progressive. He was asked to run for governor of Illinois and refused because he was told he would have to pretend to be religious (he wasn't). A lot of his really interesting quotes were about religion and how belief in Hell was contrary to belief in a benevolent god. Does anyone know who he was? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Emmett5 (talk • contribs) .

You could look through Special:Whatlinkshere&target=Governor_of_Illinois and see if any of the article titles ring a bell for you.-gadfium 03:53, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Would that be Robert Green Ingersoll? --vibo56 ^talk 13:04, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it is. Thank you very much! Emmett5 19:02, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Heresy in non-Abrahamic religions

It's common to hear about heresy in discussion of Christianity (e.g. Cathars, Gnosticism, Protestantism), Islam (e.g. Al-Muqanna, Nation of Islam, Ahmadiyya), and Judaism (e.g. Reconstructionism). I have never heard the word used in reference to Hinduism, Buddhism, or any animistic or polytheistic religions. Is this just a matter of terminology, or are Abrahamic religions especially dogmatic? Bhumiya (said/done) 06:40, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Probably the answer is "both." Revealed religions have non-negotiable sets of truths, and God, in Abrahamic religions, is the only God and demands the recognition of no others. Combine the solitary truth of revelation with the demand of purity, and you have a requirement to be pure and of one teaching (ortho-doxy). Additionally, though, "heresy" isn't used in religions that don't have a central structure that approves religious views (no Vatican, no council, no sanhedrin, etc.). At the same time, Buddhism has huge splits in it, and Hinduism is amazingly diverse. Were there a central authority (and some versions of these religions have central authorities), there would be condemnation of the others, but I doubt "heresy" would be used. Geogre 11:52, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

The term is sometimes used in connection with Socrates' Trial, as in: The trial and condemnation of Socrates on charges of heresy and corrupting young minds is a defining moment in the history of Classical Athens.[4] And in the book A Survey of Hinduism by Klaus K. Klostermaier there is a chapter entitled "Hindu Dharma: Orthodoxy and Heresy in Hinduism".[5]. But of course the original context of the term is that of "orthodox" Christianity, and for something to be declared a heresy you need an authoritarian body safeguarding the purity of the one and only true belief, and therefore also a notion that there is such a thing as "the one and only true belief" in the first place.

Heresy is what the minority believe; it is the name given by the powerful to the doctrines of the weak. Robert Ingersoll

--Lambiam^Talk 15:13, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Postscriptum. Here is a lecture referring to heresy in "True Buddhism": [6]. --Lambiam^Talk 15:23, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Of course, neither Judaism nor Islam has a central religious authority, yet they have "heresy". Thanks for all the responses. I wasn't aware of the Hindu or Buddhist connections. Bhumiya (said/done) 15:50, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

I wouldn't say "of course." Both have and have-had, depending on your sect and time. There is no "Vatican" in either, but that's a long way from saying that there isn't a long and well ordered system of ensuring orthodoxy. Geogre 15:53, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Feelings for ex-partners

I have feelings for 3 ex-partners, and given the right circumstances, would get back together with each one (not at the same time, of course). So my question is: how common is this? (ie feelings for more than one ex). Please note this is not a request for ways to get over them. 132.181.7.1 07:05, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Surely it's normal. Oftentimes you see divorced/separated folks get back together. --Proficient 11:29, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Extremely common. They (provided you weren't completely off your tree when you got together with them) obviously have at least some of the traits which you find desirable in a partner, so it's not surprising that you still find find yourself interested in them. --Robert Merkel 11:40, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Writing a story

Well, I'm just trying out to write a detective story , to get rid off the boring hours of my summer vacation, here in India.I do know i'm a layman for that matter, & don't expect anything brilliant. But a few questions are troubling me before i proceed any further . These are : #1. Can i use the name of any reputed hotel/restaurant/bar etc. as the venue, in my story ? Will it cause any problem if it's published in the college-magazine/little-mag etc.? #2. Suppose i mention an innovative way of drug-trafficking/murder in the story - can i be involved in any legal issues- now, or later? #3. Should i give preference to ethics over reality ? Thanking you,--[[User:Pupunwiki]] 07:08, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

• The answers to #1 and #2 are probably "no big deal," if you have the standard "this is a work of fiction" disclaimer. At least in the US, dectective fiction is very commonly set in real places, and creative writing professors teach students to use as many actual brand names and locations as possible. (I disagree with that advice, but they don't let me near the writing students.) #3 is the interesting one. (You're about to find out why they don't let me near the writing students.) Essentially, you're asking Aristotle's questions from Poetics. Aristotle said that poetry (meaning all fiction) is superior to history because history merely tells us what happened, while poetry tells us what should or must happen. From this, and from Horace and Plutarch (Moralia) on the same subject, we ended up with the concept of poetic justice. The idea is that a greedy man will, in poetic justice, not prevail and that his downfall will be linked to his specific failure, to his greed. Modernism moved away from poetic justice because most Modernists felt that the world was too indifferent and the good too unknowable to dictate the fiction, and so most Modernists moved toward a different kind of poetic justice, a psychological poetic justice, where the external events may favor the vicious and punish the virtuous, but there would be a psychological vengeance, a psychological justice, one way or the other. Interestingly, detective fiction has always been the most conservative, morally. While everyone else wrote about an indifferent world and unrelenting suffering, most detective fiction (emphasis on "most," because not all) retained the literal poetic justice. The answer to #3, therefore, is "obeying ethics rather than reality will be more expected and palatable to readers, but obeying reality over ethics could be more rewarding." Geogre 12:02, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

I would just advise that you not use the product or place in a bad light, or they may sue you, but if it's just setting, they probably wouldn't mind the free advertising. User:Zoe|^(talk) 21:26, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Or you could use a pseudonym. Bhumiya (said/done) 03:51, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

       Thanks a lot for your kind suggestions.                                  
  I reconsidered about mentioning the name of any famous hotel etc. 
       etc. in the story, & have decided not to do so. I think
       a disclaimer, really shatters a reader's enthu , to a great
       extent, though it serves my purpose. 
    Secondly, i am not intented to harm the good-will of the said
       public places, neither would i do any free advertising('cause
       i'm not so generous).
    As far as pseudonym is concerned, i don't think it would prove
       to be a great help , once investigators involve me in
       a legal suit(after all i'm the bearer of the pseudonym).
             Thanks again,--59.93.255.177 12:04, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

-Pupunwiki

Another problem about using the name of a famous hotel, etc. is that if someone were more familiar than you with the hotel was to read your story, they'd find themselves "taken out" of the story as soon as you made a factual error. If you wrote of, say a shootout in the lobby of the Yanggakdo Hotel, sending the massive crystal chandelier crashing onto the grand piano, and covering the floor with exotic tropical fish, when I read your story, I'd have a hard time paying attention to the details of the shootout, and spend more time thinking "Hey... there isn't a chandelier there, and there sure isn't a grand piano. And the only thing in the fish tank is a really bored and sad looking sea turtle. This chap has no idea what he's talking about." --ByeByeBaby 06:00, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

wikipedia

what is the meanin og literature given by Henry van Dyke?

Portland, Oregon and palm trees

Do palm trees grow in Portland? If so, could someone show me any photos? Thanks. Un sogno modesto 08:49, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

No, Portland is too damp and cold for palm trees. They have more of a mediterranean climate, and a cool one at that, whereas palm trees prefer tropical and subtropical climates. According to our article on the Palm family, the northernmost palms grow at a latitude of 43 degrees in southern France; Portland is at 45.5 degrees. So the only palms in Portland would be growing inside, perhaps you might contact the Oregon Zoo. --ByeByeBaby 05:52, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

"Torbay palms" would be able to grow there (they're not real palms - they're a tree-like member of liliaceae, also known - in my part of the world - as Cabbage trees). Grutness...wha? 06:52, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

worldwide album and single sales

who has sold the most singles/albums worldwide? Elvis or Queen?

According to Guinness, The Beatles have sold the most physical albums, if this is what you mean. (link) Dar-Ape 21:10, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

I think the questioner is referring to singles -- 45's. Elvis Presley had the record for singles sales, by a good margin. I suppose the question is whether Queen passed him or not. Geogre 11:59, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Sabots/Clogs

What is the difference between a clog and a sabot?

None, except that the first word is English and the second is French. See sabot and clog. --Shantavira 11:06, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

• I think you'll find that in Lancashire( My home) clogs were made with a thick wooden sole,often studded for longer wear in the wet conditions(see "Matchstick men",the song contains lines about the sparking the brads in the sole caused when used on cobbles) with a leather top,either buttoned or laced. They are still made today and very confortable and hard wearing they are too.I think the Dutch also have the leather topped clogs as well.There are sites on the web where people sell traditional clogs which have lots more info on this but I can't track down one just now....hotclaws(81.136.157.206 06:34, 18 June 2006 (UTC))
• I was once told the difference between a sabot and a clog, but I don't remember it. Is there anyone on Wikipedia who knows what it is? Wiwaxia 05:34, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I suspect many use the words interchangably, but arguably, a sabot should have a strap across the instep, while a clog is characterized by its thick soles and probably lacks such a strap. - Nunh-huh 05:51, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Toccata

Listening to Sky (band)'s Toccata I was ceratin it was used as a soundtrack in a film or TV programme. Anyone know which one? -- SGBailey 14:03, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Body odor

Maybe an indelicate question, but I've wondered for a long time: Did almost everybody in history, up until the early 20th century, have terrible B.O.? Probably the working people did, but then, if they all did, maybe they didn't notice it. After all, fish don't know they're wet. But what about wealthy people? Did they just dab on some perfume before putting on their heavy wool clothes? Did men do this? Did wealthy people bathe several times a day? 66.213.33.2 15:12, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Read the article on Body odor, especially the part about social history. Furthermore, the growth of the bacteria producing the smell requires a certain permanency of a humid environment. When clothes (if any) are timely changed, aired and allowed to dry, and excess perspiration is regularly removed (not using the same stinking rag all the time!), there isn't that much of a problem. Then there's also the issue of what you're used to. Forget about the working people; wealthy people from Western "civilization" were most likely the worst big-time stinkers in history, because they wore the most clothes and were, if possible, more adverse to bathing. I'm not even touching on the itchy and yucky issue of wigs, under which they might hide something oozing perfume. In some religions (Islam) one is supposed to be clean when praying, something that definitely helps the olfactorily more sensitive people in one's environment to remain focussed on the prayers. --Lambiam^Talk 15:51, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Further, the sense of smell is the most easily fatigued (why you can't smell your own breath, unless it changes suddenly after eating something). That's why people who live in the shadow of a paper mill, for example, won't smell the sulfurous smell unless they go away and come back. Therefore, yes, people in, for example, 1710 London stank like crazy, and their city stank worse than they did, what with human waste flowing down the gutters to Fleet Ditch and then going out to the Thames, the people there probably couldn't smell it. According to quite a few sources, the practice of armpit and genital shaving was to reduce the surfaces of odiferous bacterial growth. (I'm skeptical about that, myself, as it can't explain leg shaving, for example, and probably has roots in a more psychological than sensory impulse.) Geogre 15:59, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Cool question, I always wondered this too... cause we now have a bunch of deodorants and perfumes which didn't exist then, and if they did, they where quite expensive... and also they wore all those heavy clothes of which they didn't have more than maybe 4 or 5 dresses cause they too where expensive...and they didn't have washing machines nor detergents nor perfumed soap...or anything... wow... I'm glad to have been born in the 80's! . --Cosmic girl 19:30, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Se also : Business Objects. --DLL 20:16, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

To augment what Lambiam was saying, clothing, prior to the 1830's or thereabouts, was most often worsted (wool), and it was not treated for washing. Therefore, one couldn't wash clothes very conveniently and have them fit again. After the advent of King Cotton, that changed, albeit slowly. For one thing, linen and hemp had been used before for clothes that were meant to be washed frequently, but these were "peasant" clothes as outer wear, and so cotton clothing was first associated with being like shifts and other underwear. Getting people to accept cotton as formal outer wear or as fancy dress wear has been a project going on up to the present day. (Think about formal clothing -- suits and dresses -- and how cotton is a "lesser" cloth compared to wool or linen.) Prior to widespread wool clothing, people wore leather, and that wasn't washable, either. Therefore, a fine dress or suit of clothes would be worn only until it was foul, and then it wouldn't be worn again. One historian estimated that nobles in England were spending 30% of their total income on clothes in the 1640's. Some of this was fashion, and nearly as much was utility. Geogre 21:13, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Indian Parliament seating plan?

Please explain the seating plan diagram of the Indian Parliament.--— Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.226.70.73 (talk)

We had a similar question a few days ago on June 6. You can find the answer to that question in our archives here. Road Wizard 23:30, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Looking for name or any info about a short story

I read a short story a couple years ago, and can't recall its name, the name of the book it was in, or the author's name. Any would be nice. All I remember about it (not much, but distinctive) is that it was a very, very strange story, probably best described as absurdist, that the Virgin Mary was a character in it, and that a few points in it where the word "bumped" was used, the letters were misaligned up and down to look as if the word itself was bumped. Strange, I know. Thanks for any help. -Goldom (t) (Review) 18:02, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Postmodernism

What is postmodernism's conception of a succesful person (or of succes in general)? Since modernism's idea of success is quite clear I think.( and I don't want to be answered that it is a hippieish,democrat,university philosophy prophesor..please... lol).--Cosmic girl 19:25, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

I think it is hard to get an unambiguous answer to this question; the postmodernist take would be that the notion of success is a social construct that is relative to one's (equally ambiguous) embedding in and relation to one's social context (like someone can be a successful science fiction author but a failure as a mainstream author). --Lambiam^Talk 01:12, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Lambian, but I would go a little further and say that postmodernism, in my experience, places far more importance on passive, subjective perception than on active, quantifiable achievement. To a hardcore postmodernist, "success" is associated with one's perspective and means of expression. However, postmodernism is more of a tendency within critical theory than a coherent ideology in its own right. Indeed, one noted characteristic of postmodernism is its incoherence and inconsistence.

Personally, I consider postmodernism irrational, duplicitous sophistry, vainly and cynically concerned with erudite obfuscation. It is (for its very survival) chronically disconnected from reality, as evinced by its disdain for anything clear and grounded, above all science and falsifiability. One might say the ultimate goal of postmodernism is to gain respect and disciples by affecting a comprehension of reality superior to that of the reader. In both its methods and applications, postmodernism is similar to theology. Indeed, I would say they are one and the same. Only their building materials differ. On a personal note, Cosmic Girl, if you have issues with religion, you ought to have issues with postmodernism as well. Postmodernism is religion and religion is postmodernism. Bhumiya (said/done) 04:24, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

"Postmodernism is religion and religion is postmodernism." I think there are some pretty substantial differences between the lump of academic philosophical positions which are usually called "postmodernism" and anything which resembles a coherent much less organized religion. Unless you consider all philosophy to be essentially "religion" (and therefore render the term "religion" empty), I don't see how you can claim that postmodernism "is religion" and that religion "is postmodernism". With your comments on clarity and obfuscation I think you're confusing Derrida with all of postmodernist thought (it is questionable whether Derrida was even "postmodern" at all). Personally I think it is telling that postmodern is so ill-defined that almost all people who use the term use it to attack views that almost nobody holds. --Fastfission 05:09, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

u know what Bhumiya... I really don't think what u say is right...since, postmodernism = death of truth and religion = impossing of a truth. --Cosmic girl 15:00, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

I wouldn't say that their concepts or specific techniques are the same, and of course postmodernism is far "richer" and more varied than any theological tradition. But both use obfuscation, hyperabstraction, and sophistry to intellectually overwhelm the reader. Both resort to irrationality to avoid being tested and found out. It is true that postmodernists detest religion, much as a hipster detests last year's fad. Religion and postmodernism are the same in their treatment of the truth: both elevate it beyond the audience, either by claiming it doesn't exist (postmodernism) or claiming it is "ineffable" (theology). Postmodernism is the same old hoary sophism, adapted and refined to survive alongside science. It coopts the language of science, much as theologians coopted the language of law and natural philosophy.

Caveat: I realize, of course, that no one agrees on exactly what postmodernism is. That's the point. It's a vaguely-defined miasma of irrationalism that pervades academia. Many legitimate Continental philosophers have been lumped into it, most notably Derrida and Foucault (both of whom explicitly denied being a part of it). By now, postmodernism has become somewhat cliché in its own right and has begun to function as an epithet. Few people "proclaim" it these days, but it still exists. For more on the struggle between science and postmodernism, look at our articles on the Sokal affair and Intellectual Impostures and take a moment to read Postmodernism Disrobed, an excellent review by Richard Dawkins. Bhumiya (said/done) 01:47, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

June 18

Which Film has been in production for over 20 years (and still filming)?

A few years ago I saw a BBC documentary about an ongoing British movie project where new scenes have been filmed every year for many years. There was also an interview with the lead (only?) actor, he was a famous British classical actor (in the style of Ben Kingsley, Anthony Hopkins, etc - but I can't remember who it was). The project appeared to be an independent/art type movie.

Psychonaut3000 01:34, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Flippant answer: The Anglo Saxon Chronicles: The movie! Geogre 03:33, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy took about twenty years to make, and killed Douglas Adams in the process, but for most of that time it was just a script, not actually being filmed. Tyrhinis 17:04, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

The film Seven Up! is a British movie project that's been in production since 1964, but it's a documentary about 14 British children, first filmed at seven years of age and then revisited every seven years thereafter. --ByeByeBaby 05:39, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

This was asked about a month ago. Noone knew then either. AllanHainey 09:29, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Publishing a book

Hello, I wrote a book and I am wandering how to do so. Can someone tell me the steps? And also can you answer the following questions?

1. In my book I have some pictures that are from other places and have copyrights on them, what is the exact precedure I have to take to be able to use that? Who do I have to ask for permission?
2. My book is non-fiction based on history and for some of the information with is very detailed I don't have an exact source because I read it a long time ago and can't find the book. Is that ok?
3. Does anyone know any good publishing companies and/or agents in Toronto?
4. What is the copyright office in Canada called?
5. Who would be intrested in reading a book about the complete history of Iran, from 3000 years ago until now?

Thanks a lot --(Aytakin) | Talk 01:52, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

1. Yes you need premission to use copyrighted images, and you probably have to pay a fee for their use. If you're able to find an agent and/or publishing house to take you on, they should be able to track down the copyright owners.

2. No, in a non-fiction book you need to state your sources, otherwise it won't be taken seriously.

3. Many American publishing houses have offices in Toronto, but send your manuscript to every publishing house and agent you can find. Make a list and start at the top, send it one publishing house at the time, if you get rejected, cross it off your list and send the manuscript to the next on the list. If you run out of names on your list, just start at the top again. Many successful authors have been rejected 30+ times before they where accepted, so don't give up.

5. Since Iran is in the news alot lately, the interest for the country is at an all time high, and I think many would want to read about its history. But not knowing your focus in the book, it's dificult to answer your question. Is it written more for historians or the general population?

Good luck -- Eivind^t@c 04:06, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Do not send your complete manuscript to any publisher. Unless your name is well known, they will dump it. What publishers want is a contents list, a chapter by chapter synopsis, and a sample chapter. Only if they like that will they ask for a complete manuscript. Also note that many publishers these days will only accept submissions on disk, rather than hard copy, so it's worth phoning to check first. Also do some homework first and find out which publishers produce that sort of book. Some publish only fiction, for example. Also note that many publishers these days receive hundreds of submissions every month and will not return manuscripts except by special arrangement.--Shantavira 07:29, 18 June 2006 (UTC) (a publisher)

• In answer to your fourth question, the copyright office in Canada is literally called the Copyright Office. [7] --Metropolitan90 08:30, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
• It would be a good idea to peruse some blogs and otherwise writer related websites before you send off a manuscript. Try following the blogs of Miss Snark, Writer Beware (useful to avoid scams) and try reading articles about the publishing process from Writing World.com and AbsoluteWrite.com. Only if you get a feel of how the publishing industry works, you can send stuff without making newbie mistakes. - Mgm|^(talk) 09:21, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

First woman on a coin

Excluding symbolic figures like Marianne and Britannia, who was the first woman to be featured on a coin? If she was a queen, then who was the first non-queen to appear in this capacity? Bhumiya (said/done) 02:14, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

I can't identify an individual woman, but this source says some Roman coins featured an empress. However, the source does not claim the coins were the first depictions of females on the currency, so other ancient civilizations may have done so first. In terms of non-rulers, the first US coin in general circulation to feature a woman was in 1979. [8] I suspect though that some other country would have produced an earlier coin that depicted a woman who was not a ruler. Road Wizard 02:34, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm flipping through "Greek Coins" by Ian Carradice, and the first obvious example of a coin with a portrait of a historical woman included there is Cleopatra of Antony-and-Cleopatra fame (it seems that Greeks didn't commonly include personal portraits of their rulers on coins before the time of Alexander the Great). But many of the feminine depictions on earlier coins look like perfectly ordinary heads of women wearing earrings, and you wouldn't be able to tell that a symbolic/divine portrayal was intended without additional knowledge. AnonMoos 06:26, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Musa of Parthia appears on some Parthian coins c. AD 1. The wives, mothers and daughters of Roman emperors often appeared on coins; see for example [9], [10]. Gdr 18:37, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

I think rulers and their wives are disallowed by the question. Otherwise, I'd go with Arsinoe (or "Arisnoe Philadelphos"). She's about...200 BC? Geogre 21:22, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Carradice actually included that same coin Image:PtolemyII.jpg in his book, but it's only labelled "Ptolemaic dynasty" in the book, and they both look like men to me... I think the original questioner was asking about both the first queen and the first non-queen. AnonMoos 02:16, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Arsinoe II of Egypt (316–270 BC) appears on many coins in her own right as well as with her brother and husband Ptolemy II of Egypt (see [11]). Gdr 12:35, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I had intended Arsinoe Philadelphos (Arsinoe II, "Arsinoe the brother lover"), as her power was incredible. She was the Ptolemy in all but name, ruling with her husband and, more or less, instead of her son (whom she also married). Geogre 16:08, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

As for women who were not queens (regnant or consort), how about the Roman Republican political fixer Fulvia (died 40 BC) [12]? Gdr 12:48, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for all the responses! Bhumiya (said/done) 02:19, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

how came christans eat pork?

Hello every1,

I am looking over the differences between old Jewish customs and the changes in Christianity

e.g Circumcision, Sabbath, "correct slaughter of animals", eating pork.

I have found circumcision - St. Paul writing and the Council in Jerusalem decison.

Sabbath, I understand is disputed by different sect in Christianity.

How about slaughter and appropriate meat?

The council of Jerusalem strengths the issue about slaughter and meat, as I understand.

So my question is: how came (when, why, etc..) Christans eat pork and sluaghter (eat) with blood?

Thanks, so much

Because it's delicious. - Nunh-huh 12:19, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

It is possibly one of the examples of where the early Christian churches had to sacrifice some of their less important beliefs for reasons of practicality. The church began in an extremely hostile environment with the Roman Empire seeing them as a potential threat due to the "king" they kept proclaiming as the ruler of the world, and the vast majority of Jews who did not convert seeing them as an abomination. In that sort of situation, they had to make some tough decisions in order to appeal to a greater number of people (trying to convert someone by saying you have to give up all of your favourite foods or kill off your livestock would have been a little difficult). Another example of where this type of decision occurred was with a certain pagan spirit festival, which became incorporated into Christianity as All Hallows Eve (Halloween). Road Wizard 12:35, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

...and with a certain pagan Winter solstice festival, which became incorporated into Christianity as Christmas. -- Christianity is a mix of Jewish and non-Jewish (Greek, Roman, and others) traditions. Chl 13:44, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

  Thanks for the answer, but,

I am less interested in practical consideration. my question is in what way, did they justify the theological change from Judaism. e.g actual circumcision is changed to spiritual one (of the heart) and instead of circumcision, you get baptism to symbolize the connection to god (if I understand correctly). Then the Council of Jerusalem acknowledged Paul's view (which was different from other apostles). But the same council said don't eat meat with it's blood! (which symbolize the correct way to slaughter an animal)

So, was there a similar process regarding slaughtering, pork and all the rest of the forbidden animals (there are quite a lot of them)?

Thanks again.

The main issue had been settled—Gentiles would not have to be circumcised in order to become Christians. While Paul (and Peter, Act 11:5–10) believed there was nothing "unclean," it was wise to avoid those relatively minor practices that would likely offend Jewish Christians. As time passed and the church spread into predominately Gentile areas, there was no longer any reason to follow the Jewish dietary laws. —Wayward ^Talk 14:07, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

There is Peter's vision in Acts 10: He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air. Then a voice told him, "Get up, Peter. Kill and eat." "Surely not, Lord!" Peter replied. "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean." The voice spoke to him a second time, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean." Acts 11 describes how Peter is questioned about consorting and eating with gentiles, whereupon he recounts this to the other apostles, with good effect: When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, "So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life." So the eating of pork is justified by direct command from God not to call it impure. In the narrative of Acts this precedes the Council of Jerusalem, Acts 15. --Lambiam^Talk 14:18, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Darn, Lambian gave the right answer before I could, again. Could those of us interested in belittling religion please refrain from answering questions? At this point, I think we get it: you're upset. I don't see how you profit yourselves or the questioners, though, by this constant reiteration. Geogre 14:24, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

That particular interpretation of the vision is not universally supported. This source says the vision was not about whether the food was unclean, but rather was associating with gentiles unclean. However, I am not sure if the views expressed by the source I quoted are widely held, or just a personal opinion. Road Wizard 14:26, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Lambian. It's a very good answer for the Pork issue. In http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unclean_animals#Judaism, lays more quotes the help to clarify the issue. However, something still remains for me to be happy.

The same Council in Jerusalem, restated the Noahide laws (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noahide_Laws), which states: "For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; that ye abstain from meats[18] offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled ..." – Acts 15:28-29

So, Pork is o.k, but how about blood, strangled animals ?

Well in the verse quoted above (Acts 15:28-29) it says to abstain "...from blood, from the meat of strangled animals..." schyler 18:08, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

• Also practicality,I guess. In the East where Judaism started ,eating pork was way risky and to forbid the eating of it was very sensible as were many of the other early Jewish laws. However when the faith spread out to Europe,not eating pork didn't make much sense,it was a valuable and cheap sourse of protein and safer in colder climates..Paul particularly appeared to clear the use of pork so voila! I find it interesting how various Christian "sub-groups" will harp on endlessly about some trivial law and ignore the pork one so again I say expediency comes into it.Please don't see this as criticism , I admire religious pragmatism.

hotclaws**==(81.136.157.206 07:17, 19 June 2006 (UTC))

Just curious, why would pork in particular be "riskier" to eat in warm climates than other meats? Not that I don't, as you do, admire religious pragmatism, I'm just afraid you may be missing an essential element in Jewish dietary laws by simplifying it in the way you seem to have. Loomis 00:50, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Powers (civics question)

Can you please help me with powers of the president and the prime minister of India?--Saksham Sharma 12:41, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

We have articles on both the President and Prime Minister of India. If they do not hold the answer to your question, please let us know. Road Wizard 14:35, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

health

I am a 19 year old boy. I am growing fatter each day. Can you help me out with this. a diet chart or someting.

The thing about diets is, you have to find one you can stick with. Every day. For the rest of your life. If you have to use a chart or count calories, you probably won't stick with it. Two simple tips:

• Drink water instead of soda, juice, or beer. Water has zero calories, and -- unlike what the ads tell you -- it quenches thirst as well as any other drink.
• Cut down on fast food (burger restaurants, take-out pizza, cafeteria food, and so on). Its full of calories and full of disgusting stuff no one in their right mind would want to eat (see Super Size Me). Try making your own sandwiches instead.

--Chl 13:59, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Our article on dieting has lots of useful information, as well as links to relevant websites. Physical exercise is also very important.--Shantavira 14:14, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

However, please don't use Wikipedia as a substitue doctor. Make sure that any exceptionally radical diet (i.e. Atkins, South Beach) that you enter has his (or her) approval. Emmett5 16:23, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

IMO, apart from what diet you are trying to do, the hardest part is sticking to it. I think the best way to achieve this is (a) to find a friend who is in the same position and diet together and talk to each other regularly to see if you are backsliding and (b) to get a small notebook and write down everything you eat. You'll frighten yourself with the number of "insignificant" biscuits that creep in with cups of coffee between your "oh so sensible" meals. (To do this you have to take book and pen with you everywhere - you'll fail if you "remember it and write it sdown when you get home". -- SGBailey 22:06, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Exercise.  SLUMGUM  yap  stalk  02:21, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

• Find a way to walk,cycle instead of using a car.Diet is okay,but exercise is even better.And if you could find a sport you like take it up.

hotclaws**==(81.136.157.206 07:20, 19 June 2006 (UTC))

Join the Marines. There's no such thing as a fat Marine. --Serie 18:57, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Simpsons episode featuring a "Portugal vs Mexico" soccer match

Can anyone tell in which episode of The Simpsons a soccer match between Portugal and Mexico takes part? An excerpt from the episode can be found here. Thanks!

The Cartridge Family --  SLUMGUM  yap  stalk  16:50, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! I had discovered it after searching for the episodes written by John Swartzwelder. Afonso Silva 15:58, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Characters in 19th century opera.

I am trying to find a list/source of 19th century operas by title which also contains the characters in each opera. From: Nairbeldraw

Our page List of operas contains a list of opera with their year of debut (the name of the page should be list of opera since opera is the plural of opus). I don't know if there is a page with exclusively 19th century opera though. schyler 18:14, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Not quite, schyler. As discussed on these pages recently, "opera" started out as a Latin word, the plural of "opus". It has evolved into a singular English word in its own right. Beethoven wrote one opera, Verdi wrote many operas. Cheers JackofOz 20:44, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

I do now remember that discussion. At the time, I just remembered playing Opus 99 by Sergei Prokofiev and that that was when I had first learned that opus was (originally) the singular of Opera. Sorry. schyler 03:26, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Not at all. Noblesse oblige. Lol. JackofOz 04:55, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Che Guvera

Che wanted to end the US with a unilaterial nuculear strike, as such he seems like a terrorist. Why is he now so honored? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.12.116.72 (talk)

Present your references to such claim, please. Afonso Silva 19:05, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

First of all, the name is "Che Guevara", not "Che Guvera". As far as I know he didn't want to attack the US, he only wanted a Cuban workers' state free from any American intervention, see history of Cuba. Given that similar Communist leaders were far more radical and extremists, I would say that it's not strange to see him honored, but nevertheless El Che isn't liked by all Latin Americans nor all Socialists. I'm Argentine, and if you want to know my opinion he was more like a disgrace for our country than a pride; many people here see him as a "national traitor" who served other country than his own. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.232.152.3 (talk)

The irony of it all was the Che was a very hard-line "true" communist - didn't hold with hero-worship or the principle that any person was more important than any other. He would have been simply appalled to find that since his death he had become an iconic figure. As to being a national traitor to Argentina, as I understand it the situations in Argentina and Cuba were very different in Guevara's time and revolution would certainly have been quickly subdued in any mainland nation (in fact, he met his death trying to foment revolution in a mainland country). Also, he was always more of a behind-the-scenes worker than a true leadership figure - there was no-one of Castro's leadership skills or charisma working to overthrow the Argentinian government. it was the combination of their two abilities and styles that allowed for their success in Cuba. Without a comparable combination there wouldn't have been much likelihood of even creating a strong attempt at rebellion in Argentina. Grutness...wha? 07:00, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

So writing "Guvera" is terrible, but "nuculear" is OK? VdSV9•♫ 12:18, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Atom bombs don't roll over in their graves. --Serie 18:58, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

info on a painting

I have a very old painting.There is no artist signiture that i can see. The title of the painting is "Sunny Skies and Freindly Hearts".It is at least50 years old i know.Could somebody possibly find me some info on it.

                                                                  Thank You
                                                                  Jenny silvers

Google doesn't know the phrase "Sunny Skies and Friendly Hearts" on websearch or images. I couldn't bring myself to search for "Sunny Skies and Freindly Hearts". If you really want to know, help us help you and post a photo of the picture. Do you assume it is a famous artist for some reason, or might it turn out to be "Mr Joe 17" who worked in the hardware store at the other end of town and went to painting classes in the evenings? I believe Mr 17 has a daughter, June. -- SGBailey 21:59, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

How do you know it is "very old" if all you know is that it is "at least 50 years old"? If you posted a picture of it it might aid people in identifying the artist. AllanHainey 09:40, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Do you have the original painting or a reproduction? If it is the original painting, there is no way someone could identify it from just the title. The lack of a signature strongly suggests it is not by a well-known artist. How do you know the title is "Sunny Skies and Friendly Hearts"? Is that engraved on a tag on the frame? Even if the painting itself has no signature, if the artist was known to the framer, they would normally have added the artist's name to the tag. --Lambiam^Talk 00:18, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

meissonier 1876

I have a picture with the signiture of messonier 1876 in the left hand corner. It is of two men on horseback drinking from goblets. There are two women petting the horses. One horse is white the other is black. there is a man sitting on a bench. They are in front of what looks to be a tavern.The men have feathers in there hats. Below this print is what appears to be a Russian man and the name looks like H or A Franna. Can you tell me what this is. It was found in a very old house. Thanks--Velvet53 22:49, 18 June 2006 (UTC)Judy

There has actually been a question about this very same picture on the Reference Desk before, and the picture appears to be "Halt at an Inn" by Jean-Louis-Ernest Meissonier. --Cadaeib (talk) 01:49, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

June 19

Gas leases in Southern Missippi

How can I find out about what company is doing natural gas drilling in the Wayn Co. Ms. or city of Waynsboro or the city of Buckaturny. My family has land in the area so we are all more that a little courious as to how to go about profiting from this turn of events. Thanks a bunch 00:23, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I would either ask some of the men doing the drilling or if that isn't convenient ask the local authority/city council who I suspect would have to had given permission for exploratory drilling. On the matter of profit you probably won't be able to make any unless the drillers actually find anything. In that case I would expect them to approach you about buying or licencing drilling on your land. AllanHainey 09:43, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

You also might check your local library. Whenever companies have to do environmental impact studies before commencing work, they usually have to post the results in a public place, sometimes the library. Nowimnthing 13:53, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Student Loan Interest In England

My English student loans are supposed to only have enough interest to cover inflation but it seems when my statements come through that they're adding much more than enough to cover inflation. My guide to student loans say's it should only cover inflation. Why am I being overcharged? --Username132 (talk) 01:40, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Have you asked the financial institution through which you acquired your loans? It would seem to me that they would have infinitely more knowledge about their rates and policies than we would. Dismas|^(talk) 06:32, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

For a Student Loans Company loan (which is almost certainly what you're refering to) the interest rate is set at the retail price index (which is a measure of inflation.) For 2004-5 you should be being charged 2.6% APR and for 2005-6 the rate is 3.2%.[13] Your best bet if you think you're being overcharged is to call the Student Loans Company and ask them, their website gives their number as 0800 40 50 10. -- AJR | Talk 23:56, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

email me back please

Hello,

My names Laura and I was wondering if I am able to get your help on any information on artworks depicting daily life in france in the 19th century. i am doing this for school assessment and have been told to contact as many possible places as possible so anything would be a great help! I have to do two paintings by three artists showing of depiction of daily life in france and i have choosen courbet's a burial at ornans and the stone breakers, daumier's rue transnonain and third class carriage and millet's the gleaners and the angelus.

Please email me back when you can,

Many thanks,

Laura Palmer

Did you try our articles on Gustave Courbet, Honoré Daumier, and Jean-François Millet? You can find these articles quicker if you use the search box on the left of your browser window. --Robert Merkel 05:34, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

wikipedia's future

What will wikipedia be like 30 or 40 years in the future?

I expect Jimbo Wales will start acting like Caligula.

Seriously, who knows? here are some of Jimbo's longer-term thoughts, though they don't seem like they'll take longer than a decade or two. --Robert Merkel 05:40, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

And what will Wikipedia be 300 or 4000 years in the future? --Lambiam^Talk 00:21, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

In the Year 2525. I think in 30 or 40 years, Wikipedia will be 35 or 45 years old...or a question in Trivial Pursuit Noughties Edition. Geogre 02:52, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Jo Swingson

How I get british MP Jo Swingson to have sex with me?

Perhaps if you spent less time repeatedly asking us this question, and more time asking The Hon. Ms Swinson, you'd have better luck. I'd also recommend getting her name correct, that always seems to turn the ladies on. --ByeByeBaby 05:31, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Ph.D in Military management

I want to make my further education of PH.D level in the USA in the feild of Military Management. What web sites can I gain the concise information covering all aspects of the mentioned subject

It's not clear what you're asking. Are you searching for information about universities that offer PhD programs on this topic, so as you can decide where to apply? Or are you looking for reference information about military management to assist you in your PhD research? --Robert Merkel 12:50, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you Robert. Yub, I wnat to search for information about universities that offer PhD programs on the topic and then make my decision where I should apply. Please tell me more

Thanks

First sovereign country in the Americas

While speaking to my father yesterday morning for Father's Day we got on the subject of why citizens of the U.S. call themselves Americans and how it comes off as arrogant to the rest of the countries of N & S America since they are "Americans" as well. He seems to recall reading something somewhere that said that not only was the U.S. the first modern (not including nations/empires like the Aztecs and such) sovereign nation in the Americas, all the rest being colonies of some other (probably European) country, but also that there was some document written in the early days of the American revolution that stated something like "We will be called the United States of America and our citizens will thus be called Americans". So since we were the first sovereign nation here, we got the name since we "called dibs" (my way of looking at it, not his words since he's more eloquent than I) or some such thing. So does anyone have any idea what document he was thinking of and if the U.S. actually was the first sovereign nation? Thanks, Dismas|^(talk) 06:44, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Actually I think the Native American nations (such as the Iroquois Confederacy) were the first but they had dark skin & didn't use money so the proto-Americans didn't recognise them as soverign nations (though the British did). AllanHainey 09:51, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

The US was the first nation recognized as such by European nations on the American continents. As for "we shall be called 'Americans'" being formally laid out in a document, no. It's not in the US Declaration of Independence, US Constitution, or any other major US document -- at least not as such. However, they may refer to US citizens as "Americans" reflecting an existing popular usage -- certainly "United Statesians" wouldn't have existed prior to the US Revolutionary War, so "Americans" (to reflect inhabitants of Britain's American colonies) seems fairly appropriate. However, particularly at the time, it was also (if not more) common to refer to Virginians, New Yorkers, and other state-by-state identities (recall that the US was originally a commonwealth of generally-sovereign states, not a federal entity). — Lomn | Talk 16:19, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Chinese Provincial Symbols

If anyone could provide images or descriptions of any visual symbols for Chinese provinces or municipalities, like flags or heraldry, I'd appreciate it. I'm especially interested in traditional or at least pre-PRC things. --207.255.69.226 07:06, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

The Flags of the World website probably has quite a few items of interest - start on their China index page and follow some of the links (especially those under "Historical flags"). You may turn up some interesting flags, at least. Grutness...wha? 11:05, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

indo bangladesh war

can i have the details of the indo bangladesh war..??

Do you mean the Indo-Pakistani War of 1971? Notinasnaid 08:11, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

A note of explanation is needed here. Prior to 1971, Bangladesh was not yet an independent country, but was called East Pakistan and was controlled by Pakistan. As a result of the war between Pakistan and India and the related Bangladesh Liberation War, East Pakistan gained independence from Pakistan and became Bangladesh. StuRat 16:34, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

australian female recording artists

hello i would like to find a list of australian female recording artists from 1974 to 1986 with self titled albums, that is a song that is the same name as the album i would really appreciate any help you can offer me this is my first time on this site thankyou very much i look forward to your reply. 210.8.240.122 10:27, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately I think you will have to try and find this information yourself. Australian female singers is a good starting point, but from that list you would have to go through each artist and find her discography on her individual page (if it has one). Good luck. --Richardrj 11:45, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Largest number of pubs per capita ??

Everywhere I go around the world - Europe, Australia, USA - it doesn't take long before some wise-acre local sits me down and proudly explains the fact that "did I know that such-and-such a nearby city/town/village/street has the largest number of pubs (or sometimes restaurants) per square mile, or per capita, in the world." With the rate that establishments open and close and populations change I can't believe this would be a viable statistic anywhere, and I am sick to death of being told this as ABSOLUTE GOSPEL TRUTH by idiots (and tourist boards) everywhere! So... does anybody know if a survey has ever been done on this kind of thing, and if so, what the results might have been ? I'm pretty sure Guinness Book of Records don't have a category for this. Thanks everyone!

I would have expected London to rank quite highly here, but, as you said, I can't find anything too specific. I was quite tempted to say Paris- when I was there recently, I saw a large number of pubs claiming to be be "English" around the Champs-Elysées and the Arc de Triomphe backstreets!

On the other hand, it could be a small village somewhere in England- quite a few hamlets (villages with less than 100 residents) often have 2 (or more) pubs, so that would make 1 pub per 100 people or so. Of course, you could then argue that in the Australian outback, the ratio may be very close to 1:1!

Theoretically, Heaven would seem to be a good answer!

EvocativeIntrigue _{TALK | EMAIL} 13:46, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

According to the 2001 Illustrated book of World Rankings, France has the highest alcohol consumption per capita at 11.9 liters per capita. Australia ranks 16th with 7.7 liters ; UK ranks 21 and the USA at 23 with 7.2 and 6.6 liters respectively. A lot of Eastern European and EU countries round out the top slots. Like you said, pubs would be a lot harder to count. Guinness doesn't list it, or # of restaurants, which is another claim I see a lot. Nowimnthing 14:38, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

In Britain though you cant just open up a pub as you can a shop ctr in my continental countries where its very easy to open a new bar. Jameswilson 23:26, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I've aways been told that St Albans is supposed to have the largest number of pubs in Britain, and our article says it is a claimant along with Edinburgh, Norwich, Nottingham, Otley and Rochdale. From my experience I'm suprise Brighton is in the list. Jooler 21:41, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I've read that Žižkov in Prague has more pubs per square mile than anywhere else on Earth, and that Milwaukee is the bar capital of the U.S. But these tend to be the things of urban legends. -- Mwalcoff 02:18, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I just looked it up -- Montana has the lowest person-per-"drinking place" ratio among US states of one bar for every 1,439 people according to the 2002 economic census. Virginia was highest with a ration of 38,795 to 1. Montana also has the lowest ratio for food-service places in general (279:1), with Mississippi at the other end (663:1). -- Mwalcoff 02:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

The Republic of Rose Island had a pub, without apparently having any population. That's infinite per-capita pubdom!--Pharos 02:36, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Six main manufacturing sectors

Hello there,

Ive been earching the site but getting more confused with things,

Sorry to be such a pain but could you by any chance list the 6 main sectors in manufacturing, I think its something like atoumotive, chemicals, food ect but not at all sure!

If you could help, it'd be great. I need this to make a start on my essay. Im really stuck!

Thank you very much,

Ben Moore

I can't seem to find anything related to manufacturing which lists "6 sections" in manufacturing, but I'll keep trying.

I tried manufacturing, but this article is a little on the thin side.

EvocativeIntrigue _{TALK | EMAIL} 13:51, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Sounds like the answer should be in a textbook you probably should have read. Nowimnthing 14:01, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

This is no more so sure, as teachers do give homework implying personally researching the Internet. And here we happen to be part of it. Is there some Natl Bureau of Statistics giving economics hints for that question ? (In France : INSEE) --DLL 20:01, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

nigerian law

please where can i get articles and excerpts online on nigerian law like stuff on nigerian conflict of laws and law of trusts?thank you!

mossey

try [14] and don't keep asking the same question, we heard you the first time. :^) Nowimnthing 14:40, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

burj dubai

does anyone know which main company will be head of the new tallest building in the world under construction in Dubai, United Arab Emirates? i once, for some reason, heard it was going to be samsung but now wikipedia says its just another city. and plus, the dubai mall will be 12 million square feet right? well, somehow someone should tell those engineers that's twice as big as the pentagon!!!

Yes, I will tell the engineers...if I can find their phone number. I know I have it here somewhere. - Zepheus 19:32, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Red Line

Would someone be as kind as to tell me what that red line indicates...

http://img106.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11fi1.png

I have a hunch it`s a river but would like reassurance.

Given that your image has rivers on it flowing north-south, I'd say it's pretty unlikely that there also exists a river flowing east-west, crossing them. Perhaps our article on the Trans-Siberian Railway might be of interest. Particularly since it has the exact same map, down to the green line representing the Baikal-Amur mainline. --ByeByeBaby 15:19, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

thanks a lot

YouTube's Brookers: I don't get it!

Can anyone explain what is interesting about the videos of YouTube celebrity and recent Carson Daly signee Brookers? I don't get it! (I'm not trying to be snarky, by the way. I sincerely don't understand what is interesting about her videos. Someone who "gets it" please explain.) --I Don't Get It 15:15, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

library

ive heard that the library of congress, washington d.c., is the largest library in the world. however its all about politics and stuff like that and its really not a normal library. that brings the record down to the new york public library. right?

It isn't, and no. The LOC contains a copy of every book published in the USA, including magazines. Geogre 16:01, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

The world extends beyond the U.S.A. There are many libraries, both national deposit libraries (like the Library of Congress) and public lending (or reference) libraries around the world which I suspect are equal or larger than NY public library. Incidentally your claim that the Library of Congress is the largest library in the world isn't actually correct, it has the largest volume of shelf space but the British Library holds the most volumes (around 20,000,000 more than the Library of Congress). AllanHainey 16:04, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, doesn't that mean that either the LOC has lots of empty shelves or the BL has many books sitting on the floor or in boxes ? StuRat 16:28, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, noting that the LOC and the NYPL are different types of libraries is pretty much correct; see national library and public library for details. However, I've found no info in a cursory search regarding the largest public library and, as noted by AllanHainey above, "largest" may be a flexible definition. — Lomn | Talk 16:11, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

StuRat, I took it as meaning that the Library of Congress has thicker books. AllanHainey 10:11, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

So the BL is mostly thin Tinky Winky picture books ? LOL StuRat 04:17, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Or American authors are more long-winded than British ones. AllanHainey 11:38, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

The Chaps

whatever happened to the up and coming UK punk rock band TheChaps? after they toures the US last summer they disappeared. They were my favourite band and i heard grave news about them. i couldnt find anything on wikipedia. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 199.67.138.42 (talk • contribs) .

(Removed possible spam link: although perhaps relevant to the question, it did not add anything. EvocativeIntrigue _{TALK | EMAIL} 17:29, 19 June 2006 (UTC))

Please sign your posts with "~~~~", it helps us to reply to your more quickly!

Since they're probably non-notable, Wikipedia won't know any more than you do. Sorry.

EvocativeIntrigue _{TALK | EMAIL} 17:29, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Was the Holocaust Illegal Under Nazi German Law?

As far as I could find out, there was never any law legalising the Holocaust. Is this true? If so, could the Führer of the country under military command, be prosecuted for authorising the extermination camps? Thank you in advance. - sYndicate ^talk 16:23, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I think there may have been: I'm sure some papers were found authorising it...in fact, have a look here and here. Nothing particularly explicit, though. EvocativeIntrigue _{TALK | EMAIL} 17:24, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

As far as I know, the Holocaust was never explicitly legalized in Nazi Germany. Hitler avoided signing any orders concerning the Holocaust, as far as possible. The majority of these orders were given verbally. Read the article Wannsee Conference. Under a purely technical and naive/hipocritical point of view Hitler could have been prosecuted. But please don't be naive, the guy was the absolute leader of Germany and above the reach of any German law. Almost all the key positions in Germany were occupied by persons who were loyal to Hitler, members of the Nazi party, or at the very least obeyed Hitler's orders. History shows that persons with the power of Hitler (like Stalin, Mao Tse-Tung, etc) are never prosecuted, UNLESS they lose their power somehow (like Pinochet or Saddam Hussein). In truth, the true law in such regimes is: "The wishes of our LEADER is our sole command, and our only law." and the rest (laws which protect our rights, or the rights of other persons) is but useless and neglected papertrash. Flamarande 18:52, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

The book "The Nazis: A Warning from History" by Laurence Rees ISBN 056349333X addresses this question in some detail. ➨ ЯЄDVERS 22:12, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Flamarande is absolutely right. One can only speak of the relevancy of the law in societies where the rule of law is respected. And by "rule of law" I don't just mean the narrow "positivist" definition of law, but rather the broader "natural law" concept of what's right and what's wrong. Another way of explaining it is the oft quoted distinction: "The Rule of Law, NOT of Man." Clearly, neither of these definitions of the rule of law existed in Nazi Germany. The law was morally abhorrent, and further, to whatever extent a law may have stood in Hitler's way, he would have merely repealed it upon command, and therefore exhonerated himself from any possible criminal liability. In other words, in the simplest of terms, the original question is a moot one. Whether the Holocaust was illegal or not under Nazi German Law is irrelevant, for Nazi German Law, by its very nature, does not qualify as law at all. Loomis 21:18, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

What is a loaded question?

The urban dictionary contains three different (although not exclusive) definitions for the term 'loaded question'. I want to know how to interpret the first instance of 'loaded question' as it occurs in The Da Vinci Code. --Username132 (talk) 17:32, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Can you be more specific? I took a look but couldn't understand what you were asking exactly!EvocativeIntrigue _{TALK | EMAIL} 18:11, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

What does the term 'a loaded question' mean? --Username132 (talk) 18:18, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

A loaded question (from the same usage as "loaded", or unfair, dice) is a question constructed such that answers are biased in advance. The classic example is "Have you stopped beating your wife?" -- a "yes" implies that you once beat your wife, a "no" implies that you currently beat your wife, and no clear answer exists for "I have never beaten my wife". — Lomn | Talk 18:21, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Or the old school joke "Does your mom know you're gay?" Yes means you're gay and you mom knows about it, no means you're gay and your mom doesn't know. Wizrdwarts (T|C|E) 18:47, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Respectfully, those are the fallacy of many questions rather than a loaded question. A loaded question is one that is unfair, yes, but it is one that is laden with extra signification. The question is freighted with signification beyond the linguistic. It can carry either an expected answer (although one with a very clearly expected answer is a rhetorical question) or, more commonly, a thick sense of emotional danger. Geogre 19:07, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Did you mean that Ben Laden was freighted with extra signification ? Maybe a thick sense of emotional danger ? --DLL 19:55, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Benjamin Laden was heavy. Geogre 11:45, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Given that, it might be worth making loaded question something other than a redirect to fallacy of many questions, where it's explicitly listed as an AKA. — Lomn | Talk 20:10, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I can see it going either way. On the one hand, "loaded question" is not synonymous with the fallacy of many questions, but, on the other hand, Wikipedia is not concerned with lexical matters. If we were at Wiktionary, the redirect would make no sense. From an encyclopedic point of view, the fallacy of many questions may be the only proper encyclopedic reference for the term. Geogre 11:45, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Sorry I don't understand. Could someone ask me a loaded question so that I can compare it with the one in my book? --Username132 (talk) 21:21, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Btw, what is the "loaded question" in the Da Vinci Code? I have the book, so a page number would be enough. Wizrdwarts (T|C|E) 23:16, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure what page it is, but Langdon and Fache (police cheif guy) are at an art museum in Paris (the Louvre, I think) and Fache asks Langdon his opinion of the glass pyramid entrance that was built. --Username132 (talk) 11:15, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Any question could be a loaded question if it has an excess baggage of significance and expectations. "Why do you like that book?" is not really loaded as it is requesting your opinion, but if from the tone of the voice they imply that they think that the book is rubbish, the question is loaded; requiring you to justify holding a different opinion. A good example of a loaded question could be "have you finnished with that?" which is not usually asked out of general interest but because the questioner wants the item. MeltBanana 00:48, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

A good answer for a loaded question is Wu. СПУТНИК^{CCC P} 01:18, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

the letter j

why is the letter J referred to as a currupt letter?

Removed email address to prevent spam, ham, jam and other foodstuffs being sent to poster. EvocativeIntrigue _{TALK | EMAIL} 18:03, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Try taking at look at J (although I couldn't see why there) or asking this question on the language desk. EvocativeIntrigue _{TALK | EMAIL} 18:05, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Where is it called a currupt letter? What is the context? Do you mean corrupt? Possibly because it was originally a modified letter "I", so I suppose one could think of it as a corrupt I. In (old fashioned) printing, corrupt letters are simply damaged letters.--Shantavira 18:48, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

It is the corrupt letter because a few years ago on Sesame Street it got caught offering bribes to the letters G, P and the number 3. AllanHainey 10:17, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Gavin Bryars (Composer)

Gavin Is a great composer was never called richard

Do you have a question about Gavin Bryars? If you're taking issue with the statement in the article that his first name is actually Richard, the place to raise it is on the article's talk page. --Richardrj 20:45, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Book export licences.

Does anyone know under what legislation (if any)book sellers are required to obtain book export licences when exporting rare and/or valuable books/manuscripts (for sale abroad) from England/France? The text I am interested in is of great historical and cultural significance. I would be extremely grateful for any assistance.

You want to ask the Department of Cultcha in the UK. Shimgray | talk | 21:46, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Many thanks Shimgray - thanks for taking the time to reply.

Does anyone have any idea of an equivalent in France?

Glass House

In England or France, during the nineteenth century there was a glass building built. Does anyone know it's name? The Crystal something perhaps? I don't think it was a greenhouse though. Also, does anyone know the name of the Queen's estate in Scotland? It's slipped my mind.

The Crystal Palace? DJ Clayworth 20:19, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

And Balmoral. --Richardrj 20:38, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

WWI : one of biggest manmade explosions ever

Hi,

I was taught that in World War I, a huge explosion took place in West-Flanders, Belgium. I think but I am not sure that it was done on purpose by allied forces. I checked the Ypresarticle but it doesn't mention it. It is said that the explosion was felt in England.

Can anyone say more about this? When and where did it happen?

Evilbu 21:21, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

600 tons of explosives were detonated in mines under the German trenches as part of the Battle of Messines Ridge in 1917. It was intentional (though slightly earlier than planned). You might also find the list of the largest artificial non-nuclear explosions interesting. Shimgray | talk | 21:40, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

IIRC, this was the biggest deliberate man-made explosion during the war, but the disaster at Halifax, Nova Scotia was actually a bigger blast. Grutness...wha? 03:13, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Actually the largest man-made explosion ever was the halifax explosion

Uh, no it wasn't. Even if you qualify "explosion" with the adjective "conventional" (as in, non-nuclear), it is still not likely to be the largest. The ship which exploded seems to only had about 2,600 tonnes of explosives aboard (compare with the Port Chicago disaster, which had around 4,600 tonnes, or the Texas City Disaster, which had 7,700 tonnes of ammonium nitrate; much less nuclear explosions, which are measured in the kilotons and megatons). --Fastfission 21:52, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Had I had internet back then, I would have checked a lot more my teacher told us. Thanks the Battle of Messines is probably what I was looking for. Evilbu 15:03, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Soviet victory without D-Day

Is it possible that Soviet Union had won WWII without the D-Day? Lots of historians claim that and I believe it would have been possible. What do you say?

It's possible, but also highly variable. The western Allies could have instead assaulted the Balkans (an idea Churchill favored), which circumvents D-Day without lessening the contributions of the western Allies. Backing away further, the Italian front could have been substantially reinforced. On the other hand, without even a threat of western invasion, Germany could have transferred additional troops to the Russian front. However, it seems to be a commonly-accepted consensus that Germany would have prevailed in Russia had the UK sued for peace (and the US then not entered the European war). So, end result, it makes for a great debate and good speculation is highly dependent on your assumptions and constraints. — Lomn | Talk 22:04, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, if you look at the state of things on the Eastern Front at the time of D-Day, it certainly seems likely that the Soviet advance would have continued. (Image:Eastern_Front_1943-08_to_1944-12.png). Once most Soviet territory and population was recovered (and it was at that point), Germany had very little chance of surviving a prolonged war. --Ornil 01:08, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Oldest Structure

Could I please know: What is the oldest man-made structure in the world?

As an actual building, probably the Great Pyramid of Giza? For less complex structures, the Indigenous Australians have been creating piles of shells for between 40,000 and 50,000 years, some of which are still found inland from beaches in Australia. ➨ ЯЄDVERS 22:53, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

There are preserved bark huts of the Maglemosian culture. Some igloos are pretty old too. — Gareth Hughes 23:02, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Çatalhöyük is also an impressive neolithic domestic settlement. However, our article on Natufian culture says It was an Epipalaeolithic culture, but unusual in that it established permanent settlements even before the introduction of agriculture. The Natufians are likely to have been the ancestors of the builders of the first Neolithic settlements of the region, which may have been the earliest in the world. — Gareth Hughes 23:19, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Guinness World Records should tell you.

Laws regarding confiscation by teachers

Are there any laws regarding confication of stuff by teachers? (in the US btw) Like they have to give it back at the end of the school year, and also about dargerous objects? Wizrdwarts (T|C|E) 22:47, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Please specify the state(s). Russian F 23:32, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Uh, California, I guess, since that's where I live. You don't have to go into detail, just a summary would be good. Wizrdwarts (T|C|E) 23:41, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I suppose there probably are laws against taking something from another person without permission from that person, but a teacher can simply send you to detention or pile on the homework, so letting the teacher have the item in mind would probably be a lot easier. Russian F 00:14, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

IANAL, but I would think that the item would technically belong to the parents of said child and therefore they would have final say as to whether they even wanted the kid to get it back. I'm not sure if parents have to sign any forms to the fact or not but I would think that by allowing your child to go to a certain school, public or otherwise, they would be volunteering, if not outright agreeing, to allowing the teachers to enforce the rules of the school and/or their classroom. And if a rule says that items may be taken from the children, then it would be up to the parents and the teacher what was to happen to that item. Dismas|^(talk) 00:22, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I know in Texas that on the first day of school we are given a Student Code of Conduct and to be able to go to school, you must sign a document that you have read it, agree to the rules, and agree to follow them and accept any consequences if you don't. After going over mine real quick, it says that teachers reserve the right to confiscate any item the student possesses if it is making a classroom disturbance and that the school reserves the right to keep it indefinitely. I really don't think that this would happen in most cases but concerning weapons, I betcha they will be kept. A cell phone, toy, etc., however, will probable be given back. In Texas the first offense (phone ringing in class)=warning, 2nd offense=$25 fee to get the object back, 3rd offense=Parent must come in and pay $50 for it. schyler 01:16, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

The entire state of Texas? I think your principal just found a way to supplement his/her tiny salary. I bet the money is being pocketed. --Nelson Ricardo 02:18, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I think we're back to the ever-loved in loco parentis. Yes, the parents can get the stuff, but the school is your parent while you are there. If the parents can take it away, so can the teacher. Cell phones delenda est. Geogre 02:45, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Wouldn't it be "cell phones delendae sunt"? СПУТНИК^{CCC P} 03:13, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I would disagree that the doctrine of in loco parentis means schools have as much power over students as parents have over what goes on in their house. Public schools cannot suspend students without a hearing, for example, and they cannot, say, ban students from donning black armbands to protest a war. Nonetheless, public schools too often attract the kind of people who enjoy micromanaging others with hundreds of ridiculous rules and take pleasure in punishing them for infractions -- people who in third-world countries would join fascist death squads. Schools in the U.S. often remind me of prisons, and if you don't feel like rebelling, there's something wrong with you. -- Mwalcoff 02:16, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Technically it is just my school district, but it sites penal code 1234.4321 or whatnot to support each rule. I can't really see my principal doing that. I mean she looks so innocent. Take a look for yourself (FYI she transferred to that school after this past school year). Of course she could be an evil, maniacal, evil-plot plotter kind of person. And according to the .pdf document on my school district's website, her minimum salary would be $80,000 because she has her doctorate.schyler 03:07, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

• IANAL but I would consider not giving an item back theft (unless it was some sort of weapon or drugs. I haven't heard of confiscated items not being returned in any other cases, but then again, why wouldn't they give them back after the student learned their lesson? - Mgm|^(talk) 08:09, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

• • I had a 5th grade teacher that kept the items in a drawer. The drawer was full of old Rubiks cubes, squirt guns, slinkies, etc. Dismas|^(talk) 08:36, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I was told to confiscate cell phones from students as that was a new polocy in my Texas public school district. As a substitute teacher I was not going to question it. The first time I tried it a high school quarterback stood up and towered over five foot me and gave me a lecture about the cell phone was private property and was not going to given up without a fight unless I had a warrent for it. I kindly allowed him to keep it if he kept it in his pocket dureing my class. I was impressed by the larva state of his legal instencts. I also quite. (Hobgoblin)

I assume you weren't an English teacher. User:Zoe|^(talk) 02:12, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

June 20

PERSONNEL VS HUMAN RESOURCE MANAGEMENT

Hello

I need your help please.

Could please explain what is the difference between personnel and human resource management?

None. They both mean the same thing, but 'human resource management' is the current soft business jargon. By calling themselves human resource managers rather than personnel managers, they're trying to show that they treat people as individuals rather than as resources to be exploited. --Richardrj 05:22, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

And so it says in our article on Human resource management. My take on this is that, in calling this function "human resource" management, they are at least honest by showing explicitly they view humans as a resource. The grouping is as in ((human resource) management), not (human (resource management)). Anyway, part of the theory that goes with it is that this resource has to be tended to, as in care and feeding of, to get the most out of it, and part of the soft sell is that this is supposedly advantageous to both parties (the exploited proletariat masses and the bourgeoisie who buy their labour power). --Lambiam^Talk 10:48, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

HR update: Personnel was a managment term inventied to give the illusion that miners did not need representation by the united mine worker when it was just the first of the fledgling labor movements. The idea is that the workers could take their concerns to personnel who would work as ombudsmen on their behalf in liue of actual U.M.W. shop stewards. In this day HR has replaced personel just as the market pressure of organized labor has been reduced to a shadow of its former past. (Hobgoblin)

Family tree

Can someone find out if Andrew Jackson (the 7th president of the U. S.), and Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson were related?

This suggests they weren't. JackofOz 07:06, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Islamic force invade Europe

I think it may have been one of your featured articles. A mixed european force withstood the invasion of a much larger I think Islamic force. The europeans were outnumbered, but knew that they could not surrender because the invading force had been completely irradicating all the cities which they came across.

They fortified a city and managed to prevent the invading force from tunneling under the city walls. Sharpened shovels were used as a multi purpose digging tool and weapon in the confined tunnel space. Eventually the invading force who had laid siege to the city had to turn away.

The europeans had far fewer weapons and people, and I think they may have been led by a Hollander.

Are you thinking perhaps of the Siege of Vienna in 1529, or possibly the 1683 Battle of Vienna?-gadfium 09:43, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I believe the answer is the The Battle of Tours which was led by Charles Martel. The end of the Battle of Tours article states "For his defense of Europe against both Muslim invasion and barbarian incursions, but most specifically for his victory in this battle, Charles Martel is considered a hero in the Netherlands, a vital part of the Carolingian Empire, and the Low Countries. In both France and Germany he is revered as a hero of epic proportions. Gibbon called him "the paramount prince of his age."" and this seems to match what the poster meant.--69.171.123.148 03:28, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I'd rule out the Battle of Tours (732), as the question mentions a fortified city with city walls. The Battle of Tours took place in the flat open country between Tours and Poitiers, and there were few cities worthy of the name before the rebirth of cities in Europe around the twelfth century. That suggests you take a closer look at the Siege of Vienna or the Battle of Vienna.

FWIW, there were also many lesser "invasions" of Europe by Islamic raiding parties. --SteveMcCluskey 19:35, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Spirit Decanters

Which spirits are appropriate to be kept in crystal decanters and what is wrong with keeping them in the original bottle in which they came? The decanter article only seems to deal with wine decanters. How do you know which spirit is in which decanter? --Username132 (talk) 11:26, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Any spirit can be transferred to a decanter, if it has a good airtight seal; or to any without a seal if you only keep them a few days. You put spirits into decanters because you have decanters, and want to show them off. Or because you think it's how the people in the social class to which you aspire behave. Or because you hope to conceal the inferior brands you purchased. Terribly middle class. People who use decanters rarely have so many that it's possible to lose track of what you have; it would be rare to find someone, for example, using decanters for two malt whisky bottlings they cared to tell apart. Nevertheless, some people hang little decorative labels from chains around the neck. People who care enough to tell one whisky from another, or whisky from whiskey, would almost certainly not decant them. The justifications which apply to wine (beyond the social and pretentious ones) do not apply to any spirit. I should confess: we have some small decanters which we put whisky into and leave in guest rooms. I leave it up to you to speculate why. Notinasnaid 13:09, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

• Originally wine, port and sherry were decanted because corking techniques were not as good and the wines were full of sediment and bits of cork so it was decanted and strained so it was clear when it came to the table.Spirits were often purchased in small barrells and therefor some was run off into a decanter to serve at table. Decanters also were often in the form of a tantalus which could be locked to stop the staff getting at it.*hic*--hotclaws**==(217.39.11.210 05:36, 21 June 2006 (UTC))

earth is round?

Hi Can u pls tell me who is credited with determining that the Earth is round (and when this is attributed)?

Thanks very much.

ryan rose email deleted for your own good

See Spherical Earth and Flat Earth Nowimnthing 15:03, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

My favorite is Aristotle. He figured it out and then dismissed it as inconsistent with universal rules. (He figured it out with nothing but his bare eyes. He saw the earth's shadow during a lunar eclipse. Seeing that, he noted that, if the earth were flat, the shadow of the earth on the moon would have to be flat at some point during the eclipse. The only shape that would always give a half circle is a sphere.) Geogre 17:25, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I like Eratosthenes who calculated the circumference with a stick! I just caught the remastered Cosmos where Carl Sagan gushes about him. Nowimnthing 18:56, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

IQ of Earth

An NSF Fellow and principle investigator on analog/digital pacemakers told me that he thought that the total IQ points for the planet is a constant, but the population isn't. It was how he explained the zeitgeist paradox, when there are some periods in history when it seems like every other person was a genius. (During the Elizabethan era, all of England had a population less than current day New York City. So, are there 3-4 Shakespeares we're not seeing in NYC, or is the world dumber?) Geogre 03:56, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

(This looks like a new question, not a respone to the previous question - so I moved it.)

That theory has been around a long time. When I studied Nation of Islam, the creation story that I got from a prison visit included the observation that only 10% of all humans are real humans (with intelligence). The rest are animals that mimic humans. So, if only 10% are intelligent, the average IQ would remain constant. Note: I never found a similar story in any other study of Islam. The whole story was used to explain why Nation of Islam members are justified in hating white (devil) people. --Kainaw ^(talk) 15:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I didn't really mean for it to be a question, but the paradox of certain moments producing disproportionate genius has vexed people for a while. One thought is, of course, Hegel's zeitgeist. Another was that climate was to blame. Another was that it took political and cultural revolutions, where the debris of certainty had been blown away. The "constant IQ points" thing was intended as a joke. I think, by the way, that the Islamic idea you mention is based on the idea of djinn and ifreeti and such. The early Gnostics similarly felt that there were simulacra running around. Geogre 19:36, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Who says there aren't 3 or 4 Shakespeares in New York? Because we haven't been drowned under a tidal wave of plays about mediaeval European kings? The Elizabethan geniuses worked in the fields that were available to them, and people like Woody Allen, Dr Dre, Alex Haley, and Barbara McClintock work in theirs. The relative dearth of women 'geniuses' in past eras doesn't mean that the concentration of IQ in females is more concentrated, does it?--Anchoress 19:48, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

That, of course, is the converse: that there are so many geniuses, and we're simply not finding out about them. (No, I wouldn't put any of those people you mention up with John Webster, much less Marlowe, much less Jonson, much less Shakespeare.) There is one argument that we have as many geniuses, but our media are controlled to such a degree that we don't get anyone who's really brilliant. Another argument is that we're not seeing them because our qualification system prevents "untrained" people like Shakespeare from getting a chance (and Shakespeare's King John is not a good play). That women weren't represented in the past is another argument, but it can be an argument for or against the idea that there are magical epochs and zeitgeists. (And, incidentally, comparing what's out right now with the English renaissance favorably shows either an exaggerated pleasure in what's out now or a stunted appreciation of what they did. "Some medieval kings" isn't it, you know.) Geogre 20:50, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Richard the LionHeart's Sword

I need to know what Richard the Lionheart's sword looked like. There are a couple versions. There is a statue of him holding a sword infront of Westminster. Please let me know the most accruate historical desciption of his sword. I belive it has his crest of three lions. Do not answer the question if your answer does not provide any helpful information. Thank You.

Maybe he had more than one? AnonMoos 17:01, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

don't bother looking at the statue. Here is a roughly contemporary image, fwiiw. He lived in the 12th century, so he would probably have had an Oakeshott XII blade [15]. dab (ᛏ) 17:15, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Bible on the Index??

I have here a recent magazine article claiming that "on 22 March 1745, the Vatican put the Bible itself on the Index" (for its sexually explicit scenes). However, I can find no evidence of this whatsoever on the Internet. Is the claim mis-reported, simply invented, or true after all? dab (ᛏ) 17:05, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Certain kinds of Protestants have accused the Catholic church of effectively discouraging Bible-reading by Catholic laymen at various times, since (they allege) the Catholic church doesn't want laymen to directly interpret the Bible for themselves, but instead wants them to get an official interpretation at second hand from priests and the church hierarchy. I bet that what you refer to (if there's any factual basis to it) would have to do with this issue, and not with sex in the Bible at all... AnonMoos 17:13, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

what do you mean, "certain kinds of Protestants"? The Catholic Church did, in fact, discourage laypeople from reading the bible at a certain interval of its history (13th to 16th centuries); the Vatican in 1234 outlawed Bible translations, effectively preventing the Bible from being read by people not versed in Latin, Greek or Hebrew (viz., the clergy). That is however far from equivalent to putting the Bible on the Index. The reason for this tendency is, of course, the existence of certain passages (including sexually explicit ones) that the Church considered difficult to interpret correctly without the proper theological background, so yes, Biblical sex, drugs and violence is at the core of this. But that still leaves me with no idea of whether the 1745 date is a pure invention. dab (ᛏ) 17:27, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I mean that for some Protestants, anyone who discourages or restricts Bible-reading in any way in any context is by definition doing Satan's work on earth ipso facto. I still bet that it has little directly to do with sex. AnonMoos 17:44, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Sounds like nonsense to me. What magazine is this, now? --Fastfission 21:46, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I've come to the same conclusion now; it's from a Swiss magazine, it usually has rather high quality, but I suppose the more critically you look at journalism, the more it looks like nonsensical babble. dab (ᛏ) 00:09, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Appropriate Consitency For Creme Brulee

What is the appropriate consitency for creme brulee? I thought it should be almost jelly-like, whilst my mum says a thick custard consitancy. --Username132 (talk) 19:00, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Our very own article on Creme brulee describes the base as a custard, as do most of the external links that I could find. The recipes I found also describe cooking a custard (see here and here, for example), so I think your mum wins this round. --LarryMac 20:31, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Your mum definently wins. I've baked more creme brulee than I care to remember - my mom was a caterer - and it's ideally a smooth, creamy custard. --George 04:11, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Country names

This is such a basic question that I don't know how to research it in the encyclopedia. Why do countries have different names in other countries? For example, the country we call Germany is Deutschland to its citizens. Why don't we use the name they use? The name Germany obviously comes from the Latin word Germania, but why do we use it? The Germans (or Deutsche) call our country Die Vereinigten Staaten von Amerika, an understandable translation of The United States of America, but they don't call our nation something completely different from our formal name. I shouldn't ask why this is "allowed", because sovereign nations can do just about whatever they want. But why is this done? 66.213.33.2 19:01, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

try the language reference desk - WP:RD/L VdSV9•♫ 19:40, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Because we don´t speak the same language and therefore simply have to translate names? Languages, names, and the respective translations simply change with the passing of time. It seems to me that you are of the opinion that names should not be translated. Well too bad for you, because they simply are. It is unavoidable, it is...their destiny. (Darth Vader is soo cool)

In a normal converation the Germans don´t speak about "die Vereinigten Staaten von Amerika" they speak about "die USA". Besides, the official name of Germany (on official documents) isn´t "Deutschland" but "Bundesrepublik Deutschland" or "Deutsche Bundesrepublik" ("Federal republic of Germany" and "German federal republic").

"Germania" is the name given by the Romans and they wrote down history, instead of the ileterate "barbaric" German tribes. Therefore "Germania" was translated into English: "Germany". Realize that a tipical country (besides the "young" USA) had plenty of diffrent names during history, and these name changed as the political systems changed, empires were disolved, etc.

My favourite example for this process, is the name Jesus, who was probably called "Joshua", or something like that (I don't understand Aramaic). As this name was translated into Greek and later into Latin his name changed into "Iesus" (in classical Latin the letter "J" hadn't been invented yet). Translate that into English and you end up with "Jesus". Ask the average person on the street and he will tell that the "dude on the cross" is called "Jesus". Flamarande 20:01, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

The idea is that people did travel less when foreign country names were first learned. They were approximate pronunciations or rough translations or figures of speech (a province name for the entire country) and sometimes names given by a conqueror. Then people stick to an historical name, as different as the real one as a name for any thing in a foreign language - which disturbs no one. This was done regardless of the fact that a country name is a proper name and not a common name.

Nowadays when a country does change its name, the information is relayed by the media and people sometimes follow it. The same goes with foreign money, some towns ... other examples maybe. --DLL 20:36, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

The English speaking world is a bit inconsistent about it. Nobody would think of talking about Peking, or Ceylon, or Rhodesia anymore. But the Netherlands and Holland are still interchangeable, in conversation at least. JackofOz 21:14, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Germany is an interesting case, even more interesting when you're refering to the German language. In so many languages, "German" is refered to in a seemingly unique, unrelated way. In English we refer to someone speaking "German", in German itself the word is "Deutsch", the French refer to the German language as "Allemand", and in Russian, it's refered to as "Nyemnitski Yezik", which can roughly be translated as "the language of those who cannot speak". It's an interesting phenomenon, but I have no particular explanation for it. Loomis 21:48, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

The names of Germany all derive from the tribes that inhabited it including the Germans and the Alemannic (hence the spanish word is Alemania). Since the country germany or Deutschland) was formed long after the areas people had already been named in all languages. Philc _T^E_C^I 22:08, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

One thing to keep in mind that these names in other languages generally predate the named entities' becoming nation states with official names. Germany as a nation state is a recent invention; see Unification of Germany. The official name then became Deutsches Kaiserreich, and I can foregive the Anglo-Saxons for not attempting to mangle that. Until 1806 the official name of the originally loose conglomeration of German states was the Heilige Römische Reich. In the good old days things were often not as clear-cut as they are made to be today; see for example the question whether Pope Adrian VI was Dutch or Deutsch. --Lambiam^Talk 22:34, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

The official name of the German Empire was Deutsches Reich. --Cam 03:41, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

It amuses me when countries request outsiders to change what they call them. Sometimes the requests stick, like Myanmar and Côte d'Ivoire (a new one is Timor-Leste), though there are always a few hold-outs who refuse to change their usage. Other requests remain largely unfulfilled, like Czechia (proposed by the Czech government in 1993) and Türkiye (the Turkish name for their country, proposed by the Turkish government IIRC in the late 1980's for English-language use, to avoid confusion with other English uses of the word turkey). ---Cam 03:52, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Does anybody outside Timor-Leste call it "Timor-Leste"? I've never heard it called anything except "East Timor", except by East Timorese people. Which is a pity, 'cos Timor-Leste is much more euphonious and evocative name. JackofOz 07:24, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, all the portuguese speaking countries use "Timor-Leste" and that is it. But "Côte d'Ivoire" hasn´t entered common usage. Almost everybody continues to use "Ivory coast" (except those who speak French). Even in the world championship they used the later name. What bugs me is that "old" names (who were universaly recognized in the english language) are being changed (e.g. Mao Tse-Tung > Mao Ze Dong) for all kind of dubious reasons (usualy political corectness). Flamarande 08:40, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

There's a lot of countries that changed their names, usually on decolonisation, creating new ones or digging up ancient ones. Ghana. Togo. Benin. Sri Lanka. Bangladesh (from West Pakistan, and "Pakistan" was only coined recently). Iran. The reason people notice "Côte d'Ivoire" is that it changed its name into something literal in French, which the other nations didn't do - the others changed to something essentially meaningless to Western ears so it still "sounded like a country". Shimgray | talk | 18:50, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I particulary like fancy names like "Deutsche Demokratische Republic = German Democratic Republic" and "République Démocratique du Congo = Democratic Republic of the Congo". Somehow the leaders of such countries like to pretend that they are democratic. "Only in name" takes a literal meaning here. Flamarande 20:42, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, Upper Volta seems to have been successful in getting the rest of the world to call it Burkina Faso. User:Zoe|^(talk) 02:17, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

It's also both interesting and counter-intuitive, though not surprising, that in the PC world we live in, the less "European" or "Caucasian" the inhabitants of a given country are, the more likely English speakers will be corrected into using "better", more "authentic" versions of their name, lest they be labeled ignorant bigots.

Within Europe for example, the English language is obviously far more related to the dozens of other languages spoken in Europe than it is to, for example, a language spoken halfway around the world such as Cantonese Chinese.

Yet English speakers are never reprimanded for "renaming" foreign European place-names, even when the original name is rather easily pronounceable in English, for example:

The Italian Roma is refered to as Rome, similarly "Varsava" is renamed Warsaw, "Moskva" - Moscow. "Budapesht" - Budapest. "Napoli" - Naples. "Firenze" - Florence...the list goes on and on.

Yet refer to China's "Guangdong Province" as "Canton Province" (with the understanding that perhaps a Cantonese word may be just a bit tougher for an English speaker to pronounce than, say, the word "Roma",) and you're considered an ignorant bigot...go figure. Loomis 00:34, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Check out Names of European cities in different languages. There are hundreds of examples of English place names that are different in other languages. Just take London - its alternative versions include: Landan, Llundain, Londain, Londe, Londen, Londhíno, Londinium, Londona, Londonas, Londono, Londra, Londres, Londrez, Londyn, Londýn, Lontoo, Loundres, and Lundúnir. So it's not a question of "reprimanding" anybody. That would require some unwritten law to have been transgressed. There is no such law, as the above list clearly demonstrates, and we've all been gulled into being terribly PC about this issue. How about a little more tolerance for diversity? JackofOz 14:50, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I think I completely agree with you Jack, and I think you're agreeing with me, but as usual, I'm not 100% sure. In any case, my point is simple: Naturally, different people from different parts of the world speak different languages and have different phonetic skills, and therefore, refer to different places with different names. I think that's all great. I just find it annoying when I'm (fine, not reprimanded, but certainly) looked down upon when I pronounce the "R" in a name like "Nicaragua" with that typically North American English HARD "R" rather than vainly attempting to contort my mouth and tongue in a manner they're simply not capable of, to produce that precise "trill" that a native Spanish speaker would have no problem with. I also refuse to apologize for not having the Mandarin skills to know the precise pronunciation of Mao Tse-Tung/Mao Ze Dong (or even to be able to tell the subtle difference between the two...after all, the newly corrected "Mao Ze Dong" will certainly not be the last iteration of the way the man's name should "truly" be pronounced by westerners).

We English speakers too employ a couple of sounds that most non-English speakers find incredibly hard to pronounce. A great example is our "th" sound. Yet would any of us be so rude as to point out to a non-native English speaker that "Pert" or "Perse" is an incorrect way of pronouncing "Perth, Australia"? Or correct a foreigner describing what a lovely time s/he had while vacationing in "Nort" America, and in particular, how beautiful he or she found "Marta's" Vineyard to be? Would we consider them ignorant bigots for refusing to learn the correct way to pronounce the "th" sound? Of course not. It's completely understandable that they would have such a difficulty, as it's not a sound that exists in their native tongue. God forbid, though, I should ever dare to refer to the capital of PROC as Peking!

The funniest thing of all, though, is that I happen to have an unusually large number of Chinese-Canadian friends, most born in China. I seem to be very comfortable and at ease with this nationality in particular. At work I naturally gravitate toward my Chinese colleagues. (And trust me, ask anyone here, I'm no PC panderer, if there's a culture out there that I find myself less than comfortable with, I'd be the first to say so, and indeed I HAVE, so please don't regard this as another pretentious instance of "tokenism"). In any case, my Chinese friends (especially those newest to Canada) are completely bewildered when I tell them that the term "Oriental" is considered offensive these days, and that the more acceptable term is "East-Asian". They seem to have no idea why on earth nowadays we shun the word "Oriental", which is of course merely latin for "eastern". In fact, it's not these often discriminated against visible minorities that take issue with terms like "Oriental", or "Peking", rather, as it would seem it seems to be some odd phenomenon apparently dreamt up by apparently guilt ridden white, English speaking, PC westerners. As if altering the English language would somehow erase racism. Quite the contrary. I see all these ridiculous name changes as an odd sort of distraction, a distraction from what REALLY needs to be done, which is simply to treat each and every individual with the respect they deserve. (And if certain individuals don't deserve respect, then, hell, by all means! Disrespect them!) Loomis 20:52, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

12 Angry Men: Why all men

Regarding the 1957 film 12 Angry Men: This may be a dumb question, but in the ... why are all the jurors male? If picked randomly, there's only a 1-in-4096 chance that all the jurors would be male. Did women rarely or never participate in jury service in 1957? Were women all weeded out in jury selection on the grounds that men are more likely to vote death penalty? --Alecmconroy 21:00, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Women were not called for jury duty until the 1960's, I believe. The film was based on a play, and both were done before women began being called. This was long after women had voting rights. (Jury and Jury duty would be the logical articles to see.) Geogre 03:51, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Only full citizens can become jurors, and women became full citizens quite recently. The USA are not the finest example (despite common belief) of giving rights to any group. Women recieved the right to vote around or after the WWI, and a whole generation had to pass before they became really accepted, and were considerd potential jurors. And even today the trend still continues. Look around, surely somewhere in Wikipedia you will find some article about this. Flamarande 21:29, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

That's utter nonsense. Women were full citizens from the time of the formation of the country, save for voting rights. They were taxed, after all, and counted in the census, and used to determine population. And they were given the suffrage long before the play came out. You'll have to ask the original author why he chose only men for the jury. User:Zoe|^(talk) 02:19, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

There's also the issue of how jurors are selected. Voter registration is used in my county. So, if you don't register to vote, you won't get selected for jury duty - even if you are legally allowed to be a juror. Therefore, no woman could be a juror in my county until she registered to vote. --Kainaw ^(talk) 15:22, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

It's the same in the United States, where the film was set. I top-posted a bit because one answer wanted to maintain that the jurors were male in the movie because women weren't allowed to vote or given full franchise. That's incorrect, rather strongly incorrect. Jury pools simply lagged behind a bit. The reasons could have been chivalric or misogynistic, could have been 'because mothers are too important to sequester' or because 'women are too given to emotion to judge,' but it wasn't because women couldn't vote. Geogre 17:02, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I think it was a state-by-state issue for awhile. The ACLU, for example, fought (and won) a case in 1975 which a Louisiana law prohibiting women from being on juries challenged as unconstitutional (violated a female defendant's right to a jury of her peers, Sixth Amendment). Sadly we have no article on the case (Taylor v. Louisiana). --Fastfission 20:04, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Additionally, the odds are only 1-in-4096 if you assume an equal chance of men and women being in the eligible jury pool. Even today that is not necessarily the case, as voter registration statistics are not exactly 50/50 (though today I believe women are registered at a slightly higher rate than men). Additionally there a number of occupations which traditionally are exempt from jury duty which have major gender discreprencies (such as teachers). --Fastfission 19:59, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

william shakespeare

I am trying to sale my copied manuscript of a mortgage deed that William Shakepeare had written.

Translation in english of the mortgage deed is written on the backside.

No damage.

Thanks,

Peyton

That's interesting. I hope you find a buyer. schyler 21:31, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Got to Ebay to sell it, please. Wikipedia not an online market. Flamarande 21:32, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

What language is on the frontside? Did you do the copying yourself? How do you know 'twas the immortal bard who wrote the original deed? Whose leg(s) are you trying to pull? --Lambiam^Talk 08:01, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

"translation on the back" -- from what language???

Simple...Shakespeare spoke English, so the deed was likely written in English. It was then translated from English to English. Makes perfect sense. (huh?) Loomis 19:47, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

BTW, what's the mileage of the manuscript? Has it been in any accidents? Any rust? Oh...sorry, I could have sworn I was in my local newspaper's classified section. Loomis 19:47, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, if, supposing just for a moment, this were real, the language would be Latin. Still, I think this is along the lines of the son of Soni Abache wanting to smuggle $20 million out and needing just your bank account and routing numbers. Geogre 21:00, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

St Teresa's Shubra

Hi There,

Wanting to know any information about St Teresa's in Shubra Egypt. It's a Catholic Church that my Mum used to visit as a kid, but when she went back this year it was guarded and she wasn't allowed in. Any information on it's history (when it was built etc) and why is it now guarded would be great? Apparently there was a body (not St Teresa's real body), but also a finger that was apparently hers. I have become intrigued and a little obsessed with trying to find out anything.

Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks

There is a picture of it here. And another picture and a map showing where it is on this page. --Cam 14:58, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

A Film Based Wikipedia

To Whom This May Concern at Wikipedia,

I found that there were different types of Wikipedias such as Wookiepedia which is based on all information regarding the Star Wars Universe but I was wondering if there was the same thing for Film. I cannot find many of the specific and hard to find tidbits throughout the history of film on the main page. If you already have one could you please e-mail me at (e-mail address removed to prevent spam) and tell me how to get there. If not then could you please start one. Thanks

Please don't post your e-mail here, we answer questions within the desk itself. You can sign your comments by adding four tildes (~~~~) to the end of your post. Emmett5 22:57, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Go to the Community Portal page and ask there about interest. There is a pay Wiki-Cities endeavor where such a thing would be possible to start, if you don't have servers. Otherwise, you would need to go to Wikimedia, if you want it to be under Wikipedia's auspices. It's not a bad idea (Wiki-cine? Cinewiki?). You can get the wiki software, if you wish to webhost a project, as it's open-source. I don't know of a wiki devoted to film at present, though. Geogre 03:49, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I suppose you realize there is already a huge mass of information about films in Wikipedia. Take a look at lists of films for starters.--Shantavira 06:29, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Wookiepedia is a wiki not a Wikipedia. Wikipedia is an online encyclopedia hosted by the Wikimedia Foundation. A wiki is a website using wiki software. - Mgm|^(talk) 11:49, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

How about we make a movie based on Wikipedia, specifically on the ref desk. It has a huge cast of characters played by some of the most fascinating actors you'd find anywhere; a crazy plot that's full of twists and turns and is guaranteed to keep you on the edge of your seat; and the director is constantly being replaced, which will have you wondering "what on earth will be coming next". Just when you think it's starting to take itself too seriously, it launches into something really humorous, and the journey continues. It has drama, pathos, and is full of surprises. On the other side of the ledger, it doesn't have much romance - well, none actually - and there's a noticeable absence of a decent music score. But all in all, it's thoroughly good value. 5 stars. JackofOz 12:24, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

What are you talking about? There's a great soundtrack; the only problem is that all of the songs are less than 30 seconds, for copyright reasons. --ByeByeBaby 13:58, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

And what would my part be? I'm thinking the voice would be that of James Earl Jones, dressed in some incredibly evil costume, yet somehow possessing inexplicable charisma, tempting the rest of you: "Embrace the dark side of Wiki, its right wing...join me...that's where your true destiny lies". Loomis 23:55, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Inexplicable indeed, Loomis. (Lol. Don't worry, we all still love you. Well, I do anyway. Which is equally inexplicable, and scary.) JackofOz 14:10, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

And there you were saying the movie wouldn't have any romance -- Ferkelparade π 14:15, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Romance? Not much. Sexual frustration? Enough to fuel a quasar. (I can imagine our Jo Swington Cassanova wandering through frame every few minutes....) Geogre 15:01, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

My Rights (when approached by police in Canada)

Hi there,

I've been researching my rights as a Canadian citizen, especially when approached by police. I'm not looking for legal advice, maybe just some insight. I've read over the Charter of Rights and Freedoms which seems rather straightforward, and it seems pretty similar to most laws in the United States. For instance, if I'm walking down the street, do I have to speak to the officer or provide identification? (Rationale being that it's my right to be in a public place.) Also, what are grounds for an officer legally searching my person without my consent? "Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure." Not that descriptive, to me anyway. Any pieces of advice or references for reputable websites would be appreciated. Though I'm still a student, none of this was taught to me in high school. Thanks in advance everyone, Mrtea (talk) 22:49, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi, here's insight, I don't know if I'm absolutely right. First, it all comes down to three things:

1. Whether or not you are reasonably suspected of having committed a crime.
2. Your attitude, and to a lesser extent, your appearance, location and the people you're with.
3. What the cops had for breakfast.

Technically you don't have to talk to them or show identification. But while I probably wouldn't show identification unless I'd been seen spitting off a bridge, I wouldn't refuse to talk to them and I'd be careful to seem cooperative. We've all heard lots of stories about the latitude many police depts give officers (moving people and dumping them, etc). Also, you have to stay well away from anything that can be construed as being uncooperative or resisting arrest. Asking the officer why s/he has stopped you and what the problem is is 100% within your rights.

My understanding, in short, is that officers of the law can't compel you to do anything unless they have a reasonable suspicion that you've done something illegal, or have something to do with a crime. Unfortunately, what constitutes reasonable suspicion is very grey, and if you get justifiably (from your POV) lippy with an officer and lose a tooth on your way to lockup, it really doesn't matter if you haven't done anything wrong and the officer may not face any disciplinary action for roughing you up.--Anchoress 23:23, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm afraid it's all in the precedents, which flesh out the S.8 right in question, in pretty much the same manner as the 4th amendment has been in the U.S. In other words, if you have the patience to read a couple of thousand pages of case law, you'll get a pretty could idea of where the law stands. I suppose I could give a far more extensive answer to this question, but I'm afraid I'd be violating a yet-to-be-articulated wiki rule, do not bore wikipedians to death with lengthy dissertations on Canadian Constitutional Law. Otherwise, your best bet is to wait for yet another spin-off of Law & Order, one dealing with a squad of Canadian detectives. I can see it now: Law & Order - CJ: "Canadian Justice" - lol, I wouldn't hold my breath. Loomis 10:03, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Everyone seems to be asking about Canada (remember that question about shooting Canadians near the border from the US side). Is there any reason to be worried. I've seen a lot more police on the streets in New York than in Toronto, and never was I approached by a policeman in Canada, while I have been in New York.

A website you might try checking is the Canadian Civil Liberties Association--Anchoress 11:12, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Quoting a website in a press release

Cross post - sorry, I don't know the best place to post it.

I'm writing a press release and I've done a heap of research on how to do it right, but there's something I haven't found; what's the legality of quoting something that's been said by a particular person on a website? Do I have to get permission, or is it available to be quoted by virtue of being public? I would be crediting the originator.--Anchoress 23:15, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Assuming you're an American, it would almost certainly be fair use, assuming the borrowings are short. --Robert Merkel 01:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm, I'm not sure about that. Since the intention is to get the press release published in a bunch of newspapers, I don't see how it would fit under fair use.--Anchoress 02:23, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

You're allowed to quote brief extracts, but not a substantial part of an original. The exact proportion is not legally defined. Whether something has or has not previously been published before is not the issue: it is still copyright. If it's just a short quote, you should be OK. Tyrenius 02:40, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

OK, that's awesome. Thanks to both of you for the info. I was just worried because the only concrete info I've been able to find online says that if you quote people without getting permission you could be sued. But I guess that means stuff that hasn't been published? Cuz I guess the web is kind of like a book or other publication? If it's already out there the person has committed themselves, so quoting them from a web publication is like quoting another published source?--Anchoress 02:50, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Ismail Haniya and Mahmoud Abbas

1. Are the majority of Palestinians Shia?
2. Are the Palestinian prime minister and president both Shia?Patchouli 23:47, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

1. No.

2. I strongly doubt that either one is, but Hamas is certainly willing to work with Hezbollah and Iran!

AnonMoos 02:00, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I thought the Islamic Republic of Iran is sending money to the Palestinians because they are Shia; apparently I was wrong.Patchouli 02:10, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Iran gives Hamas money because they both are dedicated to the destruction of Israel. I doubt the Sh'ia/Sunni divide has any relevance to either of them. Loomis 23:40, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I think you are confusing with Hezbollah, which is supported by Iran and is based in Lebanon. As far I know, most Shia muslims are Iranian, while Azerbaijan and Lebanon are Shia too, and there is a substantial number of them in Iraq and Pakistan. Evilbu 10:20, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

June 21

Hispanic Immigrants / US Colleges

Hi

I am looking for resources that help hispanic immigrants (college students) assimilate themselves into Americain society. For a hispanic immigrant student looking to attend a United States college, what resources are available to him/her? (On a nationwide basis). What services do colleges offer to immigrants, and what can a hispanic immigrant expect to find in the US college system that is different than that of their own college system (using Mexican colleges as a base, even though there will be differences in where people come from). Any and all ideas would be VERY appreciated. Thanks!

Please don't post the same question on more than one board. StuRat 04:29, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION?

if they wanted to could they make an amendment to make dry cleaning legal?--Bee(y)^Ti 01:24, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Two thirds of both houses of congress and three fourths of the state legislatures could pass an amendment on any subject that they wanted -- except denying a state equal representation in the Senate without its consent... AnonMoos 02:40, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Um, dry cleaning is already legal. —Keenan Pepper 02:44, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

• yes but it's legality isn't explicitly guaranteed under the US Constitution--Bee(y)^Ti 02:46, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I think you mean "could they make dry cleaning a guaranteed right." The answer is yes. Theoretically, one can amend the Constitution to say anything, with the possible exception of totally invalidating itself and setting up a new constitution. That's debatable, but it's also a whole 'nother topic. --George 04:06, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

As pointed out, dry cleaning is already legal. Despite the silliness of the question, If you want to pinpoint where in the constitution the legality of "dry cleaning" would be arrived at, it would have to be the 10th Amendment (the residual amendment): "The powers not delegated to the United States [the federal government] nor prohibited by it to the States, [as dry cleaning is not], are reserved to the States respectively [i.e. dry cleaning could be legislated upon by the individual States, but I know of no such law] or to the people [i.e. dry cleaning is legal since no State has made it illegal as far as I know]. Loomis 09:50, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Legality isn't explicitly guaranteed? That's just bizarre. Is this another wind-up? I think you'll find that everything is legal unless there's a law against it; not the other way round. Is there an amendment explicitly making any form of cleaning legal?--Shantavira 06:35, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Is this some sort of joke? The above paragraph doesn't even make sense, as it clearly contradicts itself. The fourth sentence alone actually makes sense: "I think you'll find that everything is legal unless there's a law against it; not the other way round". The rest of the paragraph is just a bunch of contradictory nonsense. In fact the whole question seems to be too moronic to be actually a serious one: A constitutional amendment making dry cleaning legal? Here's a better topic: Does Congress have the power to declare war against the planet Neptune? Any ideas, anybody?

Money laundering is illegal. What if you left money in a pocket when you have your clothes dry cleaned? I hope every concerned U.S. citizen will urge their elected representatives for the following amendment to the Bill of Rights: Clean clothes being necessary to the well-being of the People, the right of the People to have their clothes dry cleaned shall not be infringed. --Lambiam^Talk 08:16, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

metal, rock and ...

There is a genre called metal, another called rock and... (the name of the 3rd, is punk rock???? Hardcore??? Or what??)

So my question is: What is the right name of the genre that some people call punk rock and others hardcore???

It's always hard to classify music into genres, since something will always fall on the line between genres. As far as I'm concerned, finding good music is more important than classifying it. To answer your question, though, I think most people consider hardcore to be a subgenre of punk rock, in the same way that something like ska-punk might be. That being said, I know that certain people who are really into that sort of music consider hardcore to be it's own genre, and the rest of punk to be too much like mainstream rock. I've also heard of hardcore as a "middle ground" that includes hardcore punk, as well as metalcore bands. In the end, it's all just music -- play it loud, and who cares exactly what it's called? --ByeByeBaby 02:58, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

As a first generation punk rocker, myself, all I'll say is that at this point the labels mean almost nothing, what with all the slicing and sifting they've received by fans and bands eager to claim to being unique or new. However, groups like Fear and The Germs came along after punk was well underway and were influenced by British punk bands that had been influenced by The Ramones. Some of them, like Mission of Burma and Husker Du, were just plain unique, as they worked out their own conclusions from unpredictable sources, but most of them were Sex Pistols and Clash influenced. Meanwhile, punk had started with Television (band) and The Patti Smith Group and Talking Heads, Blondie, and The Ramones. Nothing united them except a vaguely anti-corporate stance and a belief in art (well, maybe not The Ramones so much). I remember thinking that hardcore was far too monolithic, too fashion conscious, and too tightly policed, while the hardcore folks thought all the rest of us were sell-out wussies. We didn't mind. They did. Geogre 03:44, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Dominican Republic childhood

I am needing information on children raised in the Dominican Republic.

How are they weaned and when?

What type of toys do they have for their infants?

NGO Registration Law

I am looking to learn more about the specific legal process of registering a non-governmental organization in various countries (specifically, the United States and the UK, but also any other comparisons available), so that I might have a better understanding of the process of registering NGOs in Japan (for which I already have information) by comparison. Specifically I'm interested in what standards are required by governments' laws (is recognition dependent on the group's purpose, membership size, sources of funding, nature of activities engaged in, or can anyone with a name and a pen just fill out a form and charter themself an organization?) in order to achieve recognition, tax-exempt status, or any other associated benefits.

Any pointers would be most appreciated. Thanks,

61.7.120.10 03:29, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

In the US anyone can set up an NGO without any registration requirement. To be tax-exempt, however, it must be either a nonprofit organization or a not-for-profit organization (there is a subtle difference between the two). StuRat 04:22, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Could you elaborate on this subtle difference? The two wikilinks above redirect to the same aricle, wich appears to consider the two terms as being synonymous. --Lambiam^Talk 08:22, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

An ONG may finance its aims with collections only. Another may have a commercial activity, selling postcards, calendars, shirts ... for another charitable or lobbying aim. May commerce, or its percentage in global earnings, be the basis of the subtility that Stu indicates ?

Canada and the EU

Does Canada enjoy a closer relationship with the EU than the United States does? Bhumiya (said/done) 05:12, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

None that I can think of. Loomis 09:37, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Not as far as I know on any formal level. For obvious reasons Canada has some closer ties with the UK (not as many as you might think) but not the EU. DJ Clayworth 13:16, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Relations between nations are economical first, and then political. The EU may feel close, but does it sell and buy more than the US ? --DLL 16:56, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Cassius Longinus

I searched through all the articles "Cassius Longinus" and "Cassia gens" but I couldn't find the one that I want. I would like to know every particular about "Centurion" Cassius Longinus whose lance pierced Jesus-Christ's side. In France, Cassius Longinus is known as Saint Longin (but no more details are available).In the Philippines, Cassius Longinus is considered as a great saint: every year, men wear "masks" with a kind of roman helmet and blood running from the right eye (of the mask). Legend has it that Cassius Longinus was one-eyed and that when piercing Jesus-Christ's side, he received some blood in his eye and recovered the use of his right eye. But, what I need, is more details about Cassius Longinus' life and why he is such a great figure in the Philippines and nowhere else.
Thank you if you can help me.Marie5952

The name does not occur in the Bible or any historical document. I don't know the origin of the legend. Perhaps it plays a role that this is one of the three names appearing in the ninth and lowest level of hell in Dante's Inferno, together with Judas Ischariot. In the biblical narrative it isn't even clear the spear man is a centurion; John 19:34 just has "one of the soldiers pierced Jesus' side with a spear". There is a centurion in Mark 15:39, who is reported to have said: "Truly this man was the Son of God!". There is no specific reason or argument to link the two. --Lambiam^Talk 08:52, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Try Longinus (hagiography). Remember that this caracter is apocryphal (meaning largely invented). Flamarande 08:56, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I've never read them but there was a series of books about this character, all fictional. The story was that Jesus cursed him with immortality for sticking a spear in him & the books are his story. Could this be what you're thinking of? AllanHainey 11:37, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

This sounds as though it's mixing in elements of the Wandering Jew story. Grutness...wha? 12:50, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

See also Spear of Destiny. JackofOz

Also Holy Lance. Adam Bishop 15:26, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

[Do not underestimate the hypothesis that] in the Philippines, Christian missionaries might have propagated a specific cult to abate some similar cult also related to a broken eye - or a spear - or a mask. The Church had Jesus born on Dec., 25, notwithstanding what Mary would have said, because of old pagan solstice feasts near that date. --DLL 16:53, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

" African American Detective Novelist"

I read an article about an author but can't recall his name. He was born in the US (Harlem, perhaps?), but his family moved to France when he was young, where I believe his father had Professorship. He grew up to write detective or murder mysteries in the 50's-60's(?) known for their surrealism, because the brutal Harlem in his books was essentially reimagined from his childhood. I believe their was a major collection of his work published within the last 10 years. Do you think you can help me? Thank you so much.

Have you tried looking for a familiar name in African American literature? Maybe it's Chester Himes. VdSV9•♫ 17:37, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Maybe Walter Mosley?--Anchoress 19:06, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

He's wonderful, but he doesn't fit the profile of the question. Geogre 19:30, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Not a kibbutz, but a moshab?

I was watching an episode of the [Shalom Sesame] video series, that mentioned a "moshab", after talking about a kibbutz. The said that in a "moshab", they own the land themselves, and there are several other thing different in their operations than a kibbutz. What is the correct word that I'd be looking for? -- Zanimum 17:40, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps a moshav. --Kainaw ^(talk) 17:53, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Free Music Video Download...!!!

Anybody Knows a Free Music video & Movie Trailors download Site....!!!

I'm finding some music videos & Trailors for an urgent matter..

Thank you. A music lover

uh, not sure if this is what you want but You Tube, you can get most movie trailers at Apple. Nowimnthing 19:13, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Try VSpot; not exactly downloads but an online music video player. EvocativeIntrigue _{TALK | EMAIL} 22:25, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

jobs for kids

My 13 yr. old nephew lives in rural tennesse and is way too board haveing nothing to do, no place to do it, and no $ to do it with. He does have access to a computer but has no transportation access to go anyplace in person. His poor dad and mom are a little tired haveing him about as a full time couch spud. What would you do in this situatution? Helpfull advice most wellcome. Thanks (Hobgoblin) 19:37, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Take away the television/games and see what his hobby is. He may learn to work on the car. He may work in the garden. He may become a computer programmer. He may start learning foreign languages. He may sit and cry all day that he doesn't have a television or video game to waste his time. --Kainaw ^(talk) 19:43, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Send him to volunteer for the Summer Reading Club at the local library [16]. Even in rural Tennessee there should be one not that far away. Nowimnthing 19:55, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Send him to the United States Marine Corps, or their civilian counterparts the Boy scouts asap, and he will probably hate you for it for the rest of his life :). Seriously now, you are asking Wikipedia for family advice? I don't think we are qualified to give such counsel. Your nephew just needs to join a local team of football, soccer, basketball, whatever. Or perhaps a nice girl-friend. Flamarande 19:57, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

A) I agree with the 'family advice' thing above. B) What do the parents do? If they work outside the home, why not enrol him in a day camp or something and drop him off on the way to work? If they work in the home, enlist his help. If they don't work, then have him participate in whatever activities they engage in. If all they do is watch TV and play video games, then this is obviously a turf war and we shouldn't get involved. :-)--Anchoress 20:13, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

His dad works all day everyday (almost) mom is a semi-pro housenfrau & suby teacher dureing the school year. None of suggestions offered seem to be of aid as most are unavailable due to transportation problems (distance, lack of autos, etc.) Can a kid be a self taught computer progamer? Summer time blues are still ensueing. Any more ideas folks? Thanks 20:36, 21 June 2006 (UTC) (Hobgoblin)

Sounds like you or they are more interested in finding reasons why something can't be done instead of just doing it. Get the kid outside, have him cut the grass, whitewash the fence, build a stone fireplace, walk to town, find a job, whatever. Sell some crap on eBay and buy a bicycle. And yeah, anybody can be a self-taught programmer, even a no-good layabout like Bill Gates. --LarryMac 20:50, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I know many self-taught programmers, including some kids. The Logo programming language was specifically designed for young people. I've also heard of kids learning the ABC programming language with success and with just a little guidance. --Lambiam^Talk 22:35, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

• If he's too far away to get a job outside the home, then why not give him chores and reward him with an allowance if he does them. Then he's got cash too. Building model planes and flying them could be fun too. - Mgm|^(talk) 08:23, 22 June 2006 (UTC)`

The parents get him to do school work, and study so he would be head of class. This type of work will keep him productive and probaly would be of more value to him than a summer job or sport.

Bigamy in Ontario

I have a question regarding bigamy in Ontario. My friend was married January 2000 in Mexico, barefoot on a beach by December of the same year, they separated. Neither obtained a divorce. They thought that because the marriage was never registered in Ontario that the divorse would have to be done in Mexico, neither was about to return to Mexico, where they thought they would have to go for a divorce, so they called it a wash. My friend remarried, a year later, they obtained a valid marriage license in Ontario and married in Ontario, her new spouse was fully aware of the situation in regards to the marriage in Mexico. Since, they have separated and he, to be vindictive has claimed bigamy...Now, she is on charges of bigamy, she has spoken to three lawyers who cannot help her. She is a single mom with four children and is facing jail time in July for something that she did not have the mental intention to commit this crime. I guess I am wondering if there is any one or any thing that any of you with bright minds can think of that may help my friend and her children? We would all appreciate it so much...Thank you

Your best advice: get a lawyer. No judge in any court cares what the people at the Wikpedia reference desk think. --Kainaw ^(talk) 20:59, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Obviously she can't afford a good lawyer, otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion. Who are these three lawyers she's spoken to? They obviously don't know the slightest bit about criminal law. Unfortunately, criminal law is not my specialty either, but at least I'd do the decent thing and point her in the right direction, rather than throw my hands in the air as these shlocks seem to have done.

First of all, if a competent lawyer is beyond her means, she can obtain what the Americans call a public defender (I honestly don't know what the proper Canadian term would be in English). She could contact the local police or the local courthouse and explain the situation, and they should be able to set her up with such a lawyer free of charge. Of course public defenders aren't known to be the best lawyers in the world (to put it mildly! But I shouldn't generalize, some may be excellent,) so a good deal of research on her part would be of great help.

I do remember from my years at McGill that law schools tend to have free legal clinics, where law students get programme credit by doing their best to help people out with their legal problems.

I'm not sure where you're located in Ontario, but there are at least six law schools that I can think of in the province: University of Windsor, Western, U of T, York (Osgoode Hall), Queens and University of Ottawa. I suggest you call any one of those law schools, ask to be refered to their legal aid clinic, and (should they have one, which I'm almost certain they all would) tell them your situation. If one's no good try any of the others. They'll be eager to help, and they'd actually probably be able to add a lot more to your case than by letting the public defender go it alone.

In any case, "Mariage and Divorce" is a federal jurisdiction, and therefore the province you're in isn't really relevant; the law is the same throughout Canada. So should all else fail, you can always get in touch with McGill's clinic and they would be able to give you appropriate information. Good luck and feel free to ask any follow-ups including how to get in contact with McGill should the need arise! Loomis 23:12, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm afraid this sounds as clear a case of bigamy as could be. To paraphrase, "They got married, it was too much trouble to divorce, so they forgot about it instead". Instead of seeking legal advice on how to get off, your friend would be better advised to seek legal advice on how to minimize the punishment. Notinasnaid 09:31, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I disagree. The clearest case of bigamy would be: "here's my wife...and here's my other wife"; a scenario where the individual clearly has the intention of having two spouses. In the criminal law, intent is a major component. This individual clearly did not intend to have two husbands, but simply, and perhaps negligently, failed to "officially" divorce her first husband. Even if she was found guilty, I can't see a judge imposing any serious punishment such as actual jailtime. BTW, the prescribed sentence for the crime of bigamy in Canada has no minimum, meaning a judge can choose to sentence the accused to no jailtime whatsoever, but merely what amounts to a tiny slap on the wrist, (i.e. a small fine, and possibly even no punishment at all...but I'm not 100% on that one,) with a MAXIMIUM sentence of five years imprisonment. Loomis 13:16, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Ha!!! Forget the above paragraph!!! (Actually don't forget it, it's still relevant, but what I've just discovered is EXTREMELY interesting, and would serve as an invaluable tool in this situation). The questioner mentioned that "her new spouse was fully aware of the situation in regards to the marriage in Mexico" (i.e. that they she was not officially divorced). Welllll...according to s.290(1)(a)(ii) of the Criminal Code of Canada: "Everyone commits bigamy who, in Canada...knowing that another person is married, goes through a form of marriage with that person..." In other words, the vindictive prick who's accusing her of bigamy is himself equally guilty of bigamy!! I suggest the questioner should report the second husband to the police, accusing him of bigamy, and then wait to see what happens once the smoke clears. If anything, he'd get a taste of his own medicine!

Of course this may pose a problem when it comes to proof. If he denies that he knew, it's a simple matter of he said/she said, and her accusation might not fly. It would be great if she had some hard evidence that he knew, such as, perhaps, a saved love-letter indicating that he was aware she was not yet "officially" divorced but wanted to marry her anyway "because Mexican marriages don't count in Canada anyway" or something like that. Some sort of proof like that would be invaluable. Loomis 13:16, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

If she was married to a guy who was already married, then he is being bigamous. Not her, obviously, I mean, for what I understand of bigamy is, you have two spouses, and she had only one! It just doesn't make sense to me that she is being accused of anything, so I suggest she goes with the Chewbacca Defence. VdSV9•♫ 15:51, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

V, I think you may be misunderstanding the situation (or perhaps I am, in which case I'd be grateful to anyone who can correct my misunderstanding). The question was actually rather difficult to follow and phrased in a rather confusing manner, so I don't think either one of us can be blamed for misreading it. Yet, I'm pretty sure I've got the situation straight, and I'll try to boil down the question to the essential facts (again, correct me where you feel I've got it wrong):

The accused got married to Mr. X in Mexico in January 2000. About a year later, they separated, but to-date have never officially divorced. A year later, the accused got remarried in Canada to a certain Mr. Y. Apparently Mr. Y was fully aware that the accused and Mr. X had never officially divorced. Now the accused and Mr. Y have separated. To be vindictive, Mr. Y has apparently filed a complaint with the authorities, charging the accused with the crime of bigamy, since she married him while she was still legally married to Mr. X.

The situation is of a WOMAN being charged with bigamy for having two husbands, not the other way around.

Legal definitions often defy common sense and/or common dictionary definitions. A perfect example is the legal definition of the word "person". According to common sense and its simple dictionary definition, a "person" is defined simply as a "human being". However according to the law, corporations are equally considered as persons (unless the term "person" is qualified by another term. For example, one would have to add the qualifier natural to the term "persons" in order to refer specifically to human beings and exclude corporations).

Similarly, the "dictionary" and "common sense" definition of bigamy is: "the act of marrying someone while legally married to someone else". Apparently, though, the Canadian legislator has chosen to criminalize not only the dictionary definition of a bigamy, which would define a bigamist as only one who marries while still being legally married to someone else, but, as well, as I've just recently discovered, the act of knowingly participating in a bigamous marriage, i.e., marrying someone who is already legally married.

The law redefines/broadens words all the time to suit its purposes, as it's apparently easier to redefine/broaden an existing term than to just invent an entire new one.

In any case, while in ordinary English parlance Mr. Y would not be considered a bigamist, according to Canadian Criminal law he has in fact committed the crime of bigamy.

I'd love to get a comment from the original questioner, as the whole issue has (obviously) become a very interesting one to me. One thing I'm a bit curious about, though, is what you mean when you say your friend is "facing jail time in July". That's got me a bit puzzled. What do you mean by that? Has a trial date been set for July? Has she already been tried and convicted and the sentencing hearing is scheduled for July? Loomis 18:36, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

See the Criminal Code, section 290 and section 291 as well as the definition of "form of marriage" in section 214. Based on the facts set out by the original poster, it seems pretty clear that the woman as well as her "husband" from the Ontario marriage are both guilty of the offence. Would either of them be sentenced to prison for this? Assuming it's a first offence, pretty unlikely. However, there can be implications to having a criminal conviction on your record even if the sentence is a conditional discharge, or whatever. If possible it might be a good idea to borrow money to pay for a decent lawyer. Also click here: Legal Aid Ontario. --Mathew5000 22:28, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Hello this is the original questioner!! thank you all for reading and writing your opinions, we appreciate it.. My freind went to court last week with her useless family lawyer and was going to plead guilty. then the lawyer said he had to remove himself from the record and she would have to plead by herself, the judge gave her until july 7th to get independent legal advise. if she pleads guilty they are willing to give her one year probation, one month house arrest, and comunity service. This keeps her away from the trial where the crown wants2 yrs of jail time. You see she is single with four children 3,4, 12 & 13. So she feels trying to fight this in a trial is just not an option, rolling the dice per say on the future of her and her childrens lives if she is faced with jail. so she is a rock in a hard place, pleading guilty just to avoid the possibility. To comment on some of the things above yes Mr Y knew about the marriage but it just turns into he said she said, there is no proof that he knew...there is no real proof of anything, its really all about what she thought at the time, it all comes down to whether she can convince the judge that she didn t have the mental intent. (good luck on that one) We went to see a criminal lawyer last nite, he said maybe seek out a lawyer that is familiar with international/mexican/divorce/some one who knows alot about these subjects, who maybe could find a loop hole. How about the fact that she was drunk while married bare foot on the beach, or that the ceremony was performed in spanish, or that there was a marriage contract created right then and there on the marriage documents they signed on the beach that day. Marriage contract that they would split what they got together and they would each leave with what they had when they went in. Is that legal too? What about some of the Mexican laws? Is there anything that could invalidate this first marriage? It was only 10 month marriage...Does anyone know where she can obtain any of this information...Any ideas at all???

Considering that nude weddings can be legally valid, I think the fact she was merely barefoot is irrelevant. That said, if the Mexican marriage was invalid, then I imagine that would be a good defence to the bigamy charge. (Although, if the Mexican marriage was actually invalid but your friend believed it to be valid when she remarried in Ontario, then I think she'd be guilty of attempted bigamy under section 24.) I find it surprising that the crown is seeking a sentence of two years imprisonment. Even one month house arrest is a bit surprising. Does your friend have a past criminal record? Actually you might not want to discuss that on a public forum; there aren't many women charged with bigamy in Ontario in any given year, so anything you post here could easily find its way to Crown counsel or anyone else who knows your friend's name. Has your friend obtained a legal aid referral yet? Considering that the crown is seeking imprisonment, your friend definitely should not rely on law students' advice as someone suggested above. One option might be to instruct her lawyer to negotiate with Crown counsel for better terms on a guilty plea, such as a suspended sentence. It's perfectly legitimate to raise her parental responsibilities in negotiating that kind of plea agreement, and in submissions about sentence to the judge. --Mathew5000 03:48, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

God, right you are Loomis, I had misread it. Actually I had intentionally posted a misinterpretation of my own misinterpretation. funny. I thought that his friend was a mrs X who married to the mr Y who later married another mrs Z. So the chewbacca defense just might not work in this case... VdSV9•♫ 10:50, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I only mentioned the idea of law students' advice because legal aid can be quite poor, and it's best to be as well informed as possible. The two years jailtime that the Crown is seeking is indeed abnormally harsh. I'm also assuming that Mr Y's testimony would be the key factor in the Crown's prosecution. In any event, I'd still consider reporting Mr. Y to the authorities and have him go through the hell your friend is going through. Perhaps the threat of reporting him might provide you with a bit of leverage when it comes to him deciding whether to testify or not? I don't know, I'm really in over my head at this point...this is way too far into the intricacies of criminal procedure for my knowledge. Just something you may want to discuss with your lawyer. I should also add the annoying old disclaimer, just to cover my ass (the preceeding legal information should be taken as that of a layman only, and NOT as any form of legal advice or opinion) Best of luck. Loomis 13:36, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Just as an additional question: what kind of idiot would actually prosecute this woman and threaten her with jail time? In the U.S., this would be a quick way for a district attorney to find himself in need of a new job, especially once the publicity started. Are prosecutors not answerable for inane overprosecutions in Canada? - Nunh-huh 19:30, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

largest city

In one of Wikipedia's articles, it says that the largest city in the world by surface area is Kalgoorlie-Boulder, Western Australia. But recent researches I have done show that either the Tokyo Metropolitan Area or New York City's metropolitan area are the largest. Well...which one is it? Oh, by the way, these researches were done on Wikipedia as well so someone is putting false information on here.

A metropolitan area is not a city. Chuck 22:33, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

The city of God ? --DLL 16:29, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

ENBRIBD ----??????????

What is this? A corporation? It has something to do with natural gas processing. An industrial term? Maybe a german word? Many thanks 20:25, 21 June 2006 (UTC) (Hobgoblin)

• You're likely looking foor Enbridge.--Pharos 20:52, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

enbribd rides again

P.S. enbribd is in the great state of Mississippi if that helps any thanks. (Hobgoblin)

Is Juneteenth controversial?

I posted this at Talk:Juneteenth, but I think it might be better placed here, as it has little to do with that article. Anyway: I work for the local school board, and I'm currently in the process of preparing the school teachers' calendar. I added Juneteenth to the holidays listed this year (not all are school holidays, but a lot of them are included). My boss told me to remove it, claiming that Juneteenth is controversial and that many African Americans object to the name "Juneteenth". I have been unable to find anything on the web to support this view. Does anyone have any idea what my boss is on about? I was also forced to remove Chinese New Year and some other miscellaneous non-"standard" holidays. — BrianSmithson 21:00, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

It's not "controversial" in Texas! AnonMoos 02:41, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Weird. If I tried very hard to imagine a reason to be offended by it, I guess I could come up with "it perpetuates an idiolectical name," but the people who'd be offended by that are surely a tiny minority, and since Ralph Waldo Ellison wrote a novel by that name, I can't imagine that those folks would have much cultural standing. "Chinese New Year" is exactly the kind of thing that a primary school teacher should want to know about, as it gives her or him a chance to teach the class about lunar new year's calendars and allows them to do something with their China unit. Odd. Geogre 02:59, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I wonder if there could possibly be controversy about making Juneteenth and official state holiday of Louisiana? (I presume that's where the school is, based on your user page.) But even that seems unlikely given that state's legislators this year enrolled a house resolution (No. 134, "To recognize Wednesday, April 26, 2006, as Imperial St. Landry - Evangeline Day") that incidentally mentions the "Juneteenth Folklife Celebration in Opelousas" as a festival in which particular pride should be taken. And I agree with Geogre, "Chinese New Year" surely would belong on such a school calendar! Crypticfirefly 03:30, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

These were my thoughts exactly (regarding teachers wanting to know about these holidays in order to use them for lesson ideas). The argument against Chinese New Year, Ramadan, and some others was that we simply can't recognize every culture's holidays or it will get out of hand, and I understand that point. However, the Juneteenth thing really perplexed me. Kwanzaa got to stay, despite it being a legitimately controversial holiday (as witnessed by that article's talk page). Unfortunately, my boss is now out of town, and the calendar had to go to press, so there's nothing to be done now. Louisiana is slowly waking up to multiculturalism, but it will take some time yet. At least Mole Day got to stay. — BrianSmithson 18:46, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

nuclear non-proliferation policy

It is obvious that the effort to prevent nuclear proliferations extends into the very mathematics of nuclear decay but is such effort still justified with Iran and North Korea already in possession of sufficient knowledge to produce a bomb or is the establishment afraid that American citizens might with such knowledge be able to build the bomb too? ...IMHO (Talk) 22:31, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Let's be honest and not tell "stupid white lies". We (almost everybody) are simply scared that regimes like the ones in Iran and North Korea, etc produce nuclear weapons. Nobody and nothing can garantue us that those weapons wouldn't be used, or perhaps even sold to other even more warlike regimes. Ok, so they tell us it us only for peacefull purposes, namely nuclear energy. And we have to believe in them because of what? They can't lie, perhaps? Their formidable peaceful past? Their links to terrorist groups (in the case of Iran) or their terrorist actions (in the case of North Korea)? So the US, who by the way isn't their friend and just might be on their target list, is keenly interested and will do almost anything to avoid that they build such nuclear power plants. It isn't fair (they might really want only nuclear energy) but tell me of a single thing that is fair in this world. Nobody wants to risk it or trusts in these guys. Flamarande 22:54, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

"We (almost everybody)"- I don't think you represent the views of almost everybody. I'm not as scared of the nations that COULD have nuclear weapons, as I am of the nations that currently DO have nuclear weapons.

At least those coutries which have the bomb haven't been using them since Hiroshima and Nagasaki, until now. Better the devil you know and all that. Flamarande 13:25, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

He certainly represents my views 100%! What nation that currently has nuclear weapons in the world is anywhere nearly as scary as the prospect of an Iran or a North Korea with nuclear weapons? The leadership of these two misfit states are utterly insane, and their nuclear ambitions MUST be stopped at all costs. Loomis 01:11, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

• The question of whether proliferation can be prevented by means of knowledge control is one which has been debated since before the first atomic bomb was dropped over Hiroshima. Most people agree that restrictions on scientific knowledge alone does not prevent proliferation. More important are controls of exports of bomb-related technologies and materials, and diplomatic control regimes (like the NPT). The U.S. government is not afraid that private American citizens will try and make nuclear weapons -- the creation of nuclear weapons requires a lot more than just theoretical knowledge (much of which is in the public domain by this point), and is not an undertaking that even a relatively small group of private citizens is likely to undertake (or be able to undertake without being noticed). I don't think the U.S. government is legitimately afraid of North Korea or Iran using the bomb, but fears rather that they will attempt to use it as a political tool to gain concessions and diplomatic power (much in the same way the U.S. tried to use the bomb in this way against the USSR before 1949, but they more or less failed in this respect, because Stalin et al recognized that the U.S. was not eager to go to war with the USSR, and that the U.S. only had a few bombs at the time anyway). I don't know how real a threat it is that either of those countries would give a nuclear bomb to terrorists -- it would be worse than just using it yourself, since 1. it would still probably be pretty clear who provided the bomb and so you'd still suffer any military/diplomatic consequences, and 2. it would mean relinquishing control over the bomb itself, which is dangerous both in terms of the plot being discovered or the bomb being used against yourself or misused somehow. If that situation is in the end strategically no different than them using the bomb against the U.S. (assuming they have bombs small enough to fit onto their hypothetical delivery vehicles which could hypothetically reliably reach the United States) then I think it would still fall into the category of "not very likely" (there are easier ways for these countries to make life miserable for Americans and to consolidate their own power than through getting annhilated -- compare again the post-WWII strategy of the USSR, which made use of all sorts of subterfuge rather than direct military conflict with the U.S., to their own benefit). --Fastfission 00:45, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

• An article you might find interesting is the Nth Country Experiment, where Lawrence Livermore lab determined that pretty much anybody with a PhD in physics could come up with reasonably reliable bomb designs based on information in the public domain by the mid-1960s. Of course, having a bomb on paper is a long way from having a usable bomb (or the means of delivering it). --Fastfission 00:45, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

People are always interested in that. Long ago I figured that if there were but ten clones of myself, I could completely eradicate the United States. Its simple, using terrorism tactics as well as wide scale annihilation of infrastructure and genocide, and not letting anybody know who it is so they don't know what is going on. — The Mac Davis] ⌇☢ ญƛ. 02:29, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

You'd trust a clone? ;-) You know the Franklin quote, "Three people can keep a secret if two of them are dead" or something like that. I'd suspect it is probably still the same with clones. --Fastfission 15:08, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I've heard that Pantex actually lost several Davy Crockett (nuclear device)s at one time along with a few other warheads scheduled for disassembly and that no one knows for sure if it was just an accounting error or if those nuks actually fell into the hands of local residents, etc. What about such anomalies in our system (not to mention in other systems around the world) as being responsible for at least one weapon being available for use by someone? ...IMHO (Talk) 01:13, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

There are also 40 lbs. of weapons-grade plutonium "missing" from the accumulated transports over the years. The same question arises: are these multiple small accounting errors, grading and scale errors, or actual losses. It's the getting of the plutonium that is the biggest problem for the bomb maker. In a sense, Oakridge, Tennessee was the key to the US atomic bomb. Geogre 02:55, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

That's Oak Ridge, Tennessee (which manufactured the U-235 for Little Boy). Plutonium was produced at the Hanford Site in Washington State. I have no idea why Oak Ridge is so well known yet Hanford is generally unheard of. Odd the way history works. — Lomn | Talk 05:01, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Oak Ridge is a lot bigger than Hanford, and a lot less remote, which is probably part of it. I find the idea of losing full warheads to be probably pretty unlikely, though bits of plutonium seems plausible. It's easy to mix up one metal versus another. It's hard to get confused about a warhead. --Fastfission 15:08, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

The Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty requires existing nuclear states to pursue plans to reduce and liquidate their stockpiles. As the U.S.A. has infact expanded its nuclear arsenel and restarted research into tactical nuclear weapons and Bunker buster's it would seem to be violating that treaty. Therefore it can't really be used as a legal force to prevent other states from similarly violating it and pursuing their own nuclear programs. If the nuclear states want to prevent others from developing nukes a good start would be adhering to previous agreements and treaties on nuclear weapons. AllanHainey 11:49, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I hate to tell you this, but the following rules apply in maters of international politics: Laws are for the weak, all counties have broken past treaties, and noone trusts noone too much. The UN has no strength to enforce its own resolutions and is dependent of the most powerful countries, especially the US, Russia, China, UK, France. All countries care mostly about their own national interrests and will vote accordingly. Too many poor countries sell their votes for the highest bidder (nobody will tell it out loud though). Others will opose other countries because of all kind of shortsighted reasons. Nations will support other nations because the politicians will gain crucial votes (and cash, essential in paying publicity) this way. Almost everybody sells guns to almost everybody. Everybody is scared ot the Nuclear bomb. Its simply a rotten world, so accept as it is and do not dream of another one "that should be". If you don't like it, then please try to change the system from the inside. Flamarande 13:24, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

AllanHainey is exactly right that the U.S. has not been fulfilling its obligations in good faith under the treaty, but that is not a new thing (it has never really attempted to do that). It is one of the reasons that a lot of analysts thing the NPT isn't worth the paper it is written on, because it is very selectively enforced. I disagree with your approach, Flamarande -- diplomatic treaty regimes, though not perfect, often given a lot of political leverage. Everyone thought the Helsinki human rights accords were useless when the USSR signed them, but over time they played a major role in the country's policies towards their dissidents. But anyway these are political arguments not worth piecing over for the millionth time. :-) Allan, the U.S. hasn't actually expanded its arsenal any -- the research on the bunker busters is "officially" scrapped, and even that was most likely a modification of an existing warhead. The most recent U.S. "new nuke" debate is about the Reliable Replacement Warhead Program, but even that is more an instance of wanting to replace warheads rather than expand the warhead count. Even while saying this, though, I do believe that the U.S. has not been trying to reduce and liquidate its stockpile according to the provisions of the NPT, and I think it still has far more warheads than it needs for a credible second strike. --Fastfission 15:08, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree with you and I suppose some politicians are really changing the system from whitin. Flamarande 18:36, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Here's a little detail that might be worth pondering: Political scientists and military strategists are pretty much in agreement that during the cold war, even if one of the superpowers actually possessed the cold inhumanity necessary to snuff out a few hundred million lives at the press of a button, they were further restrained by the concept of mutual assured destruction or MAD.

In other words, as coldly genocidal as one side may have been, (a characteristic I wouldn't even ascribe to the Soviets, at least after Stalin's death,) the launching of a nuclear strike would be suicidal, as it would trigger an equally devastating nuclear response by the US. Say what you will about the Soviets, they may have been an aggresive, brutal, expansionist threat to the free world, but one thing they were not was suicidal. (And even from the Soviet POV, if that's your cup of tea, the Americans may have been heartless capitalist pigs, but they certainly could not be accused of being suicidal either).

Basically, then, for a REAL nuclear threat to exist, the state possessing such weapons would have to have a leadership governed by two specific traits: 1) genocidal tendencies, as well as 2) an "otherworldly" cause, one worth committing suicide and leaving this world for.

Fortunately, though, Iran is just looking for a cheap way to produce electricity. Loomis 17:06, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

So they tell us, but why should we believe them? Unfortunably these regimes are also not very stable (a bit like the old Soviet Union and the problem of Tchechnia) and crappy politicians like "Bush the believer" and "Blair his faithfull puppy" are scaring everyboby so that the frightend masses don't forget on whom to vote. And the "dude of Iran" which seems (at least to me) to be as faithful and intelligent as "Bush the believer" doesn't help things, with his ravings about the "international zionist conspiracy" and his proclamations that Israel should be transfered into Europe or else...

Notice how the "dude from Iran" is using the same tactics (he is banging on patriotism and the "Americans are going to kill us" besides the "Jews are going eat us alive" crap) for the same results, namely votes. The "dude from Iran" and "Bush the believer" and "Blair his faithfull puppy" are simply the three faces from a threesided "coin" called modern Democracy.

And if the Germans were able to elect Hitler (amid a enourmous economical and political crisis) and the peaceloving Americans made Nagasaki and Hiroshima who are we to tell that no people/country with the Nukes will use them? (I don't believe myself, I used the Hitler argument - I lost :) Flamarande 18:36, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I think you missed my point. I often end my posts with an over-the-top super-sarcastic sentence. Say what you will about Bush and Blair, I happen to disagree with you there, but it's not worth debating, because it's not essential to my point. However I must say that to equate US and UK democracy with that farce of a system they've got in Iran is more than a bit of a stretch. Again though, not relevant to my point and not worth debating.

My point main point is that nukes are only truly dangerous when in the hands of people who would actually dare use them. To use nuclear weapons, as I tried in detail to explain would require a mindset governed by at least two essential factors: 1) A cold, grotesque indifference to the thought of genocide, as well as 2) a committment to ideals so radical that suicide is actually a viable tactic (perhaps because one may believe that one's religion might offer some sort of reward for it in the afterlife).

Say what you will about "Bush the believer" and "Blair his faithful puppy", but neither of them show any trace of these mindsets. Bush may be a deeply religious man, which may to many paint him as a fool...fair enough. Nonetheless, he's been in power for 5½ years now, and despite whatever one can say of the foolishnes of his faith, it clearly does not include any call for any sort of suicidal martyrdom. In fact quite the opposite, as a faithful Christian, Bush would likely consider any sort of suicide to be a rather grave sin. When's the last time you've heard of any Christian suicide bomber?

The "dude in Iran", on the other hand, seems to fit the bill as the most likely person to actually consider using nukes than pretty much any world leader I've ever come across. He clearly displays 1) genocidal tendencies (with all that mad ranting about wiping Isreal off the map), as well as 2) a religious conviction (radical Islam) that actually approves and indeed encourages suicidal martyrdom.

Say Iran finally accomplishes its goal of attaining nuclear weapons capable of reaching Israel. What's to stop that "dude in Iran" from committing "The mother of all suicide bombings" and launch a nuclear strike, prompting Israel to respond in kind with its nukes, and resulting in the complete obliteration of both countries, and the loss of tens of millions of lives? MAD would surely be no deterrent, as "the dude" (referring to him as "the dude" is by no means an insult to you...I think we're just both too lazy to actually go through the trouble of finding his real name (lol)) would surely rise up into paradise and be honoured as the greatest Islamic martyr of all time.

To sum up, genocidal tendencies, the belief in suicidal martyrdom and nuclear weapons have got to be the most dangerous and frightening mix imaginable. And THAT is why there is such a HUGE, FUNDAMENTAL difference between countries like the US, the UK, France, China, Russia, Pakistan, India and Israel possessing nuclear weapons on the one hand, and Iran on the other, and in turn is why the world must prevent Iran from obtaining nuclear weaponry, whatever the cost may be. Loomis 12:53, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

June 22

Can you be more specific? Perhaps you should read the wiki article June 22. (I know, I know! So now I finally get why the words "suitly emphazi" (or whatever) are so hilarious to all of you!) Loomis 12:50, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Have you by any chance been enbribd? --Lambiam^Talk 01:05, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Is that somehow related to pastatution? Loomis 01:12, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

ISTR we answered this question on June 17th - please don't repeat your posts. I also notice that "June 22" is also on the other Reference desk pages, and the rules at the top say not to cross-post. Grutness...wha? 02:32, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, I think that's a rather narrow interpetation of the rules, Grutness. I see "June 22" as an entirely separate question from "June 17", requiring just as much serious consideration. JackofOz 04:05, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

It seems apparent to me that, being a higher number, 22/17 of the attention given "June 17" is required here. — Lomn | Talk 05:02, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

The Da Vinci Code DVD

I was going to ask this on the talk page of The Da Vinci Code, but this seemed more appropriate. Does anyone know when the DVD is going to be released? I can't seem to find that anywhere.--Rayc 02:08, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

You'd have to ask the studio. I doubt that any release date has been made public yet. The film has only just been released in cinemas, after all. DVD release is normally about a year later. --Richardrj 09:20, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Normally it goes: Sneak Peak (the reviewers see it), Major Release, Second-Tier (discount theater) Release, Airline Release/Pay-Per-View, DVD/Rental Release, Television Release. Channels like HBO and Showtime have tried to get movies before they are available for purchase, but I don't think that's ever worked. Also, some movies go in a different order for various reasons. Pulp Fiction was in art houses only for a few weeks, but was too popular. So, it went to major release. First Blood was a flop that went to HBO, where it became so popular that it went to video. Someone recently released a movie in major release and video at the same time (Steven Soderheim???). As for the dates, it is all about the money. When you get the money you need from one step of the release cycle, you move to the next. --Kainaw ^(talk) 16:13, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I think the film that went to theatres and DVD simultaneously was Crash, 2005. The director and producers were afraid that it would never get sufficient distribution and felt that they had a great movie. They did. In that case, the strategy worked, in terms of critical support and word of mouth. I'm not sure how well it did in theatrical release before the Academy Awards, but it had a new release afterward. Geogre 13:00, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I just found it. I was thinking of Bubble. Released in Movies, Cable, and DVD at the same time. --Kainaw ^(talk) 17:03, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

How-to for creating urban vinyl figures?

I can't seem to find any information in regards to how one goes about designing and creating urban vinyl figures (like the work of Michael Lau, and stuff on kidrobot.com). Anybody have any leads? Javguerre 02:28, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

The stuff on kidrobot is just vinyl stuffed dolls. Instead of using cloth to make a doll, use vinyl. Basically, you have to learn to sew first. Then, practice with the material you want to use. --Kainaw ^(talk) 12:41, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Liqueur Reference Sources?

I'm currently trying to build the article on Parfait Amour on this very website, but have had some considerable trouble finding any reference material regarding the non-mixology aspects of the drink (like history, variation, definitions of the drink, etc). I'd like to ask, does anyone know of any useful references regarding this? Preferably either web-available, or conceivably available in Australia. -- Kirby1024 04:29, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Is it a psychedelic rock ??

Hi! i've been wondering for long about the genre of the following song : Song name - Bheegi bheegi Film - Gangster (2006) Singer - James (Nagar baul)

   You can listen to the track here

In case, you are unable to do so , you may try googling for this Bollywood track. Though i know nothing about Genres of song, i think, it might be a Psychedelic Rock .I don't know whether lyric would be a factor!?!

Thanking you in anticipation,--Pupunwiki 05:37, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

---

Reformatted comments to make them easier to read

After a quick Google search, I came across this page which seemed to think the genre was "devotional/religious", but I have no idea if this is the song you're looking for! EvocativeIntrigue _{TALK | EMAIL} 12:34, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

   No that's certainly not a devotional song... & the singer is
different too. Anyhow, thanks for spending your time.
                --Pupunwiki 12:54, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Assistance

I am currently taking part in a quiz and was wondering if you could help me with some questions.

http://img221.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2b7ox.jpg who is this a statue of?

http://img214.imageshack.us/my.php?image=41kt1.jpg What this plant is? Its named after the creature it attracts.

Youre help would be much appreciated as always.

I don't know the answers, but I saw you had another link to a picture of a bridge which you have now taken down. Did you get the answer to that one? I'd like to know where it is - it looked like an awesome bridge. Thanks. --Richardrj 15:47, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Its called the Maulli Bidge over the river Tarn.

So does anyone have an idea on my questions?

I believe the plant is a buddleia aka butterfly bush, or a summer lilac.

The geezer on the plinth is Pushkin. MeltBanana 01:28, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I thought it was Pushkin! Is that the Hermitage behind him? User:Zoe|^(talk) 01:35, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

No the Mikhailovsky Palace or Russian Museum but only a short walk away. MeltBanana 02:16, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Australia belongs to Asia or Oceania?

From my general knowledge, Australia is a Oceanian country. However, Australia is now a member of Asian Football Confederation, but not Oceania Football Confederation.

I am asking if Australia belongs to both Asia and Oceania, if not, why Australia could join the Asian Football Confederation.

Australia is in Oceania, the football team recently left the OFC and joined the AFC because it was fed up with the big fish little pond scenario. Basically, they were fed up being the best of the worst, baceause the OFC doesnt get any world cup places, and Australia has to play-off with losing CONCACAF teams. Philc _T^E_C^I 16:50, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

You triple posted this question! dont do that. Philc _T^E_C^I 17:28, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, consider India. India is a subcontinent. India is in ASIA. India is in south Asia, and it is a subcontinent. Consider Australia. Australia is a continent. This fact might seem obvious, but it bears repeating: AUSTRALIA is a CONTINENT. And again: AUSTRALIA...is a... CONTINENT. Hope this helps. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 17:07, June 22, 2006 (UTC) (talk • contribs) 82.131.189.199

These are nice lyrics. Do you have a melody that goes with it? --Lambiam^Talk 17:59, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

It is pretty easy to look at Asia and Oceania and see the maps. But, the question was about sports. Why are the Kansas City Chiefs in the AFC West when Kansas City is about as close to the middle of the United States as you can get? Sports divisions don't always make sense geographically. --Kainaw ^(talk) 17:31, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

(After edit conflict) That response is a little too abrupt I think. You may wish to moderate your tone in future. Australia is both a country and a continent. The term Oceania is often mistaken to be the name of the continent, but is in fact just a name for the region. Likewise, the name Australasia is used for a slightly different region centred around Australia. One of the reasons for Australia deciding to leave the Oceania Football Confederation to join the Asian Football Confederation is that the OFC does not currently have a guaranteed spot in the World Cup finals. As to why they were alowed to change confederations, that is probably a choice for FIFA. Road Wizard 17:49, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

What a pillock shouting autralia is a continent at him, no-one mentioned continents, only football federations. Philc _T^E_C^I 22:43, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Last time I checked, athletic organizations don't exactly have much authority in political or geographical matters. The Toronto Blue Jays are in the American League, but that doesn't mean that the entire city has been annexed by the US. Similarly, the National Hockey League began in Canada, but NHL teams are now overwhelmingly located in the US. What "nation" is the NHL refering to then? The same can be said of the National Basketball Association. Now with the Toronto Raptors, what "nation" is the NBA referring to? Even the Canadian Football League, some years back included several teams located in US cities, namely Las Vegas, Birmingham, Memphis, Shreveport, San Antonio and Sacramento. Does that mean that these six important US cities were briefly part of Canada? My simple point is that the "league" that a particular sports team decides to join is pretty much irrelevant when it comes to political or geographic matters. Loomis 21:58, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Hope this response meets with your approval, RoadWizard, and that the mild sarcasm was acceptable. Also, I can't help but tell you that I believe you were overly judgemental with regard to one of the responses above. A little levity never hurt anyone. An apology would seem to be in order. Loomis 21:58, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Why me? I think RoadWizard's admonishment was meant for lyricist 82.131.189.199. --Lambiam^Talk 22:22, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Why in the world would I apologise to Lambian when my comments were directed at 82.131.189.199. Lambian's comment was added 10 minutes after mine. I assume that you are trying to be humorous, but I can't quite see the joke. As to why I said the comment by 82.131.189.199 was too abrupt is because very few people I have encountered know that the proper name for the continent on which Australia rests is the "Australian continent" and I don't think you can call the tone of 82.131.189.199's comment mild. Road Wizard 22:21, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

The Football Federation Australia has a good explanation as to why Australia wanted to join the Asian confederation. The Asian Confederation is likely to have accepted Australia because it offered several opportunities for them - getting the AFC Champions League, the Asian Cup, and a bunch of World Cup qualifiers televised in a wealthy country. The only country for whom it'll be a major downside is Saudi Arabia, who won't be making up the numbers at the next World Cup unless Asia gets another place (the Saudis are the worst team in the Cup by some margin). Geographically, the time zones (which are the most important thing for televising the games) work better for Japan, South Korea and China (the big TV markets) from Australia than they do for the countries in the Middle East.

In any case, if you want some examples of geographical anomalies, most of Turkey is geographically in Asia, as is the majority of Russia. But those countries play in the UEFA competitions. --Robert Merkel 00:32, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

As does, of course, Israel, who is geographically completely in Asia, but plays in UEFA because of the Arab boycott -- half of their matches in Asia would be politically charged. At one time, interestingly, Israel were a member of the Oceania Football Confederation, again to avoid being in the same confed as all of the Arab countries. --ByeByeBaby 01:46, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Australia is a Western nation that's geographically part of South-East Asia and also part of Oceania but a contintent in our own right. We're also simultaneously "down under" and "over the top" (about going through to the next round at the 2006 FIFA World Cup). Basically, we don't where the hell we are. But we don't really care, that's what makes us so wonderful. JackofOz 02:24, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Russia is an interresting case. Europe stretches east to the Ural mountains, so the biggest geographical part of Russia is Asian, but most Russians are Europeans. And it's people who play football, not land. :)

Another anomaly is the World series, which is an exclusively US affair, except for one Canadian team.

About politically charged games. Is this taken into consideration when forming groups in the world championship? Since most teams are from Europe and South America there won't be too much of a problem, but some games might still be tricky, especially with the US. Imagine US-Iraq or US-Vietnam. Or matches between former Yugoslavian countries. DirkvdM 07:03, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

krakatoa

what is the nearest town or city near the indonesian volcano krakatoa?

If you go to the article Krakatoa, it has the geographic coordinates for the volcano. The coordinates are hyperlinked; click on them, and it'll take you to a page where you can view the coordinates at a number of map sites. Choose one of those (I used MapQuest) and zoom out until you can see the areas around it. Just eyeballing it, it looks like Cinangka is closest. Chuck 21:20, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Painting

http://i5.tinypic.com/15clj4k.jpg

My final Quiz Question that i`m stuck on... no-one even has a clue. It apparently depicts the arrival of a famous figuer into a European City. Help is much appreciated.

Just from the appearance, it looks Italian. The problem with that is that the people look French. The flag is red, white, and blue - but top to bottom like the Netherlands' flag. The person arriving is apparently dead. My first guess is that it is a Pope, but it could be any high religious figure. It is certainly Catholic if it is old due to the "Vive Jesus" on the banner on the right. You point out that it is the arrival of a famous figure. The first thing that comes to mind is Saint Nicholas. His remains were returned to Italy after his death and he was often depicted as having a pointy hat and a red robe. Perhaps that will help. Maybe it will lead you off in the complete wrong direction. --Kainaw ^(talk) 23:52, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

The larger vertical flag seems to be red, blue and yellow, and these colours also feature on the soldiers' caps. Could be set in Romania. JackofOz 00:02, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Brussels + Christ, And did those feet in ancient times wander round Belgium? MeltBanana 01:51, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

So that would be red, black and yellow, hung side-ways. They haven't managed to build Jerusalem yet, though, afaik. Would give too much trouble anyway, given the quibbling over the other Jerusalem. DirkvdM 07:11, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Movies about the Free French Forces

Recently I have watched a couple of French films set during the Vichy regime/German occupation: Lacombe, Lucien and Monsieur Klein. Are there any films relating to the Free French Forces and/or Charles de Gaulle in London? I don't mean documentaries. For example, are there any feature films that depict any of the following:

• Destruction of the French Fleet at Mers-el-Kebir
• Battle of Dakar
• Appeal of June 18 (1940-06-18)
• The Chequers Accord of 1940-08-07
• Normandie-Niemen squadron
• Battle of Bir Hakeim
• De Gaulle arriving in Algeria (1943-05-30)
• Comité français de la Libération nationale (1943-06-03)

--Mathew5000 22:11, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

• Well, there's a Franco-Russian film entitled Normandie - Niémen; there's a French TV movie entitled Mers El-Kebir. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 22:31, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I was hoping for films available on DVD in North America. Considering that France has one of the largest filmmaking industries of any country in the world, I would think they would have made some big-budget films about the French Free Forces, and also about Charles de Gaulle and the government in exile during the War. --Mathew5000 03:13, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

trivia question

The US gave birth to him but what state claims him as their own?

I think you'll have to be a bit more specific on that one; it's far too general, as it could technically apply to any ex-pat American. Ziggurat 22:31, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

George Washington / Washington--Melburnian 07:25, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

June 23

The name "Hickey"

Hi folks. I just did a quick search on Wikipedia on my family name, "Hickey". What I didn't see kind of surprised me. My name is Robert Hickey, which is not important. What is important is the fact that I have been married to now Brigadier Allison Hickey for the last 21 years. Ok, congrats, but that isn't important. What is important is that Allison is a graduate of the first class of women from the Air Force Academy Class of 1980 (maiden name Hilsman). I know, because I was there, I am class of '78. Now, the interesting fact is that she is the first Female Graduate of the Air Force Academy to actually pin on General Officer. Notice, I didn't say she was the first one to be promoted to General Officer, but she is the first one to be promoted and actually pin it on. Her pin on date was November of 2004. Just thought you all might want to know that, in your "Famous Hickey" Wikipedia reference area. Enjoy. Col (Ret) Robert A. Hickey, class of '78

That is probably sufficient for entering into the article. You can do it yourself, you know. If she has gone on to have a truly notable career (standing out above and beyond other officers in the USAF), then she very well could need an article on her. If she's mainly of interest to the wider world for her accomplishment as the first GO, then add her name regularly to the list of famous Hickeys. If she should have an article on her then put two square brackets before and after her name when you add it. Geogre 03:51, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Identify this clothing accessory

I need help identifying two garment accessories. I see them so often in old comedy films or cartoons but I don't know what they are. What do you call the flaps sticking out at the front and at the back of this guy's neck:

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/9141/shirtfrock4vv.jpg

(The image is a vidcap of Disney's Peter Pan.) --Perfecto 03:27, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

It's a dickey. A kind of faux shirtfront usually worn with a tux.--Anchoress 03:45, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

From 'hickey' to 'dickey'. I have to ask ... what would a 'lickey' be then? :) DirkvdM 07:16, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

hmm...tricky... Grutness...wha? 09:33, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Ask mikey. VdSV9•♫ 10:52, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

You're not taking the mickey, are you? DirkvdM 17:42, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

We have an article on it at Dickie; didn't we already have this question? Sticky... СПУТНИК^{CCC P} 12:35, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Legal question

If someone posts/trolls on an internet forum, and continues to do so after the forum bans his IP address, is that poster in violation of any US law? For someone with limited legal knowledge it is difficult to judge whether or not a legal threat (Stop or you will go to jail, or stop or we will file a civil suit) is legitimate or just an intimidation tactic. I certainly don't want to violate any law, but if my actions are protected under the first amendment, as I believe they are, I don't want to be intidated out of doing something that is legal. Thanks! Mayor Westfall 12:59, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Just because something is legal does not mean it is necessarily "right."

I don't care about what your subjective opinion on morality, nor did I ask about it. That's why we have laws, and that is what I am asking about. -Mayor WF

I see how you got banned. DirkvdM 17:49, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

If you are deliberately attempting to circumvent security measures put up to prevent you from accessing another computer, that can in fact violate the law. However in the case of an internet forum it seems unlikely that such a thing would ever really go to court, and is most likely just an attempt an intimidation. The right to post things on someone else's computer (which is what posting to a website is, in fact) is not protected by the First Amendment anymore than you have the right to write on someone's private chalkboard. --Fastfission 16:28, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

First amendment to what in which country? Anyway, it's an interresting question. If your ip address gets banned it's not strictly you who got banned, is it? And speaking of countries, have they figured out how to deal with the internet yet? It's not bound to any country and can therefore not fall under any country's law, can it? I know this was a big issue a few years back, but I haven't heard of any 'solutions' yet. DirkvdM 17:49, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I am not sure if it has been mentioned here already, but this question has been double posted. You may wish to read the related entry at Wikipedia:Reference desk/Miscellaneous#Legal question before trying to answer it here. Road Wizard 18:08, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Can someone direct me to a law

There is a new law that bush signed very recently that deals with trolling (or anonomous trolling). Where can I find more information about this law. Does Wiki have an article on it? Thanks Mayor Westfall 13:01, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Trolling can mean various things. I doubt whether there is a law against any of them, but please elaborate.--Shantavira 14:36, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I posted on a forum, that claims not to have a [No Member-bashing Policy]--thus members are free to bash each other. A moderator bashed me, I bashed back. I got banned. I made a new account and called out his hypocrocy. I got IP Banned. I used proxy servers to bypass the ban and continued calling him out for being a hypocrite. Then he sent me an ominous legally-sounding email. I cant tell if it's just intimidation or if it is legitimate. I dont think Ive violated any laws...but legal matters are rather complex and I dont have full knowledge of every law...Mayor Westfall 17:52, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Are you sure it isn't an anti-phishing law? Contrary to what most people believe, Congressional laws are VERY easy to find. Go to thomas.loc.gov. In the "Search Bill Text" box, type "phishing" and click on SEARCH. The big trick is remembering that Congress makes laws, not the President. --Kainaw ^(talk) 14:44, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

This may be an answer to both the above questions. There is, I believe, a US law which makes it illegal for an anonymous person to publish things n the internet "with intent to annoy, abuse, threaten, or harass any person". According to a (generally very unreliable) source this was signed by the President in January 2006. DJ Clayworth 14:55, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

That must be buried in some other law. All laws signed by Bush from Dec 2005 to present are on http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/L?d109:./list/bd/d109pl.lst:151[1-236](Public_Laws)[[o]]|TOM:/bss/d109query.html (Wiki doesn't like the format of the link, so you have to copy/paste it). --Kainaw ^(talk) 15:15, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, that's the one "with intent to annoy..etc" That law seems vauge. how can I tell if it has ever been used and if I am in violation of it? Mayor Westfall 16:17, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

The law you're talking about is this one, specifically this section. It is simply an updating of an old law which prohibited anonymous telephone harassment, and was part of a law regarding violence against women. The actual law itself does not contain the word "annoy"—this was widely misreported. The "annoy" part is in the older law. See this page for some interesting discussion. At worst it means that if you harass someone anonymously, it is legally the same as harassing them under your own name, as I understand it. --Fastfission 16:44, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Ill-remembered Science-Fiction Short Story

I am being driven slowly mad by a vague memory of a sci-fi short story I read many years ago. It would ha ve been published in one of the monthly sci-fi magazines, possibly Isaac Asimov's Sci-Fi Magazine.

The general plot was of a race of aliens aiming to take over the world, using mind control either by radio or I think through music records. The main thing I remember about the story is that one of the central characters spoke only in quotes from Bruce Springsteen songs.

Does anyone remember this, have a citation, or have I made it up the depths of my fevered imagination? --Worm 13:02, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Is this what you're thinking of? --Mathew5000 18:25, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Definately not. ;) It was a published story in a science fiction periodical. --Worm 18:28, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

here is another ill-remembered SF (short) story: A spaceship pilot finds himself on a planet of intelligent plants. They have razon-sharp leaves and an intoxicating smell; the pilot ends up being cut into ribbons and digested by the plants and is enjoying himself immensely in the process. I know it sounds like a stupid plot, but if I remember it right the story had a really haunting quality. Ring any bells? dab (ᛏ) 18:33, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

QUSETION ABOUT EMO!!!!!11

SO IS LIKE FALL OUT BOY THE FIRST EMO BAND EVERZ?!?!?!?!?! I <3 THOS GUYZZ THE SINGER IS SO SEXXY

K THKZ FOR HELPIN ME OUT

BYE GUYZ LOLZ!!!!!!111

65.26.86.77 14:18, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Gosh, B1FF is awfully active. Geogre 14:40, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I think that Emo was the first Emo Band everz. --Kainaw ^(talk) 14:49, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Sorry that wasn't biff -- 65.26.86.77 16:11, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

"Emo" pretty much doesn't mean anything, that's the problem. I've heard Galaxie 500 offered as first, and Mission of Burma, and just about anyone who didn't repeat what went before. Since no one knows what makes an "emo" band in the first place, no one can say who the first one was. I wouldn't worry about the label. Geogre 16:37, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

10th Legion Equestris

Hi, I am asking if any of you "Roman military history buffs" can check out when and where the X Legio - 10th Legion Equestris was founded. Don't use Wikipedia please, I have read the article Legio X Gemina but I am simply not convinced. I have also searched in some sites of the internet but I couldn't found something solid. It seems that the current view holds that this legion was founded in 58 BC. However I have found that this is not supported by Julius Caesar's book the "Commentarii de Bello Gallico - the Gallic Wars" (I have a translation by Penguin classics).

The story is the following: Cutting a deal with Pompey and Crassus (the First Triumvirate) Caesar recieves the governship of 3 provinces: Galia cisalpina, Galia Transalpina and Illyria. He also has 4 legions: VII, VIII, IX, and the X (I have confirmed this in the book "In the name of Rome" by Adrian Goldsworthy). The Helvetii are planning a migration. Caesar recruits another two legions: XI and XII (also confirmed by Goldsworthy). I have checked his book and he clearly describes these new legions as "new" and the other four ones as "veteran". So if the X was allready a veteran by this time (58 BC - the same year it is supposed to been have founded !) it is higly unlikely that it was founded recently. This is also hinted by Caesar's ambition: he needs tough veteran legions to conquer something, so what is going to demand from his partners? Reliable veteran legions. I also have a book called "Caesar's Legion" by Stephen Dando-Colins. He wrote that the 10th was founded in 61 BC by Caesar as he begins a campaign against the Lusitanii. However this book is highly disputed, as Dando seems to have made several major mistakes and some critics also say that he invented some stuff. He just might be right on this ocasion, but I want to confirm this. He doesn't really explain how he reaches this date, its seems to be reasonable, but who knows?

I have allready debated this in Talk:Roman Republic. Please take a look if you want.

So what do I really want? I want to find out is why 58 BC is considered the birth date and if there any alternative views. I am quite inclined to present the mater in a fair manner in the article Legio X Gemina. Thanks Flamarande 17:29, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

History of Russian Architect Buildings

Hi , My name is Sydney and I was wondering what the colored cone-shaped designs on the Russian buildings were called ?

History of Russian Architect Buildings http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_architecture heres a picture of what I'm reffering to . St. Basil's Cathedral .

Sincerely , Sydney Thanks for any help .

• Those are onion domes. --Fastfission 19:47, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
• Somewhat similar domes can be found on the towers of Catholic churches in southern Germany and Austria, where they are called Zwiebeltürme ("onion towers"). For an example, see Frauendorf (Bad Staffelstein). --Lambiam^Talk 21:23, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Deadwood Season 2 Region 2 DVD Question

I've recently purchased the complete season 2 of Deadwood on region 2 DVD. While I am able to watch the episodes without any problems, I cannot seem to be able to access the additional episode commentaries. I have bought a legitmate copy and the box packaging does advertise the audio commentaries as being available.

I've tried searching for help on the internet without any success. I did find a review (see the link below) which contains a picture of the title menu with Episodes, Langauge & Features as the options. My version only displays Episodes and Subtitles in it's menu. http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/read.php?ID=21812

I've tried playing it on my PS2 and using InterWin DVD Player & DVD X Player on my laptop but without any joy. They only show one available audio channel, and don't display any other menu options.

Given the popularity of the show, I would hope that there are plenty of fellow wikipedians who have purchased the same box set, and are possibly suffering from the same problem.

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Regards, Gallaghp 19:42, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Things to look out for when establishing a town or village

Hi all. In order to create a believeble world for the characters in a story I'm writing, I would be extremely grateful if anyone could provide me with certain things that surveyors look out for when deciding on the best place to estalish a town or village. Answers covering a wide range of climates and geography would be most helpful. Thank you in advance!

-- Emmanuel Q.

Well, I don't know for sure, but I imagine the biggest architectual/engineering issues are things probably divide into "long term gradual problems" and "short term immediate problems". In the former category you'd have things like erosion (in cases where you have bodies of water or high winds), in long-term stability issues (can the ground support much weight? how does it handle when it is rained upon?), and other things related to the long-term occupation of a given site. In the other category you'd probably have questions relating to the possibility of large natural disasters -- flooding is a major concern (since it is not always rare), but moving upwards into the question of volcanoes, typhoons, rockslides, earthquakes, tornadoes, etc. depending on where you happen to be. --Fastfission 19:56, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

You don't say what level of development or technology your characters have, but surely there are some very basic considerations like water -- a stream, a river, a lake, whatever. Other natural resources to provide for food, fuel, building materials as necessary. Also perhaps a vantage point in order to see approaching enemies or predators from many/all directions. Natural shelter that can be used until more permanent structures can be built.

And of course, high speed wireless internet access  ;-) --LarryMac 20:21, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Chief Parker L.A.P.D.

Where did chief parker go to law school? The swine at the lapd historical divison know but they will not tell me unless I PAY! them $ for research fees! My mom and my rabbi will not allow this. I suspect its UCLA but being only functionaly omnipotent I aint sure. (Book em Danno!-Just the facts ma'm.) 24.0.47.184 21:21, 23 June 2006 (UTC)(Hobgoblin)