Talk:Steve Irwin

STOP! Are you sure your post belongs here?
This Talk page is for discussion of changes to the Steve Irwin article. Off-topic discussions, including tributes, are not appropriate for Wikipedia and will be REMOVED. If you are looking for a place to put tributes, try the SMH's or The Australian's tribute page.

Archives
Archive 1 - discussions prior to death confirmation Archive 2 - 09:49 (UTC) to 16:00 (UTC) 4th September Archive 3

Enviromentalist versus Conservationist

Wouldnt Steve have been a conservationist rather than an environmentalist? Other than some people calling him a environmentalist, it seems his views are more in tune with conservationism, also wasnt he a supportor of John Howard? I know this is pedantics, but I think when doing a biography it is important to show all aspects of his public life in the proper light.

Can one not be an environmentalist and also support conservative politicians? I would presume so. Professor Ninja 17:14, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Crocodile Page!

I don't know if you guys know about the edit to the crocodile page sometime yesterday? It said something about Steve Irwin being dead and 72 virgin crocodiles being sacrificed. It was vandalism of course, but creepy. Weird that today we find out he's died too.

N-th known fatal stingray attack in Australia?

BBC says second. The Age, citing a stingray expert, says third. This one mentions an earlier attack than the one in/near Melbourne, but does not say if it's in Australia. — LazyEditor (talk) 10:40, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

News reports tonight said only 17 known in the world and 2 in Australia. However they were ambiguous if it was 2 including Steve's or 2 before his.

The disctinction to be made here is fatal attack. In all likelihood there are far more non-fatal stingray attacks than fatal ones. There may be some confusion over the numbers because of this. Professor Ninja 14:33, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

An expert interviewd on ABC (Channel 2) during the late news explained that he could find around 30 known stingray deaths in the world to date. Trust the best source, I'd suggest US media know little facts concerning this. Nick carson 14:39, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Some news reports are saying there is only one other?Cvene64 15:02, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, just a mistake when I created the title. I've also included the possibility of other numbers (as presented below by Djcastel). Now I have no idea which number is correct, though I still mostly believe 3 (including Irwin) because the piece in The Age mentions specifically that the info comes from a "stingray expert". If more numbers keep popping up, I guess we can just settle for "less than five". — LazyEditor (talk) 16:38, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

The Daily Telegraph reports that there have been three previous stingray attack fatalities in Australia (making this the fourth), and actually enumerates them (1945, 1969, 1990). I think this source should trump the others because it provides detail. Djcastel 16:15, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Searching on Google I find mention in 'The Age' [5] of a death in 1988 and a death in 1945 (this last one is found in most sources), plus a woman in 1938. Reuters says "An Aboriginal boy died several years ago, while the previous record death was in Melbourne in 1945." [6] which looks like the same deaths. The Sydney Morning Herald records a death in 1938, as well as 1945. So 3 seems right, but how can we be sure? Unless we attempt our own count. Skittle 16:57, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

"According to the Medical Journal of Australia, in 1938, an adult women died after a stab wound to the heart by a stingray. " Spero News Looks like 3 to me. Can't find mention of the 1969 death. Skittle 17:03, 4 September 2006 (UTC) (To be clear, 3 without Irwin. He looks like the 4th) Skittle 17:05, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Could someone please fix the first 3-4 sentences under the death section of Steve's life? Someone made an edit that says he got raped in the chest, and was "jacking-off" Queenslands Great Barrier Reef. It would be greatly appreciated if you would fix this. So many sick-o's are taking opportunity to try and spew their evil. It is very sickening and I hope that noone else has to see it ...

It might be worthwhile to elaborate on the term "stingray" to include the type of ray that killed him. The ray was a bull ray as identified in one of the press releases [7] included in the article. The wikipedia article bull ray doesn't exist at time of me writing, but bull ray does. As the article is still semi protected I cannot add this fact, if anyone else feels it might be worthwhile information, please edit it. Pissedpat 17:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Tributes

This talk page isn't the place to leave tributes and other such what. If you are looking for that, see here:ABC tribute page to Steve Irwin.--Hamedog_Talk|^@ 13:15, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

I've read Help:Talk page and I see nothing that says talk pages must not contain tributes. --Tim1988 ^talk 13:22, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Did you stop at "inevitably"? "Inevitably, there will arise situations in which collaborators on an article can benefit mutually from discussing the article' - thus we have talk pages, specifically for such discussion. Info for talk pages: There are two types of talk pages - the first one is standard talk pages which are used to discuss an article, while user talk pages are used to communicate with other users or leave them messages." — ceejayoz ^talk 13:38, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

A tribute is discussion of the "Steve Irwin" article. --Tim1988 ^talk 16:40, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

See above in the {{talkheader}}. It says "This is the talk page for discussing changes to the Steve Irwin article". A tribute isn't a change to the article. -- Longhair 13:40, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

That isn't policy. There is no policy that states a talk page can't include tributes. --Tim1988 ^talk 16:40, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

I actually created a seperate tribute page, but that was deleted on the provisions that wikipedia does not host tributes. I actually used the same argument you have used. Any way, it clusters up the page.--Hamedog_Talk|^@ 13:33, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

You have to sign up to post on the ABC tribute page. Suggest using the easier option of the SMH's or The Australian's Rafy 13:57, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

MSN Tributes Request

Please note the heartful tributes to steve going over MSN messenger. I know people think it's not worthy but alot of people have told me how sad they are and they have added the turtle to their msn names out of huge and great respect for the legendary crocodile hunter. I've attached an image for you to see how many in my contact list are doing it including myself. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Steve_msn_tributes.jpg

I know this is irrelevant but i have had many tributes distributed throughout msn reach me including the turtle one and many other texts. Its not much but its everyones own little sign of respect.

Bindi

"He had been filming a segment for his daughter Bindi's upcoming television series." His daughter is going to have her own television series? If so, we should have an article for her. -anon

that's too bad he can't finish it...I think it would be cool if she had her own show. --Mitternacht90 16:29, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

If the page is semi-protected...

Then why don't you guys get rid of the damned "I SAY YOU HE DEEADDDDDD" heading near the bottom of the article.

God, now I know why so many people hate Wikipedia.

68.53.121.170 15:56, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

We semi-protected the article to facilitate the removal of vandalism like that. If you refresh your page, you should find that that heading has gone. Before we semi-protected it, we were getting up to 7 or 8 edits to the article per minute, which made it extremely difficult to remove vandalism, because our edits conflicted with those who submitted their edits mere seconds before us. - Mark 16:03, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

semi protecting for so long is denying many people the opportunity to enhance the article. please unlock asap.

Enhance it with what? Pacific Coast Highway ^{{blah • RIP Crocodile Hunter • WP:NYCS}} 16:49, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

find space for this pic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Spine2ks2.jpg

exactly but I don't think when people view the page they should focus much on the death how how he died or what killed him. People know what happened, let's focus more on his life, his career, his achievements, and his contributions to the world. ouch!

Clearly distasteful for this page. We would not put an upclose photo of the gun that shot JFK on his page. Jasonid 16:20, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Not distasteful. Everyone knows what a gun looks like. With stingray related deaths being so rare, I think it really adds to the article. Just my opinion of course

I also agree that this is not a distasteful picture. The article already discusses the length and serrated form of the ray barb in question, why not show a graphic? Professor Ninja 17:17, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

File:Spine2ks2.jpg

Example of a serrated stingray barb of the type that killed Steve Irwin

I offer this as an example of the image. I do think it would be helpful to graphically include it since it is described, but because of the rarity of the type of death, it is hard to visualize. Re: the JFK/gun analogy, most people can visualize a gunshot wound or the approximate type of rifle used to assassinate JFK, therefore the image would be nothing but clutter. In this case it is informative and encyclopaedic, akin to perhaps showing the rifle that killed JFK to an isolated cargo cult in an attempt to explain his assassination to them. The picture in question, with a mockup caption. (whoops, pasted it in the wrong place and forgot to sign)Professor Ninja 17:23, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

If the man had survived, I'm sure he'd be the first to show everyone exactly what it was / did to him. --82.8.47.238 17:26, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Just to let you know, when I saw the barb and read the exact description I decided, ok, I felt sorry for him now, that one HAD to hurt. I was thinking he just got stung by a little thing and died of poison or something. 65.190.42.103 18:21, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

It would be a fitting tribute to allow people to learn exactly how he was killed Metakraid 18:13, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Archiving

Under normal circumatnces talk pages would not have discussions that are only an hour old archived. But under the current circumstances the volume of edits istarting to expand this page beyond a resaonable size. Most of the earlier discussions appear to be completed.

I intend archive the first 25 discussions except tributes(#15) and weasel words(#22) are there any objections. Remember if something significant gets archived it can be returned to this page. Gnangarra 16:10, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

also keep (#9)number of sting ray attacks Gnangarra

Should not be unprotected.

At least not today. As soon as this page is unprotected the vandals will start flowing in again faster than ever. Let's have some respect for this man and not let vandals ruin this entry. Jasonid 16:19, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

I completely agree. How the hell can we do our jobs when those dumb vandals are messing it up? dposse 16:22, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

I think JYolkowski was wrong in removing the protection of the article. I check and he isn't an Admin? On the search engines it shows wikipedia as the 2nd or 3rd and it is wrong to have people especially children come upon a vandalised page. It doesn't make sense to leave it unproted. Please protect the page.LogicUser 17:18, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

James is an administrator. If he wasn't he wouldn't be able to protect/unprotect pages. You can check the admin list here: WP:LA. Sarah Ewart (Talk) 17:27, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

I am shocked! JYolkowski is an Admin. Do they have sensitivity training for Admins? Does he like busy work created by vandal? This doesn't make for positive PR. I am in agreement with the more "Senior" Admin Zzyzx11....bring back the protection PLEASE! LogicUser 17:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Please add InterWiki

I am a new-registered user, so I am unable to edit this page. Could you please add be:Стыў Ірвін? Bacian 16:34, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Done. Thanks for the link. Canderson7 ^(talk) 16:36, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

POV?

With all due respect to the dead subject, I am a little uncomfortable with the statement "Irwin's personality and outrageous antics in the series made him an international celebrity". While he certainly was a great guy, that doesn't really sound very neutral to me, sounds more like a point of view/opinion. Thoughts?--Badharlick 10:21, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't know, "outrageous antics" doesn't sound very positive to me! pfctdayelise (translate?) 12:07, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I think that's neutral - those are the things that made him an international celebrity, which I think everyone will agree he was. - Davokills

He was outrageous, for sure. As I'm sure many people commented while watching him, "What sane person would do that?"

Badharlick may have a point here, about the word if not the sentiment. "Outrageous" actually means immoderate, shocking, grossly cruel, immoral or offensive. Perhaps "eccentric" is more suited? Devious Viper 13:47, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

But that's not the common usage of the word, which Wikipedia says we should use. Something tells me you'd be in favour of retaining the title "Red Army Faction" over a change to "Red Army Fraction" (which is the proper translation), so at the same time you should expect that the connotations of "outrageous" far outweigh its denotations. Professor Ninja 14:26, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

That's not quite what I mean - what I'm saying is, it would seem to me to be hard to verify that Steve Irwin's personality made him famous along with his "antics". Even though it may be common knowledge, if there's no source and someone questions it's validity, it will have to be removed. --Badharlick 16:45, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Get ready...

The admins in their wisdom unprotected the page again. Get ready for a new wave of vandalism. dposse 16:59, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Pages linked to from the main page should not be protected, or if they are for just a little bit of time. Wikipedia is a Wiki, so we want to make sure that our visitors are able to experience Wikipedia to its fullest See m:Protected pages considered harmful. JYolkowski // talk 17:01, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

This is a special case. Actually look at the history of this page. I think we can make an exception. dposse 17:03, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

That's quite skimpy compared with the amounts of vandalism that a lot of current events articles have got in the past. JYolkowski // talk 17:06, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Quite skimpy? Are you serious? Look at it a hour ago. It was being edited at least twice a minute. Oh, and this page was vandalised again not three minutes after you unprotected it. dposse 17:08, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Take a look back at the history of Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI about a year and a half ago. And we managed to keep those unprotected the majority of the time they were linked to from the main page. There's probably lots of other good examples of such pages as well. JYolkowski // talk 17:12, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

It's averaging around two edits a minute unprotected, which is far more manageable than the 5 edits a minute earlier in the day. I'm thus inclined to keep it unprotected.--cj | talk 17:15, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

and again dposse 17:20, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Here comes the carp. Get your popups ready. Pacific Coast Highway ^{{blah • RIP Crocodile Hunter • WP:NYCS}} 17:23, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Take a look at this picture that i took one minute ago. It's starting all over again! Use some common sense here and protect the page for at least the rest of the day. dposse 17:29, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Very manageable, indeed. Pacific Coast Highway ^{{blah • RIP Crocodile Hunter • WP:NYCS}} 17:41, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Full protection is in the extreme.

Semi Protection is more than fine for this article. Full Protection, although it will make sure no more pictures of dicks get on the article, is a bit overkill. dposse

Oh, and someone remove those penis pictures, what the hell is the connection with the article?

No offence but are you an idiot? Does it really need explaining? It's just some fool pissing about.

Those edits were to {{Infobox Celebrity}}, not to the article. —Whomp t/c 17:40, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Semi-protected, and the penis vandal has been blocked... The Land 17:40, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

The pictures of cocks and no connection, other than idiots who think it's funny. If this page was semi protected in the first place, that would never have happened. dposse 17:41, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

thank you!! dposse 17:41, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

thx vry mch!

What is wrong with people? Do they think they won't get caught and blocked when there are about 100 Wikipedians with their eyes trained on this article every second?

Thank you very much for blocking that idiot. Soxrock 17:43, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Keep semi-protected --Gregorof 17:45, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Please will someone remove the pornography from this page NOW?

This is most inappropriate; I realise that it is vandalism but someone with editor rights needs to remove it. It is very likely that kids will be finding this page, as they try and read about their hero!

It has been. Please clear out your cache. dposse 17:46, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

If you need to fully clear the page, press CTRL than F5. As that should make a full page refresh to check for a new version. --BC 18:07, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Actually, pressing CTRL and the letter R works better. dposse 18:08, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

is this true?

the article says "On 5 September 2006 WA Police arrested Mark Weaver in relation to Steve Irwin's death and he has since been charged with wilful murder."

just wondering if that's really true because i haven't heard that anywhere else.

68.167.67.112 17:44, 4 September 2006 (UTC)Prameet

no, it's not. dposse 17:45, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

article doesn't say that. The Land

It's not true it was an act of vandalism by some joker who thought it was funny I took it out twice. Seems the moron has nothing better to do with his time. Sad, really.

Agreed, pure false and was removed. --BC 18:00, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

If i was an admin, i would permanantely block the saddo who put it there. Something as serious as this should not be joked about and it is in no way funny at all. Woe be to the person who badmouths Steve Irwin. He was a great man. Sadly missed. 49Untouchable 18:43, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism

I noticed some idiot had slipped in something about a guy called "Mark Weaver" having been charged on "September 5th" (impossible of course) of "wilful murder". Someone cleaned it up before I did, but I think people should be vigilant of such atrocious behaviour on this page over the coming weeks. The last thing wikipedia needs, and more importantly, the last thing the Irwin family need, is juvenile idiots making light of such a tragic event.

Be glad your not looking at a website atricious enough I won't mention it. They're literally poking fun at Irwin for dying. I'm assuming the idiots are coming from there. Soxrock

Hi there, the page has been locked once again. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Irwin --BC 17:55, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

I wish to point something out to those folks earlier on Sept 3 US and again now that Australia is not in OUR timezone, so sometimes, their datelines will look like they are from the future. Please check timezones. UnseemlyWeasel 18:01, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Is there some type of banner we could put up announcing that vandals will be blocked from editing this article? Also, we should automatically ban ips that vandalise, regardless of magnitude, since having their edits removed doesn't seem to satisfy them.

As far as i know, the admins have the page semi-locked, thus meaning that only a few users are still able to edit the site. I also am not sure if the admins here are banning the vandal IP's either. --BC 18:02, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Since the article is now semi-protected IPs and new users simply can't edit it so can't vandalise it. However, generally, users (including IP addresses) that produce frequent vandalism are blocked from editing. The Land 18:04, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

The article is currently semi-protected, meaning only established Wikipeda editors can alter it. A number of administrators are also keeping an eye on it, so we should have similar problems for a little while. It apparently takes a few minuts for old versions (eg vandalised versions) of the page to be deleted from all the Wikipedia servers, so you amy see an out-of-date page for several minutes yet. Regards, The Land 17:56, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Why were certain reference/citations changed?

For example, in relation to his body's location in Cairns, why change this from The Australian to Spero News, when the Australian already said this? Somebody went citation-crazy in asking for cites (and I obliged in some respects and others did as well) the point that whoever put so many references down ended up with Reference 22 cited a-e. Now, however, the article is pointlessly lengthened by excising certain of these citations, which just contributes to bloat. God, when there's a perfectly valid citation, could we please not expand the article from the single extra character used to subcite into an entirely new line? Professor Ninja 18:04, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

'

Removed POV, and duplication of material already found in article, etc

From the header (or intro) I removed what is inarguably POV, weasel word, and duplication of material already found in article. Examples follow:

This paragraph:

Through his vast exploits, carefree personality and seemingly endless knowledge of nature, Irwin created a distinct persona that for many was not only the face of the international conservationalist movement, but the last of the traditional Austrailian in the vein of national hero Paul Hogan. He also owned and operated the Australia Zoo at Beerwah in Queensland with friend William Rollo and his wife. He died after the barb of a stingray punctured his chest while he was filming a documentary segment for his daughter's show. [8].

Contains POV e.g. "vast exploits", etc weasel words (e.g.: Irwin created a distinct persona that for many was not only the face of the international conservationalist movement) and is a "tribute" which fairly gushes subjective partiality toward the subject (not that he wasn't a good guy, but judgement of character isn't the goal here, is it?), as the banner at the top of the page notes, is no "encyclopedic."

His death is also covered under a separate section.

This statement:

He was credited with re-energizing the so called "wildlife documentary" for television audiences who had long grown bored with the genre's typically stoic and staid manner.

is clearly POV, and the assertion of re-energizing the "wildlife documentary" is unsourced besides being untenable. The Discovery was thriving long before Steven became famous.

This line clearly duplicates material already in the article and, thus, is redundant.

He also owned and operated the Australia Zoo at Beerwah in Queensland and fronted several conservation efforts.

PainMan 18:10, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Citation error

There is a citation format error in the Death section. The first citation after the camera man analysis is ended with a <ref instead of a </ref>. Can someone please take care of it, it is the reason the rest of the section isn't displayed. --84.184.99.16 18:11, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

I already fixed it. Professor Ninja 18:16, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Added photo of barb

I do not consider this photo any more offensive than other photos on wikipedia, including certain photos (Such as the rather infamous photo of the young vietnamese girl post napalm strike, or the equally infamous photo of the Nazi executing a jew with a rifle, or of the south vietnamese officer killing a VC agent). Seriously, if you can show those on wikipedia, you can show a simple barb, and the reason for it is that most people will be completely unfamiliar with this particular ray, or any ray for that matter, and that this particular cause of death is peculiar, unfamiliar, and rare. Professor Ninja 18:15, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

I found it helpful; Iwas thinking that he died of poison from a small stinger, not that a huge stinger impaled his heart-- that's very different indeed. 65.190.42.103 18:23, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Personally, I don't find that particular picture helpful at all. It would be better to show the barb in relation to where it is on the fish. Perhaps a picture of a stingray's full tail showing the barb would be more appropriate and more helpful to show what happened to Steve. As it stands, it only shows the point, which anyone can visualize easliy, given it's called a barb.

The image appears to be a copyright infringement. I reported it at WP:PUI. RexNL 18:25, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

I couldn't visualize it. (finally remembered to login)Kuronue 18:26, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

We have no idea which species of stingray actually stung him so how can we know which picture to post? But that's beside the point. It's just macabre. Should the article on Rasputin show a picture of the dagger used to amputate his genitalia during his murder? No.

Therefore, I've removed the image.

A MUCH better idea for a picture--if there must be one--is to find out what exact species attacked him and post a picture of that. I would have less problem with that; tho' I still thinks it's weird.

PainMan 18:31, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm trying to track down that particular Ray, PainMan. Hopefully I'll find an educational photo, blatantly free of use (contacting the museum is just too much of a hassle on labour day), so that we can be relieved of RexNL's pleasant demeanor. Professor Ninja 18:36, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

The barb is perfect. It's not like he died of some unknown reason, there is proof of what pierced him. Soxrock

The word "barb", to me, anyways (and I'm assuming most of the population out there), causes me to visualize a long pointy object. Here is what Dictionary.com says of the word:

barb1  /bɑrb/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[bahrb] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun

1. a point or pointed part projecting backward from a main point, as of a fishhook or arrowhead.

2. an obviously or openly unpleasant or carping remark.

3. Botany, Zoology. a hooked or sharp bristle.

4. Ornithology. one of the processes attached to the rachis of a feather.

5. one of a breed of domestic pigeons, similar to the carriers or homers, having a short, broad bill.

6. any of numerous, small, Old World cyprinid fishes of the genera Barbus and Puntius, often kept in aquariums.

7. Usually, barbs. Veterinary Pathology. a small protuberance under the tongue in horses and cattle, esp. when inflamed and swollen.

8. Also, barbe. a linen covering for the throat and breast, formerly worn by women mourners and now only by some nuns.

9. Obsolete. a beard. –verb (used with object)

10. to furnish with a barb or barbs.

[Origin: 1300–50; ME barbe < MF ≪ L barba beard or beardlike projection]

—Synonyms 1. spur, spike, prong, barbule; snag, prickle, spicule.

Pretty descriptive I say. At any rate the pic is back up yet again.

References

The references list is getting ridiculously long. Could people stop linking to every news article about his death on the Internet and stick to wire reports or Australian sources only? And learn to use <ref> and {{cite news}} or {{cite web}}. I'm starting to get sick of cleaning up after lazy linkers. --  Netsnipe  ►  18:36, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Good idea

Excellent, Netsnipe. References, esp re: his death, should preferably be Australian media (accessible to anyone via web) since the wire service reports will doubtlessly be based upon them.

PainMan 18:37, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism, edit "conflicts", this is a bloody mess

It's becoming damned hard to clean up this mess. I've run into so many attempts at vandalism and people obviously keeping the edit page open to block any further edits, that it approaches the farcical.

Out of perhaps fifty attempts, I succeeded only a handful of times.

Someone needs to step in. Stuff like, "We love you Steve! You will be missed" are clearly and completely inappropriate. Somebody even tried to post "Crikey it got me!"!

Let's have some class!

PainMan 18:43, 4 September 2006 (UTC)