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Last month, the creator moved the article [[Runwala]] to "[[Rohilla Rajputs]]" and "[[Rohila Tank Kshatriya]]", and I undid those moves as none of the reliable sources mention these terms (see [[Talk:Runwala#Recent edits]]). So, now the user has created this new article. I tagged several citations in the article for failing [[WP:V]] standards, but the creator alleges that I may be biased towards this particular 'ethnic group'. So, a third-party opinion would be welcome. [[User:Utcursch|utcursch]] | [[User talk:Utcursch|talk]] 14:21, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
Last month, the creator moved the article [[Runwala]] to "[[Rohilla Rajputs]]" and "[[Rohila Tank Kshatriya]]", and I undid those moves as none of the reliable sources mention these terms (see [[Talk:Runwala#Recent edits]]). So, now the user has created this new article. I tagged several citations in the article for failing [[WP:V]] standards, but the creator alleges that I may be biased towards this particular 'ethnic group'. So, a third-party opinion would be welcome. [[User:Utcursch|utcursch]] | [[User talk:Utcursch|talk]] 14:21, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

:Thanks a lot, it is really helpful if somebody help us get away the dilemma and the conundrum. The reviewer has missed to mention that the original page [[Rohilla Rajputs]] which was active from August 10, 2009 and it was merged/moved by the reviewer to Runwala on July 17, 2016. There is nothing bad to let another reviewer come in and review neutrally. However, the subject seems matter of cherry picking which I strongly feel should not be there. Information tagged with citation needed, cn, waiting for better citations, is better than deleting the whole page or moving it. Only then, people will be able to participate to write in, as they already were doing till this page was merged. Deleting it is like removing the seed before it becomes a tree. It should be done only in case of vandalism.
* "They [Runwalas] were actually the Rohilas ..", How can "Rajput Rohilla" article, a parent category be moved into a subcategory? It could be the other way.
* If Runwala are rajputs who are hindus only, does the reviewer want to say, they were not Hindu before (.. were actually the Rohilas), Were they converted?
* parents of Padmini who were the Rohilas, "Padmini" was hindu, whole world knows this but my dear friend doubts her parent's religion.
I urge, make the page eclectic. It becomes more important and responsible task since we have another ethnic group of different religion but coincidentally same namesake, highly famous in history. I've also asked to the former's website http://www.rohillataank.com to help the article and waiting for some volunteer.<span style="text-shadow:#BCC6CC 0.2em 0.2em 0.5em"><b style="color:#0000FF">hey_pal</b> (Friend.hey)<b><sup><small>([[User talk:Friend.hey#top|talk]])</small></sup></b></span> 17:00, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

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Ram Rahim or Singh?

Hi all, could use some guidance re: these edits, where an editor changed all of Gurmeet Ram Rahim Singh's Singhs to Ram Rahims. Any thoughts? Would this be appropriate? Indian name rules are not my speciality. Thanks, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 14:38, 6 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Titodutta: Thanks. I wasn't sure if there were unconventional exceptions here like there are for patronyms. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 06:33, 9 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Invitation

A relevant discussion for converting {{Infobox writer}} into a wrapper of this template has been initiated at Template talk:Infobox writer#convert_to_wrapper. Your comments will be appreciated. Capankajsmilyo (talk) 04:52, 7 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Suraiya

This is a huge article and is a mix of a hagiography and a fan site. It needs serious attention but after reading through a fair bit I'm not even sure how to approach it, I've left a similar note on the talk page where I hope anyone interested can discuss and cull/clean up. cheers. —SpacemanSpiff 11:51, 7 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Potential deletion of portals

See Wikipedia:Village_pump (proposals)#RfC: Ending the system of portals. - Sitush (talk) 16:35, 8 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Open threads at WT:NCIN

There are a couple of open threads at WT:NCIN that require resolution, one added by me today and another that has had no response since last year. - Sitush (talk) 06:09, 11 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Asaram Bapu

Asaram Bapu looks to be in need of clean up by people who actually know what they're doing, if anyone is prepared to take a look. - Sitush (talk) 06:12, 11 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • THere's a huge walled garden around this. I closed a merge discussion a couple of days back where two duplicate articles were created under Hindi and English titles and a sock infestation was hijacking the merge discussion. I haven't looked elsewhere (I think I blocked a couple of socks) but I'm guessing there's more than I came across, both in terms of articles and socks. —SpacemanSpiff 07:17, 11 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Tag & Assess

Hello, we have Tag & Assess portal. We last worked on it 2014. The Assessment bar, most probably, was not working at that time. I am not fully sure about the current status of it, or if any other alternative (not AWB) that makes life easier. Ideas? Once again there are too many unassessed India articles? Ideas and suggestions please. Pinging User:AshLin, who was really active in the drive. --Titodutta (talk) 07:06, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Titodutta: - interesting that you bring it up just as I cleaned up some of the assessments in past few days. I plan to continue this work as and when time permits. As of now, it has been directly from links on the Summary statistics of the project. VasuVR (talk, contribs) 07:47, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oh great, thanks for working on it. Are you doing it manually? Could you confirm or check that the assessment bar is not working (I tried installing, did not work). I saw some 11k unassessed articles, perhaps we can collaboratively work on this? --Titodutta (talk) 07:51, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the past month I have not used automation. It is manual check and assessment. However, when it comes to marking the importance of stubs/ start level articles during the tag and assess drives, I prefer to use AWB. I setup the list in AWB in such a way that after each article the Talk page is loaded - that way after I review the article and skip it, I mark assessment on talk page. Even un-assessed articles can be processed using this method.
I have not tried the Assessment Bar in the past. VasuVR (talk, contribs) 04:56, 13 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Looking for resources to help NPR

I run across a lot of India and SE Asia articles while reviewing new page creations. Many are very short just naming a village or place without context of even what country it may be in. Are there any resources to look up such places? I know of India 2011 census data, Indian village directory and *AreaProfiler - India.

Another issue I have is assessing Indian biographies. It is my understanding that many of the Indian newspapers do 'articles for hire'. Can anyone here give an informal assessment of which of the major papers may be particularly bad about this or if there is a way to distinguish purchased publicity from genuine journalism in those papers? I have also noticed that many articles, even on easily notable individuals are written using extremely grandiose wording and flamboyant style. (I see this to an extent in articles from the entire region. ) I find this makes me immediately assume lack of notability since that type of writing nearly always is an attempt to puff up a non-notable person when encountered in Western biographies. I think this may be a cultural difference. Are there differences in what is considered appropriate or is my perception a combination of a biased sample set and a bit of unconscious racism on my part? Does anyone here have any insights which would help me recalibrate my expectations so I am less likely to misjudge articles?

Finally, can anyone recommend some good resources for to get a grounding in the politics of caste and ethnicity. I know enough to understand it is a minefield and I have some of the basics from Wikipedia articles but I would vastly prefer some solid works by cultural anthropologists and historians.

This is a part of the world with which I am completely unfamiliar with but we have many editors writing lots of articles about the region. Any help you can provide to help me orient myself and get an idea of where the pitfalls lay is much appreciated. Thank you. Jbh Talk 15:50, 13 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Arguably "grandiose wording and flamboyant style" are the natural mode in Indian English, especially in journalism, and many of our editors are used to this and believe it is the way to go here. English is a second language for many editors. Typically they don't mind the language being adjusted, but of course this can be a good deal of work. Generally style is less use in judging probable notability than it might be in articles on, say, American subjects. Johnbod (talk) 16:05, 13 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
It is challenging. Many Indian publications do publish profiles of people, companies, and projects for hire. More respected publications do this less or not at all, although I think every publication gets accusations. India has relatively better small regional publications than perhaps anywhere else in the world, just because there are so many regions with a distinct cultural identity and because there is a great love and culture of journalism everyone in India as compared to many other places. It would be biased and unfair to exclude smaller publications but at the same time new media is putting great tension on all journalism and causing chaos. I would advise anyone reviewing India-based articles to be polite, expect doubt, and to try to think of this as a challenge which will need multiple points to address it. I have wondered if Wikipedia community reviews on the quality of publications would be useful. From a data science perspective, getting perspectives on how much publications are cited could be an automated analysis, and that also could identify when a series of small publications all come from the same publisher. I do not have good ideas for addressing the challenge in the present. Blue Rasberry (talk) 16:16, 13 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
census2011.co.in is usually right, but why use a mirror that may not map correctly when you can get the right thing directly from the source at www.censusindia.gov.in. Any village article can be cleaned up with this as you'd get the demographics (pop, literacy, sex ratio, age etc) and geographical info (block, district etc) and a reasonable stub can be made from that source. See Janhitaila for a recent use of the source where the ones Jbh mentioned up above were all included at first. As for newspapers, The Hindu Group and The Indian Express Group would have the least amount of pay-news typically. Except for a couple of large national newspapers, most others have the fluff and pay-news and regurgitated PR in the city supplements. See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sheo Sagar Ojha for an example of PR reprints.— Preceding unsigned comment added by SpacemanSpiff (talk • contribs)
JBH, as mentioned above, the official gov census page is best. You'll find the search function on the navbar under 'Population Finder 2011'. Mirrors can be hit-and-miss. In regards to prose style in new Indian articles, i wouldn't take inconsistency with MOS:W2W as a face-value sign of bias; it's just the enthusiastic/poetic way that a lot of people tend to write in India. You'll sometimes even find it in The Hindu and Times of India (TOI) etc Cesdeva (talk) 20:56, 13 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you all for the insights, particularly about the differences in acceptable grandiosity in mainstream writing. It is also good to know that the regional papers are generally good as well as knowing to look out for use of articles in city supplements. Also, I did not notice census2011 is a mirror I will update my resource links to point to censusindia. Jbh Talk 23:37, 13 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

#1Lib1Ref Again!

Greetings,

#1Lib1Ref is happening again in May!

It is an annual campaign where librarians add references to improve Wikipedia, is coming back again this year, running from May 15th to June 5th, 2018. It is being run for the second time from this year because we heard from you a desire to run it again out of excitement. Librarians, community members, and affiliates are encouraged to make 1Lib1Ref [their own]. So whether we call this 1Lib1Ref May, 1Lib1Ref for the Southern Hemisphere, or 1Lib1Ref Strikes Back, the point is the excitement is building again, and we'd like you to be a part of it.

If you would like host a session at a local library, here are some materials for you:

"Imagine a World where Every Librarian Added One More Reference to Wikipedia" Wikipedia is a first stop for researchers. Let's make it better! Your goal today is to add one reference to Wikipedia! Any citation to a reliable source is a benefit to Wikipedia readers worldwide.

For any assistance, kindly contact wikipedialibrary@wikimedia.org.

Regards,
Krishna Chaitanya Velaga [Outreach Coordinator | The Wikipedia Library]
on behalf of Felix Nartey [Global Coordinator | The Wikipedia Library]

11:53, 14 April 2018 (UTC)

Indiscriminate page moves

Moyna is a village. There are two other pages - Moyna (community development block) and Moyna (Vidhan Sabha constituency). Master Of Ninja moved the Moyna page to Moyna (village) and made the base Moyna page a disambiguation page. I moved the disambiguation page to one with a suffix and wanted to use the base Moyna page for the village. I could not move it back and so moved it to Moyna, Purba Medinipur. Thereafter, ToThAc, moved the Moyna disambiguation page to the base page. I have requested for Moyna, Purba Medinipur to be moved to the base page, and ToThAc is opposing it. Now, Moyna is a small place and it does not matter whether it is a base page or one with a suffix, but the principle is important. ToThAc is brash about it, see this. I am only worried that this could lead to the movement of a large number of other pages indiscriminately. I request wider participation in the decision making on the talk page of the article. - Chandan Guha (talk) 01:50, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Who is who in this carving?

In the carving shown here, from the Ivory carved tusk depicting Buddha life stories, one of the figures represents Venerable Moggallana (Maudgalyayana)? I need to know this for a DYK review, which also includes the image. Thanks!--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 16:16, 16 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

These image files are carefully referenced to a scholarly article on the tusk - why not trust the file name: "Sariputra and Maudgalyayana become disciples of Buddha". Buddha on the left. Johnbod (talk) 20:58, 16 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, and which one is Moggallana?--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 22:45, 16 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Sariputta seems to have been the first of the two to join the Buddha, so is presumably shown introducing the kneeling Maudgalyayana, if the description is correct. Who the standing figure behind is I wouldn't know. Otherwise the two main disciples might be shown standing, introducing some other figure. Johnbod (talk) 23:40, 16 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
That makes sense--good thinking. Thanks for the advice!--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 16:29, 17 April 2018 (UTC) Ping, ping.[reply]
There is one problem though. If the ordained Sariputta is introducing Moggallana, why is neither of them shaved as a monk?--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 16:33, 17 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Biographical article being repeatedly deleted by a user

Hi all - I created a biographical article on Sonali Kulkarni and observed that the content was deleted by a user with the name User:Terminattor with the note that she doesn't want her name to be on Wikipedia pages. I reached out to Tito Dutta and he was able to help restore the content. We see that the content has been deleted again. The article met the notability criteria and the information available online is significant. How should I handle the situation? Any thoughts or guidance? --Parul Thakur (talk) 12:13, 17 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Now at AFD. ~ Winged BladesGodric 12:44, 17 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Rohila (Hindu)

Can anyone look at Rohila (Hindu), which is supposedly a Hindu ethnic group distinct from the Muslim Rohillas? The article has several citations, but most of them either do not mention the term "Rohila", are unreliable sources (e.g. a a Google search page), or both (e.g. James Tod).

The only citation in the article that actually mentions the term "Rohila" is a chapter on the Runwala caste in People of India. This source mentions the term "Rohila" twice, but does not assert that they are/were a Hindu ethnic group:

  • "They [Runwalas] were actually the Rohilas, the well known warrior group and in the course of time have come to be known as Runwala"
  • "The story of their origin runs thus: [...] But the parents of Padmini who were the Rohilas refused to give their daughter..."

Last month, the creator moved the article Runwala to "Rohilla Rajputs" and "Rohila Tank Kshatriya", and I undid those moves as none of the reliable sources mention these terms (see Talk:Runwala#Recent edits). So, now the user has created this new article. I tagged several citations in the article for failing WP:V standards, but the creator alleges that I may be biased towards this particular 'ethnic group'. So, a third-party opinion would be welcome. utcursch | talk 14:21, 17 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks a lot, it is really helpful if somebody help us get away the dilemma and the conundrum. The reviewer has missed to mention that the original page Rohilla Rajputs which was active from August 10, 2009 and it was merged/moved by the reviewer to Runwala on July 17, 2016. There is nothing bad to let another reviewer come in and review neutrally. However, the subject seems matter of cherry picking which I strongly feel should not be there. Information tagged with citation needed, cn, waiting for better citations, is better than deleting the whole page or moving it. Only then, people will be able to participate to write in, as they already were doing till this page was merged. Deleting it is like removing the seed before it becomes a tree. It should be done only in case of vandalism.
  • "They [Runwalas] were actually the Rohilas ..", How can "Rajput Rohilla" article, a parent category be moved into a subcategory? It could be the other way.
  • If Runwala are rajputs who are hindus only, does the reviewer want to say, they were not Hindu before (.. were actually the Rohilas), Were they converted?
  • parents of Padmini who were the Rohilas, "Padmini" was hindu, whole world knows this but my dear friend doubts her parent's religion.

I urge, make the page eclectic. It becomes more important and responsible task since we have another ethnic group of different religion but coincidentally same namesake, highly famous in history. I've also asked to the former's website http://www.rohillataank.com to help the article and waiting for some volunteer.hey_pal (Friend.hey)(talk) 17:00, 17 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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