Talk:BetterSleep

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Health and fitness

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Боки (talk · contribs) has been paid by Brisk Web Services on behalf of BetterSleep. Special:Diff/1290289668

Contested deletion

I understand the concern, but I am working to rewrite this article in line with Wikipedia's neutral point of view. The topic has received some independent media coverage that may demonstrate notability. I will improve the tone and remove any promotional language immediately.Боки 💬 📝 21:21, 13 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I have now revised the BetterSleep article to address the concerns raised in the deletion tag. The updated version follows Wikipedia's guidelines by adopting a neutral point of view, removing promotional language, and incorporating multiple independent, reliable sources. I’ve also included appropriate internal links, an infobox, references, categories, and relevant portals.

I believe the current version meets Wikipedia’s standards for notability and verifiability, and I welcome any further suggestions for improvement. Боки 💬 📝 21:28, 13 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Moved to article space

This article is definitely written in a promotional manner to some extent, but looking at [1] and [2], which are full, independent articles on the subject, as well as the smaller examples of coverage, it does seem to meet the general notability guideline. In any case, the topic deserves an AfD discussion at least. Pinging @GoldRomean @Moritoriko in case they want to nominate it. Mrfoogles (talk) 17:37, 16 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

In regards to AfD, I’ll leave it to Moritoriko to nom if they wish. I've done a brief copyedit for tone. GoldRomean (talk) 17:45, 16 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Inflated download numbers

Got reverted by Mrfoogles when removing the, obviously inflated, download numbers. They claim 50m+ in 2020, yet have "only" 10m+ on the Play store in 2025. Iphone has 28% marketshare. This math ain't mathing. Plus its obviously an unreliable source which repeats what the company told them, see WP:DISPUTED and WP:RS. So we either get an ironclad source, which is impossible without access to their dashboards, or we have to remove this obvious lie. Polygnotus (talk) 20:56, 25 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

UNDUE

With stuff like this, the point is that, because no reliable sources have mentioned it, inclusion in Wikipedia is WP:UNDUE. It is just a PR story, it is not encyclopedic content worth mentioning. Wikipedia summarizes reliable sources, we don't care about PR fluff. Polygnotus (talk) 23:53, 25 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I get what you're trying to say, but that's an incorrect interpretation of WP:UNDUE. It says "Giving due weight and avoiding giving undue weight means articles should not give minority views or aspects as much of or as detailed a description as more widely held views or widely supported aspects.". WP:UNDUE is about views -- there's no such thing as a "minority fact". Using non-independent sources for minor details in articles is a well-established practice -- the requirement is that the article be mostly based on independent sources, not entirely. See the (essay) WP:INDEPENDENT, which says "Non-independent sources should never be used to support claims of notability, but can with caution be used to fill in noncontroversial details."

Content-wise, sure, the article PR fluff, but the fact that BetterSleep partnered with a hotel is a true fact and the most interesting thing currently present in the article, if that's not saying a lot. Writing a history of the app, and what distinguishes it from others, which we are, it's worth mentioning. Mrfoogles (talk) 05:28, 26 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Nah, its more complicated; there is a mismatch between how people use UNDUE and how the policy has been (re)written. It should probably be fixed but I am too lazy (and improving policy is very difficult), so I hope someone else will notice and fix it. People often use it as "not worth mentioning" (undue attention) instead of the dictionary definition of "making a viewpoint seem more prominent that it deserves to be".

Anyway, point is, if no reliable sources mention a fact then we cannot include it, because Wikipedia summarizes reliable sources. PR Newswire is a source of trash, so please use something else, e.g. https://www.hotelmanagement.net/tech/sleep-inn-hotels-offer-free-access-to-relaxation-app Probably not a very reliable source but anything is better than PR Newswire. I bet you can easily find 100 lies in less than 100 minutes if you read PR Newswire.

Polygnotus (talk) 05:46, 26 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

BetterSleep Logo.png

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 01:36, 26 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]