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Coups vs the reforms

[edit]

So I think the article's current state is a bit confusing. The timeline of this thing goes like this: Right-wing faction does a purge of the leftists on March 1968, leftists do a counter-coup on 14 May 1968, and then later in 1969 the reforms happen. I propose that we make separate articles for the coups, and this one is going to be about the reforms. What do yall think? @TheTraveller60 @Grumpylawnchair @Paprikaiser @Panam2014 @Algirr 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 07:24, 5 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Is there enough material to fill two separate articles? TheTraveller60 (talk) 08:08, 5 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah we have enough sources to make a new small-mid sized article that covers the topics well 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 08:28, 5 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Panam2014 (talk) 09:41, 5 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Abo Yemen , If we have enough sources for something like this, then I'm all for it. Algirr (talk) 15:27, 5 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
South Yemen - A Marxist Republic in Arabia (pages 61-67) is a very good account of the events that we can use here 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 16:20, 5 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately, for some unknown reason it doesn't work on my laptop, so I can't use it now. I'll try to open it on my other device later. Algirr (talk) 16:29, 5 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
As I have noticed, some sources that have already been cited here also have great potential for expanding the information, which for some reason has not been used before. I think I can at least "re-check" them, while you will send here a new sources Algirr (talk) 16:40, 5 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Abo Yemen, and I think that if the section on reforms grows too much with information, then it can be moved to a separate article (as it was with Revolutionary Corrective Initiative) Algirr (talk) 16:45, 5 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
For now I am expanding information about socialist reforms. I hope someone of you will expand information about the events of the coup itself (because it is, actually, very short to be good) Algirr (talk) 18:38, 5 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Abo Yemen , I would also like to warn everyone that I personally am a little confused about the dates. It feels like in 1968-1969 there was a whole series of coups, counter-coups, purges, etc. For example, here(https://uca.edu/politicalscience/home/research-projects/dadm-project/middle-eastnorth-africapersian-gulf-region/south-yemen-1967-1990/) it says that President Shaabi was overthrown on JUNE 22, 1969. But the infobox shows a completely different date: May 14, 1968. Perhaps this is just an error in the infobox? Algirr (talk) 20:29, 5 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah that's why I started this discussion since there are lots of events that happened and didn't get any coverage on wiki 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 06:17, 6 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Qahtan was placed under house arrest till 1980 when he died. May 14 is probably when the leftists started fighting back and it ended on 22 June, as far as what I am understanding from the sources that I've read. I'm still reading and hopefully ill find more accurate dates 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 10:09, 6 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
maybe in this case we need to write "May 14, 1968-June 22, 1969"? Algirr (talk) 15:33, 6 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Would make sense. But then we will have to make an article on the leftist purge of march 1968 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 15:34, 6 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I think we'll have to do it anyway. Algirr (talk) 15:38, 6 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Draft:National Front's leftist purge, we'll work on it later 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 15:56, 6 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Fine) Algirr (talk) 15:58, 6 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe add the inscription in brackets "(South Yemen)" for a more understandable designation, as was done with the Corrective Movement (Syria)? Otherwise it is very unlikely that this is the only "cleansing of the left" and the only "National Front" Algirr (talk) 16:00, 6 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
i meant purge of the leftists, sorry Algirr (talk) 16:00, 6 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
As far as I am aware, this is going to be the only article about a leftist purge in a National Front on Wikipedia, so there is no need to disambiguate it 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 16:01, 6 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Whatever you want, but if I were you I would do it anyway. Algirr (talk) 16:10, 6 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Ok so according to page 140 of Ali Nasir's book, there was the "20 March 1968 Movement" and "The events of 14 May and 27 July 1968 which led to the Corrective move" 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 17:56, 6 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Well, it is too little information to say about it for now Algirr (talk) 23:33, 6 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The book does not provide details about these "movements/events"? Algirr (talk) 23:34, 6 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
It does, but in way too much detail and im trying to summarize the important stuff first 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 04:15, 7 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, so we will wait until you finish Algirr (talk) 15:30, 7 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

A bit random perhaps, but I came across two sources that could be useful for this period. I can't access the full text, but they might be available through the Wikipedia Library. Unfortunately I can't use that yet either, since my account is still too new... the six-month requirement feels a bit much. Anyway, just sharing them here in case they turn out to be helpful. Paprikaiser talk•contribs 19:50, 10 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

both sources are not accessible thru the Wikipedia library lol 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 05:10, 11 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
=( Well, perhaps someone with the right credentials will be able to take a look and let us know! Paprikaiser (talk) 21:00, 11 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Abo Yemen I think the "Reforms" section should have a subheading (general "government reforms") and sub-subheadings (more specific explanations of all of them, such as "Electrification", "Social reforms", etc.), so please stop changing this. Algirr (talk) 03:13, 17 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
"Electrification" and "Social reforms" are not government reforms, so they shouldn't be part of the "government reforms" section. I've changed the name of the "Aftermath" section to "Reforms" as it is more accurate 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 06:19, 17 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
So this happened by miracle and not by coordinated government action? Algirr (talk) 19:41, 17 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
"Government reforms" is not the same thing as "Reforms done by the government", and either way, reforms are almost always done by governments, as the case is here, and it will be redundant for us to mention it 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 18:13, 18 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Well, that's what I meant when I argued that electrification and the like should be subdivisions of government reforms. Algirr (talk) 18:15, 18 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I think that you've missed the point. The Government reforms section is about reforms done to the government, and not reforms made by the government. Fixing the country's Electrical grid is not a government reform 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 18:17, 18 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe I confused them Algirr (talk) 18:21, 18 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
in general, okay, I understand you. If you want it this way, let it be that way, otherwise you never know, maybe admins send me to the block for another month) Algirr (talk) 18:23, 18 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Abo Yemen hi, how was your reading going? Algirr (talk) 18:04, 18 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I'm drafting something up on word. I'll be publishing it tomorrow, inshallah 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 18:11, 18 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
OK, inshallah Algirr (talk) 18:13, 18 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Just started reading "Arabia without Sultans" by Fred Halliday and that book has the best details on this coup. If you want, @Algirr, you can send me and email so that I can send you a pdf version of the book 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 16:44, 26 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Moreover, on the russian article about al-Shaabi is also a lot of information which is not in our article. I will try past it here too. Algirr (talk) 16:48, 26 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
feel free to translate it 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 16:50, 26 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Algirr The preview is supposed to be cropped, as it is the decision of the programmers of the Wikimedia software thing. A full image would be more useful for readers. Please self-revert (Also, although it isn't forced upon you and wont get you blocked if you failed to comply with it, you failed to follow WP:BRD. Please avoid edit warring if you don't want to get blocked again) 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 16:56, 26 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
You're kidding me Algirr (talk) 16:57, 26 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 16:59, 26 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
well, it is not actually question Algirr (talk) 17:07, 26 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Abo Yemen I think I am done with translation from Russian article. It is maybe not a lot, but at least more than before Algirr (talk) 20:55, 26 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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