Talk:Popular Forces

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Merge proposal

I propose merging Yasser Abu Shabab into Abu Shabab group. Abu Shabab is not notable outside of his leadership of the Abu Shabab group. There is substantial overlap between the two articles, making Yasser Abu Shabab WP:REDUNDANT EvansHallBear (talk) 17:42, 6 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. Everything in Shabab's article could be included in this one. Rainsage (talk) 18:17, 6 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Longhornsg (talk) 19:18, 6 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

~~Support per nom.~~ Evaporation123 (talk) 22:23, 6 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Yasser Abu shabab had military activities prior to the formation of the popular forces in May 2025 leading a group of highwaymen that frequently targeted aid

this is from November 24https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/11/18/gaza-looting-aid-convoys-israel-famine/

Hamas attempted to assassinate Yasser back in November, when the Hamas security forces launched an ambush that killed several highwaymen back in November, in this article Yasser is mentioned by name

https://www.dropsitenews.com/p/gaza-security-forces-ambush-gang The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 06:50, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose, per above. 2018rebel 06:51, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per above Davisonio (talk) 16:50, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Oppose He has a long history and is apparently tied with ISIS. He is also the leader of an important modern group spearheading an important part in one of the most important modern wars. Sorry for so much "importants" but it's true. Yesyesmrcool (talk) 03:35, 9 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per above. Skitash (talk) 14:18, 9 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per above. Two different topics, even if there is inherent overlap ☞ Rim ^{< Talk | Edits >} 22:02, 10 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per above. GothicGolem29 (talk) 15:38, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Article title

Abu Shabab group does not seem to be the most common name for the organization. Most reliable sources use "Abu Shabab's group," while discussing Yasser Abu Shabab or refer to it as the "Popular Forces" or "Anti-Terror Service." The article should be moved to have a more recognizable and commonly used name or if one does not exist, the official name. 2018rebel 22:02, 6 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I support a move to Anti-Terror Service, which is the most common name in sources. Evaporation123 (talk) 22:21, 6 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The "Popular Forces" seems to be the name most commonly used by the organization itself. More recent articles from the New York Times, Jerusalem Post, Al Jazeera, and the Times of Israel seem to have shifted to the name as well. 2018rebel 04:27, 7 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

If that is indeed the case I am fully behind a move. Evaporation123 (talk) 04:41, 7 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

No evidence for IS links

Liberman has made several untrue claims in the past and this is no different. There is no evidence for IS links to this group. 108.29.64.228 (talk) 02:47, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

agree RossoSPC (talk) 03:07, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Support de-emphasization of alleged IS links. The primary references are a Pan-Arab newspaper and the Israeli opposition. They should be removed from the infobox. It is sufficient to reference the accusations in the article itself. 2018rebel 03:34, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Lieberman's statement is ambiguous, but there is another Israeli government source alleging "ties" to IS.

According to Ynet/Yedioth Ahronoth (as reported by The i Paper, a reliable British source), an unnamed Israeli security official says the Popular Force has "close ties to Isis-affiliates across the border in Egypt". (https://inews.co.uk/news/world/the-isis-linked-bandit-gang-working-with-israel-in-gaza-3735530?srsltid=AfmBOop94byf_cb9kUHHAiveuyOWehBuuopeybq1suhXRh_CJwfb_xbV)

Now "close ties" is an ambiguous phrase and there is no elaboration about whether these are specifically military or ideological connections.

I think it's best to wait a little bit to see if anything definitive comes up. As of now, consider that the most noteworthy things about the Popular Forces are: 1) The Israeli support and anti-Hamas stance 2) The looting 3) The alleged IS affiliation. I will remove the "Islamic Statism" ideology from the infobox though, which is the most appropriate "de-emphasization" for now. Evaporation123 (talk) 04:21, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

other israeli politicians confirms Isis links https://x.com/yairlapid/status/1930633614846288106?t=luL5GsqOOA7nQb34OxfHHw&s=19 Kakashi7640sharinghan (talk) 08:21, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

His words do not mean that they are affiliated with ISIS. Brahim bmd (talk) 23:42, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

As is well documented by references in the article, these terrorists are linked to ISIS, and just like ISIS, they support Israel. Pretending that they don't support Israel and aren't ISIS is absurd. URabinowitz (talk) 23:05, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

If ISIS support Israel, as you claim, who staged the massacre in Beersheba and terror on the streets of Hadera in 2022? 2A00:20:C013:A720:F5EE:BD30:5230:AD9B (talk) 06:54, 9 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

That's not really an argument. Who did 911? People formerly supported by the US. Hamas itself was supported by Israel in the 80s to weaken PLO. It's called blowback (intelligence). FunkMonk (talk) 23:30, 10 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Alliegances to Israel

Does Israel say that the "clans" are controlled by them? They just said they arm them. The IDF doesn't have an allegiance to the US just because they get guns from them Hind242 (talk) 12:43, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

And if they are allegedly operating under israel, putting israel in the allies section too is unnecessary Hind242 (talk) 12:45, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

They are not. Abu Shabab has not claimed allegiance to Israel. This is extremely misleading. Willstrauss99 (talk) 14:57, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Netanyahu admitted in a video tweet to arming anti-Hamas "clans" in Gaza. Opposition leader Avigdor Lieberman told Kan news that Netanyahu had unilaterally approved the transfer of weapons to Abu Shabab. This should be investigated by wikipedians, but the statements by the PM and Lieberman necessitate coverage, if not here (until confirmation) than in other articles. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cwyn2m9yk0vo Special:Contributions/TheSands-12 15:19, 8 June 2025 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheSands-12 (talk • contribs) [reply]

You are confusing Israeli support with allegiance to Israel Willstrauss99 (talk) 18:03, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Willstrauss99 yh Hind242 (talk) 10:46, 9 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

spreading lies

Liberman saying «Netanyahu is arming groups similar to ISIS in Gaza» became « Israel is arming ISIS » in the wikipedia Brahim bmd (talk) 12:49, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Brahim bmd Various media outlets cited in the article have called them "allegedly linked to ISIS". Hamas and some in Israel too. Hind242 (talk) 12:51, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The lie started with the distortion of Liberman's statement. Brahim bmd (talk) 15:03, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Emblem AI generated?

I can't put this in the article yet as there aren't any sources describing it as such and that would be WP:OR, but I'm 99% sure the emblem is AI-generated. It has the distinct yellowish tone of many generations, there are strange visual artifacts near the keffiyeh's edge, and the Palestinian flag colors are in an illogical layout that doesn't make much sense if it was made by a human being.

Could someone take a look if anyone in Arabic-language communications pointed out yet that the emblem is generated by AI? If so, then it can be added to the article. HadesTTW (he/him • talk) 16:43, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

https://ecfr.eu/special/mapping_palestinian_politics/popular-forces-gaza/

This website showes the logo of the Popular Forces. Qhairun (talk) 16:58, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

shows.

Btw, the website was from ecfr.eu Qhairun (talk) 16:58, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not doubting that this is the actual logo, I just believe whoever made it used AI and it should be reflected in the article if a reliable source points it out. HadesTTW (he/him • talk) 17:18, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request 9 June 2025

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Description of suggested change: I would probably request adding America's support for the Mujahideen back in the 1980s in the see also section regarding potential cases of blowback (as it is in a very similar vein to Israel's support of the predecessors of Hamas in the 1980s as a counterweight to the PLO)

Diff:

Testaccount13526 (talk) 04:54, 9 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Which Wikipedia article are you specifically requesting be linked to? Also not sure that would necessarily fit on this article yet, would need to see some evidence that this is a similar situation first Cannolis (talk) 13:15, 9 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 9 June 2025

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Revert the change done by an unknown editor (62.4.44.195) who removed Israel from list of allies purposefully to vandalise the article TheBalanced (talk) 07:20, 9 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

All 3 edits from that IP were undone >24 hours before your request. Not sure how you even saw them without seeing they were already reverted. Not to mention none of those 3 edits removed Israel from the list of allies. Cannolis (talk) 13:12, 9 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

A new, related article on the actual conflict between Hamas and the PF?

Wondering if it would be a good idea for a "conflict article" to be made about the fighting between Hamas and the Popular Forces. Or perhaps not right now. Thoughts? Evaporation123 (talk) 02:59, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]