Talk:Raid on Balta

The Perpetrators of the Raid

Let’s clarify this issue: Were the perpetrators of the plunder the Haidamaks or the Zaporozhian Cossacks? Most sources claim that it was the Zaporozhian Cossacks who Did it out Ömereditss (talk) 12:00, 24 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@TheHistoryOFEUROPE Ömereditss (talk) 12:07, 24 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Perpetrators were Haidamaks. It is mentioned by Yaromenko ("Attack of the Haidamaks on the city of Balta") and by Institute of the history of Ukraine ("The movement led (through the organization of an attack by a rebel detachment on the city of Balta, which was subordinate to the Turkish kaymakan) to a serious aggravation of Russian-Turkish relations") and in the work of Pavlo Tychyna's Uman state university about the course of Koliivshchyna ("On 18 of June, Nezhyvyi and his vataga captured the village of Paliyeve Ozero, killed the captured enemies there, but some of them managed to escape to the Turkish city of Balta"), it is also confirmed that the attackers came from the Polish side of the border. The mentions of "Cossack raid" likely appeared because the Haidamaks were largely labeled as "Cossacks". TheHistoryOFEUROPE (talk) 12:26, 24 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Some sources that claim these were not Haidamaks was Zaporozhian Cossacks in the service of Russia. Ömereditss (talk) 12:32, 24 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

You are right, Polish historian Dariusz Kołodziejczyk claims that the Cossacks in Russian service are responsible for the attack In the summer of 1768, a detachment of Cossacks in Russian service chased some confederates to the border town of Balta and mas-sacred its inhabitants, including the sultan's and the khan's subjects ^[1] Historyk.ok (talk) 18:06, 24 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It seems more likely and accurate to me that the perpetrators of the plunder were Cossacks in the service of Russia. Ömereditss (talk) 18:22, 24 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I think we should simply specify in the article that sources differ on who the perpetrators were.

Martin Sicker (2000). The Islamic World in Decline. Praeger. pp. 69–70: refers to Russian-paid Zaporozhian Cossacks as "Russian Cossacks" being the perpetrators:

"Reports were received in Istanbul that the Ottoman town of Balta, on the Polish border, had been attacked and its populace massacred by a perhaps overzealous detachment of Russian Cossacks in search of Polish members of the Confederation."

From this it appears to have been based on Ottoman reports to Istanbul which identified the attackers as Cossacks in Russian service. So, it can probably be marked as "(Per Ottoman report)" if we include Cossacks. StephanSnow (talk) 23:34, 24 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

We have to do something in this situation Ömereditss (talk) 06:07, 25 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

most other sources say that the perpetrators are Cossacks in the Russian service Ömereditss (talk) 06:11, 25 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Like This [1] [2] Ömereditss (talk) 06:55, 25 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The first link you've provided mentions that the attack was carried by Maksim Zhelezniak who is a Haidamak and a leader of Koliivshchyna. Here's another source [3] which claims that the attack was carried by the Haidamaks and that the hetman of Ottoman Ukraine, Yakub Rudzevich, knew about the planned attack and put a blame on the Zaporozhian Cossacks which caused the Russo-Turkish war. The Haidamak raid is also mentioned by Strukevych (At the same time, one of the Haidamak detachments crossed the Ottoman border and sacked the city of Balta while chasing the szlachta) and by Mirchuk (Then the sontias of Shylo and Popadko, having four cannons, on the days of June 21 or 24 (July 2 or 5 according to the new style) attacked the Turkish towns of Balta and Holta, forced the Turkish and Tatar garrisons to flee and exterminated all the Polish and Jewish fugitives there). I've added the controversy part to the Aftermath section. I hope this will resolve the problem about the perpetrators of the raid. TheHistoryOFEUROPE (talk) 17:28, 25 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Can you provide the sources you have? Historyk.ok (talk) 18:20, 24 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Me? Ömereditss (talk) 18:24, 24 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Do you mean me? Ömereditss (talk) 18:27, 24 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

yes because you wrote that "Some sources that claim these were not Haidamaks" so can you provide the sources you meant Historyk.ok (talk) 18:54, 24 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I said it wrong there — what I meant was that the perpetrators were not the Haidamaks. Ömereditss (talk) 19:07, 24 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

^ Kolodziejczyk, Dariusz (2011-06-22). The Crimean Khanate and Poland-Lithuania: International Diplomacy on the European Periphery (15th-18th Century). A Study of Peace Treaties Followed by Annotated Documents. BRILL. ISBN 978-90-04-19190-7.

[1] Kolodziejczyk, Dariusz (2011-06-22). The Crimean Khanate and Poland-Lithuania: International Diplomacy on the European Periphery (15th-18th Century). A Study of Peace Treaties Followed by Annotated Documents. BRILL. ISBN 978-90-04-19190-7.

[1]