User talk:Trappist the monk

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CS1

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What is Monkbot doing?

In edit&oldid= , Monkbot removed url-status=dead parameters from citation templates to URLs that are dead, and removed url-access=subscription parameters from URLs that require a subscription to access. This seems counter-productive.

Can you please explain why Monkbot made these changes? -- mikeblas (talk) 15:45, 28 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Do you mean this edit?

In cs1|2 templates, a url assigned to |url= is presumed to be dead when |archive-url= has an assigned value:

{{cite book |title=Title |url=https://example.com |archive-url=https://archive.org |archive-date=2025-09-28}}

Title. Archived from the original on 2025-09-28. ← Title is linked to https://archive.org

It has been ever thus. Adding |url-status=dead to cs1|2 templates does nothing other than clutter the wikitext.

In cs1|2 templates, sources linked by named identifiers (|doi=, etc) are presumed to lie behind paywalls. URLs linking |title= are presumed to be free-to-read. When the url assigned to |url= matches the url created by a named identifier, task 21 deletes the redundant url and any parameters that require |url= – |access-date=, |format=, |url-access=, etc). So, for this template:

{{Cite journal |last=Gillenwater |first=Michael |date=June 2008 |title=Redefining RECs—Part 1: Untangling attributes and offsets |url=https://doi.org/10.1016/j.enpol.2008.02.036 |journal=Energy Policy |volume=36 |issue=6 |pages=2109–2119 |doi=10.1016/j.enpol.2008.02.036 |bibcode=2008EnPol..36.2109G |issn=0301-4215|url-access=subscription }}

Gillenwater, Michael (June 2008). "Redefining RECs—Part 1: Untangling attributes and offsets". Energy Policy. 36 (6): 2109–2119. Bibcode:2008EnPol..36.2109G. doi:10.1016/j.enpol.2008.02.036. ISSN 0301-4215.

task 21 deleted |url=https://doi.org/10.1016/j.enpol.2008.02.036 because that is redundant to |doi=10.1016/j.enpol.2008.02.036 and deleted |url-access=subscription because that parameter requires |url= with an assigned value:

{{Cite journal |last=Gillenwater |first=Michael |date=June 2008 |title=Redefining RECs—Part 1: Untangling attributes and offsets |journal=Energy Policy |volume=36 |issue=6 |pages=2109–2119 |doi=10.1016/j.enpol.2008.02.036 |bibcode=2008EnPol..36.2109G |issn=0301-4215}}

Gillenwater, Michael (June 2008). "Redefining RECs—Part 1: Untangling attributes and offsets". Energy Policy. 36 (6): 2109–2119. Bibcode:2008EnPol..36.2109G. doi:10.1016/j.enpol.2008.02.036. ISSN 0301-4215.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 16:48, 28 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Derp! Yes, that's the edit. I so rarely invoke the {{diff}} template correctly, sorry.

Maybe another problem is that Monkbot made several different kinds changes, but the edit summary says only "Monkbot/task 21: Replace page(s) with article-number;". Why isn't it forthright about what it did? Looks like the link includes a list of "ancillary tasks", but those seem completely unrelated to the actual text in the edit summary.

does nothing other than clutter the wikitext: well, I'd argue that it makes it easier to understand that the URL has been verified to be dead. People will add archive-url when the original URL is not dead, and that leaves the default link to the archive ... which are often slow and wobbly, and not always high-fidelity copies.

presumed to lie behind paywalls: wow, I'd never heard that before. One of the changes made was to a {{cite book}} template, which makes no mention of presumed DOI access. Looks like {{cite journal}} mentions "named identifiers", but I don't know what a "named identifier" is in the first place. Does it turn out to mean "doi", and some of the other publication codes, like "bibcode"? I guess not only editors are expected to know this, but readers too, as DOI links don't include a subscription required icon.

Thanks for the explanations! -- mikeblas (talk) 14:04, 1 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Replacing ISBNs

Monkbot is replacing ISBNs with the format ISBN template, which then gets substituted by @AnomieBot. This seems counterproductive for two bots to work together for a single task. Traumnovelle (talk) 06:10, 29 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, but task 21 is expected to be short-lived. It is not worth my time to port Module:Format ISBN and Module:Format ISBN/data from Lua to C# when AnomieBOT TemplateSubster can reliably subst: {{Format ISBN}}.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 12:56, 29 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

To be clear, this was not approved because the 'task is short'. It's several tens of thousands of edits, and will likely be an ongoing thing for as long as AManwithNoPlan (or someone else) updates Citation bot to prevent those issues from arising in the first place. The {{Format ISBN}} part was approved because there's a bug in substing in <ref></ref> tags. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 14:44, 1 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Once again...

Monkbot is still removing curly apostrophes from file names with the edit summary "Replace page(s) with article-number". File names are not page numbers, and neither are apostrophes. It's been doing this for days now, can you make it stop? Sumanuil. _{(talk to me)} 03:59, 1 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It is also removing 'url-status=dead' from dead urls. This is quite annoying. Traumnovelle (talk) 07:10, 3 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it is. There is no point in highlighting the norm. In any cs1|2 template that has both |url= and |archive-url= with assigned values, |url= is presumed to be dead. This 'norm' has been ever thus. So, |url-status=dead is redundant to the norm and conveys no new information so may be safely deleted; cf.:

with |url-status=dead:

{{cite web|title=Von Willebrand's Disease|url=http://www.vet.uga.edu/vpp/clerk/anderson/index.php|access-date=2 April 2011|author1=Julie B. Anderson|author2=Kenneth S. Latimer|author3=Perry J. Bain|author4=Heather L. Tarpley|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20110918210247/http://www.vet.uga.edu/vpp/clerk/anderson/index.php|archive-date=18 September 2011|url-status=dead}}

Julie B. Anderson; Kenneth S. Latimer; Perry J. Bain; Heather L. Tarpley. "Von Willebrand's Disease". Archived from the original on 18 September 2011. Retrieved 2 April 2011.

without |url-status=dead:

{{cite web|title=Von Willebrand's Disease|url=http://www.vet.uga.edu/vpp/clerk/anderson/index.php|access-date=2 April 2011|author1=Julie B. Anderson|author2=Kenneth S. Latimer|author3=Perry J. Bain|author4=Heather L. Tarpley|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20110918210247/http://www.vet.uga.edu/vpp/clerk/anderson/index.php|archive-date=18 September 2011}}

Julie B. Anderson; Kenneth S. Latimer; Perry J. Bain; Heather L. Tarpley. "Von Willebrand's Disease". Archived from the original on 18 September 2011. Retrieved 2 April 2011.

The renderings are the same so no need to keep |url-status=dead.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 15:07, 3 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

If the renderings are the same then there is no need to change it. Traumnovelle (talk) 20:21, 3 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Lepra erythrella and 'cite repair;'

Hi there, I've just seen your edit on Lepra erythrella where you've replaced the CiteQ references. As I understand WP:CITEVAR, changing a page's citation style based on personal preference is strongly discouraged. Could I check what it is about the citations which was wrong or inaccurate? --Prosperosity (talk) 20:26, 1 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Cite Q is a blight on the world. Specifically, the flaws exists in Wikidata and cannot sanely be fixed on Wikipedia. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 20:29, 1 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I came to Lepra erythrella because this template (permalink) was showing this message: CS1 maint: article number as page number. To fix that, |page=e0180284 must be changed to |article-number=e0180284. {{cite q}} does not know about |article-number= nor, I think, does Wikidata. To make the fix, I converted that template to {{cite journal}}. Having done that, I converted the others as well so that the article would be internally consistent. That allowed me to properly format genus and species names in |title=.

And I agree that Cite Q is a blight... – even though I contributed to its development early-on and have been known to make occasional fixes.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 21:49, 1 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Ahhh, that does make sense. Article numbers is something a bit tricky that Wikidata/citeQ don't have the properties for yet. Prosperosity (talk) 23:50, 1 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

James Heilman

Hello Trappist the monk, please have a second look at your current edit in James Heilman. Since then, the WayBackMachine-Capture 20141018035524 is noted twice among the Wikipedia-related publications, once in a non-good shape. Yours, --Himbeerbläuling (talk) 09:01, 2 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, done --Himbeerbläuling (talk) 10:47, 3 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Broken bot edits

Please examine: [1], [2], [3], [4], [5]. Thanks. – Jonesey95 (talk) 12:08, 3 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Examined; fix applied; reedited:

Bernard Lerer; manual fix applied (different from your fix at Methamphetamine)
Panagrolaimus superbus
Jay Tischfield
List of awards and nominations received by Michael Jackson

—Trappist the monk (talk) 14:49, 3 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Issue with removing access date that is commented

Hi, This bot is unable to properly remove access-date in references that are commented already. It may be part of cleaning up references, but it breaks the reference by leaving one end of the comment tags ''<!--''

Check this: Paleolithic [6]

Thanks, Aadirulez8 (talk) 11:57, 5 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Not going to fix because this search and this search suggest that there are/were only a very few articles within the bot's areas of interest that have that issue. I'll fix those articles manually.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 14:09, 5 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

"CS1 maint: article number as page number" in template

I noticed that Monkbot has been clearing this category. I'm wondering if there is a way to resolve the remaining articles in the category listed here since for both of the articles the maintenance category is in the "Academic peer reviewed" template. Velayinosu (talk) 02:38, 7 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

If you follow the wikidata qid links from those {{Academic peer reviewed}} to wikidata you will see that in both cases, wikidata uses page(s) (P304) to hold the article number

Viral Phylodynamics (Q21045423): P304 → e1002947

Viral quasispecies (Q86320171): P304 → e1008271

So far as I know, wikidata does not support article numbers. Because of that, {{cite q}}, which creates the citation in the final {{Academic peer reviewed}} rendering, does not know about |article-number=.

At present there is no way to resolve this issue in {{Academic peer reviewed}} renderings.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 14:00, 7 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, same with the unsupported |doi-access=free which I had to implement in {{cite q}} because Wikidata doesn't support flagging identifiers as free (including bibcode-access, jstor-access, ssrn-access, etc...). Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 14:05, 7 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for that. You meant {{Cite Q EtAl}} (hate that name... no need for the stupid caps). I have tweaked {{Academic peer reviewed}}, {{Academic peer reviewed/talk}}, and {{Academic peer reviewed/other}} to pass |article-number= to {{Cite Q EtAl}}:

{{Academic peer reviewed|Q21045423|doi-access=free|article-number=e1002947}}

This article was adapted from Erik M Volz; Katia Koelle; Trevor Bedford (21 March 2013). "Viral phylodynamics". PLOS Computational Biology. 9 (3) e1002947. doi:10.1371/JOURNAL.PCBI.1002947. ISSN 1553-734X. PMC 3605911. PMID 23555203. Wikidata Q21045423. after peer review (reviewer reports) under a CC BY 4.0 license (2013).

So there is a sort-of-fix that can be applied as a limited workaround; |pages= from wikidata is overridden.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 15:17, 7 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]