Talk:Alternative for Germany

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This article was nominated for deletion on 5 March 2013. The result of the discussion was keep.

Number of Members massively outdated

Current count: 51.000 and growing. Considering the 50% growth since 2023, you should really update your numbers. (I refuse read socialist propaganda, and thus cannot offer what you people call a "reliable source" for this fact about the German libertarian movement.) 195.52.190.117 (talk) 01:06, 21 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia is not up for promoting alternative facts. If you admit upfront that you cannot provide any reliable sources, then your claims should be ignored outright. Guycn2 (talk) 07:23, 21 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The IP is using a confrontational tone and is not being helpful by not offering a source, but their suggestion is broadly true. Reuters [1] "AfD membership had grown by 60% to 46,881 members since January 2023, co-chief Tino Chrupalla told nearly 600 delegates at a party convention in the western city of Essen. Some 22,000 people had joined while 4,000 had left". As it says on List of largest political parties, self-declared figures are about as good as we can get in most countries, where party membership is a decision to subscribe financially to and possibly run for office for a party (unlike most US states where this is an option on voter registration, and there is the culture of primary elections). Despite being a self-declared number, this is hardly an outlandish claim, as it is roughly 1 of every 2000 Germans, and "a fraction of the hundreds of thousands of members boasted by the "big tent" parties in Germany, Scholz’s Social Democrats and the opposition conservatives." Unknown Temptation (talk) 17:51, 26 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The current polling data shows that the AFD are already neck on neck with the CDU/CSU due to the recent coalition of Merz with the Social Democrats (SPD). And the "government" has barely started. So yes, it is outdated as hell Atlanticseaa (talk) 20:42, 13 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Category "Antisemitism in Germany" is a strawman

The party supports Israel and has a jewish member interest group within its party structure. 2003:DA:C74E:2400:8CF9:F575:B0C5:DA8F (talk) 22:21, 7 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I actually agree with this, I will remove the category and take a look at adding any appropriate categories. Zyxrq (talk) 08:53, 12 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

While I agree they aren't antisemitic, AfD is more neutral on Israel these days. Even had neutrality on the Wahlomat. JohannTheFactGerman (talk) 20:36, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree with this idea, there are certainly perceived anti-semitic elements to at least some significant members of the party. According to [2], the party supported calls to ban some Jewish religious rituals, in addition [3] states that members of the party were criticized for alleged antisemitism by Dani Dayan, chair of the Yad Vashem. Several party leaders, including Björn Höcke, who gave a speech calling a Holocaust memorial a "monument of shame", ([4]) have also been criticized as possible antisemites. If the party isn't antisemitic, they still would be significant in the topic of Antisemitism in Germany due to these allegations. -Samoht27 (talk) 21:31, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

While I don't agree that the AfD are antisemitic, I agree that due to certain examples like Höcke, they'd be part of the antisemitism conversation. However, I would also point out that someone can be against the German "guilt culture" while not being against Jewish people. Höcke's statement is less about Jews and more about Germany being the only nation to take historical responsibility to such a far extent, while other nations ignore their past atrocities. Nonetheless, it makes sense to me to keep the antisemitism section. JohannTheFactGerman (talk) 21:45, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Voting intention survey data

The dissatisfaction of Merz's financial plan of debt and the new coalition plan with the SDP is driving the voters away. Sources: https://www.economist.com/europe/2025/04/09/germanys-new-centrist-government-is-reassuring-but-bland https://www.politico.eu/article/friedrich-merz-germany-christian-democratic-union-social-democratic-party-coalition-talks/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/germanys-far-right-afd-tops-poll-first-time-blow-chancellor-in-waiting-merz-2025-04-09/ https://www.ft.com/content/58c2819f-74a8-44f9-ad08-fb654c93d4ee https://www.ft.com/content/13104190-f2d8-4296-8584-05574e5706f2

To add context, here is also the data from the recent survey for the bundestag election: https://politpro.eu/en/germany/institute/ipsos

By the way, it makes no difference to separate polling, election results and membership data on the article. They are all entangled and extremely related. If anything, they should be closer to each other. As to the removal attempts for this being "right-wing propaganda" - this place is pure sophistry. Atlanticseaa (talk) 17:58, 14 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The dissatisfaction of Merz's financial plan of debt and the new coalition plan with the SDP is driving the voters away. That causal relation is somebody's opinion, not a fact. If we use it, we have to attribute it.

it makes no difference To AfD fans, Republicans and other bullshitters, true or false makes no difference. To normal people, it does. --Hob Gadling (talk) 19:31, 14 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

End of the firewall "German parties’ boycott of far right looks to be over — with AfD on course for key jobs"

According to politico[[5]] "Lawmakers from the incoming chancellor’s CDU party signal an end to the “firewall” that saw mainstream politicians refuse to work with extreme groups for decades." It's to note this is something we should keep a eye on and add into the Wikipedia article if or when needed. Zyxrq (talk) 08:51, 17 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

AfD "extreme right"

BBC article "AfD classified as extreme-right by German intelligence". -- Cdjp1 (talk) 21:26, 2 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The AfD also has racist, anti-feminist, neo-fascist, islamophobic, revanchist and revisionist tendencies 2A02:8388:1AC7:7380:B92E:76C:59A3:FF2A (talk) 18:22, 4 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Mainstream

It may well be, as long as it's sourced to independent and third party reliable sources. But as I noted in edit summary (1), it's too specific for the lead, and in e-s (2) it is not mentioned in the article body (see WP:LEADFOLLOWSBODY). As such, emphasizing it being "mainstream" is verging on non-neutral. And per policy the it is User:Keeper of Albion's responsibility to seek a consensus for its incluson here, on the talk page. Fortuna, Imperatrix Mundi 13:32, 5 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed. The judgement of any individual editor that a party is "mainstream" is original research; if sources describe AfD as mainstream, let's see them. That they are now monitored as an extremist group would seem to suggest that they aren't mainstream. 331dot (talk) 13:38, 5 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Why would that suggest they’re not mainstream? The Labour Party is the second political party in British history after the fascist British National Party to be investigated for racism. Are they also not mainstream?

Are you really suggesting that the second-largest party in the Bundestag — a party that received more than 10 million votes at the 2025 German federal election, and which is listed in second place on that very article — is in fact not mainstream? Where would that leave it, exactly? As a fringe party? Keeper of Albion (talk) 13:43, 5 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn't matter what you or I think, what matters is what reliable sources say. 331dot (talk) 13:50, 5 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

https://foreignpolicy.com/2025/02/24/afd-german-election-weidel-opposition-mainstream/

The AfD Is Now Germany’s Mainstream Skellyret (talk) 20:28, 5 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

That's only the headline saying it, not the article. See WP:HEADLINE. --Hob Gadling (talk) 08:50, 6 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Brother the article itself doesn't explicitly say that the party is mainstream but it quite obviously implies that it is (and has already said it explicitly in the headline) if you read the article. It's just silly to deny that the AfD is mainstream atp. Skellyret (talk) 09:25, 6 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The majority of Germans is still aware that we tried that thing before ninety years ago and it failed spectacularly. No, "Nazis are not stupid assholes" is not "mainstream" here by any measure. The wording in the text does not go as far as using the word, and there is no need to shift the meaning by adopting wording from headlines which may be overstated or lack context, and sometimes contain exaggerations or sensationalized claims. --Hob Gadling (talk) 06:14, 7 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Lmao ok sure bro whatever you say Skellyret (talk) 06:53, 7 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The source doesn't explicitly use the word "mainstream" in its text, but the meaning is very clearly reflected in the last sentence before the paywall kicks in: It is now Germany’s second-strongest party; the largest opposition party in the Bundestag; the favored party of the working class; the no. 1 party in Germany’s eastern states; a darling of the new U.S. administration; and it also boasts representation in the regional legislatures of all but one German state and in the EU parliament, too, where it is buttressed by like-minded allies.

I would oppose the usage of "mainstream" as well though, because that would imply acceptance by other parties in governing form, which is specifically not the case and well-sourced ("Brandmauer", etc.). Honestly, I would say to ditch the "mainstream" word altogether in the lede; the current revision would work just as well as without that word. Mystic Cornball (talk) 23:05, 7 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Is the presumption, it is not mainstream? Halbared (talk) 13:52, 5 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

We shouldn't say they are or if they're not, unless sources discuss it one way or the other. 331dot (talk) 13:53, 5 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Simple typo on AfD page

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

At the end of Paragraph 5 of the section 'Ideology and platform' just above the subsection 'Ideological factions' There is a typo, with an unattached c. Please change the sentence from "In 2025, the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution c officially classified AfD as a "confirmed right-wing extremist endeavor,"" to '"In 2025, the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution officially classified AfD as a "confirmed right-wing extremist endeavor,""' TheWorldBooker (talk) 02:41, 20 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Done. --Hob Gadling (talk) 07:29, 20 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 4 June 2025

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Hard facts24 (talk) 23:06, 4 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I just wanted to add they are a neo nazi party

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Day Creature (talk) 06:16, 5 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]