Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Irish language in Britain

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Irish language outside Ireland#Britain. Leaving edit history intact. J04n(talk page) 16:07, 13 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Irish language in Britain

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Redundant. The subject doesn't merit its own article, and all the content can be covered by other existing articles (see the various discussions on Talk:Irish language in Britain). Note 1: The article has been proposed for merging into other articles for three years, but nothing's happened. Note 2: A proposed deletion ("PROD") notice I added a few hours ago has been removed (so presumably the proposed deletion is opposed). A bit iffy (talk) 21:21, 6 March 2015 (UTC).[reply]

Keep The topic is notable. For example, see The Irish Language in Britain. Andrew D. (talk) 23:29, 6 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Irish language outside Ireland#Britain. The existing discussion at Irish language outside Ireland#Britain is better than what we have here, and at the moment I don't see a need for this as a separate article. --Arxiloxos (talk) 23:58, 6 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect per Arxiloxos. There isn't anything here which is not already better covered there. The only reason for opposing delete is that it is a useful redirect. --Richhoncho (talk) 12:26, 7 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note to Arxiloxos and Richhoncho: Northern Ireland is part of Britain and is not "outside Ireland", so it is not covered by that article. Softlavender (talk) 04:37, 8 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Depends what one's definition of 'Britain' is. Although it is often loosely used as synonymous with the UK, I think many here are taking it as meaning Great Britain, or the UK without NI.--A bit iffy (talk) 07:10, 8 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

If Great Britain is meant by "Britain", then Great Britain should be in the article title and text, and the article should be re-named Irish language in Great Britain. Softlavender (talk) 07:23, 8 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, 'Great Britain' would have been clearer, and this was actually proposed at Talk:Irish language in Britain#Move request. However, that proposal was turned down pending resolution of the discussion to merge or delete. But nothing got resolved after three years, and the merge notice was just left there hanging.

It's usual on Wikipedia to use 'United Kingdom' not 'Britain' when referring to the sovereign country, so this is why I've assumed 'Great Britain' is implied.

--A bit iffy (talk) 07:51, 8 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

However we can't make assumptions on Wikipedia; we need to be specific and also internally consistent. That move request was inherently problematic itself because it was made two days after a merge proposal and it requested two different and opposing move options rather than one. As for the merge proposal, the reason it went nowhere is because no one knew it existed -- a merge tag was not posted on the destination article as required per WP:MERGE, nor was the discussion placed on the destination article's talk page as recommended per WP:MERGE. Softlavender (talk) 08:17, 8 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 17:50, 7 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Language-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 17:51, 7 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ireland-related deletion discussions. A bit iffy (talk) 22:52, 7 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

At least preserve the editing history, because Coláiste na nGael was split from this article. LadyofShalott 00:19, 8 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Figure out what the article wants to be about and then rename it and then decide what to do with it. It should be renamed either Irish language in Great Britain or Irish language in the United Kingdom, per WP:POPE. Then can have a proper AfD if one is still warranted. There are certainly items that can be added to flesh out either topic; whether that is warranted in the first case is debatable but there's no point in wasting our time discussing the fate of an ambiguously titled article, in my opinion. Keep and flesh out with information on the Irish language in Northern Ireland, which is part of Britain. Rather baffling why this isn't yet covered in the article. The presence of the Irish language in Northern Ireland is obviously a notable topic, as it has its own article: Irish language in Northern Ireland. Softlavender (talk) 04:28, 8 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I would support renaming it as Irish language in Great Britain first.--A bit iffy (talk) 14:41, 8 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect per Arxiloxos. Speaking as a Gaeilgeoir and consumer of Irish Vicipéid the one thing we should NOT do is change the title to Irish language in the United Kingdom because, ahem, Irish is spoken quite extensively among the nationalist community in Northern Ireland, the element of the United Kingdom that is not part of Great Britain, and scarcely spoken at all elsewhere in Great Britain. (Contrary to what Softlavender says, Northern Ireland is NOT part of Britain.) I am pretty sure that the editors of this article were conscious of the distinction and we don't want to rehash that history here (for the curious or masochistic, see The Troubles). Also, there's a good, well sourced, article entitled Irish language in Northern Ireland as well as the abovementioned Irish language outside Ireland#Britain. There's no need for this article to exist. Fiachra10003 (talk) 02:29, 9 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect per Arxiloxos. Egsan Bacon (talk) 17:01, 9 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect -- Though in loose usage Britain and British relate to UK, in strict usage NI is not part of GB. The present article is a very weak one, basically because the Gaelic language is mainly spoken, even in Ireland, only in a few areas. It will not be spoken by any significant number of people in GB of Irish heritage. I would strongly oppose the UK rename option. If we keep it, it should be renamed to Irish language in Great Britain, but the redoirect option is by far the best however the target article should be amended so that the title is GB not Britain. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:36, 11 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.