Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2013 January 5

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January 5

File:Friuli-Venezia Giulia-Flag.png

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: Delete. The file has been replaced with a free alternative. James086 ^Talk 17:09, 14 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It says that the purpose of the image is to violate the WP:NFCC#3a, WP:NFCC#8, WP:NFCC#9 and WP:NFLISTS policies. Tagged {{db-f7}} since it obviously is a blatant violation of the WP:NFCC policy, as explained at WP:CSD#F7. The tag was later removed by Nyttend (talk · contribs), stating that "Flags are as reasonable as logos". I couldn't agree more with that statement: unfree flags are exactly as reasonable as unfree logos "within lists, templates, and articles", i.e. totally unacceptable (except in the article about the entity which the flag describes, where the flag isn't used anyway). Stefan2 (talk) 23:17, 5 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I am a relatively inexperienced editor here, primarily interested in Italian Nationality Law where I specialize in editing and supplying content for that particular article. I visited the talk page of WikiProject Italy, where the topic of the missing flag is discussed:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Italy

It was deleted from Wikimedia Commons. It does not belong on Commons because it is potentially non-free content, as I have specified in the licensing tag. Deletion from Commons does not mean that it cannot be used in English Wikipedia because the projects have different policies in respect to non-free content. (Non-free content for fair use is not accepted in Commons.)

Wikipedia, the last I checked, was using an image of every regional flag of Italy except for the one of Friuli-Venezia Giulia, because it got deleted from Commons.

Before I uploaded this file, a file on Commons having the same name as this one in discussion was being used in the article about Friuli-Venezia Giulia in addition to several other articles, lists, and templates.

I uploaded http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Friuli_Venezia_Giulia_flag.gif and linked the article about Friuli-Venezia Giulia to it, and then I linked two more articles to it. I decided that this was an error because this first upload didn't fix the affected templates and other articles without the need to relink each of them. Upon learning of this discussion, I reversed those three edits. Now all of the articles that have used http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Friuli-Venezia_Giulia-Flag.png are again pointing to it. The gif file is flagged for deletion and it will be deleted because I do not plan to write a fair use rationale for it and it is not currently linked to articles.

Could I have a few days to learn how to write a fair use rationale for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Friuli-Venezia_Giulia-Flag.png? I'm a little bit busy at the present moment, however I can get to it within the week.

Enforcement of WP:NFCC is saying "A file with a valid non-free-use rationale for some (but not all) articles it is used in will not be deleted. Instead, the file should be removed from the articles for which it lacks a non-free-use rationale, or a suitable rationale added". So perhaps a better topic would be whether the flag had fair use in all of its connected articles, lists, and templates, and where its display should be removed.Italick (talk) 02:52, 6 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I would like to add that I don't really know whether the image is free or non-free. It is an official regional Italian flag, and has been included by editors other than myself in the "Flags of Europe" article. If it is non-free, it is only partially so for containing a unique representation of the eagle and turret which could vary very slightly from one portrayal of the flag to another. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Italick (talk • contribs) 03:13, 6 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

There is also WP:NFCC#9 (which says that you may not use non-free files in templates and numerous other places), but this one is used in numerous templates, user pages and talk pages. Also, you can't use it in sidebars such as the one in Friuli-Venezia Giulia regional election, 1978 or tables such as the one in ISO 3166-2:IT, since that usage fails WP:NFCC#8. --Stefan2 (talk) 16:10, 6 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Barring everything else, it's currently in use at Friuli-Venezia Giulia. If it were a clearly nonfree logo, we'd remove it from most or all other pages but keep it here. I can't remember seeing any other flags called nonfree, but regardless of past precedent in that arena, there's nothing wrong with having it used on the region article. Nyttend (talk) 03:22, 6 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- It's used there now, but when this file was nominated for deletion, that article used a different image: File:Friuli Venezia Giulia flag.gif (now unused). --Stefan2 (talk) 16:10, 6 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I've begun removing this image from templates where it was in violation of WP:NFCC#9. That should drastically reduce the usage once it propagates through. I haven't evaluated other uses of this image yet. VernoWhitney (talk) 17:53, 6 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Usage does appear to have been removed on all pages except the articles Friuli-Venezia Giulia, Flags_of_regions_of_Italy, and Flags_of_Europe. Italick (talk) 00:53, 7 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The copyright statement of www.crwflags.com which hosted the Friuli-Venezia Giulia flag is here: http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/disclaim.html . It contains provisions for free use of copyrighted flag images on the website.Italick (talk) 23:25, 6 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- That licence is unfree. See {{db-f3}}.

you do not alter in any way the images or the content of the text
you use the material for non-commercial and non-political purposes only
if you distribute our materials by a non-Internet way (e.g., floppy disks or CD-ROM) you cannot sell these media

Stefan2 (talk) 23:28, 6 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I've modeled the file description page after the one for the flag of Kitchener, Ontario: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kitchener_Flag.png — Preceding unsigned comment added by Italick (talk • contribs) 23:55, 6 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Now that this file has been taken out of use on all pages except Friuli-Venezia Giulia, Flags_of_regions_of_Italy, and Flags_of_Europe, I am considering pointing those articles to the gif file and letting the png file go. I took the gif file from crwflags.com. The png file is a reformatting of the gif file. I would set up essentially the file description page that I arranged for the png file. Italick (talk) 12:48, 7 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep in its only current use at Friuli-Venezia Giulia. I have further removed the image from the Flags of Europe, Flags of regions of Italy, and List of Italian flags articles as being blatant violations of WP:NFG/WP:NFLISTS. Its use in the main article about the region is certainly appropriate, and per Help:Files we prefer PNG over GIF format. VernoWhitney (talk) 16:43, 7 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, it seems that the file usage section shows the actual usage now. Using it in Friuli-Venezia Giulia seems OK. --Stefan2 (talk) 18:09, 7 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- OK. I maintain no objection whatsoever to using it only in Friuli-Venezia Giulia. Italick (talk) 23:10, 7 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I have located a public law of Italy which depicts the flag's crest. I copied the crest from the law, and imposed it over a blue rectangular field to portray the flag, which I uploaded to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_Friuli-Venezeia_Giulia.png. I relinked Friuli-Venezia Giulia to the new file. Information about the statute is available on the new file's page. Italick (talk) 04:10, 9 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- For anyone wondering about the quality of that image, the JPEG artefacts are in the source document, not produced by Italick. Thryduulf (talk) 05:15, 9 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  - Thank you for pointing that out. I'm using the newly uploaded image because I believe that it is in the public domain. The file nominated for deletion (without artifacts) is not a duplication of the image in the public statute, so I am not sure whether it is likewise in the public domain. Italick (talk) 05:47, 9 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, as long as file:Flag_of_Friuli-Venezeia_Giulia.png doesn't pose a problem. While not a great photographic reproduction, it does look OK after it is reduced to the size where it is used in Friuli-Venezia Giulia. The file discussed for deletion has been replaced with one that is free in the U.S.. (edict of a government) Italick (talk) 17:47, 10 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.