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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Hégésippe Cormier (talk | contribs) at 13:42, 23 March 2005 (→March 22). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.
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This page is only for listing images which are duplicates or otherwise unneeded. For copyright infringements, use Wikipedia:Copyright problems. For licensing issues that are not copyright infringements, use Wikipedia:Possibly unfree images.

Articles that have been listed for more than one week are eligible for deletion if either a consensus to do so has been reached or no objections to its deletion have been raised. Such images should be dealt with as soon as possible.

As per the speedy deletion policy, administrators can delete on sight "[a]n image which is a redundant (all bits the same or scaled-down) copy of something else on Wikipedia and as long as all inward links have been changed to the image being retained." This does not include visually similar pictures, such as PNG versions of JPEG images. Such images should be listed here instead. For the time being, this also does not include photos copied to Wikimedia Commons.

Deletion guidelines for administrators -- deletion log -- List of empty images

Listing instructions

To list an image on this page, simply add it to the bottom. If it is an obsoleted image, please also list the image that it is obsoleted by, in the format "[[:Image:Foo.jpg]] - obsoleted by [[:Image:Bar.jpg]]".

Please always inform the uploader of the image that their image is at imminent risk of deletion by adding a message to their talk page.

If you remove an image from an article, you should list the article from which you removed it, so there can be effective community review of whether or not the image should be deleted. This is necessary because image pages do not remember the articles the images used to be used on.

Add the following message to the top of any image page listed on this page: {{ifd}}, which shows up as:

This template should only be used on file pages.

On this page, state the reasons that the image should be deleted. Some people like to use the following abbreviations:

  • AB (absentee uploader} - the uploader has not contributed to Wikipedia in a long time, and is probably unavailable to answer questions.
  • CV (copyright violation) - the image might be used in violation of copyright, or else there is no copyright info provided
  • NE (not English) - the image contains text that is not English.
  • OB (obsolete) - the image has been replaced by a better version.
  • OF (out-of-focus) - the image is blurry.
  • OR (orphan) - the image is not used on any pages in Wikipedia.
  • UE (unencyclopedic) - the image doesn't seem likely to be useful in an encyclopedia
  • UV (unverified) - image does not contain source and copyright info; tagged with {{unverified}}

Please sign any listing or vote you add, by adding this after your comment: ~~~~

Instructions for administrators

Before deleting an image, please make sure of the following:

  • That the image has been listed on this page for one week or longer
  • That the uploader has been alerted on their talk page to the imminent deletion of their image
  • That no objections to its deletion have been raised, or that a consensus to delete has been reached
  • That the image is not used in any articles (note that "What links here" is not currently reliable)
  • That the image is not currently being processed as a copyright violation

To delete an image, open the image page and click either the link, "Delete all revisions of this image" or the usual "delete" tab at the top of the page. Either will work. (This was not the case in previous versions of the software.)

Also, please specify the reason for deletion in your deletion summary. Examples:

Orphaned and obsoleted, listed on IfD since (date)
Orphaned copyright violation, listed on IfD since (date)

If you delete an image listed on this page, please remove the listing and note your removal in your edit summary.

When deleting an image because an identically named image exists in the Wikimedia Commons, make sure to preserve the image description. Otherwise the image will still be shown but the page will also say "This page does not exist".

The "What links here" tool is broken for images. Do not rely on what links here to determine whether an image is unused! You must use the Wikipedia internal search engine, with all namespaces selected, to confirm that an image is unused in the English-language Wikipedia. You should also be alert for signs that the image is used in other languages, some of which use external links to include images from en. See BUG 85 for the current status of this issue.

Listings older than one week

These need additional information or more opinions before consensus can be determined.

Listings less than one week old

March 16

March 17

March 18

(William M. Connolley 13:42, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)) They are Twin Otters, of course. The title is entirely accurate. Don't delete. I've added it to the twotter page.

March 19

March 20

  • I've got to disagree about this one. In context, it's a perfectly appropriate illustration for a section of a longer article. As the article stands now this photo should not be used, but there's no reason we can't keep it around for when the article expands. Gamaliel 07:44, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Agreed. The image shouldn't be deleted, but should be renamed. Demi T/C 08:01, 2005 Mar 20 (UTC)
  • Keep; valid for the article. --SPUI (talk) 08:04, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. There's no article in which devoting this much space to snigger at a typo would be appropriate. - Nunh-huh 08:06, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Heh, heh, heh, he said "snigger", Butt-head.
  • I'm on the fence, so I'll vote to keep this one. Rhobite 08:16, Mar 20, 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep, the image is illustrative of an incident that made worldwide press coverage. It is no longer the primary image for the article, so it cant be said that the article is merely for the display of this image. User:Alkivar/sig 08:26, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Extreme keep and note that no one remembered to "ALWAYS [...] alert the uploader of image via their talk page" that this was tagged for deletion. —RaD Man (talk) 13:32, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. The event can be described without the image, and I think that would be more appropriate for something as barely-notable as an embarrassing typo. This would be a fair use image, and I'm not sure the use is necessary. That's my 2 cents anyway. – Quadell (talk) (sleuth) 00:04, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC)
    • I'd like to point out that you haven't given a reason for deletion, only a description of what else could be done. Nearly every image in Wikipedia could be described. However, and especially in this case, the image answers questions that would be awkward to answer in a description: namely, "how bad was it?" and "was it really on TV?" Demi T/C 02:39, 2005 Mar 21 (UTC)
  • Keep - no reason to delete. – ClockworkSoul 06:19, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

March 21

Image:Jimmy Buffett.jpg.

March 22

  • Image:Autofellatio.jpg — Moved from WP:VFD. All votes at and before 06:13, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC) were from VFD TIMBO (T A L K) 06:45, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • Please Note: This image was listed here on February 12, and survived the ifd process. It was listed again in early March, and the vote was removed since it hadn't been a month since the last time it was voted on. It has now been over a month since this image was properly listed and voted on, so this vote (on IfD) is valid. – Quadell (talk) (sleuth) 00:13, Mar 23, 2005 (UTC)
  • On the French Wikipedia a mad person has tried many times to redirect several pages (including my User Talk on fr-wikipedia) to this image. That's no good publicity for Wikipedia, so remove please... - [[User:Pabix|Pabix ܀.]] 21:24, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • I do not believe "vandalism" is a valid reason for image deletion - simply keep an eye on what links to it. It remains encyclopaedic and informative - there are many other images vandals may use if this is deleted --Oldak Quill 22:47, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete, no encyclopedic potential -- indeed, no redeeming value at all ➥the Epopt 21:41, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • How is the image any more or less encyclopaedic than an image of a forest? It demonstrates a concept, and may be accessed by clicking the link. --Oldak Quill 22:47, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. Sinistro 21:51, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete Has gone through IfD and survived, and strictly speaking should go back through there. Useful image, at least demonstrates that autofellatio is possible, and may have a use in that context. However, it is also abuseful, as the numerous incidences of vandalism involved using this image will demonstrate. The risk outweighs any benefit we can gain with this image. Chris 22:02, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Do you think we will achieve anything by allowing vandals to win in terms of content? We simply have to keep our eye on it and ensure nothing links to it that shouldn't be. --Oldak Quill 22:47, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment. This doesn't belong here; it belongs on IfD—where it has apparently already survived. If we start deleting images (or redirects, or templates) through VfD, then we encourage editors unhappy with RfD or TfD outcomes to 'forum shop' until they can get the answer that they want. --TenOfAllTrades | Talk 22:19, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)
The following comment placed on a duplicate fo this vote, copied here. Chris 22:22, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment: This image is already listed on Wikipedia:Possibly unfree images. Since images are inappropiate on VfD, and discussing this in multiple places at once is counterproductive, I suggest further comment be made there instead. —Korath (Talk) 22:09, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC)
  • Invalid listing. Not only should it be on the ifd page, but the vote there has already been held, and there was no consensus to delete. RickK 00:08, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC)
  • Invalid Listing. This image has graced IfD with it's presence perhaps 4 times in the last month or two, from overzalous deletionists and morally offended editors. As RickK observes, there was no consensus to delete. I remind everyone here that there are some explicit pictures at penis and many other places that might offend people in the improper context. What's more, a vandal can upload any picture to wikipedia, or even to any language of wikipedia and then do the old inter-inter-wiki linking trick. The image is not the problem - one stupid asshole vandalizing wikipedia is the problem. I suspect he or she is doing this exactly to elicit this response, since the picture alone did not garner the hysterically offended response that he or she assumed it would. TIMBO (T A L K) 00:19, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • P.S. sorry for the strong language, but it really irks me that the anti–offensive-image onslought persists. TIMBO (T A L K) 00:21, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • I understand your frustration, having been irked when things come up for deletion repeatedly before. That said, it does seem from the votes so far that there's been a substantial change in the consensus, so this may not be inappropriate. Snowspinner 14:38, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC)
  • COMMENT it doesn't look like Auto-Fellatio, looks like an auto-facial, as he's jerking off. 132.205.15.43 01:47, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Sorry, Wrong Page'. Please list this on Images for Deletion instead. - Mailer Diablo 01:47, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. Completely unnecessary Trampled 01:50, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Could you explain why you think it is unnecessary? It is illustrative and encyclopaedic. --Oldak Quill 22:47, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. Agree with Chris. I have no objection to this image used in the appropriate article, but it is doing more harm than good on Wikipedia because of vandalism. If we could have a software change which prevents a suitably tagged image from appearing inline or being redirected to, then I'd change my vote, assuming no copyright violation. As far as the vandals using other images if this is deleted: pictures of genitalia out of context are less offensive than this is out of context.-gadfium 02:33, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • Comment: That's a matter of opinion, and the vandal could upload this picture again him/herself if (s)he wanted to use it again in vandalism. TIMBO (T A L K) 04:24, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
      • Yes, votes always are a matter of opinion. If reuploaded, the image could be deleted immediately upon detection. There are far more offensive images that vandals could upload, I'm sure (and occasionally they do). Most of the time, they use images already available.-gadfium 04:40, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
      • Uh... couldn't a user still reupload it and vandalise with it if we vote to delete it? In fact, a user may upload any image of any "level of offensiveness" and vandalise with it. Do you have any more valid justification for your vote? --Oldak Quill 22:54, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete, unnecessary. Megan1967 05:13, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • I fail to understand how this is unnecessary... it is illustrative and encyclopaedic? --Oldak Quill 22:54, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. Gamaliel 06:13, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • I will transfer this talk to Images for Deletion. Sorry ! Pabix.
  • Delete – Only reason to have this is for shock value. – ClockworkSoul 06:24, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • Well... that and to illustrate the article "auto-fellatio". The fact that you find auto-fellatio and images of it "shocking" it does not mean that the images can ONLY be shocking. --Oldak Quill 22:54, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment. If I were a 14-year old boy who had read something disturbing or titillating about autofellatio, and decided to check out this resource that claimed to be a free collection of all human knowledge, I would be glad to find a picture that made clear just what that disturbing reference was talking about, cuz sometimes one .jpg is worth a kilobyte of text. If I were accessing the site through the Internet (which, by definition, I would be), I wouldn't be surfing WikiPedia for long dong porn. There are many better sites for that. I ("I" BradGad (Talk) 06:47, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC) the writer of this post; not the hypothetical "I" kid described so far) think that the people who would look up this article for the right reasons (and there are valid reasons) would benefit from this image. I think that the people who would look it up for the wrong reasons would go somewhere else. (I do realize that people like Public Librarians trying to impose filter rules are faced with special challenges, but I still stand by my position.) I think this image has a valid place on WikiPedia.
  • But would you like to see your talk page redirected to this image ? I think there is already a drawing on the page, this photo is unadequate on an encyclopedia where young people could go, and particularly when it is used mostly for vandalism. Pabix ܀. 10:29, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • I do not think anyone would, but not a valid reason to delete. Further, since when should "young people" not see sexual acts. If you have children and do not wish them to follow their curiosity monitor them while they are online - we, Wikipedia contributors, are not nannys. --Oldak Quill 22:54, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • In fact, no one would probably want their talk page redirected to any image whatsoever. Sam Hocevar 22:58, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Ick. No, I wouldn't, Pabix. Guess I didn't read/remember the whole narrative. BradGad (Talk) 14:30, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • delete already. if it snuck through vfd before, that was because the vote was not properly advertised. there is no reason to host this image, it is a vandal-magnet. Link to external porn sites from Autofellatio, for all I care. Add to that its "dubious" (to put it gently) copyright status to make for a very clear case. dab (ᛏ) 08:33, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • Not "properly advertised" has never been a reason to resubmit an article to VfD before - why should it be relevent now? --Oldak Quill 22:54, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. The drawing does an adequate job, and if don't link to the picture on the page directly, we might as well put it under external links. There's copyright issues and I can't see any additional value the drawing doesn't have. Mgm|(talk) 09:19, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC)
    • An illustration is not the same as a photograph - further, "duplicate content" in items of media is not a valid reason for deletion. I concede that copyright concerns are valid. --Oldak Quill 23:00, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. Exactly what Mgm said. Filiocht 09:54, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. Unencyclopedic image. Not presently used in any articles, except for vandalism. --BM 11:33, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • It is presently linked to by the auto-fellatio article - the reason it is not included is due to an intervention by Jimbo. Vandalism is not a valid justification for deletion. --Oldak Quill 23:00, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. It's a vandal magnet. -- Arwel 13:08, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • Vandalism has never been an accepted reason to delete before - we have not deleted images of clitoris or penis because of it. I believe these had higher levels of vandalism when in limelight anyway, which this picture currently is. --Oldak Quill 23:00, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete A porn magazine may need to show such things, but an encyclopedia can just describe them. It has been used to spam my user page. Wincoote 13:15, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • Could one not similarly argue that images of forests are suitable for the "National Geographic" but not an encyclopedia which may just describe it? Do you not find it curious that many peoples pages are redirecting to it - indicating a single user or group of users being a purpetrator. We should not bow to vandals. --Oldak Quill 23:00, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Wikipedia is not a repository of pornography. Delete. - Mike Rosoft 13:20, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • Not a repository, but a repository is not one encyclopedic image. --Oldak Quill 23:00, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep. If this is removed the vandals will just substitute other sexually oriented pictures. I don't want mischievous kids to dictate what we can and cannot have on Wikipedia. The image is appropriate to the article. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 13:27, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete - probable copyvio. Snowspinner 14:01, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. I haven't really been involved in this before, although I'm aware of the history. I'm not a deletionist, and I am certainly not a prude. However, I don't believe images such as this are appropriate for an encyclopedia. If the delete passes, I believe any recreations may qualify for a speedy delete as a recreation of deleted content. --Deathphoenix 14:43, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • Why is this image not appropriate for an encyclopedia? It is demonstrating a valid sexual act, the fact that the act is marginal does not deem it "amoral", "unnatural" or "unsuitable" for wider public viewing. --Oldak Quill 23:11, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. Unlike Image:Flaccid and erect human penis.jpg, our previous contender for "Wikipedia-hosted image most often used in vandalism", this is overtly and intentionally pornographic, is of little encyclopedic value, and very similar images can be linked externally. —Korath (Talk) 14:47, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC)
    • How is it "overtly and intentionally pornographic"? It is encyclopaedic in that it visually demonstrates a sexual act. --Oldak Quill 23:11, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. Vandal magnet. Not used in any article. jni 14:49, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • Vandal magnetism is not a valid justification for deletion - it has not been before (see penis and clitoris) and is only occuring due to the image being in the limelight. --Oldak Quill 23:11, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. - Nunh-huh 16:22, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. Rhobite 16:26, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC)
  • I know there's a history here, but: this is almost unequivocally a copyvio. I refuse to believe there's still a debate about this. This is a recognizable gay porn actor, so unless he posted it himself (which is unlikely), it has to be scanned from a porno mag or copped from a website. Just because it's not actually the same image as the one somebody found on the splash page of an autofellatio porn site doesn't mean it's not copyvio -- for one thing, it's indisputably the same person. The fact is that one can upload absolutely anything and tag it as GFDL; calling it so doesn't automatically make it true. It's so overwhelmingly likely to be a copyvio that the burden of proof is on the "creator" to prove that it's not, not on anyone to prove that it is. Delete, delete, delete. Not because it's offensive, but because it has to be considered copyvio unless proven otherwise. Not vice versa. Bearcat 16:35, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. I sat out the previous votes, but the recent vandal spree convinced me. - BanyanTree 16:43, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • This vandal spree is due to the images position in the limelight - we should not concede content to a handful of vandals who circumvent policy. --Oldak Quill 23:11, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. Agree with Bearcat. grendel|khan 16:57, 2005 Mar 22 (UTC)
  • Delete. I just don't see the merit of including an image of suspect provenance which attracts vandals like flies when a drawing can provide all the explanation one might need without any of the offence one might take. If you say an image like this is necessary to illustrate the article, well, you might as well say a graphic photo of a murder victim is necessary to illustrate an article on murder. Worldtraveller 17:04, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • Why is the photograph more offensive than the illustration? Murder is not the same as a sexual act? First of all murder is inconsentual and inclusion of photos infringes on the family's privacy. --Oldak Quill 23:11, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete As we do not have any source for it we should assume it is (a) doctored, (b) a copy-vio (c) porn (the face tells that). This is apparently a known porn star; by ignoring the obvious copyvio issues the reputation of wikipedia as being serious about removing copyvio's is being trashed; people will assume copyvio is unimportant. I think the auto-fellation people need to check this article is not doctored. I always thought such an act was impossible and this photo does not convince me otherwise (haven't read the article). This was dumpedc on my user page and now sits on my hard disc which may be illegal here in Honduras. I avoid ALL porn sites, not only for lack of interest but because I do not want images on my hard disc. now some psychopath has trashed this, and with a probable copyvio porn image already at wikipedia. I feel violated by this; like someone committing an unwanted sexual act against me. I really believe the pro lobby muxt both prove it is not copyvio and give some suggestions of how to stop the very serious vandalism that this image is creating. A very angry --SqueakBox 17:10, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. This image is far more trouble than it's worth. In addition to shocking the vast majority of readers, it's almost certainly a copyvio. A less offensive image can provide the same amount of information in a more encyclopedic manner. Carbonite | Talk 17:31, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • Illustrations are inherently less encyclopaedic than photographs - why do you assume it is "shocking" to the majority of readers and how is this "shock" significant enough to warrant deletion. Keep in mind that a user has to actively click a link to see it. --Oldak Quill 23:11, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. Probable copyvio. —Xezbeth 17:35, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. CryptoDerk 18:09, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. I agree with everything Bearcat and Carbonite said on this. Jonathunder 18:15, 2005 Mar 22 (UTC)
  • Comment: The notion that this image is somehow unencyclopaedic is completely, utterly, indescriably ridiculous. IDIOTIC. The image is information and is QUITE appropriate for the article. That said I have concerns about its copyright status, so I'm obliged to vote to Delete. However, I'm very concerned about the rise of censorship here. I don't see a problem at ALL with having an image in Autofellatio, or even Goatse.cx. Our job here is to present information, be it explicit or nay. This image, while explicit and even offensive to some, is INFORMATION. BLANKFAZE | (что??) 18:25, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • What about images of headless hostages, then, from ogrish.com and similar? Explicit, disturbing, but as appropriate and informative as this one. There is nothing to be gained by having an offensive (to many) image where a drawing will be every bit as encyclopaedic and far less offensive. Worldtraveller 18:43, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • I don't have a problem with such images. There is plenty to be gained. A drawing cannot be as informative. In this case, though, if a copyright-free image can't be found, a drawing will suffice. BLANKFAZE | (что??) 19:06, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • let me just say: [1]. if you consider this a deletionist attitude, I cannot help you. Every image is "information", that's a very trivial fact, and shouldn't prevent us from making a judgement. dab (ᛏ) 20:05, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • I didn't say anything about deletionism; only that the notion that the image is somehow unencyclopaedic is wholly ridiculous. 20:36, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep if it isn't a copyvio. --Carnildo 18:47, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. What Bearcat and Carbonite said. Jayjg (talk) 19:41, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete Duk 19:49, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. Obvious copyright violation unless proven otherwise (the idea that it isn't is truly wholly ridiculous) and really doesn't add anything ("So THAT'S how someone sucks his own dick! I'm glad that picture was able to show me!"). --Calton | Talk 21:04, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete There are no photos on List of sex positions or similar articles. This is unnecessary and horrid. I'm not even certain it's accurate...
Smoddy (tgeck) 21:26, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • I am not entirely aware of what you mean by "unnecessary and horrid" and how this is bad enough to warrent censorship? How is it not accurate? --Oldak Quill 23:11, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. Probable copyvio. --cesarb 21:29, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. Please pretend I said something mildly amusing (that's all I got!). El_C 21:40, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete Not because it could be offensive, which is fine, but because it's a bad demonstration of the supposed "technique." Demi T/C 21:54, 2005 Mar 22 (UTC)
    • Surely it is better to have a photo than none at all? We may get a better photo of the technique eventually to replace it. --Oldak Quill 23:11, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete if it's a copyvio. Otherwise, keep until a better illustration can be found. Sam Hocevar 22:01, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. Pornography. You can't expect schools and so to start using Wikipedia with such vileness like this. Hedley 22:31, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • Christian fundamentalist schools may block Wikipedia due to evolution articles - this does not mean we need remove them. Wikipedia MUST not be influenced, in terms of content, by external factors. We provide information and the user should decide what to do with it. Signficiantly, this image is not in the article but must be accessed by clicking a link. If a user has gone to the article they are giving consent by clicking. --Oldak Quill 23:11, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Invalid listing and keep - it is imperative that we do not allow our values to interfere with content, this is completely unacceptable. The image is currently NOT inline, surely this is enough to satisfy the "save the children" lobby? --Oldak Quill 22:41, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep. The image plainly adds to the article more than a drawing. If you doubt that, read some of the votes above. There are suspicions that the image was digitally altered, and expressions of amazement that the act is possible. A drawing doesn't do anything to prove the feasibility of the act. I also don't buy the "it could be used in vandalism" for a second. Wikipedia is not vandalism-resistant because it's hard to vandalize it, it's vandalism-resistant because people remove vandalism as quickly as it is added. The only defensible grounds for deletion I see are its questionable copyright status. However, as it has not been demonstrated that the image is a copyright violation and the image would be hard to replace, I do not find that argument enough to deserve deletion. LizardWizard 23:22, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete.--Bishonen | Talk 00:09, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. Likely a copyvio and is adversely affecting the encyclopedia. - SimonP 00:32, Mar 23, 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep. Enough, already. How many times has this been listed on IFD now, anyway? dbenbenn | talk 04:01, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. mebbe this time it will go away. Davenbelle 04:12, Mar 23, 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment: The repeated claims that this is a copyright violation are unsubstantied. If you believe it's a copyright violation, prove it, and list it on the copyright problems page. Until such a time, voting that this is a copyright violation is inappropriate, and the votes that it is a copyright violation should be discounted. What keeps me from using this precedent to demand that any and all articles be deleted because they're obvious copyright violations, if I don't have to prove it? RickK 05:26, Mar 23, 2005 (UTC)
  • Message for Oldak Quill : You seem to forget this copyright problem. Furthermore pornography is completely illegal in some countries. Furthermore I think it completely discredits Wikipedia. When I saw that Wikipedia hosted porn images, I wondered seriously if I would contribute any more to a project like this. Does an encyclopaedia need an explicit photograph which can be totally illegal when the illustration can be largely sufficient? What is the encyclopedic goal of this image, why is it better than the schema? I would like to have a valid argument.
Furthermore, when you say that we must click to see the image, vandalism proves the contrary. I think this image has been deliberately uploaded to become a redirection arrival. You will say that it's not a reason. In this case, I ask for developers to block any redirections leading to an image as well as redirections leading to another Wikipedia.
Waiting for your answer, with regards.
Pabix ܀. 06:39, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I accept there is a copyright reason - and believe this is a valid reason to delete. What is not valid is allowing ones own views on what is "horrid" to delete - this is POV. What if the true biography of Kim Jung-Il is illegal in North Korea, should it be deleted? What if, in a dystopian future US, evolution was rendered illegal - should we delete these articles? Further, where does pornography become pornography - why is this intrinsically worse than a picture of an erect penis? Why does it "discredit Wikipedia"? If anything it shows that we consider NPOV an extremely important concept and do not allow prudish outlooks to influence our content. As I said, if it is a copyvio - delete it - but photographs are always far more informative and demonstrative than illustrations. What if someone "doubts the feasability" of this act? Yes, the image is currently being used to vandalise because it is in the limelight - so many users have it on their Contribution lists and it is in recent changes so often. The same occured when the penis and clitoris pictures were in the limelight - this soon died away. We should not bend to vandals and allow them to affect our content, this is imperative. --Oldak Quill 12:05, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • RickK has a point (post of 05:26). I came here to vote "delete", because I think that the disservice this picture does to Wikipedia is currently bigger than the benefit. However, after reading the votes here I must say there is a systemic bias towards unreflected delete votes. This is natural and understandable – most of the people who object to the picture will be very motivated to cast their vote here without bothering to read the discussion. This alone is a reason to support RickK's demand. On top of that, there are some people who do read the discussion on Image_talk:Autofellatio.jpg but still repeat the same, wrong arguments – such as "copyvio" (mostly reiterated by ClockworkSoul), stubbornly ignoring the counterarguments ("I would like to have a valid argument"). This sort of agitation makes me angry, and I feel it is my democratic duty to vote against it. I will think about it. — Sebastian 07:23, 2005 Mar 23 (UTC)
  • Can I answer? I went to the talk page, and there I noticed a vote of the User "SPUI" (keep). This is the name of the User who edited 15 user pages on the French Wikipedia. Can a developer check if the IP addresses are the same? And that's not the only user who did that. contributions of SPUI but another user named Cool Dood or something like that redirected our Main Page to this image twice before getting blocked.
Then I really wonder if there are here some other people who vote in order to be able to vandalize more and more on the other Wikipedias. I hope not. But seeing SPUI having voted for keeping this image before and then vandalizing pages thanks to his vote (supposing it's the same user) makes me angry. You will easily understand that.
I don't want Wikipedia to be classified as a pornographic site and since then, reserved to major people. If this image is used as target for redirections, it is a danger.
No, I don't have many arguments. Copyvio and vandalism. But those who vote to keep this image don't have many arguments too. I make a summary :
  • It can have an encyclopedic potential (argument for keeping)
  • Vandalism is no reason for removing
  • Image has no licence and is probably illegal on this site
  • It's used as target for redirections
  • It gives many people a bad image of Wikipedia (go on our Village Pump , if you speak French, some people, including sysops, are particularly angry with this image).
If you don't want this image to be removed, then I would like these redirections disabled by the wiki software.
Pabix ܀. 10:32, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
We are not here to slander other users - if that user is a problem then prove it to the Arb Com. As long as he/she is an unblocked, innocent user they may vote where they wish. Wikipedia won't be classified as a pornographic site due to a handful of informative images which are used to demonstrate a concept. Again, this is allowing ones cultural values to interfere with content. Further, vandalism is only occuring due to its position in the limelight. I also agree that software development could overcome our disagreements - but we should not delete until that point. --Oldak Quill 12:05, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep. From the list above, it looks like two major reasons that people are voting delete (apart from those who give no reason at all) are that 1) the image is probably copyvio and 2) they don't like the fact that someone is redirecting talk pages to it. For the first, this isn't the place to discuss it. If the question were its copyright status, this would be listed on WP:CP, but it isn't, so that really shouldn't be an issue here. For the second, its use in vandalism is no reason to delete an image — any image could be used in the same way, the issue is whether the image serves the article in which it is situated. If it weren't for Don't disrupt Wikipedia to illustrate a point I'd suggest redirecting everyone's user pages to Image:Flower.jpg and see if we can't get that deleted as well. For all we know it's a user who wants the image deleted doing the vandalism for precisely this reason. That alone should be enough to explain why that can't be a valid reason to delete. The real question: Is the article better off with the image (linked)? I say yes, so vote keep. — Asbestos | Talk 09:22, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. the article itself is not encyclopedic, at most this subject merits a dictionary reference, it is not as if it is an important social or cultural phenomena or has a body scientific or historical literature behind it.--Silverback 09:36, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • Why is it not encyclopaedic? Why is it any less encyclopaedic than anyother sexological artictle—indeed, any other aticle at all. Further, I believe this image is on Commons? Where it may be accessed by the Wiktionaries - so I am not sure what you are trying to achieve. Even if it is rendered unencylopaedic it should still be there in that other projects have use for it. Further, we have never used "important social or cultural phenomena" as an inclusion criterion before. It is, of course, encyclopaedic - it demonstrates a concept. --Oldak Quill 12:05, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep. This picture should be used to illustrate the article of the same name. (If it can be shown to be copyvio, then it should be removed under standard process.) Encyclopaedic knowledge is 'in context' for Wikipedia, and so it is appropriate for this image to be used. I find religion to be offensive, but sex not to be offensive. If this image is deleted, then would I be justified in asking for all religious iconography to be deleted? Noisy | Talk 10:46, Mar 23, 2005 (UTC)
    • no. that comment is misguided, we are not talking about concepts people may find offensive. nobody wants to delete the autofellatio article, or (almost nobody) the autofellatio drawing. It is the image itself that is offensive, as a porn pic, not the concept of autofellatio. Otherwise, we can start uploading goatse, and rotten.com imagery. If this image is kept, I will insist that goatse grace goatse.cx, and give up on WP for being a porn host run by trolls. dab (ᛏ)
      • I'm confused. I say the concept of sex isn't offensive, so I accept words and pictures relating to it. I don't find pornography offensive (or even readily definable). How then does your comment follow? The image is therefore offensive to your mind, but not to mine. You (in the impersonal sense, of course ;-) ) are now discriminating against me on the basis of standards that differ between us. I see Wikipedia as inclusive, whereas by your argument it excludes some communities. To the extent that it is inclusive, the limiting definition has to be the laws of the hosting location. If it is not inclusive (and thus embracing the "systemic bias" thingy that I've seen mentioned) then it has to make positive exclusions as part of editiorial policy. I (very personally) don't see how the aims of Wikipedia can be sustained using the consensus model, and think that in the end Jimbo will have to take on the formal role of Editor-in-Chief. Noisy | Talk 11:58, Mar 23, 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep. The image is relevant to the article, useful in the article and provides a function that can't be achieved with a drawing (showing the action described is possible). The benifits out-weigh any harm. Wikipedia is not censored for kids. Madd4Max 11:04, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment. It doesn't show anything. A skeptical man can, after having seen this photo, still think it is impossible to do it, because we dont see the complete body. There can be two men. Pabix ܀. 11:37, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • What nonsense - you can see his entire body, notice the angle at which the body (see the stomach) is bending. Where do you suppose another person would slot into this setup? I think it is quite clear that this is occuring, and that those saying it isn't are simply finding another reason to vote delete. I can, however, try and get another, more clear, photograph for you? --Oldak Quill 12:09, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment: I didn't realize that I had to qualify my vote for avoiding it being discounted, is this part of IfD policy? Incidentally, I did read the discussion before voting. I do see and can appreciate the rationality behind Noisy's keep vote, but my position is that the image's cost far outweigh its benefits, and it isn't particularly important; there's no harm in being pragmatic on something which, content-wise, is that minor (and it isn't even remotely as notable as clitoris, so I refuse from the outset to entertain counterarguments along those lines). We're writing and editing an encyclopedia here, not conducting an experiment as to the limits of free speech. Especially for something that, to quote Silverback (whom I still disagree with, the topic is not unencyclopedic) is "not an important social or cultural phenomena or has a body scientific or historical literature behind it." So now I trust that my Delete vote counts. El_C 11:08, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. Certainly, the auto-fellatio article can be given a simple artistic illustration image rather than a porn pic. The pic is nice to look at, but it should go. :) . — Stevie is the man! Talk | Contrib 11:19, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep. This has survived IFD before, and no new reasons have been given to delete it, except that now it has been used in vandalism, which is no reason at all. The image is useful in the context for which it uploaded. 199 11:28, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep. It is encyclopedic. The prudish, nannying instinct of the Christian Right should not be the inspiration for deleting this image. The accusation that WP will become a porn host run by trolls because this image is not deleted is a laughably naive slippery slope argument. As a Jewish, homosexual, communist pornographer I suppose I would say that. --Mrfixter 11:44, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep, vandalism must be solved with technical means. Prude people must solve their problems themselves. Marc Mongenet 12:21, 2005 Mar 23 (UTC)
  • Delete. Hégésippe Cormier 13:42, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

March 23


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