Talk:Russia

Discrimination

@DayakSibiriak, you add Some publications point to the influence of discrimination against ethnic Russians in a number of post-Soviet states on Russian foreign policy based on 1998 source, right after the paragraph discussing Russia has also continued using subversive tactics to increase perceptions of its geopolitical power in its rival countries;[325][293] including cyberwarfare, disinformation campaigns,[326] sabotage attacks,[327] assassination attempts,[328] airspace violations,[329] electoral interferences[330] and nuclear saber-rattling. Composed as such, it may appear to the reader that the latermentioned recent developments could be justified with the discrimination, which may be or may be not the case, but we definitely cannot state so using 1998 source. Please observe the return to the consensus version [1] performed by @TylerBurden and reach the consensus for your edits first. ManyAreasExpert (talk) 19:38, 7 May 2025 (UTC)

The point is not where in the section to place about discrimination or that my source is from 1998 or that I cited only one source. Everyone silently understands that for the sake of correctness it is better not to include in the main article about Russia the recognition by some authoritative authors of discrimination against Russians in certain states. That's all. And this will be immediately resolved even if I cite more sources. I feel sorry for doing monkey job. DayakSibiriak (talk) 05:22, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

Well monkeys aside, this edit sure was an interesting one, @Mellk.

Since you are accusing the content of being WP:SYNTH, let me give you the relevant portions.

RAND: "In the Baltics, Ukraine, and other nearby states, the Kremlin aims to drive wedges between ethnic Russian or Russian-speaking populations and their host governments, NATO, and the European Union"

Rondeli Foundation "However, little attention has been paid to Russia’s ethno-political leverage, which it uses against European societies, especially those with significant Russian-speaking minorities. The attempts to use the Russian-speaking groups against those societies stems from Russian propaganda mechanisms that draw negative images of the countries of settlement and, in response, encourages polarization. This is something the Baltic states have been experiencing and are trying to develop coping mechanisms against."

How this in good faith can be labelled synthesized content for the sentence "The status of ethnic Russians in post-Soviet states, including their use in Russian propaganda, has also been a point of contention in relations between Russia and some of those countries" is beyond me, and is reminiscent of when just a couple months ago (visible in archive 22) the same editor claimed sources describing Russia as becoming increasingly totalitarian were in fact not doing so. TylerBurden (talk) 16:42, 10 May 2025 (UTC)

I explained this in the edit summary. The sources you added are about propaganda campaigns targeted at Russian speakers with the aim of destabilization or shaping their opinions, for example through Russian-language media ("Russian-speaking communities have little to no knowledge of the local languages and have weak social connections with titular groups, thus information sources for them are often uniquely Russian"). The other sources are about the issue of the treatment of ethnic Russians being brought up when it comes to diplomatic relations with the "near abroad" (former Soviet Union) i.e. humanitarian policies. Propaganda campaigns are already mentioned.

You claim in the edit summary that I am removing content I simply don't like when you have now removed this three times recently, even though it is well-sourced. You now dismiss these sources as portraying the "Russian state being their saviour". Did you even read the sources? I also ask because you only provided a quote from the summary of the RAND report, not the report itself. The first source was published by the Library of Congress and is authoritative, the other two are journal articles from Policy Perspectives and Journal of Eurasian Studies. Although it clearly shows how you approach the topic. The fact that sources have covered this over the past 30 years shows that this is a notable aspect of FSU/CIS diplomatic relations as a whole.

Therefore, I do not see the issue with briefly mentioning that humanitarian policies are often used, without accusing other states/entities of pursuing a policy of discrimination or mistreatment. This does not belong in the high-level overview. Kundu says: "For Russia, the major interest in the FSU is to protect the interest of millions of ethnic Russians living in these states and maintain considerable influence via a big brotherly attitude towards them" -- this is describing the policy in diplomatic relations with the FSU. We can also mention that this is done in order to maintain influence in the region. Since this section is only an overview, this should only be general. Mellk (talk) 18:26, 10 May 2025 (UTC)

Yes, the section is not only about the last decade, and especially the last few hot years, when propaganda also takes place. We are talking about Russia's elementary attention in its foreign policy to the situation of the Russians in new neighboring states since 1991. There are serious English-language sources (there are also academic Russian-language ones) of the 1990s-2020s about this and a deleted text about this. DayakSibiriak (talk) 22:53, 10 May 2025 (UTC)

It is unclear why the following text was removed on May 10, even after the words about discrimination were removed from the main matter. Without this addition, the description of contemporary foreign polucy is incomplete. And don't abuse the right to send editors to the talk page if the edit is justified.

The status of ethnic Russians in post-Soviet states has also been a point of contention in relations between Russia and some of those countries.[1][2][3]

1. Curtis, Glenn E., ed. (1998). "Chapter 8. Foreign Relations". Russia: A Country Study. Area handbook series. Library of Congress, Federal Research Division (1st ed.). Washington, DC: U.S. Government Printing Office. pp. 429–486. ISBN 0-8444-0866-2. Archived from the original on 2021-06-11. The problem of discrimination and ethnic violence against the 25 million ethnic Russians living in the new states was a growing concern in relations with several of the former Soviet republics.
2. Kolstø, Pål (1 July 2011). "Beyond Russia, becoming local: Trajectories of adaption to the fall of the Soviet Union among ethnic Russians in the former Soviet Republics". Journal of Eurasian Studies. 2 (2): 153–163. doi:10.1016/j.euras.2011.03.006. ISSN 1879-3665. This is indeed true, Russia does insist that the country has a right and a duty to pose as the protector of all Russians in the so-called 'near abroad'.
3. Kundu, Nivedita Das (2007). "Russia and the Former Soviet States: Dynamics of Relations". Policy Perspectives. 4 (1): 49–59. ISSN 1812-1829. For Russia, the major interest in the FSU is to protect the interest of millions of ethnic Russians living in these states and maintain considerable influence via a big brotherly attitude towards them. DayakSibiriak (talk) 06:07, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

I would probably add something like "the Russian government has used such humanitarian policies to maintain its influence in the 'near abroad'". Mellk (talk) 04:28, 21 May 2025 (UTC)

The sources clearly talk about ethnic Russians, although I think it would be more accurate to talk about Russian-speaking people. Just as we write in Wiki about Israel's protection of ethnic Jews or Druze abroad, so we should write about Russia's policy of protecting Russians who have found themselves in new states. I am ready to abandon the assertions about discrimination at this point, perhaps there are few sources and the time has not yet come for a non-partisan encyclopedic presentation. DayakSibiriak (talk) 06:33, 21 May 2025 (UTC)

We should consider more recent sources. Some are collected at Disinformation in the Russian invasion of Ukraine#Donbas genocide allegations - In his announcement of the invasion, Putin baselessly claimed that Ukraine was carrying out genocide in the mainly Russian-speaking Donbas region.[79] He said the purpose of Russia's "military operation" was to "protect the people" of the Russian-controlled breakaway republics of Donetsk and Luhansk. ... and so on.

There are more: Routledge Handbook of Russian Politics and Society - Google Books ... In doing so, the Putin regime escalated the low intensity conflict in Donbas into a war, justified both in terms of the “demilitarisation” of Ukraine and the defence of the Russian- speaking populations, who were allegedly the victims of discrimination and even genocide in Ukraine. ...
Russia Great Power, Weakened State - Google Books The feeling of being contested on its periphery makes Russia anxious. In turn, its actions have provoked anxiety in others, primarily in neighboring former Soviet republics with significant ethnic Russian or Russian-speaking populations, such as the Baltic states, Belarus, Ukraine, and, to a lesser extent, Kazakhstan, or even those with non- Russian minorities, such as Georgia. The defense of these populations served as the pretext for Russia’s annexation of the Crimean Peninsula in 2014 and the full-scale invasion of Ukraine in 2022. ...
As for the Russian strategy of contesting post-Soviet borders, Russian officials’ justifications have varied, from the right of popular self- determination, to the defense of Russians and Russian‑speakers abroad as a strategic interest. ...
State identity and the place of ethnic Russians in it have been further complicated by the strategies Moscow has developed to maintain its influence in the “near abroad.” In gradually implying that ethnic Russians living abroad and, even more broadly, Russian-speaking populations could potentially (re)join Russia, the regime has blurred the relationship between the civic nature of the Russian Federation and the notion of Russianness. (my bold)
Yeltsin fought an uphill battle to delay the Baltic states’ accession to NATO over the fate of Russian minorities in Estonia and Latvia, who were the objects of discrimination, launching the idea that Russian-speaking populations abroad should be placed under the protection of Russia.
Russia's Approach to Post-Conflict Reconstruction - Google Books ... This ultimately leads to any for mer Soviet state with Russian-speaking populations being seen as fair game for Moscow’s intervention. To this end, Russia upholds the so-called Medvedev thesis, which states that it has the right to defend the lives and dignity of ethnic Russians wherever they may be and that it recognises particular regions as holding unique significance and interests for Moscow (Riegl & Doboš, 2018). ... ManyAreasExpert (talk) 10:07, 21 May 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for the quotes. However, the sources of recent years are too politicized, they are not about Russia and Russians, but about criticism of the current government. We are writing an encyclopedic article about Russia.

I once again urge you not to reduce everything to sources about the war of recent years and propaganda. Problems with the situation of Russian speakers in the near abroad have existed since 1991, before any Putin, sources from those years talk about this. The article should also talk about Russia's normal concerns about this after the collapse of the USSR and about the use of the problem by the Putin regime in recent years. One does not cancel the other out, the sources talk about different things. DayakSibiriak (talk) 13:00, 21 May 2025 (UTC)

This is the primary article for the Russian Federation, if you want to talk about pre-1991 this isn't really the place. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 14:17, 22 May 2025 (UTC)

About post-1991.

The quoted above 1998 reference book Russia. A country study by the US Federal Research Division is for me an example of a balanced academic presentation of the foreign policy of Russia. Now the Wikipedia article deliberately contains a selection of accusatory publications of an anti-Russian nature. Although I am not a resident of this country, I do not accept the use of Wikipedia for party purposes. DayakSibiriak (talk) 08:15, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

Out of date and dubious economic statistics

This article says “Its social security system comprised roughly 16% of the total GDP in 2015.” and in the infobox estimates GDP for 2025.

How are those useful for the reader? From https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2025/04/27/vladimir-putins-money-machine-is-sputtering we can see that economists really have little idea what is going on in Russia.

Can we at least stick to economic statistics for 2022, 2023 and 2024? And if those do not exist then I think it is better to say nothing here but to put the various estimates into economy of Russia where there is more space to explain assumptions and put alternative estimates.

What do you think? Chidgk1 (talk) 11:20, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

Gini coefficient

The Gini coefficient figure is from 2020, I think it should be updated. CmsrNgubaneArise (talk 08:51, 6 June 2025 (UTC)( Blocked sockpuppet of CmsrNgubane, see investigation)

Good idea - go ahead if you have a reliable source Chidgk1 (talk) 18:29, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

Forex reserve ranking

@Swoonfed I think that it is not worth correcting the ranking because it is too much of a simplification. I think better to remove the ranking, because they are spending the forex they can access but another part of it is frozen (see https://www.brookings.edu/articles/what-is-the-status-of-russias-frozen-sovereign-assets/) This can be better explained in a more detailed article. Perhaps Nabiullina is more valuable than the forex so should be mentioned instead? Chidgk1 (talk) 15:32, 7 June 2025 (UTC)