Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Africa

WP:DSAFRICA

This is a collection of discussions on the deletion of articles related to Africa. It is one of many deletion lists coordinated by WikiProject Deletion sorting. Anyone can help maintain the list on this page.

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Further information

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See also: Wikipedia:WikiProject Africa

Africa

Sid'Ahmed Ould Mohamedou

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Subject does not meet the WP:SPORTSCRIT because of a lack of WP:SIGCOV. The current references are all primary, and a check for sources at the Eastmain MENA database came up empty. PROD was already declined so AfD it is. Let'srun (talk) 22:08, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Olympics, and Sport of athletics. Let'srun (talk) 22:08, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Africa-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 22:56, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails WP:SPORTSCRIT, only database sources provided. LibStar (talk) 00:11, 13 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - No IRS SIGCOV found. Let me also say that six different aliases being listed in the article should raise some major alarm-bells about whether the data is correct here. FOARP (talk) 05:49, 13 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Oumar Samba Sy

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Subject does not meet the WP:SPORTSCRIT due to a lack of WP:SIGCOV. PROD was declined so taking this to AFD. Let'srun (talk) 22:07, 10 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople and Olympics. Let'srun (talk) 22:07, 10 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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Keep. We need to use common sense. Sy was the first Olympian in the history of Mauritania. He was the first flagbearer, the second flagbearer, and a medalist at major international competitions such as the African Championships. That's actually surprising for his country, which has historically been very poor in international sports. Being the first and second flagbearer as well as the first Mauritanian Olympian, and a continental medalist, is a historic accomplishment that is virtually certain to have been covered significantly. If there was any sportsperson covered at all in the 1980s in the nation, it would be him. We have not checked even a single newspaper in the history of the country; in fact, much of their media today remains offline. But that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Its common sense that he would have been covered for his historic achievements in his country's sporting history. I'll see if I can contact any Mauritanian newspapers to get further information on him. But either way, I'd like to note that notability is a guideline: Editors should generally follow it, though exceptions may apply. Does deleting one of the greatest sportspeople in the history of a nation really improve Wikipedia? I don't think so. BeanieFan11 (talk) 23:19, 10 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I'd also note that WP:BLP is important to note here as well. We have zero secondary sources for this subject, and the burden of evidence that this subject received coverage is on the editors advocating to keep the article. So far, zero IRS have been supplemented, but I am open to reconsidering should it be provided. Let'srun (talk) 01:41, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - As has been discussed many times now, there is no evidence that Mauritanians actually care that much about their country's performance at the Olympic games. Indeed, there are a number of indicators that they don't, not least of which was the lack of any coverage of the 2016, 2020, and 2024 Olympics by the state news agency.

We have also now discussed multiple times the media environment in Mauritania in the 1980s: it was a dictatorship where the only national press was a couple of heavily censored state-controlled newspapers serving an audience of fewer than ~700k literate Mauritanians. The widespread sports coverage that US-based commentators who have never lived in a dictatorship seem to imagine as being universal did not exist in the Mauritania of the 1980's.

We have also discussed the ways in which the "common sense" analysis that some want to apply is just the "every Olympian is notable" standard that was rejected in WP:NSPORTS2022 restated in different words. That applies here also - being the first participant is also a participation-based standard, being a standard bearer of a small team is also a participation-based standard.

Beannie repeatedly attacks the lack of searching of offline databases: the answer is for him to go and do it. I have gone far beyond the requirements of WP:BEFORE by searching Eastmain's MENA database in both Roman characters and Arabic. I also searched The Historical Dictionary of Mauritania - a book of several hundred pages which, if the subject of this article were even nearly as notable as made out above would almost certainly mention him, but doesn't.

The subject of this article simply isn't notable based on the evidence we have to hand. We should not have an article about them until we can show (not just assert: show) that they are notable by finding the missing SIGCOV. FOARP (talk) 13:06, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

North Korea is a dictatorship, yet they still cover their athletes significantly. Iran's media is state-controlled, yet they still cover their athletes significantly. Niger is controlled by a military dictatorship, yet I still found coverage of their top athletes from recently. I have never seen a country that didn't cover sports. Never. Whether Mauritania's news agency has covered the Olympics is not what matters: what matters is whether there is coverage of sports at all in Mauritania, which there is. If there was any sportsperson at all covered in Mauritania in the 1980s, it would be Sy. The Olympics specifically may not very well-followed, but apparently wrestling is popular there, and he has the greatest African Games finish for his country ever (they've never medaled, he came fourth). Being chosen for the honor of flagbearer is not "participation-based" nor an "every Olympian is notable argument", nor is being a medalist at major international tournaments either of those arguments. The "MENA database" contains no papers even close to where Sy is from. Nor does that dictionary mention sports at all. I do not have the ability to travel to Mauritania to search archives. We don't need to be ridiculous and require that for him to have an article. Notability is a guideline best treated with common sense (per notability); it is very obvious he is notable. In what way does deleting this – the greatest African Games finisher for Mauritania ever in any sport – improve the encyclopedia? BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:01, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

"If there was any sportsperson at all covered in Mauritania in the 1980s, it would be Sy" - I'm going to say it definitely wouldn't be, because the national sport of Mauritania is not wrestling, it's football. But this requires not just blindly insisting that everywhere is like Delaware. FOARP (talk) 16:48, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Per BeanieFan11, the greatest African Games finisher for Mauritania ever in any sport - there will be coverage. RossEvans19 (talk) 17:34, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Where is the coverage? Let'srun (talk) 18:04, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
According to Newspapers.com, there are 52 hits for Oumar Samba Sy, however I don't have a subscription to Newspapers.com and can't check :) RossEvans19 (talk) 22:44, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I have one and looked before nominating. All of the hits are merely results listings. Let'srun (talk) 23:05, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The thing is that the total number of African papers on Newspapers.com is zero. Coverage would be in Mauritanian newspapers. BeanieFan11 (talk) 23:12, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
You mean the two government-owned, heavily-censored national newspapers that operated at the time? The ones the modern versions of which don’t cover the Olympics?

And let’s not forget that WP:PAGEDECIDE is clear that we shouldn’t have a page without the coverage to write one. FOARP (talk) 04:20, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to List of flag bearers for Mauritania at the Olympics as Wikipedia:ATD. Anxioustoavoid (talk) 21:34, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
That list itself has a major WP:LISTN problem. Just as there’s no evidence that having been a standard-bearer for Mauritania indicates notability, there’s also no evidence that Mauritanian standard-bearers as a group are notable. EDIT: Boldly merged to Mauritania at the Olympics per WP:PAGEDECIDE/WP:LISTN. Please feel free to revert and discuss if you disagree. FOARP (talk) 06:14, 13 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete despite WP:MUSTBESOURCES arguments being presented, this article fails WP:SPORTSCRIT. LibStar (talk) 02:54, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Aristelle Luise Yog-Atouth

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Fails WP:GNG and lacks WP:SIGCOV. Contested prod. The added references do not meet GNG or represent significant coverage. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 02:22, 10 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Women, Football, Africa, France, and Turkey. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 02:22, 10 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - no significant coverage. (Of added sources: source 5 - database entry, S6, S7, S10 - some kind of standard game update/PR notice with no significant info on this person, S8 - voting results, S9 - rankings, none of which show WP:SIGCOV.) A search didn't turn up anything much better; just a lot of stats. GoldRomean (talk) 02:40, 10 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Lithuania, and Ukraine. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 04:16, 10 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Giant Snowman 18:36, 10 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:39, 10 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – Per above. Svartner (talk) 21:04, 10 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Waste Management and the Circular Economy: A Comparative Perspective with Emphasis on Africa and the EU

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Reads like an LLM-generated attempt at a student assignment. I haven’t checked the journal refs yet but the news refs are 404/hallucinated. ClaudineChionh (she/her · talk · email · global) 08:43, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Environment, Africa, and Europe. ClaudineChionh (she/her · talk · email · global) 08:44, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. AI-generated essay slop. The journal articles are real, but the article creator has also created multiple pages about the lead author of those studies: Draft:Izuchukwu Obani Research on Environmental Sustainability in Nigeria and Draft:Izuchukwu Precious Jideofor Osemudiamen Obani. So this is also part of an attempt to promote this particular researcher. MCE89 (talk) 12:07, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per above. Absolutely no place for nonexistent hallucinated references on WP. Frankly this should be grounds for a speedy deletion. WeirdNAnnoyed (talk) 12:30, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete It's an AI-generated essay with fake sources. Opm581^{(talk | he/him)} 09:32, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Princewill Chimezie Richards

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Fails notability guidelines, as notability is not inherited from the Biafra Nations League. Searches fail to indicate notability of the individual aside from serving as a spokesman for the group. In lieu of deletion, the redirect could be restored or relevant content can be merged to the aforementioned article. Jellyfish (mobile) (talk) 14:19, 3 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Military, and Africa. Jellyfish (mobile) (talk) 14:19, 3 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

If anyone sees this, would they be able to move the comment on the talk page (which I'm assuming is a keep vote) here? I'm unable to easily on my phone. Thanks! Jellyfish (mobile) (talk) 13:51, 4 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Info - Note to closer for soft deletion: This nomination has had limited participation and falls within the standards set for lack of quorum. There are no previous AfD discussions, undeletions, or current redirects and no previous PRODs have been located. This nomination may be eligible for soft deletion at the end of its 7-day listing.

Logs: 2025-06 ✍️ create

--Cewbot (talk) 00:08, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 12:30, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Colonial order of chivalry

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I couldn't find sources discussing colonial orders of chivalry as a group like this article aims to do, seems to fail GNG/NLIST. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 10:09, 1 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Awards-related deletion discussions. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 10:09, 1 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: History, Africa, Asia, and Europe. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 17:49, 1 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 14:10, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Order of chivalry. Wholly unsourced and without adding almost anything on top of Order of chivalry, I think this is just a matter of WP:NOPAGE regardless of notability. MarioGom (talk) 15:20, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
My concern with a redirect would be that I think the concept of a distinct category of "colonial orders of chivalry" existing is not reflected in reliable sources at all. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 16:24, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
After looking for further sources, I'm leaning towards delete too. MarioGom (talk) 17:05, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Africa Proposed deletions

Evans Brima Gbemeh (via WP:PROD on 11 September 2023)

Algeria

Angola

Botswana

Cameroon

Central African Republic

Democratic Republic of the Congo

Egypt

Ben Ali (wrestler)

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A non-notable WP:LUGSTUBS, only coverage is in database entries like Olympedia. Does not satisfy WP:SPORTBASIC. Thepharoah17 (talk) 18:36, 7 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Olympics and Wrestling. Thepharoah17 (talk) 18:36, 7 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople and Egypt. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 18:45, 7 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - The incredibly generic name hardly helps, but I draw a negative for searches on the Eastmain MENA database that includes a number of Egyptian newspapers from the period. FOARP (talk) 13:10, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Unfortunately, I was unable to find the requisite WP:SIGCOV to meet the WP:GNG. Let'srun (talk) 15:54, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Mahmoud Ezzat (boxer)

AfDs for this article:

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A non-notable Olympian, only coverage is in database entries like Olympedia. Does not satisfy WP:SPORTBASIC. Thepharoah17 (talk) 18:34, 7 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Boxing and Olympics. Thepharoah17 (talk) 18:34, 7 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople and Egypt. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 18:44, 7 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
It is invalid to say there is 'no coverage except in Olympedia' when the article literally ~~links~~ cites a news article about him! BeanieFan11 (talk) 21:05, 7 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
It cites it. It doesn’t actually link it. Thepharoah17 (talk) 21:15, 7 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
So? It still exists. BeanieFan11 (talk) 21:16, 7 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Just a note that the previous AfD for this subject was in 2021, before WP:NSPORTS2022 changed the notability guidelines for Olympians. Let'srun (talk) 23:22, 7 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Boxing at the 1936 Summer Olympics – Flyweight where his name was mentioned. Corresponding article on Egyptian Arabic Wikipedia is just an unsourced dumping ground. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 13:41, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Pinging our Egypt Olympics expert, @Canadian Paul:, as Ezzat is very likely notable, given that we know stories were written on him. BeanieFan11 (talk) 17:32, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Since the reference given was written the day after his death, it's likely an obituary. Doesn't seem to be enough to meet WP:GNG. Leaning towards redirect, but will wait to see if more sources are found. He won zero fights at the Olympics. Papaursa (talk) 23:54, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
It could be of use though if it was independently written by a staff writer versus it being provided to the newspaper by the family. Let'srun (talk) 02:19, 9 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I'll add that "The death of boxer Mahmoud Ezzat, a former Olympian" does not sound like a family-supplied obit. BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:08, 9 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep As has already been noted, the statement that the "only coverage is in database entries like Olympedia" was incorrect, as the obituary was present before the nomination was made. The obituary is a staff-written one provided outside of the normal obituary section and is not a family one. Additionally, just a quick search through Al-Ahram shows that he won nearly every national title in his weight class from 1931 through 1940 and there is plenty of coverage of it. Canadian Paul 19:40, 10 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, per the obit, Canadian Paul, and the SIGCOV in Olympedia which notes he won the Egyptian national boxing championship freaking 10-straight years. He's clearly notable. BeanieFan11 (talk) 19:53, 10 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: Per Canadian Paul, this subject has sufficient WP:SIGCOV. Let'srun (talk) 22:16, 10 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep – Per above, notable enough to have his death covered by Al-Ahram. Svartner (talk) 23:52, 10 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep With a record like that, it is reasonable to believe there's significant coverage of him. If anyone can actually provide additional references, I would strongly recommend they be put in the article. Papaursa (talk) 03:25, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Sharif Malikah

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Nothing to establish notability—citations appear to be non-notable news websites. M.A.Spinn (talk) 22:41, 27 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Authors, Poetry, Medicine, and Egypt. M.A.Spinn (talk) 22:41, 27 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Comment it looks to me like the author is probably notable, but that the transliteration of his name, also spelled "Sherif Meleka" and other ways! is giving us issues. His novel Suleiman's Ring is reviewed I think here[1](I don't have access), here[2](last page) and here[3]. --Jahaza (talk) 23:21, 27 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hopefully someone can search in Arabic? The Yale University library, among other places seem to be collecting his books[4].Jahaza (talk) 23:48, 27 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The first point re: the reception of his novel seems worth a double check. Given that Yale has 14.9 million volumes in its holdings however I do not think that is sufficient to establish notability. M.A.Spinn (talk) 23:51, 27 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Maryland-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 04:11, 28 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Toadspike [Talk] 22:43, 3 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Jahaza Have you come to a conclusion on Malikah's notability? Toadspike [Talk] 22:43, 3 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Extraordinary Writ (talk) 02:39, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Egypt Proposed deletions

Arab American Vehicles (via WP:PROD on 3 November 2024)
East Mediterranean Gas Company (via WP:PROD on 3 November 2024)
Egyptalum (via WP:PROD on 3 November 2024)
eSpace (via WP:PROD on 3 November 2024)
Herrawi Group (via WP:PROD on 3 November 2024)
Ibrachy & Dermarkar (via WP:PROD on 3 November 2024)
Mo'men (via WP:PROD on 3 November 2024)
Olympic Group (via WP:PROD on 3 November 2024)
Seoudi Group (via WP:PROD on 3 November 2024)
Shotmed Paper Industries (via WP:PROD on 3 November 2024)
Corona (confectioner) (via WP:PROD on 3 November 2024)
Starworld (via WP:PROD on 3 November 2024)
Bahgat Group (via WP:PROD on 2 November 2024)

Ethiopia

ANTHM

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Fails Wp:GNG, Wp:MUSICIAN, and lack of WP:SIGCOV. Zuck28 (talk) 20:31, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Artists, Poetry, Music, Ethiopia, Germany, Russia, United States of America, New York, and Texas. Zuck28 (talk) 20:31, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Shifera Tamru Aredo

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No evidence of this marathon runner receiving the sufficient amount of coverage to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTBASIC. JTtheOG (talk) 23:28, 1 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Sport of athletics, and Ethiopia. JTtheOG (talk) 23:28, 1 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Like the nom, I was unable to find the necessary WP:SIGCOV for the WP:SPORTSCRIT to be met here. Let'srun (talk) 00:12, 3 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, I found SIGCOV, for example in the Honolulu Star-Advertiser: [5]. I added this to the article, added wikilinks, and cleaned it up to fix some of the issues. Subject meets NATH prong 1 as well for top-five finishes at Chicago which is a World Marathon Major. --Habst (talk) 15:06, 3 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Habst

Thank you for including the new coverage and cleaning up the article. I've also added his 2025 achievement. Wieditor25 (talk) 21:05, 5 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:49, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: Added new content - his 2018 Chuncheon Marathon victory to the article, which received significant coverage from Nate News and documented by World Athletics. He has also podium finishes at major international races, including Seoul and Dubai 2025 (also newly added). — Wieditor25 (talk) 19:48, 9 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Kinde Atanaw

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I am unable to find sufficient in-depth coverage of this marathon runner to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTBASIC. All I found were routine race reports like 1 and 2. I tried tagging the article and engaging the creator on their talk page; both of my edits were reverted. JTtheOG (talk) 23:21, 1 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Sport of athletics, and Ethiopia. JTtheOG (talk) 23:21, 1 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, it seems like this dispute between the article creator and the nominator needs to be settled separately but the article topics can stand on their own. Subject is covered, I improved the article with a picture and some new sources such as [6]. Some of these reports go in-depth about the subject with analysis which crosses the boundary out of routine IMO. I have no issue with keeping tags until the article is improved further, but I don't think deletion is a solution for this 2:03 marathoner. --Habst (talk) 14:08, 3 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Routine, local event coverage comprising two sentences and a quote is nowhere close to SIGCOV, let alone GNG. JoelleJay (talk) 06:58, 4 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@JoelleJay

I strongly disagree with your characterization of the coverage as "routine, local event coverage." WP:GNG doesn't demand a strict biographical deep dive into details like his training or extensive personal bio. Instead, the provided sources offer significant coverage that clearly exceeds mere mentions.

His 2:03:51 Valencia win was a course record and the third-fastest marathon debut in history. Reports were not just simple result listing but they analyzed his 'stunning' performance (WP:GNG's requirement) and his consistent top finishes in World Marathon Majors further solidify his notability under WP:SPORTBASIC.
This nomination (and others) appears to stem more from a prior content dispute regarding a deletion tag (which I did not agree with) than the subject's actual notability. Wieditor25 (talk) 04:51, 5 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The above article contains barely two sentences of independent coverage of him, strictly in the context of this one marathon. That is not even close to the level of detail expected for SIGCOV; while there is some nuance, "mere mention" is not the threshold above which coverage automatically becomes "significant", just as "book-length treatment" is not the minimum requirement for significance.
While the other sources do contain some more details reporting a couple other results, AFAICT they are all also either limited to twoish sentences, which is not enough, and/or are non-independent republications of World Athletics or other event organizer press releases.[7][8] GNG requires multiple sources each containing IRS SIGCOV and additionally there must be SUSTAINED coverage. GNG has nothing to do with value judgments like "stunning"; it is about the amount and depth of coverage. SPORTSBASIC requires active citation to a GNG-contributing source in addition to the subject meeting GNG, regardless of whether they meet a sport-specific criterion. JoelleJay (talk) 16:45, 5 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@JoelleJay

Thanks for your response. Again, I strongly disagree with your assessment.

My view stands that the subject's article clearly meets Wikipedia's notability guidelines.

These sources aren't "barely two sentences" of local coverage; they show significant depth:
Track & Field News didn't just mention the Valencia win; they analyzed it, calling it "stunning" and the "third-fastest marathon debut in history." That's solid, independent analysis.

LetsRun.com specifically reported on the subject's COVID withdrawal from the 2021 London Marathon. This shows they are newsworthy beyond just results.

Noticiascv.com includes a direct quote from the subject, indicating actual journalistic effort, not a simple listing.

These are genuine, independent pieces establishing significant coverage.

Also the assertion that there is a lack of "sustained coverage" contradicts the available evidence. The subject has consistently appeared in big events over several years:
Winning the 2019 Valencia Marathon (historic debut).

Being part of the elite field for the 2021 London Marathon, with their withdrawal being a notable news item.

4th at 2022 London Marathon.

10th at 2022 Boston Marathon.

Being a featured entrant and top contender in previews for high-profile events like the 2024 Mumbai Marathon and Shanghai Marathon.

Also included in the elite field for the 2025 Hamburg Marathon, further demonstrating continued relevance."Brigid Kosgei and Amos Kipruto head Sunday's Haspa Marathon Hamburg's strongest ever field". Race News Service (rrm.com). 2025-04-22. Retrieved 2025-06-05.

Hence, the subject meets WP:GNG via significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent, and hence WP:SPORTBASIC. Wieditor25 (talk) 18:56, 5 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Wieditor25, while I agree that the case for deletion isn't strong in this instance and I'm thankful for your contributions, I don't really agree with this line of argument. For example the LetsRun.com piece is a republished press release, so it isn't the strongest example we have of coverage like the Noticias piece is.

As an aside, it looks to me like parts of these comments were generated with an LLM due to the bolding and lack of wikilinks. If you are using an LLM like ChatGPT to generate comments, I think that should be disclosed clearly. It's generally better to focus on the strongest pieces of coverage and make arguments that are linked to specific policies and guidelines. --Habst (talk) 20:31, 5 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

T&FN: Two sentences is not SIGCOV and the analysis is not even close to in-depth. Again, value judgments like "stunning" are irrelevant to coverage and in fact ought to be considered primary opinions as they would be unusable without attribution.
Let's Run: Press release.
Noticias:
The Valencia Trinidad Alfonso EDP Marathon, [...], has become the sixth fastest in the world thanks to the time achieved by athlete Kinde Atanaw Alayew , who stopped the clock at 2:03:51, a new record for the event. [...] Aleyew crossed the finish line 40 seconds faster than last year's Leul Gebresilase (2:04:31), setting a new record for history.
That is the entirety of the secondary coverage. Quotes from the subject do not count towards GNG as they are not independent or secondary.

Your LLM has totally mangled the definition of WP:SUSTAINED coverage. Any admin would be well within their right to collapse your AI comments here, per policy. JoelleJay (talk) 00:49, 6 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Get that AI garbage out of here. If you don't know enough about guidelines to formulate an argument by yourself, then you shouldn't be making an argument at all. Wikipedia isn't run by robots. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 01:25, 6 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Taking a step back here, what are the two sentences you've found? I count about nine in the Noticias piece alone, noting that only one piece of SIGCOV is required to meet WP:SPORTCRIT:

1. "Kinde Atanaw Alayew convierte al Maratón Valencia en el sexto más rápido del mundo"

2. "Kinde Atanaw y Roza Dereje, que firmaron dos nuevos récords de la prueba, se proclaman vencedores de la 39ª edición de la prueba."

3. "El Maratón Valencia Trinidad Alfonso EDP, organizado por la SD Correcaminos y el Ajuntament de València, se ha situado como el sexto más rápido del mundo gracias a la marca conseguida por el atleta Kinde Atanaw Alayew, que ha parado el crono en 2h03:51, marca que supone un nuevo récord de la prueba."

4. "Aleyew ha entrado en meta 40 segundos más rápido que lo hizo el pasado año Leul Gebresilase (2h:04:31) y deja una nueva marca para la historia."

5. "Tras él, han entrado los atletas Kaan Kigen Ozbilen y Guye Idemo Adola, segunda y tercera posición respectivamente, completaron el podio más rápido de la prueba en sus 39 años de historia." ("el" is Alayew)

6. Las palabras del campeón: Kinde Atanaw Alayew: "Tenía muchísima confianza en mí mismo."

7. Kinde Atanaw Alayew: "Sabía que había llegado el momento de debutar en maratón."

8. Kinde Atanaw Alayew: "El entrenamiento me había ido bien y respecto a mis compañeros de entrenamiento yo sabía que estaba mejor que ellos para conseguir una victoria." (transcription but separate clause from previous sentence)

9. Kinde Atanaw Alayew: "Estoy muy contento y agradezco a todos los que me han ayudado."

And see video attached to the article here, also titled "Kinde Atanaw Alayew convierte al Maratón Valencia en el sexto más rápido del mundo".

As someone who does respect your opinions on most AfDs I'm curious where that count comes from? --Habst (talk) 20:24, 5 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
1,2: Titles and other subheadlines do not count toward GNG as they are not reliable.
3,4: The two sentences mentioned above.
5. Not coverage of Alayew.
6. Non-independent, primary quotes. JoelleJay (talk) 00:53, 6 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@JoelleJay, do you only have an issue with #6 but not #7,8,9 even though the same principle would apply? If not, wouldn't that still be five sentences and not two?

Regardless, discounting #6-9 at all wouldn't be appropriate because interviews can be secondary, independent, and reliable if framed in the context of a news piece as in this case (explained at WP:IV). We've discussed this issue with interviews at AfDs dozens of times before, enough for me to be confident there is no P&G that outright claims that interviews can never be notability-contributing (and in the case of WP:PRIMARY, note that it says "(depending on context) reviews and interviews" acknowledging that contextual placement in a news article is important). For example, a police interrogation transcript published by a government would generally be a primary interview; an athlete selectively quoted by an editor in an article about their performance would generally be secondary.

By the way, the video contains a lot of footage of Atanaw but is conspicuously missing audio. I wonder if it used to contain audio about the subject but was later muted due to expiring license on the background music they used, or something like that. --Habst (talk) 01:27, 6 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
What the subject says about themselves is obviously never independent and cannot be secondary. It does not matter where it is published, it is still both a first-hand account of (primary) and about (non-independent) the subject. The note in OR is referencing the distinction between secondary analysis from the interviewer and the primary, non-independent material coming from the interviewee. We have been over this countless times, including in an AfD closed less than a week ago[9], continuing this nonsense is bludgeoning at this point. JoelleJay (talk) 16:02, 6 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Just to be clear, do you have an issue with sentences #7, 8, and 9?

I am sympathetic to these concerns but using WP:IV as a guide this interview is secondary. A role of a newspaper is to publish factual information; it's their responsibility to make corrections if someone they interview is saying something untrue even about themselves (not that there is any reason or indication that's what's going on here). When a newspaper chooses to interview someone, that can be secondary and notability-contributing even if the subject talks about themself.

I don't want to bludgeon, but calling my posts "nonsense" isn't appropriate. I have a lot of respect for your edits and hope you can show me the same. --Habst (talk) 17:30, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Obviously the direct quotes from the subject about themselves in sentences 7–9 are not independent.
You brought up WP:IV. If you still cannot understand how coverage of the subject by the subject is NEVER contributory to GNG then that is a CIR issue.
If you actually respected anyone at AfD it wouldn't have taken an ANI report for you to agree to a behavioral restriction (that apparently isn't sufficient) on your IDHT time-wasting. You would have recognized the multiple closer admonitions and your 40% AfD match rate were proof of an overwhelming consensus against your positions and ceased bludgeoning them a year ago. JoelleJay (talk) 23:05, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@JoelleJay, I have a lot of respect for you and have always treated you with respect in AfDs. I don't understand why each of our dozens of discussions always devolves into intensely personal comments by you specifically about me instead of discussion of the substance.

w.r.t. WP:CIR, per the essay It is generally inadvisable to call a person "incompetent" or their editing "incompetent" as you have done. AfD statistics are not an appropriate measure of editor behavior; for example, I often do not comment at AfDs of articles I improve such as at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sim Bok-seok which if included would increase the percentage statistic.

Please keep the arguments about the article. --Habst (talk) 13:09, 13 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:53, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Kindie Derseh Kassie

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Fails WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT per User:JTtheOG Laura240406 (talk) 21:20, 31 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I converted the speedy deletion to this Laura240406 (talk) 21:21, 31 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

subject meets: WP:NTRACK: Finished top 3 in any other major senior-level international competition (this includes prestigious small field meets, e.g., Diamond League / IAAF Golden League meets, less-prestigious large-scale meets, e.g., Asian Games, and any Platinum or Gold World Athletics Label Road Races that are not explicitly mentioned above):

Won the 2021 San Sebastián Marathon

Finished 2nd at the 2022 Sanlam Cape Town Marathon Wieditor25 (talk) 22:40, 31 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It's untenable without a piece of in-depth coverage about his person Geschichte (talk) 06:33, 1 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Geschichte Subject's documented international wins and top finishes in sources like World Athletics and Olympics.com satisfy WP:NTRACK, establishing his notability under WP:GNG through significant, non-trivial athletic achievements.

These sources, while perhaps not "biographical" in the traditional sense, provide concrete, verifiable coverage of his significant athletic accomplishments. Wieditor25 (talk) 14:11, 1 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

You are ignoring the part of the guideline that states All sports biographies, including those of subjects meeting any criteria listed below, must include at least one reference to a source providing significant coverage of the subject. JoelleJay (talk) 06:36, 4 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Sport of athletics, and Ethiopia. Shellwood (talk) 21:23, 31 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 12:55, 1 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Svartner

Per WP:N, "a topic is presumed to merit an article if it meets either the general notability guideline (GNG), or the criteria outlined in a subject-specific notability guideline (SNG)."

The subject meets WP:NTRACK#3 (an SNG), so notability is established. Wieditor25 (talk) 18:59, 1 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
NTRACK states that Significant coverage is likely to exist for athletes who compete in the field of athletics if they meet any of the criteria below: We are trying to identify wether that coverage exists, in English or Amharic or any other language. JTtheOG (talk) 20:42, 1 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, turns out this athlete is much better known by the name "Derseh Kindie" which this article should be moved to. Also, he's most known for challenging Kipchoge at the 2023 Berlin Marathon which wasn't mentioned in the article before but is now. Also found SIGCOV of him following his runner-up Cape Town Marathon finish. Pinging User:Geschichte to take another look, it needs some fixing up but the sources are there. --Habst (talk) 12:26, 3 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Sportspeople are required to meet GNG and their pages must actively cite a source of IRS SIGCOV. However the new sourcing is nowhere near SIGCOV: a passing mention in five highly derivative pieces focused on Stephen Mokoka's Cape Town Marathon performance, and a passing mention in another 4 or 5 highly derivative pieces focused on Eliud Kipchoge's performance at the Berlin Marathon.
Second place went to Ethiopian Derseh Kindie Kassie in 2:11:26,
he was 21 seconds clear of second-placed Kassie at 35km, and just over a minute clear at 40km.
Second-placed Derseh Kindie Kassie says [commentary from Kassie]
Further insubstantial coverage by Olympics.org, AIMS, and World Athletics (via "MyJoyOnline") is clearly non-independent. JoelleJay (talk) 06:31, 4 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@JoelleJay, as discussed previously, World Athletics and the Olympics (as well as AIMS which I am not sure where the claim to non-independence comes from) are considered independent of athletes they cover because athletes are not employed by the Olympics.

I agree that the quotes presented aren't SIGCOV, but they aren't representative of the coverage linked in the article. His greater claim to notability is challenging Kipchoge in Berlin, not his second-place Cape Town finish. --Habst (talk) 13:28, 4 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
"As discussed previously" in the many AfDs closed as delete/redirect because these sources very obviously fail independence, as also emphasized in the guideline itself: Team sites and governing sports bodies are not considered independent of their players.[10][11] JoelleJay (talk) 15:56, 4 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Which AfDs covered in Olympics / AIMS news articles (I don't think there are any World Athletics articles in this case) have ever been closed as delete or redirect? I don't think it's ever happened before actually, which would make this a wild first. Neither the Olympics nor AIMS is a governing sports body that would have any relationship with Derseh. It's not the same as e.g. the New York Yankees writing about one of its players. --Habst (talk) 20:08, 5 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Of course the Olympics, WA, and AIMS are governing sports bodies. They govern the regulations and competitions these athletes compete in, that is a clear conflict of interest in what they choose to cover. We don't need AfD precedent to establish this obvious fact. JoelleJay (talk) 17:32, 6 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think AIMS is a governing sports body at all, actually, per their site. But regardless, there are over 100,000 Olympians in history, none of them were paid by the Olympics for competing, and in fact Kindie never even competed at the Olympics so I don't see how that connection could be made. Kindie isn't a "player" of the Olympics. --Habst (talk) 17:46, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
It is a governing sports body, its members are the races and it partners with WA and national orgs as well. It is not an independent source on any details of races it administers. And there does not have to be a direct employer-employee relationship for two parties to lack independence. I don't understand why you would think this. The Olympics writing an article on an Olympian, as is the case for Kipchoge here, is still not independent coverage of every detail that is not about the Olympian. And in this case the coverage of Kassie is trivial anyway. JoelleJay (talk) 22:53, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Taking a step back here, what "relationship", employment or otherwise, could the Olympics possibly have with Kindie? Kindie never even competed at the Olympics. Same with AIMS. I just feel like we are getting so far into the weeds that we are missing the forest for the trees. --Habst (talk) 13:12, 13 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Toadspike [Talk] 12:03, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: His role challenging Kipchoge at the 2023 Berlin Marathon was widely covered in international media, including World Athletics, which reported: Kipchoge and Kindie continued to run together at world record schedule through the half-way point., etc, BMW Berlin Marathon official site, Olympics.com, Yahoo Sports, and Runner's World- which noted: Just one runner—Ethiopia's Derseh Kindie—stuck with him. These outlets provided significant narrative coverage of his role in the race and no original research required, and hence he meets notability requirements. He also finished 2nd place at Cape Town, so he clears WP:NTRACK and WP:SPORTBASIC. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wieditor25 (talk • contribs) 18:23, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
WA, BMW Berlin official site, and Olympics are not independent sources. This is the entirety of coverage in Yahoo News: after Ethiopia’s Derseh Kindie dropped away. RW has less than 3 sentences, only one of which has secondary coverage (bold): Just one runner—Ethiopia’s Derseh Kindie—stuck with him; by 10K, they were a full minute ahead of the chase pack. The pair crossed the halfway mark in 1:00:22. Kindie, who previously had a personal best of 2:08:23, held on through 30K, then dropped out shortly afterward. None of this approaches the detailed coverage expected for GNG. JoelleJay (talk) 22:49, 9 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
For this Subject, we can set aside those sources, as the issue is not a lack of independent coverage. There are other sources with clear non-trivial detail about him. IOL/AP provides detailed context of his role at Berlin 2023. Runner’s World SA offers even more in-depth coverage of his Cape Town 2022 performance.

Also I came across this definition in Wiki: Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention, but it does not need to be the main topic of the source material. Wieditor25 (talk) 02:45, 10 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
IOL has Kindie, whose personal best stands seven minutes outside the world mark, kept pace with Kipchoge until 31 kilometres, where he suddenly fell back and appeared to drop out of the race, walking gingerly on the footpath as other runners overtook him. That is one sentence, with only the bolded part being secondary; the rest is a primary recounting of events in that race. Not SIGCOV.
RW has literally no secondary independent coverage:
Second position went to Ethiopian Derseh Kindie Kassie in 2:11:26,
[Mokoka] was 21 seconds clear of second-placed Kassie at 35km,
Second-placed Derseh Kindie Kassie says [account from Kassie]
Not SIGCOV. JoelleJay (talk) 22:40, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Well. They still provide coverage that exceeds the threshold of a trivial mention. Specifically, the RW SA piece offers editorial context and direct quotes, including narrative framing of his performance. Not just a name-drop or a result. I don't see any major issue with Ethiopia's Derseh Kindie Kassie notability under the policy.Wieditor25 (talk) 02:45, 13 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Ethiopia Proposed deletions

Ghana

Yaw Danso

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Ghanese footballer with spells at the NASL and USL clubs, but lacks of independent coverage. Svartner (talk) 17:03, 9 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Football, Sportspeople, Ghana, Colorado, Illinois, Missouri, and Puerto Rico. Svartner (talk) 17:03, 9 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Giant Snowman 18:36, 10 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:39, 10 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Fails in GNG. RossEvans19 (talk) 14:05, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Ivory Coast

Gaousso Bakayoko

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Subject does not meet the WP:SPORTSCRIT due to a lack of WP:SIGCOV, either in the article or in a WP:BEFORE. In addition, the subject is actually named Gaoussou Bakayoko, and that should be changed if this article is kept. Let'srun (talk) 15:14, 7 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Football, Ivory Coast, Iowa, and New York. Let'srun (talk) 15:14, 7 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Refs fails WP:SIRS so article fails WP:GNG. - UtherSRG (talk) 15:25, 7 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 03:21, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Giant Snowman 11:20, 9 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 11:23, 9 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Jackson Jellah

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Fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. Mindlessly undeleted to waste time. No changes in career since PROD. JTtheOG (talk) 01:59, 7 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Football, Ivory Coast, Arizona, and Oregon. JTtheOG (talk) 01:59, 7 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Does not meet WP:SPORTCRIT nor WP:GNG. The unPROD request was multiple and was based purely on who had requested the PRODs (and even then was in error, accidentally undeleting other pages too). No objection was given, nor any dispute that the subject is simply not notable. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 07:17, 7 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Fails WP:SIRS so fails WP:GNG. UtherSRG (talk) 11:11, 7 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Giant Snowman 11:24, 7 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. However, I am very concerned about the number and speed of AFDs from this editor, especially given that some were mere minutes after the article was restored. WP:BEFORE is crucial. Giant Snowman 11:32, 7 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Kenya

2025 Kenya bus crash

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WP:NOTNEWS. Point 4 of WP:EVENTCRITERIA - Routine kinds of news events (including most .. accidents ..) – whether or not tragic or widely reported at the time – are usually not notable. XYZ1233212 (talk) 13:07, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Events, Transportation, and Kenya. XYZ1233212 (talk) 13:07, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. WP:NOTNEWS. Not every accident is worthy of an encyclopedia article, even if it was newsworthy at the time. Ira Leviton (talk) 13:21, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. The high amount of casualties makes this an abnormal crash that warrants an article for the accident. Nintenga (talk) 14:16, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per WP:NOTNEWS. Barely passes the minimum number of dead in List of traffic collisions (2000–present). Borgenland (talk) 14:30, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per WP:NOTNEWS. It is true that there was loss of lives, but this does not meet the threshold for inclusion in the encyclopedia. Road crashes of this nature happen always. My condolences to the families of those who lost loved ones and quick recovery to the injured. Patre23 (talk) 15:37, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Cosmas Muteti

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I am unable to find sufficient in-depth coverage of this marathon runner to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTBASIC. All I found were routine race reports like 1, 2, and 3. I tried tagging the article and engaging the creator on their talk page; both edits were reverted. JTtheOG (talk) 23:12, 1 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Sport of athletics, and Kenya. JTtheOG (talk) 23:12, 1 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@JTtheOGI've removed the tags as I believe all the athlete articles I created meet WP:N. If you disagree, feel free to delete them. Wieditor25 (talk) 23:31, 1 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

You were informed here that NTRACK only tells us that coverage may exist. You proceeded to revert my edits instead of engage in a good-faith discussion. JTtheOG (talk) 23:37, 1 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@JTtheOG I've removed the tags, as I do not agree with your assessment. Wieditor25 (talk) 23:41, 1 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

(more of a dispute with NSPORT than disputing your comment) Honestly, coverage "may" exist for any topic at all. It makes no sense to have such criteria as NTRACK if every article one ever creates meeting it gets deleted unless multiple pieces of sigcov are instantly provided because "well, meeting it only means that coverage may exist (just like, for every topic that doesn't meet it, coverage may exist) – but since two Americans who English-Google-searched a Kenyan didn't find SIGCOV, that means it surely doesn't exist anywhere". BeanieFan11 (talk) 00:12, 2 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. I was a staunch supporter of keeping NSPORT and refining it (Olympians getting deleted will never ever sit right with me), but I really don't see the point of keeping it if it now gets superseded by GNG. All it creates is confusion for new editors. Although to be fair, the creator can presumably also be added to the list of editors who searched for coverage. JTtheOG (talk) 00:20, 2 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. De-personalizing the dispute with the article creator here, the sources exist and I found them. The subject is again also known by a different name: "Cosmas Matolo". See for example him being covered in NTV Kenya here (clip from full TV program): [12], in English prose here [13] and in German prose here: [14]

To the article creator, thank you for your contributions and three things I would advise going forward are to avoid bulleted lists in favor of prose in articles, to use the most common name for a subject (check Tilastopaja) and add redirects or alt names to the lede, and to include a prose-based coverage link when creating new articles. --Habst (talk) 12:53, 3 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

A live~~, 2-minute~~ interview where the subject talks about himself; primary coverage in a WordPress blog; and a blurb by an Olympics committee, all from 2022, are clearly not acceptable sources for GNG. JoelleJay (talk) 06:46, 4 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@JoelleJay, you know I have a lot of respect for your contributions. Could you strike the "2-minute interview where the subject talks about himself" part of your comment, because as mentioned previously the YouTube link is just a clip from a much longer program that includes both interview and non-interview parts about Mueti? There are other clips from the same programming here, here, and here. Also, none of the sources I linked are WordPress.com blogs -- if you just mean that one of them uses WordPress on the back-end, you know that the Vox News and Rolling Stone use WordPress on their backends as well so I don't see how that is relevant at all?

I would be happy to strike my comment and change my !vote if there's any evidence that the sources aren't notability-contributing, but as we've discussed previously these types of sources are usually exactly what we're looking for in AfDs. --Habst (talk) 13:17, 4 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, it is still a primary, live interview where the subject talks about himself or the interviewee asks questions. Not secondary, not independent.
The Fast Running piece, which isn't SIGCOV regardless, is in fact an unattributed press release from Race News Service. JoelleJay (talk) 15:43, 4 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. Interviews can be used to establish notability as we've discussed before; per WP:IV they can be secondary, independent, and reliable. Taking a step back, WP:SPORTCRIT said before your change to it, "Sports biographies must include at least one reference to a source providing significant coverage of the subject, excluding database sources. Meeting this requirement alone does not indicate notability, but it does indicate that there are likely sufficient sources to merit a stand-alone article". I think that the NTV Kenya piece is a good example of that significant coverage piece required; it's all about Muteti from a reliable source, so it's hard to imagine finding something more ideal than that. --Habst (talk) 19:44, 5 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It's "all about Muteti" talking about himself. It does not count toward SPORTCRIT because it is NOT INDEPENDENT OR SECONDARY. This is literally in your link to WP:IV: The general rule is that any statements made by interviewees about themselves, their activities, or anything they are connected to is considered to have come from a primary source. [...] Alice Expert talks about herself, her actions, or her ideas: non-independent source. This is getting tendentious. JoelleJay (talk) 17:42, 6 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

And, hold up, are you now seriously suggesting that SPORTCRIT only requires coverage that is significant and reliable...............???? JoelleJay (talk) 17:44, 6 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Interviews can be notability-contributing (i.e., both independent and secondary) if they're published by a reliable source that provides analysis. If they can't, where in Wikipedia P&G is that stated? Even WP:PRIMARY says that an interview's status as primary depends on context. And I'm mostly relying on WP:N here, not just SPORTCRIT. In general, having significant reliable coverage certainly helps though.

Again, with the "tendentious" labeling, I urge you to treat me with respect as I have always done to you because I respect your contributions. --Habst (talk) 17:38, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. We do not have the required IRS SIGCOV. Sources identified above are variously deficient. JoelleJay (talk) 06:47, 4 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 08:11, 9 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: He is clearly notable. But Wikipedia’s system often biases against non-Western athletes who receive less mainstream press. Also some of the arguments for deletion seem overly rigid. That said, I found two new significant sources. MyBestRuns covers his Vienna 2022 win in details. And another significant coverage by SWA, which reports his 2018 Bali Marathon win, including some of his quotes. Both sources are independent of the subject and provide significant coverage. Wieditor25 (talk) 21:12, 10 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Tuko.co.ke

AfDs for this article:

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Procedural nomination: First nomination was significantly distorted by a group of socks, and also got non-admin closed by a now blocked sock. MarioGom (talk) 13:55, 1 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: News media and Kenya. MarioGom (talk) 13:55, 1 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Websites-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 17:41, 1 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Delete There's nothing in the article that really explains its notability. Thepharoah17 (talk) 03:49, 5 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Ineligible for soft deletion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 13:56, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Liberia

Libya

El-Mehdi Sallah Diab

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Declined prod. All the sources are databases/results and insufficient for meeting WP:SPORTSCRIT. Medalling at Arab Athletics Championships is not considered a top tier competition for meeting WP:NATH. LibStar (talk) 05:50, 2 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Olympics, Sport of athletics, and Libya. LibStar (talk) 05:50, 2 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Fails WP:NSPORT due to lack of IRS SIGCOV. Searching Eastmain's MENA Newspaper database, I see that El-Mehdi was the surname of an Iraqi prime minister, and El-Mahdi was the name of a Sudanese leader. Searching "Al-Mahdi" also finds hits related to the same leaders. I also tried searching the Arabic name but there were no relevant hits in this database. Diab is an incredibly common name also (both as a surname and as a given name), but focusing just on the period of July 1980 in the database also gives no relevant hits either in Arabic or in Roman characters.

I did wonder if this was another case of the name being down wrong, or at least in the wrong order, but it seems Libyan practise to have given-names that are commonly surnames so probably not.

Regarding the Arab Athletics Championships, this is essentially a second-ranking competition compared to the Pan Arab Games.

Is it likely that there would be coverage of this person anyway in Libyan media? Well, at the time Libya was ruled by the Ghaddafi regime, the heavily-censored, state-controlled media of which gave over an awful lot of print coverage to the supreme leader and little to anyone else. So the name might be mentioned somewhere, but the likelihood of significant coverage is not particularly high - and this is assuming that Ghaddafi-era newspapers would count as independent and reliable, which is dubious. FOARP (talk) 09:53, 2 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Is a single Libyan newspaper included in that database? Both the Arab Championships and the Pan Arab Games have about the same number of competing countries (over 20); how do you know the Arab Games are apparently much more significant than the Arab Championships? Additionally, Diab has just under a fifth of all medals ever achieved by Libya at the Arab Championships (4/22); that is very significant for Libya, and something very likely to have resulted in coverage. Fellow Libyan Mohamed Asswai Khalifa received SIGCOV and was a "household name" for a few regional medals (at less significant competitions) – why would Diab not have coverage? Further, a country being under censorship and state controlled media does not necessarily equate to them never covering sportspeople. They're a bit different, but e.g. North Korea, also with significant censorship and state-controlled media, apparently gave a good deal of coverage to their sports around the same time (in a film about the 1960s North Korean football team, one player showed a book full of newspaper articles he clipped on the team). BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:27, 2 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Are North Korean newspapers independent and reliable........?

Since the answer is "no and no" why would coverage in NK newspapers matter? FOARP (talk) 19:32, 2 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

How are North Korean (or Libyan) newspapers not independent from athletes they cover, and why would they be blanket-unreliable for sports coverage? Of course they're unreliable for politics, but reporting on sports? BeanieFan11 (talk) 19:34, 2 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

How are state-run, state-controlled, state-censored outlets independent from state employees of state organisations whose job is the glorification of the state you mean? Can we source reports about the 1936 Olympics to the Volkischer Beobachter and Die Deutsche Wochenschau? Do we rely on Pravda and Radio Moscow for coverage of the 1980 Olympics? I certainly hope not.Just to highlight this: the independence requirement is additional and separate to the reliability requirement when assessing notability - propaganda outlets do not indicate the ability of the topic because they are no t free to give coverage to things based on notability. FOARP (talk) 21:09, 2 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The athletes are not employed by the media outlets (if they were, then it'd be non-independent). If Pravda gave decent coverage of a Russian athlete at the 1980 Olympics and the coverage isn't wrong, I see no issue with using its coverage. BeanieFan11 (talk) 21:17, 2 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I'm amazed some people on here (not you @BeanieFan11 - one of the most rational and fair-minded people I've come across on here) don't have their heads explode talking about all this. Wikipedia editors have chosen to deprecate so many sources based on politics. Yes the Daily Mail is right wing but that doesn't mean its football coverage is unreliable, The Sun is dodgy with its celebrity coverage but that doesn't mean its cricket match reports are wrong, the South China Morning Post is pro-Chinese government but its tennis results are accurate, the same goes for so many other media outlets. The blanket deprecation system is plain stupid and unnecessarily limiting. For instance the British tennis player Katie Swan has effectively missed two years due to injury and just won her first singles tournament in her comeback but all the coverage of her injury and recovery is in deprecated sources like The Mirror therefore her bio has a two year black hole and in the future (or even now) people will look at it and think "what happened to her from mid 2023 to mid 2025?" When it comes to sports coverage there should be a separate list of deprecated sources that have been actually proven to be regularly inaccurate in their sports coverage. Shrug02 (talk) 22:08, 2 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Again, this is about independence, which is an additional requirement on top of reliability. I actually opposed the outright deprecation of UK tabloids.

In a single-party dictatorship with strict censorship of media (speaking from experience, since I’ve lived in one) it is simply naive to think that the state-controlled, state-censored, state-owned media is independent of the state-employed, state-trained athletes whose job is to glorify the state. FOARP (talk) 06:52, 3 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I would dispute that many deprecated sources on Wikipedia's list are state owned or controlled. Last time I checked The Sun, The Mirror, Daily Mail, Daily Express were all private businesses. They're deprecated because a tiny proportion of Wikipedia editors who were aware of a hard to find vote years ago decided they didn't like their politics. As I said there should be a separate list for sports. The result of a match or who won a tournament can't really be spun and if a source was doing so then of course disallow it but at present, as shown in the example I gave of Katie Swan, many sources with perfectly acceptable records when it comes to sports reporting cannot be used and it is to the detriment of Wikipedia and its readers. Anyway I appreciate your point of view @FOARP and respect it, even if I don't agree with it. I'm going to shut up now before I get another telling off from an admin for expressing an opinion contrary to the group think and/or for doing so in the incorrect forum. Shrug02 (talk) 15:36, 3 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The problem with authoritarian state-controlled media isn't just the NPOV problems in how they write about topics, it's also the more significant bias in what they choose to report on. It's very easy to see how, e.g., Iranian news might suppress positive coverage of athletes who are considered dissidents, or amplify positive coverage of pro-government athletes. In those cases SIGCOV does not reflect independent attention as it is inextricably linked to the media owner's (government's) financial/political interests, and especially with many authoritarian regimes also cannot be considered reliable. And in the situation of national team-level athletes, the government's reporting on the topic is no more independent than that of the governing sports org. JoelleJay (talk) 21:14, 3 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Just about every media outlet chooses what to report on – the solution to the Iranian media suppressing coverage of dissident athletes is not to discount all coverage they give entirely. If there's SIGCOV by the national media, it should count as SIGCOV; I don't think them (hypothetically) choosing to cover specific athletes should automatically mean that the coverage is no longer significant because "they decided to cover these athletes, and not this one!" BeanieFan11 (talk) 23:01, 3 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

You are skipping over the parts about how they cover an athlete (reporting on positive/negative news) and the definite interest a government has in promoting its representatives. When news media is indistinguishable from government propaganda it is not possible to achieve NPOV. JoelleJay (talk) 06:03, 4 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Right. I mean taking the topic of Libya under Ghaddafi, let's recall how the Libyan football team was selected, and who was in it, and how it was reported on by Libyan media. Do you really think the Libyan media was free to select which of the players on that team - the team captained by Ghaddafi's son - they gave coverage to? And what that coverage was?

We just went through the whole thing with Mauritania where it turned out that the government-run news service - contrary to protests that they must be giving significant coverage to Mauritanian Olympians - was not to giving any coverage to the Olympics at all, but instead just running ocassional "President congratulates football team" stories and the like as their sole sports coverage. FOARP (talk) 10:29, 4 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think using only the 2024 Olympics is an apt comparison because 2024 Olympians tend to be covered on social media and other online news sites, there is less need for government coverage. Things were very different in the pre-Internet era, and either way Mauritanian athletes have been shown to have coverage on non-government internet news sites in 2024 so it would make sense that would extend backwards as well. --Habst (talk) 20:53, 4 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The period covered there contains two sets of games (the 2020 Olympics were held in summer 2021). They gave the Olympics zero coverage. As far as I could see looking at their print archive they skipped the 2016 games also. FOARP (talk) 05:10, 5 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

That's fine, but their athletes from the 2016, 2020, and 2021 games were covered by other outlets; see for example Camil Doua (or you could pick an Olympic athlete with medals like Diab from that era of your choice and I will link you the coverage). In general, subjects of mass interest like Olympians tend to be covered by whatever news organizations are prominent at the time, whether they be state or independent media. --Habst (talk) 01:45, 6 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

We're way OT here, but as already discussed elsewhere, it is notable that the SIGCOV for Doua was in French outlets, as a result of him being French.FOARP (talk) 08:00, 6 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. The possibility that Libyan media may have reported on this person—something that explicitly cannot be presumed based on his achievements alone—is subordinate to the SPORTCRIT requirement for a citation to IRS SIGCOV. JoelleJay (talk) 06:06, 4 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, as Diab was extremely accomplished (a fifth of all Libyan medals ever at the Arab Championships -- a competition of over 20 nations and probably one of the most prestigious things Libyan athletes can win) and not even a single Libyan newspaper from his era has been searched, despite it being exceedingly likely he was covered there extensively. A similar AFD on another Libyan athlete of the period was demonstrated to have SIGCOV, and that subject was even less accomplished than Diab here. It is ridiculous to assume that the best athlete out of 5 million+ Libyans would not be covered in the Libyan media; coverage is given to sports even when under dictatorships, and it is not valid to say that all of it is non-independent. Deleting this when we have not checked Libyan sources is not in the best interest of the encyclopedia. BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:15, 9 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Please supply 3 in-depth sources to support notability. LibStar (talk) 23:16, 9 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, This person is so obviously notable, that it should have never been nominated for deletion per Beanie fan 11. The Knowledge Pirate (talk) 18:45, 9 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Then why have 3 people voted delete if the subject is so obviously notable? LibStar (talk) 09:54, 10 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete unless sources are provided, not just an assertion that they exist. Stifle (talk) 08:57, 10 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: for a little more time to find the potential independent sourcing.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star Mississippi 12:35, 10 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: per nom, the subject does not meet WP:SPORTSCRIT or WP:NATH. As stated in WP:THEREMUSTBESOURCES, You may be confident that sources exist, but asserting this without proof is unlikely to convince anyone who believes that they don't... The best and most reliable way of convincing both doubters and the closing administrator is to actually provide the requested sources rather than simply declaring you're sure they must be out there somewhere. So, if the sources really exist, let's produce them, so as to remove the doubt about the subject's notability.--DesiMoore (talk) 15:31, 10 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
- You're assuming that all coverage ever made is accessible to us, but the thing is that it isn't. A week isn't sufficient to search offline Arabic Libyan newspapers. If we can't produce even a single historical Libyan newspaper at all, how can we say that the number one Libyan athlete of the time was never covered? BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:00, 10 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  " A week isn't sufficient to search offline Arabic Libyan newspapers." - This article has existed for eight years, so let's not pretend that there have only been seven days for sourcing to be found. More to the point: no-one is proposing to search offline Libyan news sources, no-one is going to do that. You are demanding that people do something that you have shown zero intent of doing yourself.
  
  "If we can't produce even a single historical Libyan newspaper at all, how can we say that the number one Libyan athlete of the time was never covered?" - Because we know that the Libyan media of the time was a lying morass of censored propaganda whose primary job was the glorification of Muammar Gaddafi:
  "Eventually Gaddafi succeeded in starting his own revolutionary press. It was so revolutionary that it carried little news; instead it highlighted exhortations for greater revolutionary fervour and self-sacrifice, attacks on the reactionaries and the imperialists - and interminable telegrams of support for the Colonel from various segments of the population. There are no independent newspapers in the country - all are owned by the state. There are no book-publishers either, for again it is the state alone which publishes books. Everything is geared to propagate the Colonel's ideas and theories"
  
  But OK, maybe the Olympics is just really popular in Libya? Oh wait, the State News Agency has run exactly one story about the Olympics since 2016, and that's a piece about officials trying to organise attendance, with none of the sports pieces carried in 9+ years giving SIGCOV to any athlete. They didn't even bother covering the 2023 Arab games despite Libya winning gold there. This, by the way, was the successor organisation to the official JANA agency, which was the only authorised distributor of foreign news and most domestic news in Libya in the Gaddafi era. FOARP (talk) 21:02, 10 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Subject fails to meet the WP:GNG due to a lack of WP:SIGCOV. The only sources here are databases, and WP:BLP's require strong secondary sources from independent, reliable sources. Just because the subject participated in the Olympics doesn't mean they received significant coverage, as all participation based criteria for Olympians has been depreciated. Let'srun (talk) 01:56, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm not basing notability off the Olympic participation at all. I'm basing it off of being one of the most accomplished Libyan athletes ever: a fifth of all their medals ever at the Arab Championships. That clearly would have received coverage. BeanieFan11 (talk) 03:04, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
At the very least this should be redirected for when the coverage that is certain to exist is uncovered. BeanieFan11 (talk) 03:04, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Malawi

Malawi Proposed deletions

Also check the list at WP:PRODSUM

Mauritius

Morocco

Zaynab El Bernoussi

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Searches did not turn up enough in-depth coverage from independent, reliable sources to support meeting WP:GNG. And does not appear to meet any of the criteria for WP:NSCHOLAR, meager citation count, some minor awards. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 23:11, 4 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Academics and educators, Women, and Morocco. Shellwood (talk) 23:13, 4 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

There are some older sources that list assistant professor, but they are outdated and old. The admission to the Weatherhead Center for Interntational Affairs and lecture at the Harvard law school were notable achievements. Another notable event was organizing the International Prayer for Peace in 2006. 196.74.228.91 (talk) 07:33, 6 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. There are some older sources that list assistant professor, but they are outdated and old. The admission to the Weatherhead Center for Interntational Affairs and lecture at the Harvard law school were notable achievements. Another notable event was organizing the International Prayer for Peace in 2006. 196.75.253.199 (talk) 09:08, 6 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. The selection for a doctoral fellowship at the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill under the mentorship of Charles Kurzman in 2014 was also another significant achievment for a scholar born and raised in Morocco. 196.75.253.199 (talk) 09:22, 6 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Comment

She was recently names Recipient of the 2025 Global South Award [15] [16] (does this satisfy "The person has received a highly prestigious academic award or honor at a national or international level."? WP:NACADEMIC

I found some of her work published on reputable publications, does that contribute to her notability as an academic in any way? for example Oxford Columbia Uni

She was appointed Interim Chair of the Department of Humanities at The Africa Institute [17] (does this satisfy "The person has held a distinguished professor appointment at a major institution of higher education and research, a named chair appointment that indicates a comparable level of achievement, or an equivalent position in countries where named chairs are uncommon." or "The person has held a highest-level elected or appointed administrative post at a major academic institution or major academic society."? WP:NACADEMIC Rap no Davinci (talk) 16:53, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The Global South award is not notable enough to satisfy NACADEMIC. Having worked published in and of itself is not indicative of passing WP notability standards. Rather, how many others have cited her work? In this case, the answer is not many. Interim chairs also do not count as notable. Sorry. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 20:44, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciate you taking the time to address all the 3 questions I had.

unfortunately I am not familiar with her work, so I can't help with much as I don't know if she has " significant impact in their scholarly discipline". but one last attempt:

she has been cited by quite a number of scholars, Scholar books now if they're reviewing one of her works, that could be something I believe, maybe WP:BIO or WP:AUTHOR, but I don't have much time to dig that deep, the creator of the article might be better familiar with her work and can help with this part!

She's won few other prizes like the Arab Prize, but probably still not notable enough: "Ms. Zaynab El Bernoussi from Morocco won the third prize of 5,000 USD for her paper published in English, “The Postcolonial Politics of Dignity: From the 1956 Suez Nationalization to the 2011 Revolution in Egypt”." [18]

She sits at the Editorial Board of Cambridge, not sure if that in itself is enough, but might add something! [19]

cheers! Rap no Davinci (talk) 00:04, 9 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, if possible. The author was reviewed by the notable Aili Mari Tripp (who visited Morocco), Jan Nederveen Pieterse (as he invited her to UC Santa Barbara), Joseph Nye and Herbert Kelman (during her program at Harvard University). She also contributed with a piece at the notable Project Syndicate. 196.75.127.190 (talk) 18:06, 10 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Keep.The work is notable on the Arab Spring, especially from a Moroccan woman. There is also significant work in decolonizing international political economy, critical security studies, and a unique theorization of the concept of dignity. 196.65.226.219 (talk) 10:20, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star Mississippi 02:34, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. The scholar is recognized as a distinguished professor which is notable based on her origin/gender/age group (for representation) and her pioneering research in dignity politics (coining the concept of dignition=dignity+recognition) during the 2011 Arab Spring. Her scholarship is uniquely interdisciplinary and varied (including in several languages). She has notable editorial contributions and was reviewed by major scholars. In addition to academia, she has been referenced in the press as her work deals with protests around the world. The sources are reliable, independent, and verifiable. 196.75.109.181 (talk) 12:54, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Fnaire

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Questionable amount of notability and sigcov to deserve its own article. YouTube and Genius "sources" do not count. MimirIsSmart (talk) 15:54, 17 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Morocco. MimirIsSmart (talk) 15:54, 17 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:26, 24 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Comment (still new here, didn't know that YouTube is not a reliable source!)

I updated the sources and removed YouTube and Genius. Please have a look and let me know if there are better ways to improve the article. Rap no Davinci (talk) 20:00, 26 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, WormEater13 (talk • contribs) 15:20, 31 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Specific analysis of available sources would be quite helpful.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 15:55, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: to make it easier to my fellow editors, here are some of the main reasons why they pass for WP:ARTIST (my bad as the creator of the article not to include them from the beginning):

• Awarded the prestigious royal decoration Order of Ouissam Alaouite by the King of Morocco for their artistic contributions to Moroccan music. [s], [s 2]

• They performed at Mawazine in 2019,[20] top 5 biggest festivals in the world [21] and the biggest in Africa. [named by billboard [22]]

• The first Moroccan hip hop act to perform during the NBA All-Star Game halftime show in 2017. [23] [24]

• A collaborative song with India's T-Series and Nora Fathi. [25]

They are one of the most influential hip hop acts in Morocco's history, my mistake I included YouTube links at first not knowing it's not reliable on Wikipedia.

Let me know if anything else is needed. Cheers! Rap no Davinci (talk) 16:37, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Nigeria

Last will and testament of Herbert Macaulay

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Copied to Wikisource by me - s:Last will and testament of Herbert Macaulay, WP:INDISCRIMINATE, no reason to keep here. —Matrix(!) _{ping one}^{when replying} {u - t? - _uselessc} 20:19, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People and Nigeria. —Matrix(!) _{ping one}^{when replying} {u - t? - _uselessc} 20:19, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Probably also doesn't meet WP:GNG. —Matrix(!) _{ping one}^{when replying} {u - t? - _uselessc} 20:20, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

del no encyclopedic content. --Altenmann >talk 20:44, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete since there's no evidence that this needs its own article. Cortador (talk) 21:47, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - short of a highly contested Will, they are never notable. I can only think of perhaps Elvis' or Howard Hughes' as being notable. This one isn't. Bearian (talk) 21:53, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Law-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 23:05, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Not suitable for Wikipedia. An editor from Mars (talk) 05:39, 13 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Rasheed Ayobami Aranmolate

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Was raised at RSN slightly over 2 months ago, not much has changed since the article was previously deleted as Ayobami Aranmolate Rasheed (AfD), which isn't too surprising considering it was only 4 months ago. Sources are promotional and of questionable independence, WP:NEWSORGNIGERIA applies. Might ping previous participants later. Alpha3031 (t • c) 14:36, 9 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Businesspeople, Television, Medicine, and Nigeria. Alpha3031 (t • c) 14:36, 9 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: *Clear throat* This person is a Fellow of West African College of Surgeons. I guess we should re-read NACADEMIC together. Best, Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia 17:34, 10 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Reading Beans Thanks for pointing that out, It’s funny how I saw this article here, I even made a search on google and I found out the old deleted revision was garbage but this fresh article seams better, maybe @Alpha3031 might by Judging based on previous AFD discussion, I don’t know who was the creator by the way, I’ll only create articles that meets notability, atleast few points. Chippla ✍️ - Best Regards 21:04, 10 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Sure Reading Beans. I don't really think Chippla360 needed to ping me for this, but I suppose I should clarify that I did read both the article and the past discussions, where thes is mentioned but not fully discussed, in addition to doing a search for sources. And possibly something about NPROF. Ah, I'm sure I'll think of it later, but it might include something about at least three thousand fellows between 1983 and 2012.^[1] Might also have the word highly in there somewhere. Something to get to after the reread then? I'm sure Chippla and Dxneo have arguments in favour of the subject's notability, but we won't really know for sure until the sources are discussed here, no?

It's not like this is a forgone conclusion, Vanderwaalforces and Drmies both mentioned the fellowship in the past discussion, so they might be convinced given the evidence of it existing, or maybe not (who knows). I'll also ping the rest, Versace1608 , Bearian, Ibjaja055, and Gheus and ActivelyDisinterested from the RSN discussion, to see if they have any insights. There's also the American Academy of Aesthetic Medicine but I'm not sure they're even a reputable training company, much less their academic reputation, and I couldn't find much on them so I might leave it to someone more familiar with American medical associations to comment. Alpha3031 (t • c) 01:42, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
In the last discussion you’re talking about, VWF said the claims were hoax and to be honest, I only assumed good faith and didn’t verify the honest. I’ll do

some searches and I’ll be right back. Best, Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia 07:13, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

This list of fellows has his name on the Original Fellow List #5000. I don’t think there’s a debate here about the notability (there could be possible UPE, but that’s not a deletion criteria). This is my 2€ (I don't do cents), and I’ll be watching the discussion to see the trajectory it takes. Best, Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia 07:18, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not great at saying things by implication, so since we seem to be past that I will just say that I didn't have doubts they're a fellow, but I looked things up and they seem to have awarded fellows in two ways since 1983, one of which being considerably more selective than the other, and I don't see any way to tell one type of fellow from the other. I suppose we might still be able to consider it highly selective, but I don't think it's a done deal so I don't want to preempt any discussion. Alpha3031 (t • c) 09:18, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

also, it seems like I accidentally pinged everyone again when adjusting the formatting, so I apologise for that.Alpha3031 (t • c) 09:33, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep: I don’t know why this article was brought to AFD but potential editors have viewed this page serval times but didn’t think otherwise, before i decided to create this page, I found reliable sources, why some articles found on google seams to be published in a Fan point of view, I have used only reliable sources and there is no prove of the references used in this article been promotional, article passed through AFC, there are editorial bylines and subject clearly passes WP:GNG, meets WP: NACADEMIC.
I saw the Old AfD Discussion, deletion log Also Came across this on google (It was nothing to write home about) Maybe it’s the issues previous participants where pointing out on the AFD discussion, so I had to do my research. Also found WP:SIGCOV [26] [27] Aside other facts about this subject, It’s verifiable also through serval source that he is a fellow of West African College of Surgeons. Chippla ✍️ - Best Regards 20:58, 10 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
- @Chippla360 I found the old deletion logs and it was nothing to write home about. How did you find the content of the deleted article and what makes you think Alpha3031 may be judging from the “deleted” content and not the content of this one? Judging from my participation of the previous AfD and if I remember the content of the article correctly, this your version is nothing much different from the deleted version. There are so many things that seem off with this recreation in its entirety, but I’d have to take my time and give a proper look later. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 01:52, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  - IMO, the nomination rationale shows that the nominator was judging based on previous deleted content. But let’s focus on the actual issue here which is to know if Aranmolate satisfies NPROF#2. Best, Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia 07:09, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  - @Vanderwaalforces @Alpha3031, have a look Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ayobami Aranmolate Rasheed, I don’t have much to say about the previous existence of this article, But I did my search for notable, tried to understand the flaws before I decided to create this article, sources I found was what lead me on to the "page title" I used which was more appropriate. Then I still made some research on google and I came across [28] after I created and submitted the draft to AFC, So I’m thinking If these might be the old content some AFD participants actually talked about on the old deletion log, In General I won’t choose to create an article if the subject doesn’t meet the requirements. Chippla ✍️ - Best Regards 07:21, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    - Certainly. I have no doubt that you created the article because you believed him to be notable, and I have no issue with that. Even AFC/NPP reviews only require us to check that people are likely to survive a deletion discussion, not certain to to survive a deletion discussion, so please don't take this as me calling into question anybody's judgement. It's just that I think it's reasonable to have the discussion, when the sources are subject to caveats surrounding independence and reliability, and the assessment is more difficult as a result. Alpha3031 (t • c) 07:42, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
      - This is probably my last comment here, @Alpha3031 your nomination is obviously based on passed events seeing the links you dropped, @Reading Beans can agree to that, I have to politely ask, you stated that the sources are promotional, I want to see the prove, You cant just say all the sources used aren’t good enough to prove notability because you didn’t state that the subject failed any notability criteria on your nomination comment, I’ve Assume good faith lastly, check the source and points I dropped on my keep vote, also see my comments here, Thank you. Chippla ✍️ - Best Regards 08:04, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
        I don't think "you've obviously based your nomination on past events" really falls under the letter or spirit of assuming good faith, when I did state that I performed my own search for sources. I believe the link provided some relevant context, I don't particularly appreciate the accusation I've done no additional work because of it, but just to avoid all doubt, I have in fact read the sources currently cited in the article, and those that came up in my own search.
        This wasn't really a topic I had in mind in the first place when I opened my nomination so I do appreciate your stated willingness to drop it. As I've said, and I'm sorry if this discussion is distressing to you, I've brought it here because there was concerns raised about the sources, and I didn't particularly disagree with them, so I thought a discussion on the issue was reasonable. I really don't understand why this has turned into me making a judgement based on the previously deleted content. I do not have viewdeleted. I cannot see deleted content. Alpha3031 (t • c) 08:56, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: It's certainly more balanced and not the hagiography that we see sometimes out of the Nigerian pay-for-play media. Bearian (talk) 01:51, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, I don't even remember this one, but I was mentioned here. At a glance, I would say the article is fairly referenced in RS. The legal issues, accolades, work in surgery (very reliable source), plus he's been making headlines since 2020. Promo does not apply here. dxneo (talk) 06:59, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
- That is a primary source: it only proves he was the co-author of a published article. Drmies (talk) 14:26, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  Great! He's also a published author and still can't ignore all the headlines dating back to 2020. Ping me if you need me. dxneo (talk) 16:52, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Omigbodun, Ao (July 2012). "The membership certification of the west african college of surgeons and its relevance to the needs of the west african sub-region". Journal of the West African College of Surgeons. 2 (3): 83–87. ISSN 2276-6944.

Joseph Ntung Ari

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I initially draftified this article, but reverted myself once I realized it is more than 90 days old. Based on the sources cited, the subject is not notable: refs 1, 2, 4, 5 are just quotes from him (not independent), while the other three are not significant coverage. My web search didn't find anything better.

Additionally, the references consistently fail to support the content they are cited for, e.g. ref 1 [29] makes no mention of "Plateau", ref 2 [30] is not about his education at all, ref 3 [31] doesn't mention Plateau, the FRCN, or the NTA. If editors find sufficient sources to deem the subject notable, I ask that the article still be draftified until it is completely rewritten using only information supported by reliable sources. Toadspike [Talk] 21:42, 3 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. The subject is clearly notable as per WP:NBASIC, as being a director general of Industrial Training Fund (which had significant critical reception) and also satisfies organizational notability under WP:ORG and WP:NORG. The article now contains multiple independent, reliable sources per WP:GNG, which support the content they are cited for (the main reason for sending it to AFD by toadspike). If there were concerns about sourcing, a maintenance tag under WP:VERIFY would have been more appropriate than AfD. Still, it's valid to seek wider input. Cameremote (talk) I came from a remote place 23:33, 5 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Businesspeople, Politicians, and Nigeria. Toadspike [Talk] 21:42, 3 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Weak delete - Fails WP:GNG. Shoerack (talk) 15:36, 7 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Extraordinary Writ (talk) 02:36, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Bolu Okupe

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Fails WP:BIO. There is no information or sources stating of this person is either a model or activist. The article does not mention any fashion shows or brands that he participated in, nor does it mention any activism that he has done. He is only notable as a son of a former presidential aide which makes this WP:INVALIDBIO. This person is not notable. Sackkid (talk) 21:35, 24 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Sexuality and gender, and Nigeria. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 23:22, 24 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep - there is some coverage in reliable sources; how significant is debatable. Bearian (talk) 04:28, 26 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - Person A has a relationship with well-known person B, such as being a spouse or child, is not a reason for a standalone article on A (unless significant coverage can be found on A); relationships do not confer notability. The coverage that you are referring to all mirror that this is a gay man who happens to be the son of a former presidential aide. But there is no actual notability in that. I would say it would be more appropriate to merge this with Doyin Okupe but it is already there. Sackkid (talk) 06:35, 26 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:30, 31 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Delete -Fails GNG. Notability is not inherited. Shoerack (talk) 15:32, 7 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Toadspike [Talk] 11:56, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Matthew Blaise

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Fails WP:BIO. A lot of this stuff is trivial. The Time source does not feature him as the topic of discussion, The Pink News source simply mentioned that he was one of the attendees but does not state that he organized the protest, The Bloomberg source does not exist, The Out magazine source was written by them (Blaise); which leads that this article could have been created and edited by Matthew Blaise. "In 2020, they were a winner of The Future Awards Africa "Prize for Leading Conversations" but the source does not mention him winning any award of the sort. Also, the page receives very little traffic. If this person is an actual activist, there should be more focus on what they actually changed in the course of history and human rights. But once you take away the sentences with the meaningless sources, you are left with trivial information about where he is allegedly attending college. Sackkid (talk) 02:41, 24 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Sexuality and gender, and Nigeria. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 06:15, 24 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The Bloomberg source exists and link is still active. There are many articles and publications about them, and their nonprofit is quite active as well. Iseaseeshells (talk) 09:07, 25 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Respectfully, none of them say what he has actually done as an "activist", they are simply mirroring each other. I saw several pages that says he founded The Oasis Project but there are no articles that elaborate on it, say who it has helped, or what it has actually done. Many publications do not do their own research to see if the information given to them is credible. They are simply calling it "a Nigeria-based registered non-profit organization" but it is not registered with the Nigerian CAC or Global Giving, so it is not an establishment. So again, these publications are mirroring each other. Example: "I believe the sky is yellow and pink because you told me. You believe the sky is yellow and pink because I told you." Sackkid (talk) 22:57, 25 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I hear where you’re coming from, he is active with his nonprofit, Obodo, which is registered with CAC Iseaseeshells (talk) 17:02, 26 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

There would still need to be significant coverage from reliable sources in order to support the claim that Matthew Blaise is notable by Wikipedia standards. Also do you know Matthew Blaise personally? Sackkid (talk) 20:41, 26 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Toadspike [Talk] 21:22, 31 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - Fails WP:GNG. Shoerack (talk) 15:33, 7 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Toadspike [Talk] 12:02, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Not notable and fails GNG. Go4thProsper (talk) 23:39, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus‎. Star Mississippi 14:38, 13 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Kennedy Ekezie

AfDs for this article:

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This entrepreneur's article was deleted after an AfD discussion in April 2023 (and this 2020 AfD discussion and this 2018 MfD discussion). It was nominated on the basis of lacking reliable/independent sources, but was re-published later that year. I don't see any improvement in available reliable sources on the article subject (e.g., sources published since the last deletion). The article for his company, Kippa, also seems lacking in sourcing and possibly doesn't meet WP:NCORP, so I'm not sure a merge/redirect would be too useful in this situation. Best, Bridget (talk) 21:46, 14 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Businesspeople and Nigeria. Bridget (talk) 21:49, 14 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Philosophy, Finance, and Technology. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 04:27, 15 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:01, 21 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Ineligible for soft deletion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 23:36, 28 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - a made up in one day awards for up and coming but run of the mill business person. We are a charity. not LinkedIn. Protect against re-creation yet again. Bearian (talk) 17:05, 29 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I am wholly leaning keep on this. Queen's Young Leader Award and Future Awards Africa definitely meets ANYBIO. Best, Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia 13:06, 31 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: Ekezie is notable, he passes general Wikipedia guidelines, having received significant coverage from reliable sources and has won the Queen's Young Leader Award. He has also been recognized by Forbes 30 under 30 in the finance category. He is also the recipient of the The Future Awards Africa (2022), which is very notable in Africa. Send down the rain (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 01:02, 4 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, asilvering (talk) 05:55, 5 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, Notability has changed since I voted to delete in 2020. While Forbes 30 under 30 at this point is a junk measure of significance, we have profiles in the Independent Nigeria (2022?), Face2Face Africa (2022), Nigeria Tribune (2018), BBC (2019), and an article in The Nation about receipt of the Future Awards Africa (2022). That, + receipt of Queen's Young Leader Award satisfies me that GNG is met. I really don't think the high bar of ANYBIO is met by those two awards, but it doesn't need to be. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 11:33, 5 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Eddie891 and Shoerack: I have major concerns about the reliability of many of the cited sources. I know speaking in broad strokes about Nigerian news sources may sound problematic, but see WP:NEWSORGNIGERIA (on the RSP page) for recurring discussions on the media landscape.

For example, just out of the sources you cite, I think the Independent, the Tribune, and the Nation articles read very suspect. See the last paragraph of the Independent for example: "Kennedy Ekezie-Joseph’s story is not merely about achievements; it’s a testament to the power of dreams, perseverance, and embracing opportunities [...] Kennedy’s journey encapsulates the essence of a true visionary. He serves as an inspiration to young minds across Africa and the world, showing that with determination and unwavering belief, anyone can turn their dreams into reality."

A similar quote from the last paragraph of the Nation article: "In a world where technology continues to evolve and reshape industries, Kennedy Ekezie-Joseph stands as a shining example of the innovation Africa has to offer. His trailblazing spirit, coupled with his visionary leadership, has propelled him to the forefront of the technology sector. As he continues to inspire the next generation of innovators, Ekezie-Joseph’s impact will undoubtedly leave an indelible mark on the continent and beyond."

And the last paragraph of the Tribune article: "His achievements have already inspired countless young minds across the nation, offering a beacon of hope and proof that determination and dedication know no bounds [...] The story of this remarkable achievement will undoubtedly serve as an inspiration for many aspiring scholars and will be remembered as a turning point in the nation’s educational landscape." Bridget (talk) 22:39, 9 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
You raise a good point. I will strike my keep - Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 06:40, 10 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep - Per Eddie891 above. Shoerack (talk) 15:34, 7 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Does not pass WP:GNG given WP:NEWSORGNIGERIA. The one potentially notable point, his fintech company Kippa, closed down years ago. Agnieszka653 (talk) 12:31, 13 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

Nigeria proposed deletions

Nigeria miscellany for deletion

Rwanda

Rwanda proposed deletions

Senegal

Sierra Leone

Mohamed Bangura (boxer)

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Declined prod. Fails WP:SPORTSCRIT and WP:NOLY. LibStar (talk) 15:16, 13 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Boxing, Olympics, and Sierra Leone. Shellwood (talk) 15:19, 13 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Ivan Benjamin

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Declined prod. All the sources are databases/results except this one which is a small 1 line mention. No significant coverage to meet WP:SPORTSCRIT. LibStar (talk) 23:47, 29 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Olympics, Sport of athletics, and Sierra Leone. LibStar (talk) 23:47, 29 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
We're now at over 30 active Olympian AFDs, almost exclusively on historical athletes for countries for which it is ridiculously difficult to find coverage. This is excessive. Its worth noting that the "small mention" is a sentence describing him as a "household name" in Sierra Leone. Have any Sierra Leone newspapers from his era been checked? Because that's where the coverage would be, and if we have modern sources calling him a household name that strongly indicates it exists. BeanieFan11 (talk) 19:31, 30 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
While I have not checked for sources yet here and currently am neutral, why wasn't WP:SIGCOV included when the article was created? Let'srun (talk) 00:02, 31 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Because for over a decade, starting stubs on Olympic athletes for countries like Sierra Leone was praised and encouraged. BeanieFan11 (talk) 00:05, 31 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
By whom? Let'srun (talk) 11:41, 31 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
It was accepted consensus to write articles on stub Olympic competitors on the time, and many supported it, as you could see for example by the numerous barnstars e.g. Lugnuts received for his efforts, and that just about every Olympian taken to AFD had a clear keep consensus. BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:07, 31 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

These used to be speedy keeps until WP:NSPORTS2022. The Olympics deletion sorting didn't even exist until March 2022. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 17:24, 31 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
It was "praise and encouraged" in some quarters, but hardly universally. Mass-creation of articles directly from database entries has always been controversial.

The person who created most of these articles, at a rate of dozens each day, without ever following WP:MASSCREATE, was many times brought before ANI and other forums and had a substantial block log. Oh, and let's not forget their leaving message where they told us that they had intentionally put errors and copyvios in to their articles.

The creation of such stubs was only ever tolerated on the understanding that they would eventually be expanded in to proper articles that met the WP:GNG. It steadily became very clear that this was never going to be the case for many, perhaps most of them.

If @BeanieFan11 finds the number of AFDs open for these topics excessive, then we could always return to the more practical solutions proposed by BilledMammal, which have twice received consensus (WP:LUGSTUBS, WP:LUGSTUBS2). Would he prefer it if we collected another such package?

Because otherwise we're left with clearing these one by one through AFD. And whilst 30 in a week or three may seem excessive to some, this is still a fraction of the rate at which they were created. For example, on the day this article was created, 5 July 2017, 110 other articles were created by Lugnuts. So the articles we're going to spend a week+ deleting are basically what Lugnuts created in a single hour. FOARP (talk) 10:18, 2 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Well said Foarp. Lugnuts created 1000s of stubs maybe over 10,000. He had zero intention of building these stubs into proper articles. What he has left is a mess with potentially deliberately erroneous stubs. We should not be praising this. LibStar (talk) 10:24, 2 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
From the diff above Lugnuts claimed to have created over 90,000 articles. LibStar (talk) 10:33, 2 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Based on each 1000th article (which Lugnuts helpfully provided a listing of on his user page and which were his best articles), at least half of his ~93,000 articles need deleting/redirecting. FOARP (talk) 10:34, 2 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
There's a reason Olympic deletion sorting didn't exist until recently. No, half of the 93,000 articles do not need deleting. Do you know what'd happen if we actually had people looking for coverage in archives? I'm certain at least 85% of them would be kept, given my great success in finding SIGCOV for nearly every American, Swiss, Canadian, and Icelandic Olympian I've searched for coverage on. What's special about those four countries? They have the most-accessible newspaper archives. Almost every single one of these would be kept if we looked in newspaper archives. BeanieFan11 (talk) 14:59, 2 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
What's special about those four countries? Western, wealthy, highly-literate, long-stable democracies with centuries of independent media and well-funded sports programs...? JoelleJay (talk) 23:45, 2 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Its not limited to those, either. Costa Rica has a good newspaper archive, and I've found coverage for about 80% of the ones I've looked into. Hungary has a decent newspaper archive, and I've had similar success with them as well. There's an editor with access to Chinese newspapers, and in 95% of cases there's sigcov. Countries cover their top athletes, and when archives are searched, SIGCOV is found. Its not just the Western world that covers sports... BeanieFan11 (talk) 23:54, 2 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Here’s where I point out that your success rate isn’t anything like 85% Beannie. Of the last 500 AFDs you commented on, in 221 cases you left comments that did not contain a bolded !vote but which typically were essentially keep !votes (e.g., in this AFD "Newspapers.com seems to bring up a good deal of coverage in the Salem News, as well as this from The Plain Dealer"). Omitting the bolded !vote has the effect that the AFD stats tool won’t count them as !votes. The overwhelming majority of those 221 AFD closed as deleted/redirected.

I’m just going to AGF and assume you aren’t intentionally avoiding making bolded !votes where you don’t think you’re likely to succeed to avoid getting bad stats.

I still think you do useful work by finding sources in the cases where you find them. I’ve definitely !voted keep numerous times based on sources you found. But your success rate isn’t 85%. FOARP (talk) 07:14, 3 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I did not say I'm successful at 85% of AFDs. I said that when I look in newspaper archives for the mentioned countries, I find SIGCOV on Olympians that percentage of the time, and that if we looked in newspapers in other Olympian AFDs, 85% of those would be kept as well (I've written about athletes in over 100 countries and researched thousands of others – I have a rough idea of what sort of subjects are likely to have received coverage). I don't always find enough to convince myself that a subject is notable, but I may still have found something, hence the point in my commenting at discussions. Is there a rule now that one is only allowed to contribute to AFD if all their comments are keep/delete? BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:39, 3 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete fails WP:NSPORT due to lack of IRS SIGCOV. This mass-created article has existed for 8 years without the IRS SIGCOV having been located by anyone - there has been plenty of time and the WP:BURDEN is on those wishing to keep this article to add it. Protests that Sierra Leonese newspapers must necessarily have given this guy IRS SIGCOV run in to the issue that Sierra Leonese literacy rates at the time were low (~19% in 1980, ~26% in 1990) meaning that the audience for such coverage (and the amount of coverage being produced) would be less than the raw figure for the population of Sierra Leone might suggest. Additionally, Sierra Leone was a single-party dictatorship until 1991 and wracked by civil war for 11 years after that, meaning that coverage would likely either not be from IRS sources or focused elsewhere. Moreover this person apparently left Sierra Leone in 1988-90 and so wouldn't have been present to be covered. FOARP (talk) 10:29, 2 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
- He's still recognized as a "household name" many years after his career and after he apparently moved away decades ago. Where would African sources get that information from if he was so obscure and never covered, and what are the odds that someone who moved away decades ago yet is still remembered as a "household name" wouldn't have received coverage? If Sierra Leone gave any coverage to athletes at all in the 1980s, which is a common sense assumption, it'd be on people such as him (and literacy rates are irrelevant – newspapers, radio, etc. still existed). BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:11, 2 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  "He's still recognized as a "household name" many years after his career" - He's not. Or at least our source for him being so is a list of 11 names in some flap-copy about how Sierra Leone was on the "cusp of a major breakthrough at global significance". It's morale-boosting I'm sure, but their source for that doesn't need anyone to reach for the idea that there exists an extensive archive of coverage of these people. FOARP (talk) 19:10, 2 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  Felix Sandy, Estella Meheux, Abdul Mansaray, Sebleh Smith, the Late Dick Tucker, Apollo Suma Keita, Ivan Benjamin, William Akabi Davis, Columba Blango, Abu Iscandri, Paul Parkinson, Prince Duwai, David Sawyer Modupe Jonah and Walter During, to name but a few out of a slew of great household names that graced the track and entertained Sierra Leoneans for years – that says he's a household name, and indicates he was one of the top 15 most prominent athletes in Sierra Leone in the 1980s. It is most certainly not unreasonable to believe that the top 15 athletes in a nation would receive coverage. How do you think this modern magazine knows he was a household name? Have you ever seen an old sports figure recognized in modern times as a household name, checked in archives, and found they did not ever have coverage? Cause I've never found it to be the case that the most prominent athletes in a nation were never covered; exactly the opposite in fact – the greatest athletes in every country receive coverage. BeanieFan11 (talk) 19:20, 2 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  "Cause I've never found it to be the case that the most prominent athletes in a nation were never covered" - Except in as much as it's impossible to prove a negative, you can only reach this by ignoring all the "best athlete" articles that have been deleted/redirected due to lack of SIGCOV being found either during the years the articles were in mainspace on Wikipedia, or during the weeks that the AFD was open. FOARP (talk) 08:13, 3 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  The only times a "best athlete" was deleted was when newspaper archives were never searched. That e.g. three Americans do a quick Google search on a 1980s Nigerien runner and come up empty does not in any way confirm the lack of coverage on said athlete. BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:42, 3 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  As I have iterated many times, to have an article, there must be coverage. If coverage is found at some point, then is the time to make the article. Geschichte (talk) 07:50, 4 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  Additionally, it is ignoring the years - often decades - when the article was live, often tagged for improvement, but not actually being improved by anyone. But whilst it was live, it became part of the gnoming burden of the encyclopaedia as a whole, requiring maintenance work from volunteer editors.
  
  I'd also highlight this reverted addition by an IP editor to this article: "After graduating from the medical school of Charles University in Prague, he works as a medical doctor in Cyprus".
  
  See, this is likely an addition by someone who actually knows the subject, maybe even the subject themselves. And if it's true, the subject is just an ordinary person going about their ordinary life nowadays, far away from Sierra Leone, not a "legend", not a "great household name" or whatever. But some people feel the need to hype every single Olympian article in this way. FOARP (talk) 10:17, 4 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  Although I emphasize with you that it's sometimes difficult to come to terms with, there is no WP:TIMELIMIT on Wikipedia. It could take a minute, a century, or a millennium before certain articles are improved, but that's never an adequate reason for deletion. --Habst (talk) 13:46, 4 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  Alternatively, in an equally-(in)valid essay, Wikipedia:There is a deadline and indeed Wikipedia:The deadline is now. The minimal possibility that there might be SIGCOV somewhere is not a keep rationale within our PAGs. Failing articles can be nominated for deletion at any time. FOARP (talk) 17:51, 4 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  Both of those essays were created years after WP:TIMELIMIT, presumably in response to it. I would agree in cases of minimal possibility, but not maximal possibility like with this subject described as a "major international talent". --Habst (talk) 20:55, 4 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  "FOARP is a major international talent" - There: can I have my article now please? FOARP (talk) 07:30, 5 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  You know there's a big difference between describing yourself as talented versus an Olympian being described decades after his career as a household name and major international talent... BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:17, 5 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  We already decided, in a very high-profile discussion in which many people participated and which you had every chance to make this argument, that just having been an Olympian does not make you notable. I am therefore as notable as this guy: the source for him being "a household name and major international talent" is a likely WP:SPS. FOARP (talk) 22:35, 5 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  Yes, just being an Olympian does not equal notability in itself. However, when modern sources describe people as "household names" from the offline era, that should be considered when assessing one's notability, especially when no sources from the time have been searched (are you a 1980s Olympian remembered in modern times as a household name?). NSPORT2022 never would have passed if it was known that quality articles on all-time great African athletes, whom modern sources identify as extremely accomplished and household names, would be deleted. And how do you think the magazine figured out he was a household name? BeanieFan11 (talk) 22:40, 5 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  They probably just looked at the Sierra Leone Olympian cat on Wiki and decided that everyone there was some kind of legend when in all likelihood most Sierra Leonese don’t know who this is. FOARP (talk) 06:20, 6 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  Any evidence for that? BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:40, 6 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  The evidence is the complete lack of anyone saying anything about him except in a single blog with a long list of the names of supposed "legends". If these were truly household names (the way, say, Cram, Coe, and Ovett were in my own country when I was a kid) you would see continued coverage in IRS now.
  
  And let's note that your "if you were the best in your country at a particular Olympic sport then you are automatically notable" is just a variant of the same "all Olympians are notable" argument that WP:NSPORTS2022 rejected. All Olympians tend to be the best athletes in their home country in at least one category.
  
  What matters is whether that means they are notable per se, and often they are not because people in their home country don't care about that sport. FOARP (talk) 07:41, 9 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  Describing "Africa's first ever and only sports magazine covering all sports disciplines" (which also runs a TV station and radio station) as a "blog" is poor taste. I'm not saying all Olympians are notable. I'm saying we should not delete all-time greats in major sports (as recognized by reliable sources – Africa's only continental sports magazine is not a "blog") without checking any relevant sources. There's no requirement of continued coverage – a substantial majority of my ~1,500 articles written do not get regularly covered decades after their careers, but they're still notable. And asserting that people in Sierra Leone "don't care" about athletics is completely untrue. In fact, it is very popular there. BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:58, 9 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Sierra Leone at the 1984 Summer Olympics. No evidence of the requisite IRS SIGCOV. I am not convinced his mention in a list of 11 "household names" within a single 200-word sentence on what appears to be a blog is an indication that sufficient coverage exists. JoelleJay (talk) 23:41, 2 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Needs input from other editors
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 09:33, 6 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Sierra Leone at the 1984 Summer Olympics: Subject lacks the needed WP:SIGCOV from multiple reliable, independent sources to meet the WP:SPORTSCRIT. A mere mention of "greatness" in a blog does not constitute significant coverage, and I can't find anything better here. Let'srun (talk) 11:24, 7 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Somalia

Proposed deletions

South Africa

Riaan Manser

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Promotional article about a person with one source that reports on the WP:SINGLEEVENT. The rest is unsourced puffery. No longstanding WP:SIGCOV. ZimZalaBim ^talk 03:52, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Travel and tourism, Cycling, and South Africa. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 05:47, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

José Ilidio Nascimento

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Non-notable lawyer that doesn't have WP:SIGCOV to meet WP:GNG ZimZalaBim ^talk 03:55, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Law, and South Africa. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 05:46, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete only a single source in the article and WP:BEFORE did not yield anything to meet threshold for notability. Patre23 (talk) 07:31, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

GetSmarter

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It doesn't look like there's really any sigcov for GetSmarter outside of its acquisition by 2U, it should probably redirect to its parent company 2U (company). BuySomeApples (talk) 18:16, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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delete no significant coverage outside ROTM, therefore it should be deleted per WP:NORG. --hroest 20:45, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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Rosebank railway station

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A before search found just mentions of name. Cos ^{(X + Z)} 18:13, 9 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Stations, Transportation, and South Africa. Cos ^{(X + Z)} 18:13, 9 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

redirect to Southern_Line_(Cape_Town)#Route as typical fate of less notable transit stations. Mangoe (talk) 20:53, 9 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Past Sharks junior squads

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Almost all of the players in this list are not notable. Louis (talk) (contribs) 15:01, 9 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Lists of people, Rugby union, and South Africa. Shellwood (talk) 15:07, 9 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

This is false. They are notable in so far as they record who played for a major club side, some of which end up playing for other teams. If that information is not recorded then it is lost, making it impossible to track player development and also maintain the history of a significant rugby club. For me this is like removing films from a director's filmography because they are not critically acclaimed. Whybeetoo (talk) 18:30, 9 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Per WP:RU/N they are not notable. "Youth players are not notable unless they satisfy one of the statements above, or if they can be shown to meet the wider requirements of WP:GNG." See Wikipedia:WikiProject Rugby union/Notability#Biographies. Louis (talk) (contribs) 20:10, 9 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

But these are not Biographies? And so that section doesnt apply. This is a page that allows the tracking of player development over an extended period, allowing a reader to understand the health of a junior system. Its not a list of biographies. Secondly these are not youth players, these are professionally contracted rugby players, all above the age of 18. Whybeetoo (talk) 21:00, 9 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Also, WP:SIGCOV. A google search of "Sharks Junior Squad" reveals minimal results with all those relating to this topic being from primary sources. A new catogary would be better suited for this ie: Category:Sharks (rugby union) junior players (or similar) for any players that pass GNG of WP:RU/N Louis (talk) (contribs) 22:07, 9 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

If you google the component teams of the Junior Squad you get substantial mentions from multiple sources. This includes multiple independently sourced press coverage. Sharks u21, u20, u19 etc. The Junior Squad is just a catch all term for players contracted but eligible for these teams. The mentions are not trivial or in passing, they are articles specifically written about these teams and often these players. Whybeetoo (talk) 22:43, 9 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

South Africa Proposed deletions

Also check the list at WP:PRODSUM

Sudan

Al-Taka SC

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It this a notable location? Right now this is unreferenced (WP:V failure, single EL to Facebook...). On pl wiki some editors tried to create an entry with some refs, but there is confusion whether they talk about the same entity, or different... _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:14, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 05:42, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I at least wanted to point out that this article is about a football club, not a "location". (I have no opinion on the article or its current lack of sourcing.) WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 05:45, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Giant Snowman 18:31, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:33, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Tanzania

Tanzania proposed deletions

Tanzania Police Academy

Tunisia

Uganda

Rahmah Pinky

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No evidence of satisfying the notability guidelines. The references are either dead links or reports of minor details such as changing the company that manages her work, not substantial coverage of her. Searching for better sources was a total failure; it turned up this Wikipedia article, her Facebook account, a site offering downloads of her music, etc, no reliable independent sources. (PROD contested with no reason given. ) JBW (talk) 11:02, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete per nom. No RS for notability.Littenberg (talk) 00:11, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. ✗plicit 14:47, 13 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

2018 Kiryandongo bus accident

AfDs for this article:

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Causing deaths and being reported in the news do not confer notability, and high-casualty bus crashes are common. Fails WP:EVENT. Unable to find sustained significant coverage. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 🛸 01:42, 4 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Events, Transportation, and Uganda. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 🛸 01:42, 4 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Ineligible for soft deletion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 03:34, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: WP:NOTNEWS. Point 4 of WP:EVENTCRITERIA - Routine kinds of news events (including most .. accidents ..) – whether or not tragic or widely reported at the time – are usually not notable. No WP:SUSTAINED coverage. XYZ1233212 (talk) 15:21, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. No evidence of sustained coverage beyond a short mourning period. ToadetteEdit (talk) 14:20, 13 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

Zimbabwe

Zimbabwe proposed deletions

Nyabira (via WP:PROD on 12 May 2025)

[1] Omigbodun, Ao (July 2012). "The membership certification of the west african college of surgeons and its relevance to the needs of the west african sub-region". Journal of the West African College of Surgeons. 2 (3): 83–87. ISSN 2276-6944.

[1]